# Interesting Visa - Defacto ( Criminal Record )



## alexisonfire (Dec 4, 2011)

Hello all!

This forum has alot of information about visa's & immigration and really opened my mind. I would like to give a thanks to forum starter (elkitten) who provided very good information on the de facto relationship.

A little background on my situation, im 21, from singapore. I have completed my national service and currently finishing up my degree in singapore. I have had trouble with the law before, nothing serious with jailtime, but fines. Question....
1) Do i have to declare i have had a criminal record? (because its a fine rather than jailtime)
2) What are the chances of obtaining a visa with a criminal record?

More information , my girlfriend is currently holding 2 citizenships. 1 Australia & 1 Singapore. She is 21.
1) When does she have to make a decision to keep either passports?

Visa Application
Me and my girlfriend have been seeing each other for about 3 years now.
We became serious when we hit our 1st year and i moved in together with her parents. Just this year, due to financial reasons she moved house and i had to move out due to space constraints.

I have bank statements which shows proof of same address for about 1 year ++ however will the fact that were not staying together now affect our defacto relationship visa application?

I look forward to all replies. Thank you for all the help.
God Bless.


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## alexisonfire (Dec 4, 2011)

no replies? seriously?


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## alexisonfire (Dec 4, 2011)

Should add that cases are in 2005.
Got Fined in 2008.

Cases involved - Using Fraudulent Document, Assault, Theft


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## whatnext (Aug 3, 2011)

Usually the big problem is jail time but you should include the offenses in the application. This is a bit of a grey area so we can't really tell you how much it will affect your application because it's very individual problem and is at the discretion of immigration. 

The time not living together may be a problem and not knowing the situation it's also hard to comment on that. It depends on how long it's been and how well you can prove that financial hardship you to live apart. 

I would suggest speaking to an immigration agent as your problems may need professional advice.


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## alexisonfire (Dec 4, 2011)

whatnext said:


> Usually the big problem is jail time but you should include the offenses in the application. This is a bit of a grey area so we can't really tell you how much it will affect your application because it's very individual problem and is at the discretion of immigration.
> 
> The time not living together may be a problem and not knowing the situation it's also hard to comment on that. It depends on how long it's been and how well you can prove that financial hardship you to live apart.
> 
> I would suggest speaking to an immigration agent as your problems may need professional advice.


I thank you and appreciate your response. 
From your reply is it right to say that,

No Jail-Time = Greenlight to apply?
I contacted the authorities and they told me that my Certificate of Clearance(Stating that i have no criminal conviction) will get rejected because of my previous cases and will have to re-apply for another one stating all my cases.

What if i can't remember ALL my cases but only specific ones? Can i leave it blank or only name some? Will the record follow me to Australia when applying for jobs?

We, are not in financial hardship.
We have separate bank accounts but want to apply on a partner visa.
We have stayed together for more than 1 year.
The relationship has been going on for about 3 years altogether.
We have traveled together ( pictures)
Many forms of communication logs ( SMS, Skype, MSN, Facebook)
Currently,we have not been living together for 1 month (House too small)


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## whatnext (Aug 3, 2011)

It's very hard to answer on this issue because its so individual. Even though you'Ve had no jail time they may take into account you have multiple cases and the severity of those crimes. A migration lawyer may have the answers for you. It's best to include all your cases because they will do a security check on you and if they find something you have left out your application will most likely be denied. 

The Immi website says you must be living together for 12 months prior to application but if there are any periods of separation it must be for a substantial reason. You would have to show that even though you are not living together you are still committed somehow.. Eg.. Sharing finances or financially supporting each other in some way.


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## alexisonfire (Dec 4, 2011)

whatnext said:


> It's very hard to answer on this issue because its so individual. Even though you'Ve had no jail time they may take into account you have multiple cases and the severity of those crimes. A migration lawyer may have the answers for you. It's best to include all your cases because they will do a security check on you and if they find something you have left out your application will most likely be denied.
> 
> The Immi website says you must be living together for 12 months prior to application but if there are any periods of separation it must be for a substantial reason. You would have to show that even though you are not living together you are still committed somehow.. Eg.. Sharing finances or financially supporting each other in some way.


Thank you for all your help.
However i am still unsure if i should apply directly (IMMI Singapore) or go through an agent.


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## bma (Sep 28, 2011)

I would use an agent, an expert that has handled this kind of cases before. I wouldn't apply for the visa on my own. Especially, cause you're not living together at the moment.


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## alexisonfire (Dec 4, 2011)

I would like to update you guys on my current status.
Its been a long journey and Australian immigration on Singapore side was NOT helpful at all, decided to get an agent.

We have chatted with the agent online and they have explained our situation pretty well in a very detailed manner by telling us what we need. I told him about my records and he replied by saying There is a chance this could be referred to the Brisbane Character Unit.

I wasn't sure about my entry/exit to Australia before and he also recommended me getting Movement Records.

Guys, no matter what it is. Do Not Give Up. Always have faith and everything will fall into place. 

One week away to application!!!


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## Boboa (Mar 24, 2009)

As long as there is no jail time and you declared it should be fine. If you didn't declare it you will experience problems after ASIO report comes. So all good, good luck mate


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## Relic.Sinner (Dec 19, 2012)

*How did it go ?*

How did your application go ? I have a similar issue, can you share your Agent's contact ?



alexisonfire said:


> I would like to update you guys on my current status.
> Its been a long journey and Australian immigration on Singapore side was NOT helpful at all, decided to get an agent.
> 
> We have chatted with the agent online and they have explained our situation pretty well in a very detailed manner by telling us what we need. I told him about my records and he replied by saying There is a chance this could be referred to the Brisbane Character Unit.
> ...


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

Excellent story, and it's always better to declare all criminal history, no matter how insignificant. The good news is that there are set rules and procedures that DIAC must follow when it comes to character based refusals or cancellations, and the procedures provide an excellent opportunity in many cases for the applicant to argue in detail why they should not be refused a visa for Australia.

And it is much easier to overcome a declared conviction via the appeal process, than it is to overcome a nondeclared one that DIAC finds out about - it's seen as deliberate deception, and very difficult to argue against. Plus, the new PIC 4020 "Bogus Documents" criteria can result in a 3-year travel ban to Australia if misleading or inaccurate information is provided on a visa application or skills assessment application. Again, more reasons to declare the incidents and then prepare a detailed submission as to why they should not be cause to refuse or cancel your visa.

For more info on character refusal guidelines you can Google DIAC and Ministerial Direction 55 which is the current document that describes the character cancellation and refusal process.

Good luck with your case!

Best,

Mark Northam
Registered Migration Agent MARN 1175508
Northam & Associates
Sydney, Australia


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## Old 70s Vinyl (Dec 25, 2012)

Thanks for that 'DIAC and Ministerial Direction 55' I have a query in thsi regard so all tools to research it help.


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## louiseb (Dec 22, 2012)

hi i dont want to put the spanner in the works but i was always on the understanding that if a person had a criminal record especially relating to fraud, this is a strong point for the Australian immigration to decline an application, especially as your saying there was more than one and some of them you cannot remember. 
Your police conduct should show any criminal records that you have being convicted of, and as the Immigration ask for this then they will see everything. 
I think the best thing to do is to seek advice and help from a private agency. I know there quite expensive but at least they can give professional advice.

good luck

P.S i forgot to mention that the immigration/CO do actually check with the court department and request information. Well they did with me, i was fortunate that Malta is so small and everyone knows everyone, i was actually informed that the immigration department was seeking information. I dont have a criminal record, but through my work i have to appear in court daily.


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## rhodered (Nov 18, 2012)

hearing from a visa applicant that has a criminal record and then came back on this forum and said "it got approved despite my past" is like hearing from the dead!!! i promise, if i get my visa or not,i will post what happens!


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## Old 70s Vinyl (Dec 25, 2012)

Singapore have a spent convictions scheme. It is a relatively lenient one also. With what i believe to be a vey short 5 year clean period. Then your record is cleaned.  (just how cleaned you need to check with them).
I would, assuming you have passed the 5 year waiting period criterior, apply for your criminal record check. Given that it is clear attach it to the application. 
Australian government only knows what Singapore govt tells them. They are not some all knowing Sage like they would have you believe. If you have spent convictions that do not show on your singapore record you should check the privacy laws in Singapore to see what detail Singapore govt chooses to share. Likely scenario is that you do not have a criminal record of any sort. They can only do these detailed in depth checks inside Australia (someone mentioned ASIO type checks) where they have the ability to violate your privacy. Outside Australia they have very little power and will only recover what the foreign govt is required to give. eg: your expunged or spent/clean record. Check with Singapore govt, and review their privacy laws, spent conviction laws and apply for a detailed copy of your record. Find out how much private sensitive personal information on is citizens the Singapore govt chooses to freely give away to other countries general run of the mill immigration inquirys.
Only divulge what you are legallly obliged to divulge. 
Unlike the Australian spent conviction scheme many countries have a scheme that is truly geared for rehabilitation, in that when the clear time is complete the record is truly deleted and only recoverable by that nations intelligence agencys. (Unlike Australias antiquated state by state one).


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## kttykat (Oct 30, 2012)

Old 70s Vinyl said:


> Singapore have a spent convictions scheme. It is a relatively lenient one also. With what i believe to be a vey short 5 year clean period. Then your record is cleaned.  (just how cleaned you need to check with them).
> I would, assuming you have passed the 5 year waiting period criterior, apply for your criminal record check. Given that it is clear attach it to the application.
> Australian government only knows what Singapore govt tells them. They are not some all knowing Sage like they would have you believe. If you have spent convictions that do not show on your singapore record you should check the privacy laws in Singapore to see what detail Singapore govt chooses to share. Likely scenario is that you do not have a criminal record of any sort. They can only do these detailed in depth checks inside Australia (someone mentioned ASIO type checks) where they have the ability to violate your privacy. Outside Australia they have very little power and will only recover what the foreign govt is required to give. eg: your expunged or spent/clean record. Check with Singapore govt, and review their privacy laws, spent conviction laws and apply for a detailed copy of your record. Find out how much private sensitive personal information on is citizens the Singapore govt chooses to freely give away to other countries general run of the mill immigration inquirys.
> Only divulge what you are legallly obliged to divulge.
> Unlike the Australian spent conviction scheme many countries have a scheme that is truly geared for rehabilitation, in that when the clear time is complete the record is truly deleted and only recoverable by that nations intelligence agencys. (Unlike Australias antiquated state by state one).


First dot point of form 47SP Part H - Character Q71

Have you, or any other person included in this
application, ever:
• been convicted of a crime or offence in
any country (including any conviction
which is now removed from official
records)?

Australian immigration makes it clear that they want you to report spent convictions and I wouldn't underestimate their ability to find out anyway through ASIO, so you are taking a gamble by not declaring them when asked to IMHO.

Kttykat


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## louiseb (Dec 22, 2012)

kttykat said:


> First dot point of form 47SP Part H - Character Q71
> 
> Have you, or any other person included in this
> application, ever:
> ...


 well said KK its true that the immigration department check everything. I work with the law courts in Malta for the government and i do know that they check every applicant and every court convictions a person has ever held,. As i said in a previous post when the immigration checked with the courts of Malta, they wanted to know every detail of every time i had appeared in court, for me as a private investigator i am always in court lol so the list was a long one lol. No criminal records lol

But well said KK


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## Old 70s Vinyl (Dec 25, 2012)

I completely agree. They do want you to tell them everything and you should tell them everything they require and everything you are supposed to disclose without exception or risk prosecution and rejection. Please let me preface by saying 'do everything that is required'- However in contrast the harsh reality is that a foreign national who has an expunged criminal record knows they are not going to get a Visa approved so sadly of course they are going to lie, what have they to lose. In addition many countrys (one reason why Aus is so great!) are so corrupt that a conviction can be spent simply by paying a few officials. It will not be and cannot be traced- dependant on country and its individual policys of course.
However- can they find out? 
They (being any Aus govt authority) can only request information from other countrys or establish information exchange agreements, and many countrys are only two happy to give what they can-limited of course under their own laws. 
ASIO sadly for them and sadly for our national security just cannot willie nillie delve into the personal records of other nations citizens in countrys that are not under the Australian commonwealth.- Probably good for national security if they could, but they cant. If you think they can please explain how you think for example Immi or its arms could exume the deleted records of someone with an expunged criminal record from say Iran or North Korea....not likely.
A Nations policys on what they will disclose vary greatly. It is nothing to do with Australia but with the foreign countrys legislation that determines what information is disclosed and their policy agreements with Australian govt.


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## kmarees1986 (Apr 23, 2012)

Did those on here with criminal records end up with a happy ending?


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## rhodered (Nov 18, 2012)

i have a juvenile record and just got approved...dont sweat it,just be super honest and write a cover letter explaining you were young and dumb and you have to show youve changed your life...i would suppose they would dent it if you have been in trouble in the last couple years. i havent had contact with the law in 13 years besides speeding tickets.


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