# 2nd Year WHV without Farm work



## dyel123 (Apr 30, 2017)

Before I start: I appreciate I'm probably going to get lots of peoples moral stance on this, and if so, so be it. But it is what it is.

I started my 1st year WHV in June 16, I left Aus early this year. During my time there I worked for an employer for 6 months but it was not regional or farm work of the slight. Im back in the UK now, however I have now realised I really dont want to be in the UK, and want to go back to Oz and look for sponsorship.. Little too late.

I can get back in the country on my current Visa (until June) however I don't have 88 days to do the farm work. I understand the 88 days has to be completed IN the first year, there's no way to bridge in this case..?

I have seriously been contemplating the idea of flying back before my visa expires, and just having a go at applying for the second year visa. I have an ABN from a friend, and I understand the odds of them investigating the application are much lower inside the country, where as outside you may even get accepted but then stopped at customs.

Can anyone think of any other way around this situation? Or is my only option (if I want to try and go back for another year) to risk it? I understand if they ask for evidence, you can just withdraw the application and leave (before it gets fully investigated and you get to the stage of deportation etc.) My plan was to book a flight in with a return flight both inside my first year period that's letft, so that if it's accepted I'll stay, and if they request more info, I'll withdraw it and leave.

Morals aside, does anyone know someone directly that has been accepted on a 2nd year WHV without farm work?

Also, if you do get 'caught' with an invalid/false application. I understand it's a 3 year visa ban, and you have to leave asap, is there a fine? If so does anyone know how much it is? Any other implications?

Again, I know this is a very grey area we're discussing, but it's the situation I'm in. Advice like 'well you should of done farm work' is redundant now, so please unless you have a genuine contribution to make rather than trying to take the high horse, please refrain!

Thank you all.


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## sheilae (Jan 28, 2017)

In short, you're shit out of luck. 

They've changed the processing of 2nd year visas in the last few years (my understanding is 2015/2016, but I could be wrong), because of people in your situation submitting essentially invalid applications. 

It's all well and good to have your friends ABN, but if/when you're investigated it will turn up you didn't work for your friend. Especially given the new regulations about employers registering when they employ people on WHV so they can be taxed correctly under the new system, and with that ABN your employment can be cross referenced with the ATO.

If you were going to lie and you don't have 88 that you were in Australia where you could have done regional work than you really have no case to make. 

In terms of consequences, if you were caught, it would reflect negatively on you if you were to ever try to come back to Australia after a 3 year exclusion, and could impact your application for visas for other countries who may ask you about prior visa refusals. 

I know you've said you don't want to hear 'should have done your farm work before' but really that's what it comes down to. And if you go back, and lie, and get caught? It's shit for you sure, but you're contributing to making it even more difficult for people who complete their regional work in good faith. Like I did. 

And by posting on a forum like this you're opening yourself up to that criticism, you can take our advice or not, but many of us have strong opinions about visa fraud of any kind, because it directly affects us. 

If you talk to a registered migration agent there may be a way for you to come back not on a WHV, but through employment sponsorship depending on your background or study if you want to go to uni, but you are not eligible for a 2nd year WHV. Maybe go to NZ or Canada on a working holiday instead?


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## Ramah (Apr 25, 2017)

Hi dyel123.

I completely understand your frustration but I just wanted to warn you, being inside the country doesn't make it less likely you'd get investigated, I was.

I did the work (not farm but I worked on a gas mine for AGL). It was all legit. I applied whilst being in Australia and I got asked to prove it with pay slips, bank statements etc even though the employer signed my form and everything. I was on a bridging visa for 3 months before getting granted. Now, by all means you can withdraw but it does make it harder for you in future to get back into Australia even as a tourist and if they find that you submitted false documents then a refusal can not only impact coming back into Australia but other countries too as they usually ask if you've been refused a visa before and everything is linked to your passport now-a-days.

Do you have any qualifications? Can you come back as a skilled migrant?

You're free to do as you please, but I just wanted to give you my experience.

Best of luck!


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## dyel123 (Apr 30, 2017)

Appreciate your advice guys. Like I said, I know what I'm asking of is immoral in nature, but it's my situation.

I don't have any university education/qualifications so a skilled visa is a no go.

If I apply and they ask for evidence, I believe I can withdraw at that stage with no comeback? (I just won't have any chance of it going through.)

My plan was to come back on a 2nd year WHV, and go into recruitment and then look for the 2 year sponsorship (as per recent changes) and during that period try to find a way to get to PR. 

The only other option/idea I had was, can I apply for recruitment jobs from outside Aus, interview over skype etc (or potentially come over for interviews on remainder of WHV/Tourist visa) and then get sponsored from OUTSIDE Aus to come back in for the job? (I think the issue would be that in recruitment, they can argue that there's around 6 months worth of training to skill someone up for the job, so if this is done in the WHV period, they can then sponsor. But I'd imagine that to sponsor you from the get go from outside Aus, the application wouldn't go ahead as you'd not be trained anyway thus not be offering a skillset at the stage of application to qualify..?)

As for NZ, went there prior to Oz, wasn't for me. Oz is the only place I have my eyes set on, which I guess is why this is such a big deal for me.

I believe they check 1 in 7 applications? (Ask for further evidence, pay slips etc)


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## Ramah (Apr 25, 2017)

dyel123 said:


> Appreciate your advice guys. Like I said, I know what I'm asking of is immoral in nature, but it's my situation.
> 
> I don't have any university education/qualifications so a skilled visa is a no go.
> 
> ...


*I think recently, it's been a higher percentage than that as there were so many bogus farmers, it's now linked to the taxation office etc to make it harder to falsely make claims *

Would you want to study? Student visa may be an option then


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## dyel123 (Apr 30, 2017)

Ramah said:


> *I think recently, it's been a higher percentage than that as there were so many bogus farmers, it's now linked to the taxation office etc to make it harder to falsely make claims *
> 
> Would you want to study? Student visa may be an option then


The main aim if I go, is to find a way for PR. Would study potentially lead to PR? Would I be eligible for all the funding support etc as a British Citizen?


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## Ramah (Apr 25, 2017)

dyel123 said:


> The main aim if I go, is to find a way for PR. Would study potentially lead to PR? Would I be eligible for all the funding support etc as a British Citizen?


this is the official link to the scrapping for the 457 (sponsorship visa), see if you can meet the requirements.

https://www.border.gov.au/Trav/Work/457-abolition-replacement

You'd be charged as an international student, being a British Citizen doesn't give us any funding here in terms of studying and you won't be eligible for student loans etc as they are for Australian Citizens so you would have to have enough funding yourself but you could potentially go on to PR afterwards, through work (although it's not the easiest way).

Do you have any relatives here at all?


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## dyel123 (Apr 30, 2017)

Ramah said:


> this is the official link to the scrapping for the 457 (sponsorship visa), see if you can meet the requirements.
> 
> You'd be charged as an international student, being a British Citizen doesn't give us any funding here in terms of studying and you won't be eligible for student loans etc as they are for Australian Citizens so you would have to have enough funding yourself but you could potentially go on to PR afterwards, through work (although it's not the easiest way).
> 
> Do you have any relatives here at all?


Ah okay. That's annoying, don't imagine I'd ever afford the copious amounts it costs to study!

No relatives.


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## sheilae (Jan 28, 2017)

I mean, if you have no training/uni I really feel like you don't have much of a chance re: sponsorship, especially with the recent changes, which in part are to encourage/force businesses look to Aussies first.

Maybe look at going to uni or... whatever the UK equivalent for TAFE is and get qualified for something in the trades. These are the occupations that currently can lead to PR. Obvi they're subject to change etc etc etc

https://www.border.gov.au/Trav/Work...-authorities/skilled-occupations-lists/mltssl


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## Ramah (Apr 25, 2017)

There are some really good migration agents here on this forum, it might be worth getting in touch with one of them and seek their advice.

You could always come back on a tourist visa (evisitor 651 visa which is free and lets you stay for 3 months at a time and it's valid for 12 months) and make enquires from here in regards to work and sponsorship (it includes business visitor purposes but you can't work).

I'm not an agent, I'm just giving you advice on what I know as I've been in Australia for several years now and I'm from the UK myself.

Just a thought but you can get WHV for other countries too, Hong Kong, Canada etc.


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## Skybluebrewer (Jan 15, 2016)

If your end goal is PR, lying this early in the game isn't going to get you there.

Someone recently did exactly what you're asking and now they have found themselves in a situation of lying yet again on another visa because of it. Think getting caught lying on multiple applications will get you PR? And maybe you will, maybe you won't get investigated this time... but eventually at some point you're likely to get caught. 

If you want to stay here, follow the proper routes. Either go home and work on a skill needed or come here and study on a student visa and try and set yourself up for the future. Talk to an RMA to see all of your options.


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## wrussell (Dec 31, 2014)

*Do not under any circumstances submit false or misleading information or fraudulaent documents to Australian immigration. This is fatal to an application, even if you did not know, and catastrophic to your standing with immigration if you did know*

From our service agreement:
**Please note: Under the Migration Agents Code of Conduct a Registered Migration Agent is liable to severe sanctions for submitting fraudulent documents or misleading information that he or she knew, or should have known, were fraudulent or misleading. If you provide us with fraudulent documents or misleading information or allow another party to do so we will at our sole discretion terminate this agreement on such terms as we see fit. Under Regulation 4020 applicants who submit fraudulent documents or provide misleading information stand to have visas refused, or if granted to have it cancelled and to face a lengthy exclusion period

*


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## CCMS (Oct 10, 2013)

My advice would be to take the long term view and sit down with a registered migration agent and work out your options. Trying to take dodgy short-cuts or gaming the system may result in ruining your chances to ever migrate or even just travel to Australia, NZ, Canada or the USA.

Not so long ago some smart arse Irish backpackers were openly advertising on Gumtree with fraudulent documents to support second WHV applications. This resulted in a massive crackdown and a tightening in processing procedures. Cross checking between various departments will only increase and any applications that are not legit or don't meet the requirements will be doomed from the start.


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## wrussell (Dec 31, 2014)

*Immigration can and does check your; bank, superannuation, workers compensation and taxation records as well as social media and posts on this and other forums.*


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## Ramah (Apr 25, 2017)

I wasn't aware of this but I came across it, might help if you would like to study here

https://www.education.gov.au/commonwealth-grant-scheme-cgs


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## pufferfish (Feb 24, 2017)

Why not go to New Zealand, as far I'm aware you'd be granted a 2 year WHV and if you get P.R/ Citizenship you'd be allowed into Australia with that. or you could move to Thailand , and become a Rep


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