# 820 Partner Visa Additional Information Request



## Barron91 (Nov 6, 2016)

Hi,

So ... I lodged my partner visa on 11th November 2016. My partner and I have been de facto since 21st December 2014 and lived together for 11 months now.

I have received an email from DIBP asking for additional information to support my visa. I was very thorough with my evidence and feel I created an in-depth timeline of our relationship progress. It started long-distance and now ended up with us living together.

The email contains this statement which is what I'm finding difficulty with 
"Provide further evidence of length of de facto relationship (12 months prior to application on 19/11/2016)
To assist in deciding your application the decision maker must have regard to all of the circumstances of your relationship with your partner including: the financial aspects of the relationship, the nature of the household, the social aspects of the relationship and the nature of your commitment to each other. The information provided should establish that the relationship for the period requested is at a de facto level."

It then contains the sub-headings below and brief examples of evidence. Exact guidance from visa which was followed.

Financial aspects
Social aspects
Nature of household

etc ... but I feel I have included 95% of the things that are applicable in that list.

At the very end it asks for two very specific pieces of evidence. My sponsor's passport and a recent passport photo of my sponsor. That's not a problem, I uploaded them and they are ready.

Here's my confusion and thank you for sticking with this if you're still reading. *Is it asking me for more evidence of our relationship* OR *is it only asking for the two specified pieces of evidence?*

Is states that if I confirm the upload of evidence then it will go through to final processing and a decision will be made. I don't want to submit and leave myself short nor do I want to spend a lot of time thinking and gathering minor pieces of evidence for no reason.

An e-mail has been sent to DIBP to gain clarity but any advice for people here is appreciated.

Thank you


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## Jeremy Hooper (Jul 10, 2014)

The case officer is asking for more evidence of your relationship. Note that you have to satisfy the case officer that you have been in a de facto relationship for at least 12 months. This does not necessarily mean that you have lived together for 12 months. The definition of de facto relationship is set out in Section 5CB of the Migration Act.


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## Barron91 (Nov 6, 2016)

Thank you for some advice. I'm slightly worried by this as I have included a decent time timeline of our relationships. Many holidays together, bank statements, travelling to Australia, meeting my partner's family in Australia and supporting statements from her Australian family as well as supporting statements from UK friends who have witnessed the relationship shop develop. The only two things I can think of is sharing our joint savings account balance (the account itself has already been uploaded) and possibly asking the gym owner to write us a short membership contract to confirm we both attend the same gym together. 

Any other suggestions?


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## Skybluebrewer (Jan 15, 2016)

Did you ever travel together? Or do activities in town? For example, last year for my birthday, my husband took me to to see Cats and we stayed the night at the Crown hotel. Not really traveling as we stayed in town but it was a birthday gift that we can find evidence of in his email with receipts. Check your email for receipts for payments on things you may have done together. Even proof of gifts bought for each other for birthdays/special occasions. You can back up those dates with photo evidence.


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## Barron91 (Nov 6, 2016)

Skybluebrewer said:


> Did you ever travel together? Or do activities in town? For example, last year for my birthday, my husband took me to to see Cats and we stayed the night at the Crown hotel. Not really traveling as we stayed in town but it was a birthday gift that we can find evidence of in his email with receipts. Check your email for receipts for payments on things you may have done together. Even proof of gifts bought for each other for birthdays/special occasions. You can back up those dates with photo evidence.


We have been on 5 holiday breaks together since been together and those were all included in my submission. Flight details, payments and photos to back up. That's why I'm a little confused as to what area they are wanting for info. I've provide this info in regards to travelling together.


Mallorca summer 2015 
Amsterdam New Years 2015/16
Australia Spring 2016
Europe tour - Belgium, Denmark and Poland Autumn 2016
Budapest New Years 2016/17
Iceland this month


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

My interpretation of what they said is that the evidence you have provided is not of a de facto relationship level for the 12 months prior to application being submitted.

It may be worth speaking with a registered migration agent to review all of your evidence.


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## Barron91 (Nov 6, 2016)

Mish said:


> My interpretation of what they said is that the evidence you have provided is not of a de facto relationship level for the 12 months prior to application being submitted.
> 
> It may be worth speaking with a registered migration agent to review all of your evidence.


Yet we have things dated from the beginning of the relationship in 2014 progressing through to present. I can't really afford to spend the large fees a migration agent would charge unless some offer a lower fee to review a part-processed application.


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

Barron91 said:


> Yet we have things dated from the beginning of the relationship in 2014 progressing through to present. I can't really afford to spend the large fees a migration agent would charge unless some offer a lower fee to review a part-processed application.


Some offer a review service I thought around $900 but don't quote me on that. It is better to pay a bit now than have to go through an appeal process.

There is a difference between evidence and de facto evidence. They are looking at the de facto evidence and in their opinion the evidence you have provided does not constitute a de facto relationship for the 12 months prior to lodging the application.


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## Mania (Sep 7, 2016)

Barron91 said:


> Yet we have things dated from the beginning of the relationship in 2014 progressing through to present. I can't really afford to spend the large fees a migration agent would charge unless some offer a lower fee to review a part-processed application.


Much cheaper then having to pay 7k again due to a poorly prepared application...


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## Barron91 (Nov 6, 2016)

Mania said:


> Much cheaper then having to pay 7k again due to a poorly prepared application...


A tad harsh to brand my application as "poorly prepared" when you don't know the full details.

I agree that re-applying if refused would be more costly but I don't feel like we have missed anything major. I'm looking for advice as to what else I could include and what additional they could potentially they are looking for.


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## summersky (Feb 12, 2017)

I agree with Mish, I think they _seem_ like doubting the 12 months de facto period (we might never know what made them doubt this since you believed that you have supplied enough evidence).

The safest bet would be talking to a migration agent, the damage could be irreversible (besides money, time, and your mental health) when things go wrong with visa. Now it's your chance to talk to migration agent properly to review your evidence; you might miss a thing or two, which you can fix now.


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

In order for us to suggest to you what else you could include you will need to list everything that you have submitted (including what dates it is for), without that we would just be giving you ideas that you may have already submitted.

Also have you registered the relationship with BDM? 

Another thing that would be good to know is when you lodged the application what date did you say that the de facto relationship commenced?


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## Barron91 (Nov 6, 2016)

summersky said:


> I agree with Mish, I think they _seem_ like doubting the 12 months de facto period (we might never know what made them doubt this since you believed that you have supplied enough evidence).
> 
> The safest bet would be talking to a migration agent, the damage could be irreversible (besides money, time, and your mental health) when things go wrong with visa. Now it's your chance to talk to migration agent properly to review your evidence; you might miss a thing or two, which you can fix now.


Any ideas how much a migration agent would cost to assist at this stage?


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## Barron91 (Nov 6, 2016)

Mish said:


> In order for us to suggest to you what else you could include you will need to list everything that you have submitted (including what dates it is for), without that we would just be giving you ideas that you may have already submitted.
> 
> Also have you registered the relationship with BDM?
> 
> Another thing that would be good to know is when you lodged the application what date did you say that the de facto relationship commenced?


The application was lodged on 19th Nov 2016. The date we stated our relationship became de facto was 21st Dec 2014. That was the date we became a couple.

Would you like to take a look at my list of evidence? I can generate my checklist if you will and go from there.

We haven't registered our relationship. We are in the U.K. and I wasn't aware that this was possible.

On a side note, the gym that we both attend together has agreed to provide a membership letter for us. What should be included?


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

You can post the list of evidence in this thread if you want.

So both of you are living in the UK? I assume you have applied for the 309 and not the 820 then as the title of the thread indicates.

They will need to say how long you have both been members of the gym and the address that they have for you and of course both of your names.


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## Mania (Sep 7, 2016)

Barron91 said:


> A tad harsh to brand my application as "poorly prepared" when you don't know the full details.
> 
> I agree that re-applying if refused would be more costly but I don't feel like we have missed anything major. I'm looking for advice as to what else I could include and what additional they could potentially they are looking for.


Sorry I was a bit blunt, not my intention.

When I say a poorly prepared application I mean one that requires further information to be considered complete, as in this instance.

The issue you have is you don't believe you missed anything major, but it appears that the person assessing it has decided that you are. As such a look over your information by a migration agent should be able to identify what further items you need to add.

In relation to a cost, it would depend on how much work is required, an initial consult will be around the $200 mark - there's a few agents on here, sending the them a PM to ask for an approximate cost will cost you nothing.

I know the question was aimed at Mish - but if you have a checklist of what you have provided so far I'm sure there's a few people here that can give you fairly helpful pointers.

Having said that - I can't stress how important it is that you get proper advice, preferably professional.


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## Barron91 (Nov 6, 2016)

Mish said:


> You can post the list of evidence in this thread if you want.
> 
> So both of you are living in the UK? I assume you have applied for the 309 and not the 820 then as the title of the thread indicates.
> 
> They will need to say how long you have both been members of the gym and the address that they have for you and of course both of your names.


Now I feel completely idiotic. Yes we have applied for the 309 but the visa codes are all bundled into one and I thought it was 820 and moving into a 801 rather than 309 into 100. I got it the wrong way around 

In regards the gym membership, that is find. He will be able to include that information.


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## Barron91 (Nov 6, 2016)

Here is the list of my evidence. I have typed it from my IMMI account.

Let me know if anything glaringly obvious is missing.

Supporting statements

Form 888 x 2 from Australian citizens (parent and friend)
Written supporting statement x 3 (2 x my friends and 1 x GF's friend)

-	Bank statements of money transfers for holidays (Mallorca, Amsterdam, Australia)
-	Mallorca holiday 2015
-	Amsterdam payments 2015/2016
-	Payment of flights to Australia (Dec 2015 - travelled March 2016)
-	Train ticket payments from March 2015 travelling to see GF in Manchester
-	Additional train tickets from March 2016 to showing length of travelling commitment. 
-	Scanned bank statements showing sharing of finances. Buying shopping and little things like that. 
-	Scanned copies of train tickets to Manchester 1xA4 sheet. *Is it worth including more tickets? I have a huge pile of them with a range of dates.*
-	Photo timeline with captions showing travel to various places together. Evidence of these months and things we did. Oct 2014, Dec 2014 including facebook relationship status update, Jan 2015 Edinburgh, Feb 2015 Bamburgh Castle, April 2015 Easter, June 2015 Bike ride, July 2015 attending my Uni graduation, July 2015 Mallorca holiday, Oct 2015 John Rylands Library and Musuem in Manchester, Dec 2015 building snowmen together, Dec 2015 Christmas markets in Manchester, Dec 2015 photo of us going to dinner for anniversary (taken from facebook), Dec 2015 GF spending Christmas with me and family, Jan 2016 Amsterdam new year, March 2016 GF's facebook status showing her message saying goodbye to Manchester to move in with me, March 2016 Featherdale Zoo Australia, March 2016 camping at Patonga with GF's family, June 2015 attending christening together, June 2016 photo of Sunday lunch we cooked together, Aug 2016 Creamfields music festival, Sept 2016 cousins wedding together, Sept 2016 picking conkers from trees, October 2016 Belgium/Denmark/Poland photos, Oct 2016 carving pumpkins, Nov 2016 celebrating GF's birthday. Application submitted so no further photos.

Copy of joint bank account letter

Nature of household - letter from parents explaining conditions of rent and household jobs etc (we live in a spare room in my family home as my parents agreed to help us save)

Statement from GF explaining relationship, how we met, long-distance relationship, how we supported each other etc

Statement from myself explaining relationship (as above) but own version.

Identification documents (driving license, passport, recent passport etc)

I have found a load of letters, cards and notes that were sent when we were long-distance with dates on them as well as boarding passes for Amsterdam and Australia. I have a ton of train tickets that I could upload to show the number of times travelled to visit each other when long-distance too. As well as the gym membership letter, joint bank account balance and the huge pile of train tickets.


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## Mania (Sep 7, 2016)

I apologise if you covered this on the first page and I've forgotten - I'm using a mobile phone so find it hard to view between different pages.

Based on what I can see there you are very light on supporting evidence as to being defacto as opposed to dating.

What date did you tell them your defacto relationship commenced?

Specifically what information have you provided for the period of 9/11/2015 until xx/03/2016.

Are these dates correct?
Date moved in together xx/03/2016
Date application submitted 19/11/2916

How have you differentiated between dating and defacto? 
Why were you living apart (why did you not move in earlier?) it appears she was living in Manchester, where were you located?

Do you both have mail going to the same property within this time frame?
When did you open the joint account?
Are there any official government documents in existence with both your names on it?
Insurance policy for the car?
Your local GP's registration form with your partner listed as a next of kin?
Have you done wills?
Any other clubs you have both registerd too?
I would put all the train tickets for the period 1 year before application into a PDF and submit the lot.
Phone/Skype/WhatsApp etc records to show the communication during a period apart.


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## Barron91 (Nov 6, 2016)

Mania said:


> I apologise if you covered this on the first page and I've forgotten - I'm using a mobile phone so find it hard to view between different pages.
> 
> Based on what I can see there you are very light on supporting evidence as to being defacto as opposed to dating.
> 
> ...


We agreed our de facto relationship started on the 21st Dec 2014 as we were committed to each other and nobody else.

My partner lived in London to begin but had already accepted a job with RBS working in Manchester. I lived in Durham (north-east England) and was study to become a teacher. I was offered work as a primary teacher therefore remained in Durham while she lived in Manchester. We both knew that long-distance was difficult for us both. Work was hard to come by in Durham so she did not want to leave paid employment and risk going a length of time without any income. Eventually, she left her job before we went to Australia as we wanted to be together and then decided to look for work in Durham.

We opened our joint account in September 2016 so its still rather new and not containing many funds.

We both have mail that gets delivered to our address. Not joint addressed mail but we could use that as proof of living together, right?

The train tickets stopped from March 2016 when she moved to Durham but I should have plenty before that time.

I've just uploaded old letters from when we first started going out when we were long-distance but I will be able to upload WhatsApp messages (old and recent) to show the continuation of our relationship.

We don't have joint insurance and we only attend the gym together. The gym letter is in the process of bein acquired 

We have not done wills as we are not married and I never thought about next of kin either

Thank you too! Your insight has given me several additional pieces of evidence that I can upload!


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## Mania (Sep 7, 2016)

When did you meet? The date of defacto also appears to be very close to the day you met - is this correct?

I believe, take this with a pinch of salt, as I am by no means qualified, that the CO will be looking at the period 12 to 8 months prior to you having lodged your application. You will need to satisfy them for your reasons of not having moved in together, how you were supporting each other, maintaining contact, etc.. 

Now more then ever I would suggest you speak to a migration agent, please don't take this wrong but I had a lot more evidence then it appears you did, applied with a migration agent and they still wanted further information.

The train tickets from November 2015 to march 2016 are the more critical ones. After March 16 you can prove you were living together.

On an unrelated note - Durhams only a short hop north from my home town .


Edit - I didn't answer the mail question - yes, joint mail is great but a large bulk of individual mail, preferably dated with name and address, give them a good cross section of this mail, the more variation the better.


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## Barron91 (Nov 6, 2016)

Mania said:


> When did you meet? The date of defacto also appears to be very close to the day you met - is this correct?
> 
> I believe, take this with a pinch of salt, as I am by no means qualified, that the CO will be looking at the period 12 to 8 months prior to you having lodged your application. You will need to satisfy them for your reasons of not having moved in together, how you were supporting each other, maintaining contact, etc..
> 
> ...


We originally met in Ibiza in May 2014 but then met up again in October 2014 and I came to London December 2014. We met up several times and became committed on 21st December 2014. We have explained why we did not move in together due to work commitments and both starting new jobs. Those details were in our own supporting letters.

Here is a list of additional evidence that I can provide relatively easily. Please let me know if you think this would give them enough breadth and depth.


1st and 2nd year anniversary cards 
letters from partner during early stages of relationship 
various love notes left to each other
events that we were both invited to - christenings/parties
boarding passes from most recent holiday - Oct 2016
Mail - from banks, work contracts, junk mail
train tickets from the duration of relationship
birthday cards
whatsapp chat log from 2015 to present 

With regards to the chat log, do I delete private content or leave it? 
There is two years worth of stuff there and it would take forever.


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

I strongly suggest a migration agent. The evidence that you have provided is weak in the financial component and living together that I can see.

You need letters addressed at the same address but you say the accounts only show groceries. Surely you buy more things than that you can show ie. movies/nights out, mobile phone bill etc. Did you have joint travel insurance on your holidays? If so you can provide that, that will help.

I know that you don't need to live together in order to be de facto but a migration agent is the best to advise on what kind of evidence you need to satisfy them when you are not living together that you are in a de facto relationship.

Based on your first post, they appear to be considering rejection as they don't believe you were de facto for 12 months prior to the application. Therefore, a migration agent is very important so that you can change their mind. You need to provide additional evidence but it needs to be good quality evidence to change their mind.


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## Barron91 (Nov 6, 2016)

Mish said:


> I strongly suggest a migration agent. The evidence that you have provided is weak in the financial component and living together that I can see.
> 
> You need letters addressed at the same address but you say the accounts only show groceries. Surely you buy more things than that you can show ie. movies/nights out, mobile phone bill etc. Did you have joint travel insurance on your holidays? If so you can provide that, that will help.
> 
> ...


It's difficult to provide anything financially as we don't rent or own our own home. We rent room in my parents home and I have supplied to bank transfers for that, I have supplied financial evidence of paying of fuel and groceries. We both have a cinema card and regularly go to the cinema so I'll upload the email receipts for those.

I'll look into the joint travel insurance as my partner organises most of our travel.

Reflecting now, I think maybe I focused on too many photos and not enough legal documentation to back it up with.

Legal stuff I can get easily is as follows 

joint bank account with savings in
joint gym membership
mail to the same address within the 12 month period

Additional things - trips to cinema and large number of train tickets while long-distance


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

Photos are not as important for a low risk country as they are for a high risk country (some high risk countries are very family oriented so they expect these kind of things). All the evidence provide helps paint the picture so there is no one piece of evidence that is the golden picture.

The joint account is that just for savings or is it being used? If it is just for savings it will not be of much use, only to show you are saving for the future. DIBP like to see accounts that are being used regularly.

Do either of you have a credit card where the other is an additional credit card holder? Do you have a joint paypal account? Joint ebay account?

Having mail together over the 12 months will be better than within the 12 months as that is something that they are looking at.

Have you uploading individual statements highlighting the transactions that are in regards to the relationship ie. travel, food, entertainment, rent to your parents etc.

The joint travel insurance would have been something that has already been taken out for the previous trips. I am guessing the travel insurance policies will be in your email unless you have deleted the emails. Your travel is the accommodation in both of your names when you travel?

Yes the recent evidence will help but they appear to be focused on the 12 months prior to lodging of the application.

Does the cinema have an online account that shows what movies you have gone to? If so screen shot them all (or print to PDF if that works) for both of your accounts showing that you have both been to the same movies.


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## Barron91 (Nov 6, 2016)

Mish said:


> Photos are not as important for a low risk country as they are for a high risk country (some high risk countries are very family oriented so they expect these kind of things). All the evidence provide helps paint the picture so there is no one piece of evidence that is the golden picture.
> 
> The joint account is that just for savings or is it being used? If it is just for savings it will not be of much use, only to show you are saving for the future. DIBP like to see accounts that are being used regularly.
> 
> ...


Joint account is savings only and doesn't get touched. I have uploaded the rents transactions from my bank statement but my partner pays cash as that's how she budgets her money. I have highlighted the extend of travel that we did in order to maintain our relationship while long distance (I will be uploaded loads of trains tickets over 15-16 months we were long distance. Won't our what's app chat long, anniversary cards and letters go along way to prove de facto status too?

We have uploaded bank statements that highlights groceries and fuel expenses. My partner has emails to confirm the joint travel insurance so that will be uploaded, unsure about joint accommodation but will enquire about that. The cinema sends us an email receipt to confirm the movie so we can upload those even to the extent of seats that are sitting together, time, dates etc. We should be able to find Mail that backs up living together but also her offer of work when she lived in Manchester. Surely that proves that she worked in Manchester for a length of time and we also have a letter and P45 that confirms that she left her job right before our holiday to Australia in 2016 and then she moved in with me.

Do you think that is painting a better picture now and has filled on some of the gaps that were present?

P.S off to Iceland for 6 days now so I'm unlikely to be very active


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## Barron91 (Nov 6, 2016)

Mish said:


> Photos are not as important for a low risk country as they are for a high risk country (some high risk countries are very family oriented so they expect these kind of things). All the evidence provide helps paint the picture so there is no one piece of evidence that is the golden picture.
> 
> The joint account is that just for savings or is it being used? If it is just for savings it will not be of much use, only to show you are saving for the future. DIBP like to see accounts that are being used regularly.
> 
> ...


Joint account is savings only and doesn't get touched. I have uploaded the rents transactions from my bank statement but my partner pays cash as that's how she budgets her money. I have highlighted the extend of travel that we did in order to maintain our relationship while long distance (I will be uploaded loads of trains tickets over 15-16 months we were long distance. Won't our what's app chat long, anniversary cards and letters go along way to prove de facto status too?

We have uploaded bank statements that highlights groceries and fuel expenses. My partner has emails to confirm the joint travel insurance so that will be uploaded, unsure about joint accommodation but will enquire about that. The cinema sends us an email receipt to confirm the movie so we can upload those even to the extent of seats that are sitting together, time, dates etc. We should be able to find Mail that backs up living together but also her offer of work when she lived in Manchester. Surely that proves that she worked in Manchester for a length of time and we also have a letter and P45 that confirms that she left her job right before our holiday to Australia in 2016 and then she moved in with me.

Do you think that is painting a better picture now and has filled on some of the gaps that were present?

P.S off to Iceland for 6 days now so I'm unlikely to be very active


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## Mania (Sep 7, 2016)

Barron91 said:


> Joint account is savings only and doesn't get touched. I have uploaded the rents transactions from my bank statement but my partner pays cash as that's how she budgets her money. I have highlighted the extend of travel that we did in order to maintain our relationship while long distance (I will be uploaded loads of trains tickets over 15-16 months we were long distance. Won't our what's app chat long, anniversary cards and letters go along way to prove de facto status too?
> 
> We have uploaded bank statements that highlights groceries and fuel expenses. My partner has emails to confirm the joint travel insurance so that will be uploaded, unsure about joint accommodation but will enquire about that. The cinema sends us an email receipt to confirm the movie so we can upload those even to the extent of seats that are sitting together, time, dates etc. We should be able to find Mail that backs up living together but also her offer of work when she lived in Manchester. Surely that proves that she worked in Manchester for a length of time and we also have a letter and P45 that confirms that she left her job right before our holiday to Australia in 2016 and then she moved in with me.
> 
> ...


You seem to be focusing on info from the beginning of the relationship. They want more info from the 12 months prior to applying.

Your evidence still appears very weak.


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

Barron91 said:


> Joint account is savings only and doesn't get touched. I have uploaded the rents transactions from my bank statement but my partner pays cash as that's how she budgets her money. I have highlighted the extend of travel that we did in order to maintain our relationship while long distance (I will be uploaded loads of trains tickets over 15-16 months we were long distance. Won't our what's app chat long, anniversary cards and letters go along way to prove de facto status too?
> 
> We have uploaded bank statements that highlights groceries and fuel expenses. My partner has emails to confirm the joint travel insurance so that will be uploaded, unsure about joint accommodation but will enquire about that. The cinema sends us an email receipt to confirm the movie so we can upload those even to the extent of seats that are sitting together, time, dates etc. We should be able to find Mail that backs up living together but also her offer of work when she lived in Manchester. Surely that proves that she worked in Manchester for a length of time and we also have a letter and P45 that confirms that she left her job right before our holiday to Australia in 2016 and then she moved in with me.
> 
> ...


You really need to get a migration agent to review everything.

I am not a migration agent or DIBP but to me it sounds like the beginning that you are claiming de facto for sounds more like dating.

It is not about proving she was in Manchester it is about proving that you were in a de facto relationship and not just dating.

Do you have joint car insurance? You mention fuel.

Are the bank statements upload that show groceries etc just yours or your partners too? They like to see expenses from both sides especially if both are working.

Cash does not help with immigration but are you able to highlight the cash withdrawals and match them up? Unfortunately with cash it is up to them taking your word for it.


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## Barron91 (Nov 6, 2016)

Hi, I'm back from my holidays and will be spending most of tomorrow looking through my evidence and seeing how I can strengthen my application "12 months prior to applying".

We don't have joint insurance as we have separate cars and insurance was sky high for us both to be on the same car. We have bank transactions of joint groceries from my bank account. No receipts though. I can highlight and upload my partner's bank statements to show that she has contributed too. 

As for cash withdrawals, we can upload those withdrawals and they should roughly match the same time as my payments to my parents. 

This "de facto" status is becoming very frustrating as it's as clear as mud and everyone's interpretation of it is different. Our relationship was long-distance for 15 months. Who dates for 15 months and not class themselves as de facto? We travelled 2 and half hours by train most weekends to see each other, talked every day, holidayed together many times, attending special events together such as christenings and weddings. Doing normal things like going to the cinema, walking the dog and going to the beach. I went to Australia and met her family, she now lives with me in my families home. 

I'm hoping tomorrow will give me time to make all of this clear to my case officer. Australia is where I want my future to be but it's on hold and seemingly "in the balance"


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## Mania (Sep 7, 2016)

For reference - Australian immigrations definition of defacto:

De facto partner
A person is the de facto partner of another person (whether of the same sex or a different sex) if:
they have a mutual commitment to a shared life to the exclusion of all others
the relationship between them is genuine and continuing
they live together or do not live separately and apart on a permanent basis
they are not related by family.


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

Alot of people date for 15 months or more and do not call themselves de facto. I know of someone who has dated for 3 years and they do not live together and they do not class themselves as de facto either.

I also know of plenty of people that go and visit people on the weekend or every second week and they say that they are dating too.

It is purely going to come down if DIBP believe that you were in a de facto relationship prior to living together or if they consider it dating. It is all going to come down to the evidence you supply to them.

I can not say this enough .... go and have a consult with a migration agent (there are about 4 of this forum that regularly post and do consults via Skype). They will go through all of your evidence to make sure you have enough and they will give you suggestions if you do not have enough.

It is all going to come down to the evidence that you supply and if DIBP are satisfied that you have been in a de facto relationship 12 months prior to lodging the application.


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## Barron91 (Nov 6, 2016)

Mish said:


> Alot of people date for 15 months or more and do not call themselves de facto. I know of someone who has dated for 3 years and they do not live together and they do not class themselves as de facto either.
> 
> I also know of plenty of people that go and visit people on the weekend or every second week and they say that they are dating too.
> 
> ...


How do I find the migration agents on here?


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

Barron91 said:


> How do I find the migration agents on here?


Their forum names are:
- JeremyHooper (who has already replied in this thread) 
- CCMS
- MarkNortham
- Wrussell

Just do a search on their name and you can find any post by them. In all of their posts their signature will contain their contact information.

Good-luck


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## Barron91 (Nov 6, 2016)

Mish said:


> Their forum names are:
> - JeremyHooper (who has already replied in this thread)
> - CCMS
> - MarkNortham
> ...


Thanks you


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## Barron91 (Nov 6, 2016)

Hi everyone, just posting an update to my issue. I ended up consulting a migration agent (Mark Northam) who was extremely helpful after a Skype call with him and a review of my evidence. 

The evidence was found to be strong after all but I needed to link all my evidence together so the CO had a clear picture of our relationship. I wrote a lengthy letter to link my evidence and I have now been requested to supply police check and attend medical .

So .... I'm almost there  cheering!


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## GDayAus (Mar 26, 2017)

This thread has been highly insightful not just for you Barron, but also others I'm sure like myself. I'm applying for a "de facto" partner visa in a few months and just starting to look into what all we need to start organizing/preparing for our visa application. We are applying on-shore and will have been together officially as a "de facto" for 1 year & 1 day when we lodge the online application.

Although during our "de facto" we have never lived apart like you two did (1 person in London & the other Manchester), I was overseas up til the day I came into Australia and we moved in with my Aussie partner straight away (and have been living with them 6 months since). We have traveled heaps together in/out of Australia and will continue to this year. We too don't have a joint rental agreement, but we have heaps of credit card transactions showing shared groceries, meals, etc in the same town her home is, plus of course we'll have written statements from family/friends/neighbors verifying we've been living together since our de facto date. 

We were thinking in our heads a couple weeks ago when we started talking about the partner visa that because we've been living together every day (despite minimal paper trail like a rental agreement), taken numerous holidays together, soon she'll meet my family in the US, I'll meet her Dad's family in Europe, we've spent heaps of family with her family here in Australia in different states, etc .... plus we're planning on registering our relationship soon .... and we have heaps of social media posts with family, friends, and of course 1-on-1 .... we'd be fine. We are planning to apply 1 year & 1 day after we began living in the same house together (yes, we moved in for the sake of our formal relationship).

After reading your ordeal and their questioning, my partner/I realize we need to start organising ourselves much better gathering bank statements, receipts, keeping all our holiday travel receipts, etc. Even things like wedding invites and photos from those. 

If you can think of any other advice you could give me (and others) that will be launching the partner visa, please feel free. You've been a massive help to us and I'm so glad this forum has helped you seemingly get past their questions. Thanks for being so open about your situation in this public setting - it's been a massive help for you and us.


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## Barron91 (Nov 6, 2016)

GDayAus said:


> This thread has been highly insightful not just for you Barron, but also others I'm sure like myself. I'm applying for a "de facto" partner visa in a few months and just starting to look into what all we need to start organizing/preparing for our visa application. We are applying on-shore and will have been together officially as a "de facto" for 1 year & 1 day when we lodge the online application.
> 
> Although during our "de facto" we have never lived apart like you two did (1 person in London & the other Manchester), I was overseas up til the day I came into Australia and we moved in with my Aussie partner straight away (and have been living with them 6 months since). We have traveled heaps together in/out of Australia and will continue to this year. We too don't have a joint rental agreement, but we have heaps of credit card transactions showing shared groceries, meals, etc in the same town her home is, plus of course we'll have written statements from family/friends/neighbors verifying we've been living together since our de facto date.
> 
> ...


I'm so happy that you've found my ordeal helpful. It was a testing experience to say the least. Organisation is definitely king in all of this. Ensuring you have depth across all areas and a good spread of things too. Our evidence of relationship was enough but it was the long distance relationship that brought into question our "de facto" status.

If you can, register your relationship as that will help avoid the issue we faced.

On final tip. Make sure you keep everything together in one paper or digital file. E.G - evidence of financial commitments. Caption all evidence with a brief explanation as to what it is and combine documents into one PDF file. That way, evidence won't be overlooked and misunderstood.

I hope that helps. Although I am not terribly active on here, I do get email alerts so if you need any further advise then feel free to contact.


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## Barron91 (Nov 6, 2016)

Medical completed on 17/04/17 and I received my grant of visa email on 19/04/17. That's me all set, I'm finishing my teaching in July to end the school year and will be traveling Asia before arriving in Australia in September time. 

A huge thank you to all that contributed with helpful advice as you helped me through a challenging visa process


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