# Temporary or Permanent Partner Visa?



## miniature.moose (Jul 22, 2011)

Hi everyone,

I just had a question about eligibility for the subclass 100 for the Partner Visa. I read a post by "Leanne"  (Hi Leanne. Sorry, didn't want to break the rules about replying to posts on the timeline thread) in the Family Visa Timeline thread, stating that she received an email asking for medicals for her husband and that it looked as though the application was for the Subclass 100 (permanent) visa rather than the usual temporary subclass 309 visa. I understand that they have been together for 5 years, are married and have a baby together, so I can see why this would make them eligible.

When I checked my partner's email requesting medicals the email stated that it was for a "Subclass BC/100" category visa. Does anyone know what the "BC" stands for and whether or not this means we are also being considered for a permanent visa? I think this would be unlikely in our case as although we have been together almost 5 years and lived together over 2.5 years in total we had gaps in between due to visas etc and only lived together without any time in between for 15 months prior to lodging our application. I should mention at this point that the form for the medical checks mentions Subclass 309, so I'm a bit confused. I'm sure that we're not eligible for the permanent visa as there seem to be lots of people on here more eligible who are still granted a temporary visa for 2 years first.

Does anyone have any experience with this? Have any of you been granted a permanent visa outright, and if so, under what circumstances? Thanks! 

P.S. I did read about outright permanent visa eligibility in the Partner Migration booklet but the criteria weren't 100% clear to me. They state that a Subclass 100 visa may be granted outright when a couple has been in a "partner relationship" for at least 3 years. I'm not sure if "partner" criteria is equivalent with "de facto" or not...


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## GermanInBrissie (Jan 7, 2012)

Hi,

I am in the same situation, been together 6 years and lived together with lots of gaps, now just short of 3 years without a gap. I called immigration last week and asked about whether I should wait for the exact 3 years but they said it doesn't have to be 3 years of continuous living together if you can show you have been in a serious long term relationship, even long distance e.g. phone contact. I hope that's right and I am eligible for PR outright too. 

But I'd also like to know if anyone has been approved without a clear case of living together...


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## miniature.moose (Jul 22, 2011)

Very interesting GermanInBrissie! I am interested to hear what others have experienced with this as well. Good to hear that you can apply for sublass 100 outright- simplifies things a bit! It's a shame that Germany doesn't allow dual citizenship though...then again, PR is almost as good


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## GermanInBrissie (Jan 7, 2012)

Oh, I always thought I can easily get dual citizenship but my partner can't as an Aussie - I just checked again after reading your post and it's the other way around! But you can keep German citizenship when you apply before going for Aussie citizenship and they might grant it in some cases...Hm, might just keep PR then, that's if I get it


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## miniature.moose (Jul 22, 2011)

I'm sure you'll get PR if that's what info they've given you. Yeah I think Germany only allows dual citizenship from other EU countries unfortunately. Australia allows dual citizenship regardless of nationality (as far as I know) but if Germany doesn't allow it, wouldn't a German citizen have to renounce their German citizenship in order to be an Australian citizen even though Australia allows dual citizenship...or would it only be the case that an Australian citizen would have to renounce their Australian citizenship to be eligible for German citizenship? Surely a child born to Australian and German parents would automatically have dual citizenship...right? Confusing. Anyway, I think PR is a good place to start!


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## Adventuress (Jan 8, 2012)

Hi Miniature Moose and GermanInBrissie,

In my own experience being a dual citizen can be somewhat tricky but mostly countries stick to what is correct within their own jurisdictions.

In your cases I know that Australia would recognise the German citizenship, but I think that Germany would simply consider that the German citizen was only a German citizen. This is true if the German citizenship was the first citizenship and any other was received subsequent to it.

On the other hand, if, being a citizen of another country, one applied to become a citizen of Germany, it would be probably be a condition of the application that any other citizenships held would be declined.

It may be that the dual citizen would leave and enter Germany on their German passport and leave and enter Australia on their Australian passport (the latter is definitely true as entering on any other passport requires a visa). In some countries where dual citizenship is not allowed it may be wise to hide the second passport and the fact of its existence, but I don't think Germany is on that list.

As for children, matters of dual citizenship are rarely automatic but definitely possible. It also depends on the country in which the child was born. It usually just takes an application. If, for example, a child with one Australian citizen parent was born outside of Australia, then an appplication for the child to receive 'citizenship by descent' should be fairly straightforward. However, keep in mind that that child may have difficulty passing on the Australian citizenship to his or her own children if the child had not spent considerable time in Australia.


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## miniature.moose (Jul 22, 2011)

Great info adventuress. Thanks!


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## Adventuress (Jan 8, 2012)

You're welcome 

I found some more information that might be useful, on a site called multiple citizenship dot com - if you go to the link on the home page for 'country specific' information you'll find a little section about Germany.

There are a couple of points but most interesting is that children of a German citizen do automatically receive German citizenship at birth without application, and it is permanent (i.e. there's no requirement to choose when the child reaches an age of majority).


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## GermanInBrissie (Jan 7, 2012)

Ok I am confused again after my obsessive internet research as to whether I am eligible for PR without waiting. It says that you need to be in a 'de facto' relationship for 3 years or more, does that mean lease, bank account etc.? On other sites I found 'long term partner relationship' which could be anything. When I called Immi the guy said it doesn't mean continuous living together, others said it does!

I would really like to make sure I am eligible for PR, that's the whole reason I'm alpplying now and not earlier. So again, has anyone been granted instant PR where it wasn't a clear case, i. e. married, kids, mortgage? Or does it depend on the CO as with different people from Immi saying different things? Cheers


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## whatnext (Aug 3, 2011)

When I checked the Immi website the other day I saw it was 5 yrs without children or 2 yrs with children. 

Defacto means you are in a relationship to the exclusion of all others. You don't need joint bank accounts or joint leases. It certainly helps but essential. There are other ways to prove you are committed financially and there are other ways to prove you live together without a joint lease.


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## whatnext (Aug 3, 2011)

Apologies I meant 3 yrs not 5.


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## GermanInBrissie (Jan 7, 2012)

Thanks whatnext,

Our situation is a bit complicated, i'd like to know what you think

Met: Feb 2006 on WHV
Moved in with him March 2006 (though no lease, bills etc.)
Went home May 2006
Came back July 2006 on WHV (again no lease or bills)
Went home for Xmas Dec 2006
Came back Jan 2007 on 2nd WHV (proof of address on payslips) 
Went back with my partner joining me in June 2007, travelled Europe, started uni
My partner had to go back to OZ cause he couldn't find work in Germany (speaks little German) and had to return to his job instead
I came back in Feb 2008 on TV (we lived with his sister, no lease, bills)
Went back home for uni in Apr 2008
Came back in July 2008 on TV (again lived with his sister)
We both returned to Germany in Oct 2008, he left again (work) in Dec 2008
I returned to Oz in Feb 2009 on student visa, we moved to Brisbane together (lease, bills, bank accounts)

Wow, that does sound complicated. Fact is, we HAVE been in a committed, exclusive relationship forever and saved every cent to be together any time it was possible. We were only apart due to uni/work reasons. So have we been de facto in the eyes of immigration? I should mention there's little proof of address other than what we and 888s might say but the frequent travel should show our commitment and we have letters, skype etc. in periods of separation. We have always combined our money but have little proof for that either (my online bank statements don't go back that far). Help please...


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## whatnext (Aug 3, 2011)

Hi

Your periods apart were not that long and you had good reasons each time. 

Do you have any mail that was addressed to you both or individually at those addresses?

Have you paid for things for each other. You can go into your bank and request statements from as far back as you want. They charge a small fee but it's worth it. 

While you were living at some of those addresses did you apply for anything using that address. Those businesses etc may be able to supply you with the form or whatever you submitted. Basically Anthony you can think of to back up any stat decs you get. 

The evidence doesn't have to be joint or official. It could be a card or letter sent to you as long as it has that address on it.

Stat decs hold a lot of weight to because thy are legal declarations. Get friends and family to write in their stat dec that they knew to be living at those addresses. 

I think you'll be fine but include even the smallest things even if you think they don't mean much. Write a detailed description of how bills and general expenses are paid. I did a spreadsheet so it was easy to see at a glance. Dont be afraid to over explain everything because Immi just see you as a couple on paper so explain as much as you can. 

The fact that you both have travelled back and forth to be with each other is a good example of financial committment.


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## GermanInBrissie (Jan 7, 2012)

Thanks again for your advice,

I have mail addressed to me at the address we lived 2006-07 but for 2008 there's nothing to show we lived at the same place. Then again, maybe I'm stressing too much showing EVERYTHING as they need 3 years (in my case) of evidence and for Jan 2009 I can show my partner paid for my flight ticket from Sydney to his hometown and I arrived in Feb and we have bookings for that date. Do you think they might request more info if they need it or would they just decide not to grant PR and TR instead? I can't get bank statements easily because my old accounts are in Germany but I have some of my partner's credit card statements from that time. I will get lots of stat decs from people who can confirm we lived together as a couple, so I think it should be okay, I'm just worried if that 3 year rule is as strict as the 12 month requirement...


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## whatnext (Aug 3, 2011)

I think they would mostly focus on the last 12 months for evidence of living together but you are allowed ti have reasonable breaks if work, study or visas didn't permit you being together the entire time. The other 2 years I think they would be less strict in the living together requirement and as long as you can show you were in a committed relationship for that time you should be fine.


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## Leanne (Oct 10, 2011)

Did anyone find out what BC means? Minature moose, your partner is going for the permanent regardless of how long you have been together. Obviously Berlin Office was convinced with all your evidence!

Also Germans cannot have dual citizenship with a European nation. I live in Italy and know a few Germans who had to choose on passport or the other. I wonder if Italy accepts dual citizens? I have an Italian passport too since my dad was born here,but I was born in Australia. I hope my husband can get dual!
Best of luck to you all.


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## miniature.moose (Jul 22, 2011)

Thanks Leanne,
I hope you're right. Though to be honest, we'd be happy with the provisional or permanent so that we can just be together after 4.5 years of restrictive, transient visas and prolonged separation (well, you know what it is like!). 

That's interesting about the citizenship thing. I think we'd be happy with just PR but I thought that laws changed recently. My German teacher who is from Hungary told me that laws changed recently and that he can now have a German and Hungarian passport, so he decided to get a German passport now that he doesn't have to give up his hungarian one to obtain it. So, I don't know what the deal is. I hope your husband can get dual too- not essential but makes things easier. Thank you for your reply. All the best!


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## frankie (Sep 6, 2011)

My partner and I had been in a defacto for over 4 years when we applied in june 2011 but we actually lived apart for 12 months prior to that, from june 2010, because of sickness/old age in both of our families. I had to be with my family and he had to stay with his family in Oz. He visited me twice tho.

I got a PR (100) after 3,5 months. Every case is different so its hard to give exact advise. We didnt have any joint accounts and I found only one postcard adressed to us. We had thrown all other mail in the bin!


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## kiran_2884 (Jan 12, 2012)

Some 1 please guide me or help me!!! I am kiran from pakistan and wana apply for skilled immigration to australia. My husband is a banker and has done MBA and our qualifications have been successfully approved by the CPA . But the problem is that my husband has got irlts 6.5 and cant try again. But ielts 7 each is necessary for accountant category. Plz some1 help me out. Is there any chance tht i should apply in wotever score we have. ????


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## GermanInBrissie (Jan 7, 2012)

Hi whatnext and frankie,

Thanks for your replies, I decided to stop stressing about it, after all we have been in a genuine relationship and if they want more evidence they can ask for it. It should be obvious that people don't keep everything on file for years but overall, if people are genuine there will be a way to 'prove' it, right? And frankie, good to know they do consider the human side of people having to be apart. 

Miniaturemoose and leanne, I think it would be better in some cases if you could get dual citizenship, especially if you want to work for the federal government in Australia which I have been looking at. If that's possible, it doesn't really matter whether Germany recognises it as long as you can travel to Oz and work without problems.


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