# Help: after waiting 12 months spouse visa refused



## pollygoh2002 (Jan 17, 2014)

We are very upset and sad. Yesterday we received an email that our spouse visa was refused.

What will we do?


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## thesmoothsuit (Sep 9, 2013)

Sorry to hear this. You can appeal the decision and go to a hearing. Otherwise you could try a different visa.


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## Confused2 (Oct 19, 2013)

pollygoh2002 said:


> We are very upset and sad. Yesterday we received an email that our spouse visa was refused.
> 
> What will we do?


I m sorry to hear that. what was the reason? can't you appeal or apply for different visa?


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## CollegeGirl (Nov 10, 2012)

What reason did they give for your refusal? I'd contact a MARA-registered agent, and then depending on the reason for the refusal (i.e., if you can prove they were incorrect in what they said with evidence) I'd either go forward with appealing at MRT, or collect additional evidence and re-apply if you think you don't have a case for MRT.


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## pollygoh2002 (Jan 17, 2014)

Reason was we couldn't supply NADRA marriage registration certificate. Nikah Nama was ignored and DIBP told us we are not legally married.
We advised DIBP that we have taken out a court decree against Secretary of Union Council. We were hoping DIBP would wait a couple of extra weeks until the court case was finished and we received our MRC.
What other visa are you suggesting we can take out.


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

Sorry to hear about your refusal. You could go a pmv since you aren't legally married. A nikah nama is not a legal marriage unless you register it ... without registration it is a religious marriage only.


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## pollygoh2002 (Jan 17, 2014)

Thanks for your information Mish. But we are going through court as we speak and hopefully, should have our MRC ready for the tribunal.


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

Have you thought of reapplying after you get your certificate? Just that by the time it goes to mrt and then back to the embassy (applicant will also need their medicals and police checks redone) it could be 18 months or 2 years until finalised.


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## pollygoh2002 (Jan 17, 2014)

I will ask our migration agent that question and see what he says.
I am sending you a private message re this.


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## ampk (Sep 21, 2013)

Were they informed of the pending court case? 

Certainly a bit rough if they were. Very sorry to hear.


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## pollygoh2002 (Jan 17, 2014)

Yes we couriered a letter to them, advising of the court case a week before the refusal letter was sent to us. I thought that was a rotten thing to do.


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## Star Hunter (Jun 29, 2012)

Oh, I'm sorry for you guys! I really am! That really was a pretty rotten thing to do when you had a court case pending - they could have waited a few more weeks. 

I'm sending you guys lots of strength vibes to help you through this


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## pollygoh2002 (Jan 17, 2014)

Thanks Star Hunter - you are very kind and it's nice to hear your words of support.


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## boycot123 (Apr 16, 2014)

I'm really sorry to hear that pollygoh. Can't believe that you were unable to get a Marriage Registration Certificate which became the cause of refusal. Gosh, I'm lost for words here! I really feel for you


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## pollygoh2002 (Jan 17, 2014)

Thanks for your support boycot. And wouldn't you think DIBP could wait just another week or so until the court case went through?


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## boycot123 (Apr 16, 2014)

pollygoh2002 said:


> Thanks for your support boycot. And wouldn't you think DIBP could wait just another week or so until the court case went through?


Yes I fancy they could have waited. Tell me, when did they ask you for Nadra marriage certificate?

On the other hand they could've thought why didn't you apply in court before hand, why at the very last minute? when you were unable to get that certificate through normal means?

Just my thought on it.


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## pollygoh2002 (Jan 17, 2014)

The NADRA certificate was requested a couple of months after our marriage. Our migration agent believed our letter, detailing problems trying to get the MRC, was sufficient. We spent about $2,000-$3,000 AUD over a period of six months, attempting to get the certificate.
We are taking the secretary UC to court. He has refused to attend court twice now, and it is looking like he will refuse to turn up for the third court order.
The charge is attempted bribery and refusing to register our marriage with NADRA. If he doesn't turn up for the third court order, we will win the case, and our marriage will be registered with NADRA.


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## pollygoh2002 (Jan 17, 2014)

And we didn't receive any acknowledgement or comment from DIBP about the letter. So we were in the dark about the acceptance of that, until the last minute, when we received a tip off.


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## boycot123 (Apr 16, 2014)

pollygoh2002 said:


> The NADRA certificate was requested a couple of months after our marriage. Our migration agent believed our letter, detailing problems trying to get the MRC, was sufficient. We spent about $2,000-$3,000 AUD over a period of six months, attempting to get the certificate.
> We are taking the secretary UC to court. He has refused to attend court twice now, and it is looking like he will refuse to turn up for the third court order.
> The charge is attempted bribery and refusing to register our marriage with NADRA. If he doesn't turn up for the third court order, we will win the case, and our marriage will be registered with NADRA.


3 grand is absolutely terrible and that too for just a certificate which is only PKR 1500 (only $15 Australian dollars). I'm informing you of such fee as per my experience in January 2014 which is very recent. You should have taken him to court the very next day when he asked you more money. How could you get sucked into it? That greedy man has not only mislead you but also taken 6 grands off you (visa and certificate expenses all inclusive). 



pollygoh2002 said:


> And we didn't receive any acknowledgement or comment from DIBP about the letter. So we were in the dark about the acceptance of that, until the last minute, when we received a tip off.


DIBP is like weather. You can't predict. It's just unfortunate that you're on the receiving end of such terrible incident and such terrible outcome. I really really feel for you.

Tell you what, it's been only a couple of months since I'm apart from my better half, it's very daunting and I can't begin to imagine how you must feel right now. I have no words for you. I hope you win the case and DIBP accepts your appeal (if it is possible to appeal).


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## pollygoh2002 (Jan 17, 2014)

We didn't know anything about marriage in Pakistan and certificates. 
We were told later on by brother-in-law that this man is bribing everyone who needs a marriage registration certificate. We refused to pay what he demanded because he was greedy.
Yes we are making an appeal. We will go to the Migration Review Tribunal, which unfortunately can be another 18 months.
Being separated from husband is hell. I am lucky I can go over there to visit him.
Thank you for your wishes.


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## ampk (Sep 21, 2013)

Again I am sorry to hear your story.

They knew the document was pending!

You say after 12 months wait!! was it just under or just over?

People may take offence of this!!! 

Processing time "published" is 12 months and lack of document had make for rejection by the rules. 

Quotas need to be maintained- aim to process 90% in 12 months?


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

My only thought is that it is a time of application requirement (a couple of migration agents on here have mentioned about that) but if it was a time of application requirement why wait 12 months to tell you?

Maybe post in Ask Mark! and ask him about the time of application requirement and not having an official marriage certificate...


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## ampk (Sep 21, 2013)

It is called commercial pressures in the private sector Mish.

The top end of the heat need to show budget conditions are fine. Pressures are placed to be more productive to = the 90%.

Or someone important lets call him Scott looks bad for dropping productivity.

It would be wonderful if this case had a few more weeks, but maybe decisions needed to be made - The officer concerned may have been happy to wait?


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## pollygoh2002 (Jan 17, 2014)

Just under. They sent refusal on 1 May. 12 months was due on 13 May.


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## pollygoh2002 (Jan 17, 2014)

But we actually received the refusal by email on 4 May. It was dated 1 May 2014.


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## ampk (Sep 21, 2013)

Is that the only reason listed as refusal?

If so I would go to your local Senators office and explain it all to them. In our case (visitor visa) they contacted immigration had a chat, then rang me back.

There were more reasons than we had been informed - Ukraine has a red flag, they were suspicious about her having a 20K account on 150 per month and a few other things.

If there is no other things on your file, they maybe? able to help. Some will some won't, I went to both a Labor and a Liberal Senator. Naturally one was far happier to write a letter to Scott.


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## pollygoh2002 (Jan 17, 2014)

That was the major reason. There were a few minor reasons, like the fact that we eloped, no photos of wedding dress/es (culturally not allowed to photograph women), file was a bit short on social photos, although we were misinformed about that and I do have photos showing our relatives and friends.

Do you mean I can go to my local Labor and Liberal Senators? I never thought of that. Our CO is in Pakistan.


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## pollygoh2002 (Jan 17, 2014)

Thanks Mish,

I will ask Mark about that.


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## ampk (Sep 21, 2013)

Polly,

It is not a well known fact that the offices of the Senator's are for the public to use and for them to assist where they can - In actual fact that is why they are there.

I assume 1 of you is in Australia? Your Case Officer is employed by Australia, and no matter what country our Embassy is in - think WikiLeaks.

Of the all of the people in Australia that can have direct contact with the Minister for Immigration Senators, in your area are a few of the 76 people.

If you have a very good case to present to them and your Senator is interested, then is a very good and free place to start.


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

pollygoh2002 said:


> That was the major reason. There were a few minor reasons, like the fact that we eloped, no photos of wedding dress/es (culturally not allowed to photograph women), file was a bit short on social photos, although we were misinformed about that and I do have photos showing our relatives and friends.
> 
> Do you mean I can go to my local Labor and Liberal Senators? I never thought of that. Our CO is in Pakistan.


Out of curiosity sake, how many social photos did you provide? There are people on the forum that have said to only provide 8-12 and IMO that is not enough, so I am just curious to how many you provided.

Are you saying culturally you are not allowed to photograph women in general or just a weddings? Is that just a Pakistan thing?


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## boycot123 (Apr 16, 2014)

Mish said:


> Out of curiosity sake, how many social photos did you provide? There are people on the forum that have said to only provide 8-12 and IMO that is not enough, so I am just curious to how many you provided.
> 
> Are you saying culturally you are not allowed to photograph women in general or just a weddings? Is that just a Pakistan thing?


Born and bread in Pakistan until I moved to Australia (for good) at a very mature age. Some facts:

1. There is a race (Pathan) are generally people who belong to Northern province of Pakistan named "Peshawar". They have spread all across Pakistan. Good people but some do have strict beliefs. One of their belief is that they are known to have very strict rules about photographs especially for women.

I should mention that not every Pakistani is like that. For instance, ME on other the other hand had zillions of photos taken at the wedding, before the wedding and after the wedding and I even posted them on facebook and feel proud to share those moments with friends and those who couldn't attend the wedding.

Some people say it's against the religion; some say only women can't be photographed while others like me believe, it's memories, some very very precious memories. I tend to read books on religion and do not agree with people who say it's against the religion. There is no evidence of that in either the Holy book or hadiths.

Hope that'll give you some idea about it.


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## boycot123 (Apr 16, 2014)

I made a collage of photos. Wedding, Social and fun day out. That reduces the size and number of documents as quite a few of them fit in 5MB file size as pdf. I didn't count them but I think I've provided them with at least 65 of different events.


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## ampk (Sep 21, 2013)

In reply to Mish and of subject - hope a Mod will think about it?

A sticky for ancillary docs. The be a guide for others depending on the trends of time and individual embassy. Just list the number of pages sent.

Date lodged
Embassy name
Photos
emails
postal items
phone records
# Applicant stat decs
# sponsor state decs 

Just a thought - delete any time.


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## pollygoh2002 (Jan 17, 2014)

Thanks for that tip AMPK. I have an appointment with the local member of parliament tomorrow and will see what she says.


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## pollygoh2002 (Jan 17, 2014)

Yes, it is true Mish. No photographs of women allowed. I spent 9 months total in a Pathan village. Photos of children (boys and girls) are okay, and photos of men are okay. When a plumber or a doctor arrived to the family home, we women were locked in a room. I was with mother and all sisters in the room. Of course, I got out the window, turned around and there was a pop-eyed plumber. I quickly went back into the room and closed the window. It is all about religion and respect to Allah.


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## boycot123 (Apr 16, 2014)

pollygoh2002 said:


> It is all about religion and respect to Allah.


Polly, stop misrepresenting the religion and Pakistani people.

One of the most misunderstood areas in Islam is that of the position of women in the religion. The general perception in the West is that Muslim women are subjugated and almost seen as property. While not all Muslims deal with women as inferior, this is unfortunately true in some segments of the Muslim world and this treatment is supposedly justified by the religion. However, when we look at the basis of the religion, the *Quran*, we see a very different picture. In the Quran God makes it very clear that men and women are equal.

When I talk, I have evidence of Quran and I quote here with reference:

[3:195]I never fail to reward any worker among you for any work you do, be you male or female - you are equal to one another.

I strongly disagree with you because you're giving the false impression of the true picture of ISLAM. It's just unfortunate that you believe in Quran yet you are so ignorant of what it says.

Another thing that bugs me about people is the fact that they read the Quran but not understand it. It just defies the logic. How can you just read it but not understand it? It's like saying .... I can read English but not understand it?

As Albert Einstein said: "Any fool can know. The point is to understand." Unfortunately, it's true in this case too. Just remember, all our knowledge begins with the senses, proceeds then to the understanding, and ends with reason. There is nothing higher than reason.

I've given my reasoning, do you have yours to support your claim "It's all about religion and Respect to Allah"?


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## CollegeGirl (Nov 10, 2012)

Okay... can we not get into a religious discussion here? I understand your desire to correct any misconceptions, boycot, but now that you've said your piece can we get back on topic and talk about immigration issues? Thanks.


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## pollygoh2002 (Jan 17, 2014)

I'm sorry I gave the wrong impression and misrepresented the religion and the Pakistani people. I had no such intention. I don't believe Muslim women are subjugated and almost seen as property. I have been a revert for a short time and still have a lot to learn.


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## boycot123 (Apr 16, 2014)

pollygoh2002 said:


> I'm sorry I gave the wrong impression and misrepresented the religion and the Pakistani people. I had no such intention. I don't believe Muslim women are subjugated and almost seen as property. I have been a revert for a short time and still have a lot to learn.


Legend ..... so happy to see it was just a misunderstanding. I just couldn't help myself but clear the misrepresentation. Anyway, I'm glad that air is cleared now 

Either way, do let me know of your case progress. I'll be anxiously waiting to hear from you.


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## pollygoh2002 (Jan 17, 2014)

Thanks boycot, will keep you posted.


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## chicken999 (May 2, 2013)

Please urgently apply for a copy if ur immig file through freedom if information act, u will need this to move forward and it's very helpful and interesting reading


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## chicken999 (May 2, 2013)

I can't pm u anymore polly ur messages are full but...here is my reply



Sure I will help u no problem. I did literally drown them second pmv. So much so the co eventually wrote to me and said pls don't send any more I'm satisfied about ur relationship. Best words I ever heard 

I still recommend u do a consult first to see if ur better off doing mrt or doing 2nd visa cause u don't want to go down road of mrt and get refused on technical legal grounds


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## pollygoh2002 (Jan 17, 2014)

Hi Chicken,

Yes, I just emptied out my message box cos I got the message it was full. Sorry about that.
Please go ahead.


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## boycot123 (Apr 16, 2014)

pollygoh2002 said:


> Hi Chicken,
> 
> Yes, I just emptied out my message box cos I got the message it was full. Sorry about that.
> Please go ahead.


How did the meeting go Polly?


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## pollygoh2002 (Jan 17, 2014)

Meeting went okay. MP said once decision is made by DIBP it cannot be reversed but to reapply for visa and MP will back me up at MRT. I am waiting for more information from them.


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## boycot123 (Apr 16, 2014)

pollygoh2002 said:


> Meeting went okay. MP said once decision is made by DIBP it cannot be reversed but to reapply for visa and MP will back me up at MRT. I am waiting for more information from them.


Thats seems to me "THEY DONT CARE".

What did they expect when you went there for a meeting? That you'll home cook food for them? Duh&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;Simply jerk-offs they are. Can't believe they chickened out of it.

They could have at least send a letter even if that won't change a thing but it's a simple gesture of empathising with you, but what did they say&#8230; "Decision can't be changed".

I knew their decision before hand because something happened with me in the past and I've sent them a long email to which they replied: "Stay here in Australia or go back. Your own choice". They didn't say exactly that but that was the gist if it.

What's your next step after such a reply?


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## pollygoh2002 (Jan 17, 2014)

I will talk to a migration agent to represent me/us at MRT I guess.

You are right, being separated from better half is hell!


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## aussiesteve (Mar 16, 2012)

pollygoh2002 said:


> Meeting went okay. MP said once decision is made by DIBP it cannot be reversed but to reapply for visa and MP will back me up at MRT. I am waiting for more information from them.


Had a similar response 25 years ago when I went to my MP for help with our PMV obviously things haven't changed.It is true though that every overseas post is autonomous and responsible for its own decisions and will not bend to outside pressure.
Just get as much information together as possible for your appeal Good Luck


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## boycot123 (Apr 16, 2014)

pollygoh2002 said:


> I will talk to a migration agent to represent me/us at MRT I guess.
> 
> You are right, being separated from better half is hell!


check your inbox


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## masooma (Jun 2, 2014)

pollygoh2002 said:


> We didn't know anything about marriage in Pakistan and certificates.
> We were told later on by brother-in-law that this man is bribing everyone who needs a marriage registration certificate. We refused to pay what he demanded because he was greedy.
> Yes we are making an appeal. We will go to the Migration Review Tribunal, which unfortunately can be another 18 months.
> Being separated from husband is hell. I am lucky I can go over there to visit him.
> Thank you for your wishes.


Hi Polly, It saddens me to read your story. I hope you hear something positive soon. I married a Pakistani guy too. Im not Pakistani but a fiji born Australian. My husband and i decided to marry in court because i didnt have the time to do the traditional thing. I was only there for 12 days. We did have a small reception with some members of his family the day before i was leaving. We didnt have any problems with photo taking. I didnt really find Pakistan as conservative as i thought it was, it was my first visit there. I didnt even wear the traditional clothes, people did stare but that didnt worry me. I did make sure i had a scarf around my shoulders. I think you were just very unlucky and maybe didnt get enough information before you decided to get married as to how the system works there. And bribery is everywhere i noticed. Once they know you are a foreigner they try to get as much as they can out of you. Cant really blame them too much cos life is hard there. Wish you all the best. My husband and i met on skype. We got married couple of days after we met in person. I have known him for nearly 2 years online. People have said here that it was too soon and immigration may question that but in Pakistan you cant just live with someone unless youre married. And we are in love and were talking of marriage for nearly 18 months. Actually my husband and i were sitting in a park just enjoying the fresh air and someone called the police. They thought we had eloped. lol. Scared the hell out of me. Hubby told them i was his wife, they wanted to see papers of our marriage...lol..who takes wedding certificate out walking...told them it was back at the hotel. They let it go..did want money for sweets hubby said come to hotel and he was going to feed them as much sweets as they wanted cos he didnt have money on him. You just have to be clever when dealing with such people.


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## M Sarfraz Niaz (Oct 16, 2013)

Hi, 
You've advised by various intellectual here few options. I would say re-apply, it'll cost u money but surely time can b saved. MRT tends to take a lot time.

Highlighting ur situation & my experience, unfortunately u could substantiated ur claim. Nikkah Nama itself is enough, it's only issued after registration, it's the responsibility of scholar to provide it not urs to get it.

No tradition/religion deprived u taking pictures after u r married so not sending photographs was just unacceptable. There are many things to substantiate ur claim even after marriage.

We love picky on immi but unfortunately they r following set of rules. If you fill their boots u might do same.

Please be patient, cool & assess where u went wrong. Correct it & move on.

No one can deprived u of ur rights here, even Aus high Commission is in Pakistan, it doesn't mean u'll be treated differently. If they need a,b,c u need to provide, it seems logical or not but its requirement though.

Please feel free to drop me a line if I could be any helpful.

Good luck & chin up


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## pollygoh2002 (Jan 17, 2014)

Hi, Yes we believed Nikkah Nama was enough but DIBP did not. We did send photos but I was in a shalwar kameez, not in a white wedding dress (western style). We will be patient and assess where we went wrong and will correct it with the MRT,


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## pollygoh2002 (Jan 17, 2014)

Hi Masooma, we had a very quiet, Pathan-style wedding, Imam + two male witnesses. I wore a shalwar kameez at the wedding and afterwards. 
Nikkah Nama was not enough for DIBP. Difficulty to get MRC has caused a lot of problems. We are still fighting the court battle to get the MRC. Court battle started at end of April 2014. The bribery wasn't that simple. Secretary wanted my husband's mobile phone and he has a reputation for continuing the bribery, according to others we spoke to.
Add to these problems we had an agent who was not very helpful and actually hindered our case.


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## masooma (Jun 2, 2014)

pollygoh2002 said:


> Hi, Yes we believed Nikkah Nama was enough but DIBP did not. We did send photos but I was in a shalwar kameez, not in a white wedding dress (western style). We will be patient and assess where we went wrong and will correct it with the MRT,


Shalwar kameez should be fine because that is the traditional wedding attire for Pakistani girls.


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## Amandy (Sep 16, 2009)

Starting to get scared. I didn't even have a wedding. It was just paperwork, even our witnesses were from the street, vegas style! Lol. 
Oops. 
But we live together and have a baby together so hope that's ok.
Sorry about about your rejected visa. I would be furious. Because it's only the security checks that take this long, the other paperwork is done before it's sent off for security check and ticked off in a number of minutes.


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## pollygoh2002 (Jan 17, 2014)

I attended an Elvis Presley style wedding in Las Vegas and know exactly what you mean.


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## masooma (Jun 2, 2014)

Amandy said:


> Starting to get scared. I didn't even have a wedding. It was just paperwork, even our witnesses were from the street, vegas style! Lol.
> Oops.
> But we live together and have a baby together so hope that's ok.
> Sorry about about your rejected visa. I would be furious. Because it's only the security checks that take this long, the other paperwork is done before it's sent off for security check and ticked off in a number of minutes.


Ours was sort of the same, witnesses were people who worked in the courthouse. We did have a small family gathering the day i left Pakistan.
We didnt have a proper wedding too....didnt have too much time to prepare for traditional wedding


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## pollygoh2002 (Jan 17, 2014)

I believe it's a matter of personal taste. I, for one, do not like formality. 

I would much rather sit in the sand on a beach eating fish and chips, than have to dress up to go to a fancy restaurant, and eat French-sounding food names. But everyone is different I guess.

Don't worry too much about your quiet weddings. That is your choice!


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