# Australia under new management !!!



## Zamaussie (Jan 16, 2012)

Whats your thoughts about Tonny's government in relation to our visas !!"


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

It would be quite awhile before if or when we see any changes, but really would not hold my breath on that one! They need to clear all the refugees that are waiting in detention centres, which could take resources away from other visas ie. partner visas. However, once they are cleared that could free up some resources for the partner visas within in Australia ie. case officers and ASIO.

Also the other thing that there is talk that there will be alot of public servants being sacked. Which department they will come from, who knows? They might even sack any from DIAC, no body knows. When liberal got voted in, in Queensland alot of people I know that lost their jobs were on contract work and not permanent employees. My guess is that when they are looking at sacking someone they will look at the non-ongoings first as with the permanent employees it costs them more money because they need to be paid money for each year of service.


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## Zamaussie (Jan 16, 2012)

Yea that makes sense.


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

I've spoken with Scott Morrison, who is expected to be the new immigration minister, and find him to be a very down-to-earth, practical person. I think we'll see far less "politics" involved in the immigration program, and needless to say the unions won't be playing sock-puppet with the new government, so anti-immigrant stunts like the 457 "crackdown" will hopefully not be repeated. The Liberal party is pro-business, and I hope that means a more balanced approach to employer sponsored and skilled immigration, and an end to the smears against foreign workers we've seen over the last 6 months. 

I also hope that Scott will do what he can to help solve some of the processing problems at DIAC, especially the blow-out in the time it takes to process onshore visas such as partner visas. Once the system is not swamped with refugee visa applicants, I'm hopeful we'll see a return to more reasonable processing times.

Best,

Mark Northam


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## Zamaussie (Jan 16, 2012)

Thanks Mark for the infor !


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## Nelly87 (Jul 3, 2011)

MarkNortham said:


> The Liberal party is pro-business, and I hope that means a more balanced approach to employer sponsored and skilled immigration, and an end to the smears against foreign workers we've seen over the last 6 months.


Aside from my own political views, I can't believe I didn't think of this - it's obvious. Liberals would probably end up helping the skilled immigration quite a bit, whatever 'helping' means, considering the fairly business/profit-driven liberal view.

I've been wondering all day what this will mean for us - us being all of us on this forum, but also specifically "us" partners. I can't seem to predict if this change will have an effect on partner visas. They _are_ less profitable in the long run I presume, but might they suffer?



MarkNortham said:


> I also hope that Scott will do what he can to help solve some of the processing problems at DIAC, especially the blow-out in the time it takes to process onshore visas such as partner visas. Once the system is not swamped with refugee visa applicants, I'm hopeful we'll see a return to more reasonable processing times.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Mark Northam


It is good to hear this from someone who knows who they are talking about. Everything comes at a price, though, and I am curious to see how he will speed up the processing time - because a way to do this is to simply influence a lesser number of applications, is it not? Making higher standards for applicants means less applications means faster processing. Do you think there is a chance this may happen?

I have to be honest, the Australian political system is very confusing to me. I also have to admit I have not very much tried to clear up that confusion, considering I don't even know if I'll ever be allowed to vote here... I do not want to get my hopes up. If I am let in I will be as politically involved as I was in the Netherlands, which is quite involved. This system looks confusing to me because it strikes me as two-party like in the US, but I know it's not the same.


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

Nelly87 said:


> I have to be honest, the Australian political system is very confusing to me. I also have to admit I have not very much tried to clear up that confusion, considering I don't even know if I'll ever be allowed to vote here... I do not want to get my hopes up. If I am let in I will be as politically involved as I was in the Netherlands, which is quite involved. This system looks confusing to me because it strikes me as two-party like in the US, but I know it's not the same.


You need to be an Australian citizen to vote.


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

Hi Nelly -

My thought is that a new government will want to try and cut the "red tape" and introduce more efficiency into DIAC's operation - that's a general theme of the Liberal party. As to the comparison with the US, it's quite different - especially given the "preferences" system that essentially is an allocation scheme for what's done with the votes for candidates - google this to learn more and prepare to study it a bit!

As for partner visas, I hope DIAC will finally implement online partner visa applications as as been long-promised. My question, though, is whether we will see an English requirement introduced into the partner and fiance visa scheme - my guess is that there is at least a 50% chance of this under the new government. Scott Morrison has made it clear that he believes one of the most important factors in a person's ability to assimilate into Australian culture is a working ability of English, and he's also said that as a person stays here over time, evidence of an improvement in English ability is something he believes is important in order to be able to assimilate effectively into Australian culture.

Hope this helps - should be an interesting time over the next 12 months!

Best,

Mark Northam


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## Nelly87 (Jul 3, 2011)

Hi Mark!

Thank you for the explanation! From your knowledge do you think there is a chance Liberal would consider a system where Australian partner-sponsors would have to have a certain income to bring in a partner? We have this policy in The Netherlands (I would have to have a permanent contract and make more than minimum wage, and have been in the position for over a year to be able to bring in a partner) and it stemmed from our liberal party. Though "liberal" in one country can be different from "liberal" in another country, and obviously they fit differently into different societies and economies.

Mish - thanks for your response  I realized I need to be a citizen I just meant I don't know if I will ever be a citizen considering we're still awaiting our 820 Temporary Partner verdict! I do not want to get my hopes up of ever being able to vote before we're even through the first stage.


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

Hard to say re: partner income requirement. It's hard to implement requirements that, if not met, would essentially force the sponsor to leave Australia to be with his/her partner - that's counterproductive. Liberal in Australia is somewhat akin to the meaning in the UK, and is opposite to the meaning in the USA.

Best,

Mark Northam


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## CollegeGirl (Nov 10, 2012)

MarkNortham said:


> Liberal in Australia is somewhat akin to the meaning in the UK, and is *opposite to the meaning in the USA*.


Boy, is THAT the truth! Hahaha. If I am lucky enough to get to live in Australia, it will take me a long time to figure out that when they are talking about the Liberal Party, they are talking about the opposite of what I'm thinking of!


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## img68 (May 7, 2013)

And what a new management!! 
Sad day for civil rights and environment.


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## Xyzaus (Jun 17, 2013)

Can the fees for partner visa get any cheaper?


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## Adventuress (Jan 8, 2012)

MarkNortham said:


> Hard to say re: partner income requirement. It's hard to implement requirements that, if not met, would essentially force the sponsor to leave Australia to be with his/her partner - that's counterproductive.


I thought the UK's Foreign Office had already implemented such a system in the past couple of years? Minimum annual salary of 23,000 pounds or something similar. There was a lot of hubbub - and rightly so - about the fact that the government was "exiling" its citizens in order for them to be able to live with their chosen partners/families overseas - some cases went through the courts. I have been watching the Australian Immigration trends worriedly for something like this to be brought into our own system.


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

From my point of view, anything's better than the trade unions causing the government to "crack down" on prospective skilled immigrants in order to force businesses to deal with the unions and hire a local who may not be as well qualified because there's too much government red tape involved with hiring a better-qualified overseas employee. Australia is going to have to decide exactly how protectionist it is going to be in its skilled immigration policy, and in my view things were heading in a very bad direction prior to this election. The amount of red tape and limitations that had been introduced to the 457 program as a result of union pressure (not to mention million-dollar union advertising programs attacking the entire 457 visa program) was simply wrong and unfair. I hope we'll see some balance return to that program so that hiring a foreign worker on a 457 or skilled visa doesn't become a monstrous paperwork exercise designed to frighten or intimidate businesses or workers away.

Best,

Mark Northam


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## amccarron (Aug 15, 2013)

Seeing as the government and it's departments have been in caretaker mode since the election was announced and most agencies have been holding most work until after the election. I hope we see some more action as it has been pretty slow for the past couple of months. Not many approvals and correspondence of late it would seem.


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## pawandhir (Aug 12, 2013)

Hii mark..
In ur view is Libral good for 457 visa holders? Is they make ENS easy? What change they can do in coming time??


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

Hi -

Hard to say at this point, but I believe the Liberal party is more pro-business than Labor, and the Liberal party is not at the beck and call of the trade unions, as Labor seems to be at times. Both of these would point towards a more pro-business immigration policy, which may be good news to 457 and other employer-sponsored visa programmes. Time will tell...

Best,

Mark Northam


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## nadam (Jan 8, 2013)

MarkNortham said:


> My question, though, is whether we will see an English requirement introduced into the partner and fiance visa scheme - my guess is that there is at least a 50% chance of this under the new government. Scott Morrison has made it clear that he believes one of the most important factors in a person's ability to assimilate into Australian culture is a working ability of English, and he's also said that as a person stays here over time, evidence of an improvement in English ability is something he believes is important in order to be able to assimilate effectively into Australian culture.


Sounds like a remnant of the White Australia Policy.


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## GBP (Jun 1, 2013)

nadam said:


> Sounds like a remnant of the White Australia Policy.


I think it is realistic and practical. Just my two cents.


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## nadam (Jan 8, 2013)

I agree that it is practical, but making it a 'requirement', and potentially rejecting applicants with a low level of English - well, I just don't like the sound of that at all.


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

Hi Nadam -

I understand completely - it will be interesting to see how the new government applies its philosophy to the immigration side of things -

Best,

Mark Northam


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## dunan (Oct 5, 2012)

Mish said:


> You need to be an Australian citizen to vote.


Not if you hold a British passport and are a Permanent Resident!


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## Adventuress (Jan 8, 2012)

GBP said:


> I think it is realistic and practical. Just my two cents.


It may be realistic to expect a person's English to improve as they spend more time in Australia, but it is entirely impractical to expect someone from a non-English-speaking country to arrive in Australia already with functional English. For one, it is very difficult to achieve a functional level in any language solely through education and no immersive experience (i.e. extensive practice with native speakers), and for two, in many countries language "education" consist solely of ROTE learning and memorisation and results in no real-life practical skills in the language whatsoever. Let's not forget that for some people access to such education - whatever its real worth - is difficult or even impossible (the cost and distance, for example).

Such a policy would indeed go back to the White Australia days - it would quite effectively keep out most people who hail from less economically-developed countries, which as a rule do not have the facilities or the infrastructure to provide high quality language education - and in which people are way too poor to treat themselves to some immersive experience in the English-speaking world. People learn languages much better when they're totally immersed and have no choice but to learn how to communicate in order to have their needs met.

On a side note, I can hardly imagine your typical Australian, if faced with a move to a non-English-speaking country, being able to muster a single intelligible sentence in the language of their destination. If an Australian fell in love with someone in a non-English-speaking background, decided to move to their partner's country, and was faced with a stringent language exam to get in, I can very easily imagine that there would be cries of not getting a "fair go". English may have been the flavour of last century, but that is predicted to change in the next few decades as the Chinese and Indians get a stronger foothold on the world stage.


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

Good points, however stringent English requirements have been part of the student, skilled and employer sponsored visa system in Australia for a long time. Thanks to the union-directed "457 crackdown", English requirements have been added to almost all 457 visa applicants. The family, visitor and refugee areas are the only ones generally that don't have an English requirement at the moment.

Best,

Mark Northam


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## Adventuress (Jan 8, 2012)

Thanks Mark, yes I realise that's the case for those visas - which have English requirements for perfectly logical reasons (one can't study or work here successfully without the language) - but I was speaking from the perspective of family visas: it would be draconian to expect family of Australians - especially partners - to be proficient in English prior to being allowed to immigrate in order to join their partners/families.


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

I agree. Interestingly with the skilled visa program, if a partner cannot meet "functional English" (typically IELTS overall score of 4.5), then they can still be granted a visa but must pay an "English Education" charge of over $4,000. I wonder if that may be the methodology for any further English requirements introduced into the family stream...?

Best,

Mark Northam


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## Adventuress (Jan 8, 2012)

Glad we agree 

My mind has been on the same track as yours regarding the no-English penalty - I am certain that this is on the cards in our near future for partner visas. Again, and as is the case with the massive base fee increases for partner visas in the past year alone, it would be a return to the White Australia days, just through a different mechanism: money. Hit 'em where it hurts, or, make it impossible for people from less economically-developed countries to apply. Boy am I glad that my husband and I got in just in time - had we missed our chance, there is no way he would have been able to immigrate at all, and I would have been stuck in Jordan effectively forever in order to stay with him.


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## hessbag (Nov 7, 2012)

I totally agree and am concerned about future changes as well. I am an Australian living in Ecuador, saving money for the Visa Fee with my Ecuadorian partner, and the recent cost increases have really set back our move to Australia. I agree with Adventuress that these recent changes have been implemented to make it impossible for people from economically-disadvantaged countries to apply. If the government introduces a salary requirement for the sponsor many people will not be able to migrate.
It is really difficult to learn English, or any language, and for many people classes are too expensive, especially if you are trying to save for visas and plane tickets at the same time. Here in Ecuador, the cheaper classes are normally taught by teachers with a low level of English themselves, and students will never reach a high level in this environment. We are lucky that my boyfriend speaks an intermediate level of English, and I am an English teacher, but not everyone has this luxury. 
Glad you got in Adventuress!


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## img68 (May 7, 2013)

Adventuress said:


> Thanks Mark, yes I realise that's the case for those visas - which have English requirements for perfectly logical reasons (one can't study or work here successfully without the language) - but I was speaking from the perspective of family visas: it would be draconian to expect family of Australians - especially partners - to be proficient in English prior to being allowed to immigrate in order to join their partners/families.


I totally agree!!
Yes infamous White australia Policy is the first thing that came into my mind.
And the increase in cost is simply discriminatory. As the salary requirement.
This is racism disguised as efficency.. 
If you are rich, coming from a non risk country and with good education, the doors of Australian Eden are open, if not, stay out. 
So, why am I still waiting out after 6 months? I should be already in!!


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## Becky26 (Jun 18, 2013)

img68 said:


> If you are rich, coming from a non risk country and with good education, the doors of Australian Eden are open, if not, stay out.
> So, why am I still waiting out after 6 months? I should be already in!!


Agree with you!!!!!!

People from low risk countries like US, UK, Canada, etc usually have the visa processed in about 3-4 months. 
They are very lucky that their countries are categorized under low-risk countries, that they don't have to wait for their visas for 2 years or longer and don't have to go through 10 million security checks. 
While on the other hand someone who comes from a high-risk country like myself who has never had a tiniest criminal record in my entire life both in India and in Australia, no medical complications, no relationship complications have to go through so many checks like I am some kind of a terrorist/criminal. 
While the others have it all sorted out for them.

No trying to hate on anyone, its just something that makes me think everyday why does someone has to wait for 24 months or longer to re-unite with their husband or wife/ boyfriend or girlfriend just because they are from a high-risk country.

This is not fair. There is no transparency in this department knowing the fact that so many people have their futures hanging in the air because of the DIAC delays/backlogs and all that kind of crap.

DIAC is the first department where there should be changes in management/ more people should be employed to get rid of this so called "Backlog". 
Obviously the government charges the applicants such a high fees but the services provided are so utterly bad. This department is pumping in so much money into the Australian economy and still there are not enough employees/COs to process applications and families are suffering due to this.

I just hope all these issues get solved with this new management. People don't have to wait for years and years to spend a normal, worry-free life with their loved ones and kids.

Kind Regards and Best Wishes,
Becky


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## shingle (Sep 30, 2012)

"_While on the other hand someone who comes from a high-risk country like myself who has never had a tiniest criminal record in my entire life both in India and in Australia, no medical complications, no relationship complications have to go through so many checks like I am some kind of a terrorist/criminal.
While the others have it all sorted out for them."
_
while I agree with you on the need for more staff to process applications which might help speed up the process for some visa categories at least. I have to disagree on this, which is a pretty sweeping statement.

We all go through the same checks- my PCC/meds will be just as stringent as yours, (even though I can guarantee you my visa will cost 10x yours  but high-risk countries are well-known for delays in feedback- again it's pressure of time & resources. Just think how many people apply for visas year on year- in fairness you could never have enough staff- & obviously they can only process those they've received results for ! You're not being thought of as a criminal any more than any of us are - it's just a process that takes its own sweet time .
Wish mine only took a few months though


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## shingle (Sep 30, 2012)

img68 said:


> I totally agree!!
> Yes infamous White australia Policy is the first thing that came into my mind.
> And the increase in cost is simply discriminatory. As the salary requirement.
> This is racism disguised as efficency..
> ...


omg I can hardly believe you wrote all that- it's inflammatory  high cost of visa = Racism & White Australia Policy? we all pay the same for visas.

why on earth do you want to emigrate to a country you have such a low opinion of?


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## Becky26 (Jun 18, 2013)

shingle said:


> "_While on the other hand someone who comes from a high-risk country like myself who has never had a tiniest criminal record in my entire life both in India and in Australia, no medical complications, no relationship complications have to go through so many checks like I am some kind of a terrorist/criminal.
> While the others have it all sorted out for them."
> _
> while I agree with you on the need for more staff to process applications which might help speed up the process for some visa categories at least. I have to disagree on this, which is a pretty sweeping statement.
> ...


Hi there,

I mean no disrespect to anyone whatsoever. It was how I feel. I know some low risk applicants get stuck with these security checks like the ones from a high-risk country.



Becky26 said:


> Agree with you!!!!!!
> 
> People from low risk countries like US, UK, Canada, etc usually have the visa processed in about 3-4 months.


But as per what I wrote in my above post, I mentioned "usually" which leaves the margin of some of the applicants from a low-risk country getting stuck with these security checks. But again most of the time, visa processing time period in comparison to a low-risk country is ridiculous.

Just because someone is from a high-risk country, the security checks become ten times as tough as they already are doesn't matter if they have a clear record.
Client Service Charter
Look at the difference.
Also if you have a look at the family timelines of individuals, low-risk countries visa applicant's get approved much quicker as compared to someone from a high-risk country.

Anyways, I wish everyone well and good luck to those who are waiting for their visas.

Kind Regards,
Becky


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## sunnysmile (Oct 13, 2011)

shingle said:


> but high-risk countries are well-known for delays in feedback- again it's pressure of time & resources


I can not agree with you that "high risk" (or however they call countries that they throttle immigration stream) are delaying in feedback. One applicant who applied two weeks before me from the same country, family and background situation as me got his visa 9 months before and I am still waiting for it. So my country is not delaying in feedback. You obviously think that all " high risk" countries use telegraph and Pony express to send informations to ASIO.


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## img68 (May 7, 2013)

shingle said:


> why on earth do you want to emigrate to a country you have such a low opinion of?


I don't have a low opinion. I just have a strong opinion and I expressed in a italian way. 
Maybe you can't see the difference and you are not used to it.
What I said It's very similar to what other people before me wrote.

I can come and live in Australia even if I don't like some aspects of Australian history, culture and society. 
Is a requirement to admire everything (even the things that are wrong for your beliefs) in the country you have to immigrate for family reasons?


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## Becky26 (Jun 18, 2013)

sunnysmile said:


> I can not agree with you that "high risk" (or however they call countries that they throttle immigration stream) are delaying in feedback. One applicant who applied two weeks before me from the same country, family and background situation as me got his visa 9 months before and I am still waiting for it. So my country is not delaying in feedback. You obviously think that all " high risk" countries use telegraph and Pony express to send informations to ASIO.


I am not writing what I think, but what I see happening. Not just on this forum but on others too. Low-risk and high-risk have a great deal of contribution in letting a CO decide if an applicant needs a 6 month long security check or not.

Also the departments who help ASIO get the information in some countries are slow as. It's not that they use telegraph or pony express to send information, the departments take a very long time in providing the security agencies with the relevant information and therefore the estimated time period for a high risk country is 12 months.

There are exceptions in every case. So if an applicant from a high-risk country gets lucky his application gets approval in 5 months while someone from a low risk country gets stuck for much longer than that.

This is my opinion. Not saying it is a fact.

Kind Regards,
Becky


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## sunnysmile (Oct 13, 2011)

Becky26 said:


> Also the departments who help ASIO get the information in some countries are slow as.


And those departments are ASIO's and Australian government departments not "high risk" country's. High risk countries are not doing security checks for ASIO so we can not blame them for lengthy security check as stated above.

After all, you can not just take thousands of dollars for visa fees and blame someone else for what is part of your process and work. You have to take control of all parts of your process and be sure that all parts are working as they should. If there is a flaw you should take action and fix it or adjust it to new needs and changes.


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## CollegeGirl (Nov 10, 2012)

"High risk countries are not doing security checks for ASIO..."

Sunny, hate to disagree, but yes, they are!

I'm not an expert by any means - but from what I've read that IS exactly what happens. 

DIAC do their own checks. They farm it out to ASIO in EVERY case for more thorough security checks. ASIO does their own Australia-specific checks if you've ever been in the country. Then they *coordinate with their counterpart government agency* in any country where you've ever lived (or in some cases, just visited) to see what kind of information *that* country has on you. With some countries, they can use electronic systems to share information almost instantaneously and they get the information they need quickly. With others, they can't make the request electronically. They must send the request and then wait. Some countries may not share information electronically, but may have the information stored on electronic systems and be able to turn it around and get it to ASIO fairly quickly. Still others have the capability, but not the staff to handle all the requests, which means it takes forever. And yes, there are countries where everything is done on paper, and things are not easily organized or files are lost. Then it can take months and months to locate your record and get it to ASIO. 

Yes, there can be a delay caused by ASIO here and there - it happens - but continual audits of that agency have demonstrated time and time again that it is not that agency holding up the security check process. It's the fact that once they contact that other country's intelligence organization for information on you, they can do nothing but wait until that other country responds. 

I'm sure ASIO probably does do more intense, in-depth investigations into applicants from high-risk countries (again, using information they have or can obtain AND information directly from THAT country's government)... but why wouldn't they? It's not that you're a criminal, or that you're being looked at as a criminal. It's simply that, for example, if you know that people from certain countries are much more statistically likely to have come in contact with tuberculosis, you're going to require a more in-depth medical examination for those people. It's not discriminatory, it's simply using risk assessment to determine who gets looked at more closely. They are trying to protect their own country's citizens. It's hard to find fault in that.

And I say that as someone whose medical issues could very well keep her out of Australia because of the financial risk assessment they do. 

I understand your frustration - I REALLY do. I have been apart from my fiance, with the exception of a two-week holiday, for three years now! It's awful. Only 11 months of that is immigration-related (5 months for my visa, 6 months extra that his PR took beyond what it was supposed to take to process, and we couldn't apply until he got it). I may not completely know what it's like to walk in your shoes - no one can - but to some degree, I DO understand. 

In your shoes I'd be looking for someone, anyone to blame, to be angry at because they were holding things up. And ASIO is the easiest target since they're the ones in charge of security clearances. I just think the anger is misplaced. 

I mean, I have no horse in this race. The only reason I care about the right place getting the blame for delays is simple: The only time I have ever, ever seen anyone successfully speed up their own security checks when they had waited an abnormal amount of time, it was by putting pressure on their home country's agencies. Obviously, one case is not a pattern. But it's the only case where I've seen an applicant have any success in helping push their external checks through, and it does help to validate that what I've read is correct regarding how ASIO and external checks function.


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## sunnysmile (Oct 13, 2011)

As I said more than once, I know and agree that every country has all rights and should check who comes over its border but they should do it in timely manner. What I said in above post (sorry, English is not my mother language) is that they ( DIAC, government department) can not include security checks in their process (for which they take large amount of fees) and blame other countries and other country agencies for not doing their work. They should fix their assessment technology and all parts of the process to ensure every information needed comes back in normal time. You can not just take money and not give what you advertised. Expecting of us applicants to believe and accept that 2 years for example is just normal time for security checks is ridiculous.

I just said what is on my mind but I promised myself not to be involved in any debate about visa and stuff. In this 15 months my blood pressure rose on 175/110 and if you consider my relative young age of late thirties I should be very careful with my health. That is one of the side effects of this whole process.


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## CollegeGirl (Nov 10, 2012)

How can DIAC have control over how long other countries take to return information to them?


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## Theoilman (Mar 17, 2013)

as much as I don't like Abbott or the LNP (not that I like Labor any better really), they probably will eventually make it easier for 457 visas and skilled immigration. but likely nothing at all will get done before they figure out if they're going to a double dissolution or not.


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## Theoilman (Mar 17, 2013)

Becky26 said:


> People from low risk countries like US, UK, Canada, etc usually have the visa processed in about 3-4 months.


I don't know about the UK or Canada, but the US does not process visas for immigration quickly. It took my wife and I over a year to get her green card processed, and we have friends who have waited just as long with more issues than we had. people do sometimes get processed that fast in the US, but I hear of people in Australia getting processed that fast too.


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## CollegeGirl (Nov 10, 2012)

Becky meant that people FROM the US get their Australian visas processed that quickly. 

That's not quite true, either, though. The Philippines sees an average of 3-4 months, but the US is 5-6 months or more. Still, her point, that high-risk countries take a lot longer, is quite true.


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## Becky26 (Jun 18, 2013)

CollegeGirl said:


> Still, her point, that high-risk countries take a lot longer, is quite true.


Hey CollegeGirl,

Yes, all I was trying to say was that the time frame of partner visa processing offshore for a high risk country is ridiculously high.

I apologize if some of the numbers in my previous post weren't accurate.

Glad you understood what I meant 
Thanks a lot!

Kind Regards,
Becky


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## Nelly87 (Jul 3, 2011)

Becky26 said:


> Agree with you!!!!!!
> 
> People from low risk countries like US, UK, Canada, etc usually have the visa processed in about 3-4 months.
> They are very lucky that their countries are categorized under low-risk countries, that they don't have to wait for their visas for 2 years or longer and don't have to go through 10 million security checks.
> ...


To be fair - and this is just a feeling, I could be dead wrong - the low risk countries you mentioned are all *English* speaking countries as well. I'm from a low-risk country (The Netherlands, applying onshore) and I have the impression that my country of origin gives me no particular advantage at all (no disadvantage either, still). Most quick grants from fellow low-risk Europeans I have seen pass through here were British.

That said the 8 months waiting so far (could be much worse, I know!) might slowly be making me paranoid.

I think we all face particular challenges in this process - high risk countries more so than low risk - but it is not the only challenge. I can be as low risk as I want, my partner is unemployed (being my sponsor) and we live with his parents (no joint bills in our names). Is that not as unfair, that people with less financial resources (even though one is low-risk and one is Australian!) are also guilty until proven innocent? We live with his parents while he recovers from an injury and we are saving up from my stable income to eventually buy a house so we don't have to rent - we feel fortunate and wealthy to have this chance! But to DIAC it would look "lacking".

The other day I saw a man on Facebook who had his profile splashed full of messages like "I come from a poverty country, if you take me as your husband I will buy my own ticket if you help me come to your country" - and stuff like _that_ is why the partner visa system is so unevenly distributed, it made me sad. I understand why someone would want out of poverty, the world isn't fair, at the same rate this makes the system even more unbalanced and problematic for those who _are_ in love.

So with that said, the state of humanity is hurting my brain, I need more coffee.


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## CollegeGirl (Nov 10, 2012)

Actually, Nelly, if it makes you feel better, average processing time for the UK is 8-9 months, and they're very stringent there about not granting early. They will tell people straight out that their case is finalized and ready but they can't grant until they hit the 8 month mark. Occasionally people get through faster, but it doesn't happen often. 

The fastest grants come from the Philippines - definitely not an English-speaking country.


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## Nelly87 (Jul 3, 2011)

CollegeGirl said:


> Actually, Nelly, if it makes you feel better, average processing time for the UK is 8-9 months, and they're very stringent there about not granting early. They will tell people straight out that their case is finalized and ready but they can't grant until they hit the 8 month mark. Occasionally people get through faster, but it doesn't happen often.
> 
> The fastest grants come from the Philippines - definitely not an English-speaking country.


Wow really?! I didn't know about the 8 month thing! To be honest I pay more attention to onshore than offshore, the process seems so radically different even though it is supposed to be exactly the same principle.

Actually the "English" mention reminds me (sorry complete subject change!) - I suddenly recall somewhere in this thread was a mention that English language proficiency might be introduced for partner visas - I think that would be a healthy thing for "both sides".

In The Netherlands everyone who wants a permanent visa has to learn Dutch except for people from English speaking countries. My Aussie man felt incredibly isolated while we lived in The Netherlands because he did not understand the language - people would speak to him in English but speak to each other in Dutch, making him unable to learn from practice (Dutch are eager to show off their English skills) and at the same time feel excluded from half the conversation when they were speaking Dutch to each other. He thought it was ridiculous that he wouldn't have had to learn Dutch because it would have kept him on the sidelines of every social situation.


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## Adventuress (Jan 8, 2012)

Hi Nelly, nobody's arguing that it's not necessary for visa holders to learn English once they're in Australia - and we already have a system that supports this: the Adult Migrant English Program (AMEP), funded by DIAC itself, and available to partner visa holders, and recently the new policy for the citizenship test, which can only be taken in English.

But it would be extreme to require partner visa applicants to already have a functional competency in the language in order to even be eligible to apply. Imagine if the Netherlands hadn't wanted to even let your partner into the country if he wasn't already able to express himself in Dutch. Where would that have left you? How long would you have had to be apart while he went to Dutch lessons in Australia, trying to achieve a basic proficiency with no native Dutch speakers to talk or listen to? I would say years.

This is our issue: that proficiency in English at the time of application may soon become a condition of eligibility for partner visas, and that this would be completely unrealistic and lead to many couples being forced apart for something that could be best rectified only inside Australia.


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## dunan (Oct 5, 2012)

There is a much broader picture here away from the love relationship....the failure to communicate and write in basic English has immence repercussions on the daily life of any migrant....This is why early migrants felt the need to all live in a certain suburb and its still going on today with the latest being from Moslem n African Countries....

Having lived in Melb most of my life, The early Greeks n Italians took over suburbs like Oakleigh. Now they have assimilated perfectly and rarely bring their old cultural issues to the fore...Vietnamese>>Springvale>>Sunshine....Chinese moved around but Glen Waverley is known as Little Bejing.......Today Africans and Balkan nationals >>Dandenong. (Based mainly on same nationality couples)

Language and culture still is the great divide...MY OPINION


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## Nelly87 (Jul 3, 2011)

Adventuress said:


> Hi Nelly, nobody's arguing that it's not necessary for visa holders to learn English once they're in Australia - and we already have a system that supports this: the Adult Migrant English Program (AMEP), funded by DIAC itself, and available to partner visa holders, and recently the new policy for the citizenship test, which can only be taken in English.
> 
> But it would be extreme to require partner visa applicants to already have a functional competency in the language in order to even be eligible to apply. Imagine if the Netherlands hadn't wanted to even let your partner into the country if he wasn't already able to express himself in Dutch. Where would that have left you? How long would you have had to be apart while he went to Dutch lessons in Australia, trying to achieve a basic proficiency with no native Dutch speakers to talk or listen to? I would say years.
> 
> This is our issue: that proficiency in English at the time of application may soon become a condition of eligibility for partner visas, and that this would be completely unrealistic and lead to many couples being forced apart for something that could be best rectified only inside Australia.


Oh I agree with you... I guess I had the Dutch system in mind, where the Dutch lessons are included in The Netherlands for the immigrants. I certainly would not vote for people who are not fluent never being allowed in to learn it, why would I want that? In the Dutch system the basic proficiency test comes with the lessons - let me rephrase then: the migrants are not expected to be able to pass a Dutch test, they are expected to complete and pass a Dutch course. (Edit: this is for the permanent step, not the initial temporary).

In that sense I feel it is important it is included. I would never want to stand in the way of other couples... all I care about is that the relationship is genuine.


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## pawandhir (Aug 12, 2013)

Hii all
Mr Scott Morrison declare new Immigration Minister. Is this good news for 457 visa holders? Is they make ENS easy? Is anyone have idea whats new changes coming in next few days?? I think Mr Mark have knowledge about this.
Regards


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

Hi All -

I, like everyone, can only guess at what will be happning, but my guess is that the new government will be more pro-business which means a good chance they will perhaps consider less restrictions on the 457 and ENS/RSMS visas. Will they make these visas "easy"? Nope. But given the mountain of new requirements for the 457 enacted on 1 July, we can only hope that the new govt will consider stabilising the system rather than continuing to pile more and more requirements on visa applicants and their employers.

Best,

Mark Northam


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## tamilope (Feb 22, 2013)

Aside from the effect with immigration requirements, can we look at the angle of jobs and employment.

Would job availability increase or decrease(overall economic activity)?

Tamilope


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## immi_aus (Oct 4, 2013)

Dear Mark 

Please help me in this matter.

I recently got invitation for visa 489.Now I have to apply for visa.My spouse is intermediate (Grade 12 passed).

I just want to know that to prove functional English of my spouse can I show letter from primary and secondary school that medium of instruction is English?

Please help me in this matter.

Thankyou


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

Hi Immi-Aus

Thanks for the note. You should carefully review the Functional English guidelines here:

Functional English

Unfortunately the "all English instruction" refers only to trade qualifications, diplomas or higher (Bachelor, Masters), and does not include primary and secondary school , so a letter from primary/secondary schools would not suffice. Since the IELTS requirement is 4.5 overall, it may be better to take the test and satisfy it that way depending on your situation.

Hope this helps -

Best,

Mark Northam


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## Kindred (Jul 18, 2013)

CollegeGirl said:


> Becky meant that people FROM the US get their Australian visas processed that quickly.
> 
> That's not quite true, either, though. The Philippines sees an average of 3-4 months, but the US is 5-6 months or more. Still, her point, that high-risk countries take a lot longer, is quite true.


Hi!
Am new in the forum and am about to lodge my visa 189 application. I got curious about the discussion about high or low- risk countries. Now that Philippines ( of which am a citizen ) had been mentioned, am even more interested to ask if it is considered as high risk? Does that mean It takes longer for security check? Also, based on the checklist for documents to be submitted for lodging 189, none is mentioned about form 80. When do I have to upload this form?

Thanks you in advance for your response!


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## GBP (Jun 1, 2013)

Kindred said:


> Hi!
> Am new in the forum and am about to lodge my visa 189 application. I got curious about the discussion about high or low- risk countries. Now that Philippines ( of which am a citizen ) had been mentioned, am even more interested to ask if it is considered as high risk? Does that mean It takes longer for security check? Also, based on the checklist for documents to be submitted for lodging 189, none is mentioned about form 80. When do I have to upload this form?
> 
> Thanks you in advance for your response!


I think this discussion is more about the partner visa (300, 309 & 820) rather than 189. So, form 80 might not be relevant to your application.


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## eleanor (Apr 27, 2013)

Becky26 said:


> Agree with you!!!!!!
> 
> People from low risk countries like US, UK, Canada, etc usually have the visa processed in about 3-4 months.
> They are very lucky that their countries are categorized under low-risk countries, that they don't have to wait for their visas for 2 years or longer and don't have to go through 10 million security checks.
> ...


 i agree with every thing you said, but i did hear our new so called leader say{this is our country and we will determine who comes here} so now you know how this man thinks.


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## goldfish (Oct 5, 2013)

Please Eleanor , spare me your LNP bashing , we have just endured six years of incompetent and incompetent labor , that has clogged processing channels with thousands of illegal and undocumented invaders . Coalition is in power for a very short time and i am sure will do its best to speed up the process and clean up this enormous mess left by greens and labor. Please keep your labor/green bias to yourself.


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## danegirl (Sep 15, 2013)

goldfish said:


> Please Eleanor , spare me your LNP bashing , we have just endured six years of incompetent and incompetent labor , that has clogged processing channels with thousands of *illegal* and undocumented invaders . Coalition is in power for a very short time and i am sure will do its best to speed up the process and clean up this enormous mess left by greens and labor. Please keep your labor/green bias to yourself.


At the risk of going off topic - despite what Tony Abbott says, it's not illegal to seek asylum.

Back on topic: first new change to the immigration process that I've heard under the new government: Work rules relaxed for foreign students | News.com.au

Based on this, I'm foreseeing a more relaxed attitude to work-related visas, but I'm still not sure as to how it will affect other visa streams.


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## goldfish (Oct 5, 2013)

At the risk of going off topic - despite what Tony Abbott says, it's not illegal to seek asylum. 
Where you like it or not LNP are now in government and will work towards speedier processing of persons who do the right thing by applying through correct channels and playing by the rules. There are millions of people wanting asylum in camps all over the world wanting to come here but do not have the money to pay people smugglers , I am completely supporting the immigration policies of the coalition government.


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## danegirl (Sep 15, 2013)

goldfish said:


> Where you like it or not LNP are now in government and will work towards speedier processing of persons who do the right thing by applying through correct channels and playing by the rules. There are millions of people wanting asylum in camps all over the world wanting to come here but do not have the money to pay people smugglers , I am completely supporting the immigration policies of the coalition government.


Look, I certainly hope you are right about speedier processing - I was simply pointing out a pet peeve of mine.


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## goldfish (Oct 5, 2013)

I hope i am right too , we have been waining for PMV for almost 15 month with labor in charge , so now you see where this intense dislike of them comes from. Immigration department officials strongly hinted that delays are caused by the huge workload processing tens of thousands of undocumented arrivals .


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## eleanor (Apr 27, 2013)

thank you gold fish ,and just like you ,if i have some thing to say then i will say it,and if i offend you well tough titties, and for the record i was not bashing the greens or the labor party at all, i was just quoting what our new leader said, but now you have brought up labor bashing i will say one thing , we almost elected an absolute idiot with mark lathem, this time we went all the way. have a nice day.


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## rhirhi (Apr 14, 2013)

goldfish said:


> Please Eleanor , spare me your LNP bashing , we have just endured six years of incompetent and incompetent labor , that has clogged processing channels with thousands of illegal and undocumented invaders . Coalition is in power for a very short time and i am sure will do its best to speed up the process and clean up this enormous mess left by greens and labor. Please keep your labor/green bias to yourself.
> 
> At the risk of going off topic - despite what Tony Abbott says, it's not illegal to seek asylum.
> Where you like it or not LNP are now in government and will work towards speedier processing of persons who do the right thing by applying through correct channels and playing by the rules. There are millions of people wanting asylum in camps all over the world wanting to come here but do not have the money to pay people smugglers , I am completely supporting the immigration policies of the coalition government.


Goldfish, I love this!

I don't have a problem with asylum seekers but i think they need to go it about the right way. Like Goldfish said, when they arrive illegally (yes, illegally meaning they arrive with no visa) then they are put into a camp which overflow's, meaning these people have to be processed faster than the people who have done the right thing are desperately waiting in their country for a humanitarian visa.... I realise it's a terrible situation but it's not fair that people who can afford to pay these despicable people smugglers thousands of dollars should get their visa first.


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## GBP (Jun 1, 2013)

Asylum seekers wanted boob and Botox jobs, doctor says

So, asylum seeker...?


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## danegirl (Sep 15, 2013)

rhirhi said:


> Goldfish, I love this!
> 
> I don't have a problem with asylum seekers but i think they need to go it about the right way. Like Goldfish said, when they arrive illegally (yes, illegally meaning they arrive with no visa)....


I understand the frustration with the situation. Really I do. But it is not going to change the fact that you are absolutely 100% wrong in saying that they arrive illegally. Yes, they arrive without a visa and in any other situation, it would be illegal. However, Australian law permits unauthorised entry for the purposes of seeking asylum, regardless of whether a person holds valid identity or travel documents. That is fact.

Source:

(1) Asylum seekers and refugees | Australian Human Rights Commission

(2) Are asylum seekers who arrive by boat illegal immigrants? | Factsheets | Go Back to Where You Came From | SBS

I am more than happy to provide the exact international and domestic law if anyone is interested.


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## rhirhi (Apr 14, 2013)

danegirl said:


> I understand the frustration with the situation. Really I do. But it is not going to change the fact that you are absolutely 100% wrong in saying that they arrive illegally. Yes, they arrive without a visa and in any other situation, it would be illegal. However, Australian law permits unauthorised entry for the purposes of seeking asylum, regardless of whether a person holds valid identity or travel documents. That is fact.
> 
> Source:
> 
> ...


Scott Morrison correct on 'illegal entry' of people without a visa - Fact Check - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

"The verdict:
Mr Morrison is correct.

Based on the definition set out in the people smuggling protocol, people who have come to Australia without a valid visa have illegally entered the country.

That is the case even though these people have not committed any crime, nor broken any Australian or international law."


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## Rigs (Jun 29, 2013)

Danegirl, you just don't get it, If they are true Asylum seekers no problems. But 99% are illegal immigrants overloading our system


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## danegirl (Sep 15, 2013)

Rigs said:


> Danegirl, you just don't get it, If they are true Asylum seekers no problems. But 99% are illegal immigrants overloading our system


Oh, I do get it, thank you very much. 90% of people arriving in Australia claiming asylum are found to be true refugees.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...als-deemed-to-be-refugees-20130519-2juty.html



rhirhi said:


> Scott Morrison correct on 'illegal entry' of people without a visa - Fact Check - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
> 
> "The verdict:
> Mr Morrison is correct.
> ...


Forgive me if I don't place much trust in the conclusion of a news corporation funded by the government which is in direct contradiction to all of the information contained within that article. The fact that they refer to the UN Convention on Refugees as the people smuggling convention says it all.

Seriously guys, I understand the frustration behind the idea that "we are doing it the right way". But it isn't helping anyone to cast slurs on people who have been rightly been found to be fleeing persecution.


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## goldfish (Oct 5, 2013)

danegirl said:


> Oh, I do get it, thank you very much. 90% of people arriving in Australia claiming asylum are found to be true refugees.
> 
> Overwhelming majority of boat arrivals deemed to be refugees
> 
> ...


Please do yourself a favor and read some material from Michael Smith site , most if not all of these so called asylum seekers are nothing but economic refugees , after our welfare , they are not persecuted in Indonesia or Malaysia , these who think otherwise are deluding themselves , thanks to coalition government for shutting the doors shut. The country should deside who comes here and why.


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## danegirl (Sep 15, 2013)

goldfish said:


> Please do yourself a favor and read some material from Michael Smith site , most if not all of these so called asylum seekers are nothing but economic refugees , after our welfare , they are not persecuted in Indonesia or Malaysia , these who think otherwise are deluding themselves , thanks to coalition government for shutting the doors shut. The country should deside who comes here and why.


I fail to see the merits of the argument as to why I should give any weight to the subjective opinions of a radio presenter, who would have no access to any of the confidential identity and security data to make such a blatantly untrue and generalised statement which is in direct contradiction to the official decision makers and judiciary of this country who find *90% of asylum seekers to be true refugees who are fleeing religious, ethnic, gender or political persecution in accordance with the UN convention.* Note the lack of "fleeing to find better economic prosperity" in that statement.

Anyway gentlemen and/or ladies, I am bowing out of this debate before I work myself up anymore than I already have. We clearly won't see eye to eye on this issue so let's just agree to disagree, and agree that the election of a new government will only mean better and faster processing times for migrants.


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## goldfish (Oct 5, 2013)

danegirl said:


> I fail to see the merits of the argument as to why I should give any weight to the subjective opinions of a radio presenter, who would have no access to any of the confidential identity and security data to make such a blatantly untrue and generalised statement which is in direct contradiction to the official decision makers and judiciary of this country who find *90% of asylum seekers to be true refugees who are fleeing religious, ethnic, gender or political persecution in accordance with the UN convention.* Note the lack of "fleeing to find better economic prosperity" in that statement.
> 
> Anyway gentlemen and/or ladies, I am bowing out of this debate before I work myself up anymore than I already have. We clearly won't see eye to eye on this issue so let's just agree to disagree, and agree that the election of a new government will only mean better and faster processing times for migrants.


I would not take any notice of what this people conclude , they do not have our countries best interest at heart. I for one would not want to see our cities go the way of Europe , you may be a rusted on labor or greeny supporter , but it is not how most Australians think . And in any case UN convention had outlived its usefulness and should be scraped.


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## rhirhi (Apr 14, 2013)

Danegirl I didn't want to 'argue' about the subject and I respect your opinion. Like I said I don't have a problem with genuine refugees but I think there needs to be something done about what's going on...let's face it Australia isn't like other (perhaps nearer) countries....the conditions alone they have to endure on the boat are horrific....many people sadly die. I think it's right that the government should heavily discourage this approach to seeking asylum in Australia. Not to mention stopping these low life people smugglers. 

All the best


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## GBP (Jun 1, 2013)

As you can see in the news, the most recent boat tragedy, most of the survivors are young adult male, while those perished are mostly women and children who were unable to swim. 

And they blamed Australian government for their loss. But then, who have decided to go on board a very high risk journey with their whole family? Are they being prosecuted in Indonesia? Is there a disaster/war to flee in Indonesia? This got to be stopped before more perish in the sea.


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## danegirl (Sep 15, 2013)

goldfish said:


> I would not take any notice of what this people conclude , they do not have our countries best interest at heart. .


Hang on.. you have applied for a PMV right? These same people will be making the decision on that visa so in that case, I'd certainly hope that you would trust that they make the right decision _in the best interest of our country_...



GBP said:


> This got to be stopped before more perish in the sea.


I agree that something needs to be done because it is just a terrible tragedy and unnecessary waste of life.


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## goldfish (Oct 5, 2013)

I see wave after wave of "asylum seekers" coming through my local dental surgery here in the North West. Many of course, have horrendous dental problems, but after several visits (taxpayer funded of course) they are all smiles.

Too bad the our government cant do the same for our own disadvantaged people in town. Hundreds of indigenous locals sleeping in the sand dunes, on the streets, behind buildings, who have only the rags on their backs, no food, no shelter, no future............getting some dental work done is not even a dream.

Lets fix our own problems first by helping forgotten and under-privileged Australians, (of all colours), who just cant catch a break of any description.
Stop spending money on people who deliberately try to erase their identities before they get here, and then make no effort to assimilate into Australian society at all.


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## goldfish (Oct 5, 2013)

danegirl said:


> Hang on.. you have applied for a PMV right? These same people will be making the decision on that visa so in that case, I'd certainly hope that you would trust that they make the right decision _in the best interest of our country_...
> 
> Your reply to me clearly indicates that you are a nasty person , no surprise here.


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## danegirl (Sep 15, 2013)

goldfish said:


> Your reply to me clearly indicates that you are a nasty person , no surprise here.


Excuse me? At no time have I been nasty. All I meant was that if you trust the officers at DIBP to make a decision on your PMV, and I hope as much as you do that they approve it, then you should trust them to make the right decision in relation to other visas, including those of asylum seekers. No malice was intended and I apologise if it came across that way.


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## img68 (May 7, 2013)

*Pope Francis*

I hope that the words of Pope Francis (not a green-leftist-prolabour) will inspire the very catholic Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbot. I doubt it, probably he thinks Pope Francis is the reincarnation of Karl Marx!

I wish to all of you a happy Sunday surrounded by the love of friends and families.

"We are a society which has forgotten how to weep, how to experience compassion - "suffering with" others: the globalization of indifference has taken from us the ability to weep! (...) let us ask the Lord for the grace to weep over our indifference, to weep over the cruelty of our world, of our own hearts, and of all those who in anonymity make social and economic decisions which open the door to tragic situations like this. (...) Father, we ask your pardon for those who are complacent and closed amid comforts which have deadened their hearts; we beg your forgiveness for those who by their decisions on the global level have created situations that lead to these tragedies. Forgive us, Lord!"

Celebration of Holy Mass at the Arena sports camp during the Visit to Lampedusa, 8 July 2013


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## img68 (May 7, 2013)

BBC News - Lampedusa boat disaster: Divers recover more bodies

When those tragedies happen, I just think how lucky I am and I stop complaining. I am a "rich immigrant" with a visa and a plane ticket in my pocket... born in the "right side of the world".


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## GBP (Jun 1, 2013)

img68 said:


> BBC News - Lampedusa boat disaster: Divers recover more bodies
> 
> When those tragedies happen, I just think how lucky I am and I stop complaining. I am a "rich immigrant" with a visa and a plane ticket in my pocket... born in the "right side of the world".


Don't be too surprised if you found out that some of those on board the boats are actually richer than you...


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## GBP (Jun 1, 2013)

Morrison pledges crack down on refugees

Here is another reason why some people don't welcome them.


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## goldfish (Oct 5, 2013)

Thank you GBP for the link.

This just demonstrates the total confidence they have in paying mafia smugglers for a one way trip to exploit Australia.

Their confidence is confirmed by the suport they receive from the Labor Greens, ABC, Left-wing media and state educated nut jobs.

They are invading Australia with the sole greedy aim of milking it for all it's worth.

I think it would make a great one-hour documentary to secretly film and follow some of these fake refugees as they travel back home as soon as they possibly can, once they have that precious residency here that they bought. I would not be surprised at all to find some of them having businesses and property back home, nice sized local bank accounts, etc....None of that known to our public servants who throw money, services, and goods at them....


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## dunan (Oct 5, 2012)

The only real ''Refugees'' ive seen are the ones in many of the camps....they are starving...lived thru absolute hell....n the pics of the fat pricks just rescued don't seem to be too short of food or any signs of starvation, one would expect to generate any sympathy.....Why not stay in Indo?...that's a safe haven!!!!!....damn right they have an agenda....


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## GBP (Jun 1, 2013)

I'll be tough on 457 visa cheats: Morrison

Not so good news for student visa applicants?


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## goldfish (Oct 5, 2013)

I would like to ask our very busy Liberal Immigration Minister Hon. Scott Morrison when are they going to send back home those pesky "30,000+ country shoppers" that Liberal affirmed in their election campaign? Cashed up $$queue jumpers, very dubious country shoppers who throw away their passports, deceiving entry into Australia! These so called "clients" of Labor, obviously must all be sent back home A.S.A.P. And make way for the legitimate, terrified Christian refugees waiting for 10 years, in God damned UN refugee camps and process our Very legitimate applications in a fair and speedy fashion , after all we are the real Clients , we have paid real money for the privilege !!!


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## dunan (Oct 5, 2012)

Well said Goldfish......im so sick of Political Correctness so ''Have a Merry Christmas'' this year and screw this ''happy Holiday'' crap to appease these so called future Aussies....


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## Papi (Apr 29, 2013)

dunan said:


> Well said Goldfish......im so sick of Political Correctness so ''Have a Merry Christmas'' this year and screw this ''happy Holiday'' crap to appease these so called future Aussies....


Ok, so who has ever told you to stop saying "merry christmas" ???


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## ashleigh (Sep 4, 2013)

Yes I think Abbot's crack on asylum seekers on boats is a good idea. As you guys have said, the ones that do make it to Australia by boat are rich enough to pay for their travels, and are usually well off in their country. It makes me sad that actual refugees who have no other hope than to relocate to other countries have to go through lengthy processes while these people (in previous governments, at least) can just arrive and be granted a PR. Sure, I'm all about compassion and all, but we need to see who needs help more. 

And yes dunan, I don't see why, if they're really suffering back home, don't they want to stay in Indonesia. I have lived there, and it's great.


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## Starbreeze (Sep 9, 2013)

Papi said:


> Ok, so who has ever told you to stop saying "merry christmas" ???


I agree I have NEVER been told not to say "Merry Christmas"


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## Starbreeze (Sep 9, 2013)

This was a great thread but now its become negative.


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## dunan (Oct 5, 2012)

Paps...how long have you lived in OZ?......do you know that some of our kid's schools have banned the traditional nativity play concerts etc because it might offend a particular MINORITY?......Screw em...if it offends you then go back to where you feel happy at....we do not stop you celebrating whatever turns you on but do not push this crap on us..... enjoy your new found freedom in the greatest country in the world but don't try change us....


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## krissaid (Sep 5, 2012)

I think this thread is becoming ugly. I don't think this is helpful to anyone. Maybe the moderator should step in.


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## dunan (Oct 5, 2012)

YEP...close it....truth does hurt.....


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## CollegeGirl (Nov 10, 2012)

krissaid said:


> I think this thread is becoming ugly. I don't think this is helpful to anyone. Maybe the moderator should step in.


This moderator agrees!.Thread closed.


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