# Have left Australia when PR visa expired and without applying for RRV by accident



## bronmorgan (Dec 16, 2017)

Hi - our situation is embarrassing and I know we should have been on top of this. My husband has been in Australia on a PR visa (based on marriage to me) for 5 and a half years (entered Sep 2012). We had absolutely no idea that his freedom to travel was not permanent and would expire after 5 years.

As a result, we are now (Dec 17th, 2017) in the US visiting family and have realised that we should have applied for a Resident Return Visa (RRV) for him before leaving - but we are already here. 

From reading around, I think it is fine for us to still apply online from here (he has been resident and employed in Australia the whole 5 years apart from occasional overseas holidays), but it may well take longer to process than our air ticket (we're supposed to fly back 3 January). 

If anyone has any tips on speeding up the process (could we attach our air ticket for example to the application) and also any tips on alternative ways to make it home, we'd be really grateful (the rest of us are all Australian citizens).

In particular, if he were to apply for an ETA tourist visa in roder to go home and then reapply for the RVV from Sydney, would that undo his underlying permanent residency status? From what I understand, that status really is permanent, it's just the permission to travel overseas that is not.

I can't tell you how foolish we feel for not having been on top of this, but would be really grateful for any advice - we're also happy to seek professional private advice from a reputable migration agent if anyone has recommendations. We are planning to submit the online application for the 155 visa first thing Monday morning 18th December Australia time from here in the US.

There is one more thing puzzling us - he is a dual national and his PR was granted on his UK passport so we'll use that - but the online form has 4 options for British citizens - British citizen, British overseas citizen, British overseas national, British overseas territory citizen. We know we're not the fourth, but what is the difference between the 2nd and 3rd? - we have UK passports and we vote from Australia as British overseas citizens so I suppose we're no 2, but I didn't know that no 3 existed.....

Thanks in advance - 
Bronwen and Jim


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

I suggest speaking with a registered migration agent. Here is the list that post on this forum regularly: http://www.australiaforum.com/visas-immigration/252474-registered-migration-agents.html

It is only the travel rights expire on the PR. Applying for a RRV at this time of year is probably not going to be fast, but you never know your luck. The issue is that as you are probably aware alot of people will take time off between Christmas and New Year so DIBP are probably will be on skeleton staff soon, if not already.

I would be speaking with a migration agent ASAP, as I unsure if he comes back on an ETA if that then means that he won't be able to work until the RRV is granted.


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## ampk (Sep 21, 2013)

Yes the agents that often post on here are all very good and one is active today.


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## JandE (Jul 17, 2015)

I was in that position some years ago. UK passport holder, PR for 15 years, but back in UK and the RRV expired.
My wife at the time had Australian citizenship, as did my daughter.

I didn't have the luxury of asking on a forum, so I just came back in on a tourist visa, the 24 hour process one.

Had an interview at an Immigration office, and all was OK again. Presumably due to substantial ties to Australia.

I suppose that once I was back in, it was all OK, as the PR rights do not expire. 
But I also assume that Immigration could refuse entry, and with everything electronic now, it may not be as easy?


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## CCMS (Oct 10, 2013)

JandE said:


> I so I just came back in on a tourist visa, the 24 hour process one.
> 
> Had an interview at an Immigration office, and all was OK again. Presumably due to substantial ties to Australia.


A tourist visa would replace the existing visa and PR would be gone forever.

I'd lodge a RRV application online and see how you go. Or contact the Embassy/Consulate in the USA and see if they can help speed things up.

As for your other question : https://www.gov.uk/types-of-british-nationality


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## Kulwant Kumar (Dec 16, 2017)

Here is my analysis:

You have PR (which gave you 5 years travel facility). After 5 years you went outside Australia. You still have PR but you are stuck outside Australia as you cannot enter Australia. What can you do?

1. Option 1: Get ETA/ tourist visa (preferably ETA) and enter Australia - but you are now in Australia as tourist. Your PR visa will be gone. That's still OK. You can still apply for RRV. Because for RRV, you need to be "former permanent resident" which you will be. So, the end result is you will be waiting for RRV but you will not be allowed to work (because you will be tourist) until RRV is granted. After RRV is granted the life is back to normal.

2. Option 2 - Apply for RRV, wait for it to be granted. May take some time, may need to adjust the return tickets but as soon as RRV is granted, you will be able to return to Australia, have full work rights and life back to normal


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## Mania (Sep 7, 2016)

Kulwant Kumar said:


> Here is my analysis:
> 
> You have PR (which gave you 5 years travel facility). After 5 years you went outside Australia. You still have PR but you are stuck outside Australia as you cannot enter Australia. What can you do?
> 
> ...


Option one is flawed by s2 155.212 & s2 157.212

155.212" (2) The applicant meets the requirements of this subclause if the applicant was lawfully present in Australia for a period of, or periods that total, not less than 2 years in the period of 5 years immediately before the application for the visa and, during that time, the applicant:

(a) was:

(i) the holder of a permanent visa or a permanent entry permit; "

157.212" (a) was lawfully present in Australia for a period of, or periods that total, not less than 1 day but less than 2 years in the period of 5 years immediately before the application for the visa and, during that time, the applicant:

(i) was:

 (A) the holder of a permanent visa or a permanent entry permit; "


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## Kulwant Kumar (Dec 16, 2017)

You have copied the Regulation but can you please point out where is the flaw?

Please note:
155.212(1) The applicant meets the requirements of subclause (2), (3), (3A) or (4).

you have just checked clause (2) but not others


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## Ramah (Apr 25, 2017)

Kulwant Kumar said:


> 1. Option 1: Get ETA/ tourist visa (preferably ETA) and enter Australia - but you are now in Australia as tourist. Your PR visa will be gone. That's still OK. You can still apply for RRV. Because for RRV, you need to be "former permanent resident" which you will be. So, the end result is you will be waiting for RRV but you will not be allowed to work (because you will be tourist) until RRV is granted. After RRV is granted the life is back to normal.


I'm not sure where you're getting your information from, an RMA commented before you saying:



CCMS said:


> A standard tourist visa would replace the existing visa and PR would be gone forever.


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## Mania (Sep 7, 2016)

Kulwant Kumar said:


> You have copied the Regulation but can you please point out where is the flaw?


By holding a non PR sublclass of visa they have given up their PR status and as such no longer comply with:

"the holder of a permanent visa or a permanent entry permit"


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## Kulwant Kumar (Dec 16, 2017)

Hi Ramah. I also mention the same that PR visa will be gone.


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## Mania (Sep 7, 2016)

Kulwant Kumar said:


> Hi Ramah. I also mention the same that PR visa will be gone.


And as such will no longer be eligible for a RRV as per the posted legislation...

Either that or I am misunderstanding the legislation and would love to know how it works..


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## Kulwant Kumar (Dec 16, 2017)

Please check 155.212(3A). 
They just need to show that they has substantial business, cultural, employment or personal ties with Australia which are of benefit to Australia

Which they have to show anyway if they apply for RRV outside Australia (155.212(3)).

Here how it works:
155.211(c) is satisfied - they are former Australian permanent resident
155.212(1) is satisfied because of 155.212(3A)

Is it Clear now?


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## Mania (Sep 7, 2016)

Kulwant Kumar said:


> Please check 155.212(3A).
> They just need to show that they has substantial business, cultural, employment or personal ties with Australia which are of benefit to Australia
> 
> Which they have to show anyway if they apply for RRV outside Australia (155.212(3)).


But during that time they still have held a permanent visa for the previous 5 years as the permanent visa doesn't expire. So the offshore applicant would be fine

However by replacing it with a new non permanent visa they no longer comply with the permanent visa for the previous 5 years....so ties or not they don't have the required permanent residency to apply for the RRV?


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## Kulwant Kumar (Dec 16, 2017)

I have given options in my analysis. They can apply for RRV offshore is one of the options.

Regarding your second statement - there is no requirement of currently existing permanent residency to apply for RRV. 155.211(c) states that if you are a former Australian permanent resident you can apply for RRV.


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## Mania (Sep 7, 2016)

Kulwant Kumar said:


> I have given options in my analysis. They can apply for RRV offshore is one of the options.
> 
> Regarding your second statement - there is no requirement of currently existing permanent residency to apply for RRV. 155.211(c) states that if you are a former Australian permanent resident you can apply for RRV.


Fair enough, my mistake. - beyond my pay grade it seems.


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## Kulwant Kumar (Dec 16, 2017)

I believe i deserve a "like" after this


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## Mania (Sep 7, 2016)

Kulwant Kumar said:


> I believe i deserve a "like" after this


I'll give a like if you give a MARN, Id find it hard to believe you don't have one


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## lightningx (Dec 4, 2015)

Just to add, do note if application is based on substantial ties... only 1 year RRV will be granted.

For 5 years RRV, it's very clear that certain types of temporary visa are not allowed. Applying for a tourist visa automatically disqualifies from the 5 years RRV. ETA is allowed though.

In practical terms, I think applying for RRV while having a tourist visa or having had a tourist visa, literally resets the 2 out of 5 year clock to 0 again, even though a one year RRV is subsequently granted. ETA is fine though.


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## Ramah (Apr 25, 2017)

Kulwant Kumar said:


> Please check 155.212(3A).
> They just need to show that they has substantial business, cultural, employment or personal ties with Australia which are of benefit to Australia
> 
> Which they have to show anyway if they apply for RRV outside Australia (155.212(3)).
> ...


155.212
(1) The applicant meets the requirements of subclause (2), (3), (3A) or (4).
(2) The applicant meets the requirements of this subclause if the applicant was lawfully present in Australia for a period of, or periods that total, not less than 2 years in the period of 5 years immediately before the application for the visa and, during that time, the applicant:
(a) was:
(i) the holder of a permanent visa or a permanent entry permit; or
(ii) an Australian citizen; and
(b)* was not the holder of*:
(i) *a temporary visa (other than a Subclass 601 (Electronic Travel Authority) visa*, a Subclass 773 Border visa, Subclass 956 Electronic Travel Authority (Business Entrant - Long Validity) visa, Subclass 976 Electronic Travel Authority (Visitor) visa or Subclass 977 Electronic Travel Authority (Business Entrant - Short Validity) visa) held concurrently with the permanent visa or the permanent entry permit); or
(ii) a bridging visa.

Doesn't that mean that a visitor visa (temporary) would make the applicant non-eligible for RRV?

In your post you said ETA/visitor visa so I'm referring to this.

CCMS pointed out ETA can work but you stated that a visitor visa could also work.

I'm not an RMA, just curious to know, that's all.


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## bronmorgan (Dec 16, 2017)

*Wow, thank you for this input!*

Wow - I'm the original poster in the pickle, and have just caught up from a different time zone - thank you so much for all this amazing input and discussion. I feel humbled by people taking so much effort to figure out the options.

It sounds to me like we should consult a professional pretty quickly, but also the discussion on here does still seem to open up the two options Kumar suggested although option 1 (going back on an ETA) is more risky and still might cause problems with my husband's job. He is already in this job and is just away on annual leave, but he works for the government (health dept) so not sure what will happen if he's back on an ETA waiting for the RRV - but we may have to figure that out, or just keep him here in the US if we can figure out the logistics of that back home..

I had not even realised there was a difference between an ETA and a visitor visa!

So complicated - because also wondering if he should base his RRV application on his US passport given we are over here right now, even though the PR was granted on his UK passport.

Anyway I will contact an RMA and will let you all know what happens too.

Bronwen


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## lightningx (Dec 4, 2015)

Ramah said:


> 155.212
> (1) The applicant meets the requirements of subclause (2), (3), (3A) or (4).
> (2) The applicant meets the requirements of this subclause if the applicant was lawfully present in Australia for a period of, or periods that total, not less than 2 years in the period of 5 years immediately before the application for the visa and, during that time, the applicant:
> (a) was:
> ...


If i read the legislation correctly, a person on visitor visa would still be eligible but under subclause (3), (3A) or (4), all of which only allows for a 1 year RRV... only subclause (2) allows for a 5 year RRV.... these are under the substantial ties and which the temporary visa clause does not apply.

So the answer is yes and one will need to distinguish between 5 and 1 year RRVs


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## lightningx (Dec 4, 2015)

bronmorgan said:


> Wow - I'm the original poster in the pickle, and have just caught up from a different time zone - thank you so much for all this amazing input and discussion. I feel humbled by people taking so much effort to figure out the options.
> 
> It sounds to me like we should consult a professional pretty quickly, but also the discussion on here does still seem to open up the two options Kumar suggested although option 1 (going back on an ETA) is more risky and still might cause problems with my husband's job. He is already in this job and is just away on annual leave, but he works for the government (health dept) so not sure what will happen if he's back on an ETA waiting for the RRV - but we may have to figure that out, or just keep him here in the US if we can figure out the logistics of that back home..
> 
> ...


Do note technically, your husband is working illegally while being employed on an ongoing basis on an interim ETA. An ETA does not allow for work. This might get him and his employer in trouble. I wouldn't want to risk it if I were you.

The only water tight solution not to get into trouble is to apply for an offshore RRV.


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## Ramah (Apr 25, 2017)

lightningx said:


> If i read the legislation correctly, a person on visitor visa would still be eligible but under subclause (3), (3A) or (4), all of which only allows for a 1 year RRV... only subclause (2) allows for a 5 year RRV.... these are under the substantial ties and which the temporary visa clause does not apply.
> 
> So the answer is yes and one will need to distinguish between 5 and 1 year RRVs


That legislation I posted is purely for 5 years RRV (subclass 155).

1 year RRV, which is under a different legislation, does not apply in this case since the OP has been in Australia for 5.5 years and the requirement for 1 year RRV is "You have been physically present in Australia, however you have been in Australia for less than 2 years during the 5 year period that precedes the lodgement of your application"


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## lightningx (Dec 4, 2015)

Ramah said:


> That legislation I posted is purely for 5 years RRV (subclass 155).
> 
> 1 year RRV, which is under a different legislation, does not apply in this case since the OP has been in Australia for 5.5 years and the requirement for 1 year RRV is "You have been physically present in Australia, however you have been in Australia for less than 2 years during the 5 year period that precedes the lodgement of your application"


I don't think there is a separate legislation for 1 year RRV. Both (5 & 1 year) are under 155 subclass and in the same section in the legislation. 155.511 caters for 1 year RRV.

For general cases, 2 out of 5 years is the norm and that's reflected in the paragraph you quoted which is catered for a normal audience.

However, once we get to the nitty gritty of temporary visas (which is usually not reflected in ordinary language outside of legislation), subclause (2) does not and cannot apply anymore to holders of tourist visa.. and therefore subclause (3),(3A) and (4)... note a person can still have substantial ties having 5.5 years.... But a person having 5.5 years cannot qualify under subclause (2) if s/he has a tourist visa

I stand to be corrected though.


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## Mania (Sep 7, 2016)

lightningx said:


> I don't think there is a separate legislation for 1 year RRV. Both (5 & 1 year) are under 155 subclass and in the same section in the legislation. 155.511 caters for 1 year RRV.
> 
> For general cases, 2 out of 5 years is the norm and that's reflected in the paragraph you quoted which is catered for a normal audience.
> 
> ...


155 & 157 for the two different RRV's...


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## Mania (Sep 7, 2016)

bronmorgan said:


> Wow - I'm the original poster in the pickle, and have just caught up from a different time zone - thank you so much for all this amazing input and discussion. I feel humbled by people taking so much effort to figure out the options.
> 
> It sounds to me like we should consult a professional pretty quickly, but also the discussion on here does still seem to open up the two options Kumar suggested although option 1 (going back on an ETA) is more risky and still might cause problems with my husband's job. He is already in this job and is just away on annual leave, but he works for the government (health dept) so not sure what will happen if he's back on an ETA waiting for the RRV - but we may have to figure that out, or just keep him here in the US if we can figure out the logistics of that back home..
> 
> ...


You realise there's at least one and I suspect two RMA's posting here right?


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## JandE (Jul 17, 2015)

bronmorgan said:


> Wow - I'm the original poster in the pickle, and have just caught up from a different time zone - thank you so much for all this amazing input and discussion. I feel humbled by people taking so much effort to figure out the options.
> 
> It sounds to me like we should consult a professional pretty quickly, but also the discussion on here does still seem to open up the two options Kumar suggested although option 1 (going back on an ETA) is more risky and still might cause problems with my husband's job. He is already in this job and is just away on annual leave, but he works for the government (health dept) so not sure what will happen if he's back on an ETA waiting for the RRV - but we may have to figure that out, or just keep him here in the US if we can figure out the logistics of that back home..
> 
> ...


This was from an RMA, you could check with him.


CCMS said:


> An ETA could work. A standard tourist visa would replace the existing visa and PR would be gone forever.


In my case, I assume it would have been an ETA (subclass 601 visa) that I came back in on, not a 600 Visitor visa. Seems like it might have been a problem if I had tried the 600.. I didn't know at the time, but it seems I was lucky.

Work was not a relevant point to me at the time, so that wasn't an issue, but it seems that the ETA does not affect the PR status anyway.

I have just been reading a few other areas where it is said that:
An ETA (601 visa) would not cancel the PR visa. 
A Visitor Visa (600 visa) will cancel a PR.

A few others, as recently as 2015, seem to have done the same as I did.


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## bronmorgan (Dec 16, 2017)

Mania said:


> You realise there's at least one and I suspect two RMA's posting here right?


Yes, thanks I definitely realised one and I have contacted him through his official website hoping for a paid professional consultation as soon as possible.

If there are two RMAs posting, maybe they have different opinions? - it sounds as though it is in very tricky territory once the temporary visa option of going back home is invoked and I can understand it is hard to see just what will happen. I can see it will be safer to stay here in the US until the RRV is granted while offshore - that will still involve negotiation with his employer especially if it is taking as long as I fearfully hear some people writing about...


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## aussiesteve (Mar 16, 2012)

It is my understanding that one of the requirements of this forum is that any MRA is required to disclose the fact and state their registration number. Personally I always prefer to believe someone who is prepared to back up their opinion by disclosing their credentials rather than rely on the opinion of someone, who as far as we have been informed is an amateur.


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## CCMS (Oct 10, 2013)

Kulwant Kumar said:


> Here is my analysis:
> 
> You have PR (which gave you 5 years travel facility). After 5 years you went outside Australia. You still have PR but you are stuck outside Australia as you cannot enter Australia. What can you do?
> 
> 1. Option 1: Get ETA/ tourist visa (preferably ETA) and enter Australia - but you are now in Australia as tourist. Your PR visa will be gone. That's still OK. You can still apply for RRV. Because for RRV, you need to be "former permanent resident" which you will be. So, the end result is you will be waiting for RRV but you will not be allowed to work (because you will be tourist) until RRV is granted. After RRV is granted the life is back to normal.



An ETA can be held concurrently.

A tourist visa will replace PR.

If a permanent resident is granted a temporary visa that comes into effect (that is, not an ETA or Border visa) the person becomes a temporary resident on the date of grant. While after the grant of a temporary visa, they continue to be a former permanent resident and may, in the future be eligible for an RRV.

However, I would never advise someone with PR to deliberately become a "former permanent resident".

The process to obtain a new 5 year RRV should be relatively straightforward, so why complicate matters?


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## bronmorgan (Dec 16, 2017)

aussiesteve said:


> It is my understanding that one of the requirements of this forum is that any MRA is required to disclose the fact and state their registration number. Personally I always prefer to believe someone who is prepared to back up their opinion by disclosing their credentials rather than rely on the opinion of someone, who as far as we have been informed is an amateur.


CCMS, who was quoted by JandE, has disclosed that he is an MRA on his signature and stated his registration number - I hope to be consulting him privately soon.


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## Skybluebrewer (Jan 15, 2016)

CCMS is a good choice. As the first two digits of his MARN number are 06, he has over ten years experience under his belt (registered 2006).


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## Kulwant Kumar (Dec 16, 2017)

CCMS said:


> An ETA will not replace PR, but can be held concurrently.
> 
> A tourist visa will replace PR.
> 
> ...


You are right in saying that ETA *can*  be held concurrently. But the question is will it be held concurrently in this case? if your answer is yes, then you should advice the client to come back on ETA and enjoy their PR. If your answer is no then what you are saying that ETA is replacing PR. Isn't it?

Next, The policy extract you provided just emphasis the fact that even if they come on tourist visa they will continue to be classified as "former PR" and will be eligible for RRV. It don't confirm that ETA will exist concurrently with PR. If you are wondering why ETA is in brackets then the answer is because of 601.512 in ETA, the applicant may not necessarily become the temporary resident on the date of the grant.

Next, I haven't advice anyone that they become former permanent resident. I just gave them the options they have. I haven't given any preferred option.


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## CCMS (Oct 10, 2013)

Kulwant Kumar said:


> You are right in saying that ETA *can* be held concurrently. But the question is will it be held concurrently in this case? if your answer is yes, then you should advice the client to come back on ETA and enjoy their PR. If your answer is no then what you are saying that ETA is replacing PR. Isn't it?
> 
> Next, The policy extract you provided just emphasis the fact that even if they come on tourist visa they will continue to be classified as "former PR" and will be eligible for RRV. It don't confirm that ETA will exist concurrently with PR. If you are wondering why ETA is in brackets then the answer is because of 601.512 in ETA, the applicant may not necessarily become the temporary resident on the date of the grant.
> 
> Next, I haven't advice anyone that they become former permanent resident. I just gave them the options they have. I haven't given any preferred option.


Thank you for advising me how to advise my client. Given your previous advice on bridging visas, I may take a rain-check on that.

Why try and obscure a relatively simply matter with all sort of unnecessary complications? Have you ever applied for any RRV's ?

Other than that, as a fellow RMA, I welcome you to this forum.


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## ampk (Sep 21, 2013)

If you have to choose between a Visitor Visa and an ETA, the ETA is advantages in many ways.

Would a Visitor Visa reset the clock to citizenship?


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## CCMS (Oct 10, 2013)

ampk said:


> If you have to choose between a Visitor Visa and an ETA, the ETA is advantages in many ways.
> 
> Would a Visitor Visa reset the clock to citizenship?


I can't see the point of applying for a visitor visa in cases like this.


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## Kulwant Kumar (Dec 16, 2017)

CCMS said:


> Thank you for advising me how to advise my client. Given your previous advice on bridging visas, I may take a rain-check on that.
> 
> Maybe you should read up on ETA's, as it appears that you may not have a good grasp of the relevant issues. An ETA can not replace a substantive visa, so the question is pointless. I don't think you properly interpret or understand regulation 601.512 either.
> 
> ...


Hi Nick, Thanks for welcoming me to the forum. I really liked the fireworks 
Coming back to the discussion, *ETA is a substantive visa (s5 of the Act) and will substitute any other substantial visa (s82 of the Act).*

In any case, it is not a complex situation and many people fall into this pitfall. I would prefer offshore RRV instead of obtaining ETA/tourist visa.


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## ampk (Sep 21, 2013)

I would put my $'s on the agent since 2006 as opposed to the one since some time this year.

I do recall about some visas running concurrently before as apposed to replacing.


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## Mania (Sep 7, 2016)

aussiesteve said:


> It is my understanding that one of the requirements of this forum is that any MRA is required to disclose the fact and state their registration number. Personally I always prefer to believe someone who is prepared to back up their opinion by disclosing their credentials rather than rely on the opinion of someone, who as far as we have been informed is an amateur.


I don't believe you can edit a signature until X posts have been completed.

Making this rule "Registered migration agent are required to have their MARN in their signature. Failure to do this may result it being removed from AustraliaForum.com" hard to follow.


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## Maggie-May24 (Jul 24, 2011)

Mania said:


> I don't believe you can edit a signature until X posts have been completed.
> 
> Making this rule "Registered migration agent are required to have their MARN in their signature. Failure to do this may result it being removed from AustraliaForum.com" hard to follow.


True, but they can include their MARN at the bottom of their posts until the signature option is available to them.


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## Mania (Sep 7, 2016)

Maggie-May24 said:


> True, but they can include their MARN at the bottom of their posts until the signature option is available to them.


Fair point.

Welcome back.


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## CCMS (Oct 10, 2013)

Kulwant Kumar said:


> Hi Nick, Thanks for welcoming me to the forum. I really liked the fireworks
> Coming back to the discussion, *ETA is a substantive visa (s5 of the Act) and will substitute any other substantial visa (s82 of the Act).*
> 
> In any case, it is not a complex situation and many people fall into this pitfall. I would prefer offshore RRV instead of obtaining ETA/tourist visa.


Yes, you're right

_A substantive visa held by a non-citizen ceases to be in effect if another substantive visa (other than a special purpose visa) for the non-citizen comes into effect._

Question is of course if the ETA can come into effect at all:

_If the applicant already holds a substantive visa (other than a Special Purpose visa or a Subclass 988 (Maritime Crew) visa) that is in effect at the time of grant, the Subclass 601 visa comes into effect when the other substantive visa ceases to be in effect._


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## Kulwant Kumar (Dec 16, 2017)

CCMS said:


> Yes, you're right
> 
> _A substantive visa held by a non-citizen ceases to be in effect if another substantive visa (other than a special purpose visa) for the non-citizen comes into effect._
> 
> ...


What you quoted is 601.512.

As you correctly pointed out that the question is whether ETA can come into effect. which based on 600.512 leads to whether the PR visa cease to be in effect.

As per s82(6) - There PR visa was cease to be in effect when they leave Australia.

So, ETA will be come into effect.


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## CCMS (Oct 10, 2013)

Kulwant Kumar said:


> What you quoted is 601.512.
> 
> As you correctly pointed out that the question is whether ETA can come into effect. which based on 600.512 leads to whether the PR visa cease to be in effect.
> 
> ...


Moral of the story: to avoid a sticky situation, do not leave Australia without having a valid travel facility in place...


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## ampk (Sep 21, 2013)

Kulwant Kumar said:


> Here is my analysis:
> 
> You have PR (which gave you 5 years travel facility). After 5 years you went outside Australia. *You still have PR *but you are stuck outside Australia as you cannot enter Australia. What can you do?


So when did PR cease?
( by leaving Australia).

As mentioned only the travel component ceased after 5 year not the PR, that seems to still be in effect.

So a visa is needed to travel to Australia not enter Australia - it seems an ETA will do this.


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## CCMS (Oct 10, 2013)

ampk said:


> I would put my $'s on the agent since 2006 as opposed to the one since some time this year.
> .


That's nice of you AMP, but we all have to start somewhere. Kulwant is a Registered Migration Agent and he has made some valid points.

This is actually a fairly complex issue, especially when you throw ETA's in the mix. If "genuine visitor" requirements are strictly adhered to, then neither ETA's or standard tourist visas can be granted, since the applicant already has PR and has no intention to leave Australia again.

My advice would be to wait for a RRV offshore to avoid all sort of messy complications.


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## CCMS (Oct 10, 2013)

ampk said:


> So when did PR cease?
> ( by leaving Australia).
> 
> As mentioned only the travel component ceased after 5 year not the PR, that seems to still be in effect.
> ...


The argument is not that PR *ceased* , but that the PR visa is not *"in effect"*, because the holder left Australia after a certain date (the date the travel facility expired).


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## CCMS (Oct 10, 2013)

Happy to advise that I have been informed that a RRV was granted after a few days and there was no need to consider any of the more complex scenarios discussed in this thread.


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## ampk (Sep 21, 2013)

NehaSharma20 said:


> The *Australia Visa consultants* can guide you in better direction. Since you are in problem they find the way that likely meet your specific circumstances. Go for expert Australia immigration consultant.


Seems you missed the fact that the problem has been solved!


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## NehaSharma20 (Nov 10, 2017)

I am just writing the answer to the question.


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## Awazz22 (Feb 2, 2018)

Hi All ,

It’s good to read above . I have done a similar mistake  . My PR travel for expired In dec 17 and I travelled to India last week without realising I need RRV before I do travel . 

Long story short - I did apply my online application 24 hours ago . Have I made it complicated for me ? Any help with processing times and complications I may go through ? 

I have been living and working in Aus for 5 years apart from usual travels . 

Thanks heaps for any help and advice .

A


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