# Should I wait longer before I lodge the defecto visa application?



## connieKero (Jun 13, 2012)

Hi! I am a newbie in this forum, just want some opinion for the application of defecto visa (820/801, onshore).
Here's my case, (I'll specifise the 'timeline' in my case, as I need some advices for when we should lodge our application)

I am from Hong Kong, my partner is an Australian.

We met in *Dec 2009* when I was on my working holiday visa, then we started living together since *Jan 2010*. During the working holiday visa, we moved once. We did have the lease of the first house (under his name), but we did not have a official lease for this second house as that was our friend's home.
My working holiday visa expired in *Nov 2010* and I went back to HK to get my student visa. My partner went to HK in *x'mas 2010 *to meet my family, then we went back to Australia together in *Jan 2011*.
After we came back to Australia, we moved to another house again, since then we have been living in this house for 1.5 years.

For this current house, we have 2 leases on hand, one is 0.5year under his name, and another one is 1year lease under both of our names. We are going to renew the lease for another year soon.We do not have an joint account/asset.
However, I did read the 'VERY UNOFFICIAL Defacto Visa Tips' in this forum, I think we can prove that we share our money on different expediture by going through & highlighting our bank statement.

The immigratio website also said:
"However, you may be granted a permanent visa without having to wait if you can demonstrate one of the following:
- at the time you apply for the visa, you have been in a married or de facto relationship with your partner for three years or more

- at the time you apply, you have been in a married or de facto relationship with your partner for two years or more, and there is a dependent child of your relationship

- your partner was granted a Protection visa or a permanent visa under the humanitarian program and you were in the relationship before the visa was granted and this had been declared to the department at the time."

So my question is should I lodge the application in *Jan 2013 *(next year), instead of right now? because we will be living together for 3 years by that time. If immigration believe that our relationship is genuine, may be I we don't need to wait for 2 years waiting period?

We actually planning to get married in late 2013, the reason for not rushing to get married now is because I want my family in HK to come to our wedding in Brisbane, (also don't want to get married for the sake of getting the visa).
I really wish the permanant visa can be granted quicker, as it's easier for me to get a nursing job after I graduate from uni, then we can start saving for our wedding easier.


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## ccpro (Feb 2, 2012)

Its really up to you when you wanna apply the partner. you have already met the requirement of applying the 820/801 visa. Since you are studying at the moment, you can wait till Jan 2013 to apply the visa. It doesnt hurt to wait because it does increase the chance of getting the 801 visa. However I heard that the chance of getting 801 like that wasnt that high. there are more compelling cases like people being married for 7 years and have kids and they got 801 visa instead of 820. 

If you apply now, you should get your visa when you graduate and then you can work. You will have to wait 2 years from the date that you apply to get PR. if you intend to stay in aus, it doesnt matter if you arent PR for a while in the long life in AUS. its just my opinion.


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## russellie (May 16, 2012)

It is up to you but I haven't heard of anyone with your situation being granted the PR straight away. Usually it is people with 5+ years marriage and children and even then I have heard some people with 7+ years marriage still having to wait the two years.

Plus a CO is unlikely to believe that your defacto relationship commenced one month after meeting - usually they expect to see a period of dating - 3-6 months usually is reasonable but then everyone is different. 
Good luck whichever way.


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## connieKero (Jun 13, 2012)

Thanks guys! That's helpful!

ccpro: I agree with what u said that as long as I am granted with 820 visa, i can stayand work. The reason why I want the PR to be granted quicker is that, public hospital & a lot of large private hosiptals/facilities only hire registered nurses who have PR. It's really frustrating when the representitives of the hospital are almost like, "Yes, it does not matter how good you perform in uni and placement, as long as you are not PR, we will not consider..."
Everyone thought that it's really easy to get a job if you are graduating as an RN, it's actually not the case for international student.

russellie: yeah, that's what I am worrying about too, especially we met on internet. I know some people tend to think that if you met online, you tend to be less serious/less geniue...(sigh). 

I think i'll probably lodge the application after I have money to pay the visa, coz I am currently saving another ten thousand dollars to pay for uni tuition fee. The life of saving up, studying and working is so hard, but it's my choice.

I have another questions: When will Immigration cancel my student visa(expired in Mar 2013)? As soon as I lodge the application? or After 820 is granted? Can I still travel after I lodge the application? I haven't go back home in HK for 2 years, I really wish to go back at least once after I graduate.


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## russellie (May 16, 2012)

Ahhh I understand now. Yes I sympathise, hospitals are not as all supportive of new graduates despite the fact they need them! Would you consider moving to regional Australia for a year? Regional hospitals generally tend to be less fussy - they can't afford to be!

Actually I think it is worth mentioning that you met on the internet - that would explain why you moved in together so fast. However I still think your chances of getting the visa granted on the 3 year basis are slim.

I'm not 100% certain about student visa stuff - my understanding is that your bridging visa for the 820/801 does not come into effect until your current visa has expired. So if your bridging visa A will kick in March 2013 with the same conditions as student visa - study rights and able to work 20hrs per week during semester etc. In order to travel on a bridging visa A you need to apply for bridging visa B - go to immigration, pay a fee and tell them you need to visit family. Once the 820 is granted you can still study but the work conditions (I believe) are removed.

If you submit a decision ready application your 820 may be granted by the time your student visa expires.

Can someone else confirm the above? I'm not 100% sure it's right. 
Cheers


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## connieKero (Jun 13, 2012)

russellie said:


> Ahhh I understand now. Yes I sympathise, hospitals are not as all supportive of new graduates despite the fact they need them! Would you consider moving to regional Australia for a year? Regional hospitals generally tend to be less fussy - they can't afford to be!
> 
> Actually I think it is worth mentioning that you met on the internet - that would explain why you moved in together so fast. However I still think your chances of getting the visa granted on the 3 year basis are slim.
> 
> ...


I see, I think I have read some posts which mentioned about the removal of work condtion of 820, I'll ask the immigration when I lodge the application.
Thanks for your help anyway.

I got the feelinig that the chance of granting PR without waiting period is pretty low. My partner's brother also married a foreign lady whom he met online. They even have a son, but I think they still need to wait for 2 years as they haven't married for very long time when they applied the visa. The poor little boy needed to wait in the other countries until he's 2 years old before he is allowed to live with his parent.
So for our case, it seems better to applied the visa as soon I can, that way I can start my waiting period ealier (hopefully).

Working in regional area is kind of hard to us, as he's been working in a large mining company in the Brisban city for few years, and the pay is pretty good. It's not easy to get a engineering draftsman job (not mining worker) out there. So we think it's better to stay.


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## ccpro (Feb 2, 2012)

I understand its now hard to get an RN job straight away as the gov made it difficult for the new graduating nurse students. If you have to stay in the main city and cant find a full time RN job, you can consider working part time in nursing home, age care home etc to gain experience. you can also volunteer. it all helps to put up a good cv. when you get ur PR then you will be ready to be hired. I said that because your partner seems to have a good stable income, it shouldnt be too much a problem of saving for a house. part time jobs may not pay you as good as full time but you arent wasting your time. you are saving a bit of money and having experience. i think its worth doing it.


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## ccpro (Feb 2, 2012)

btw about the student visa working hour, its a grey area when the BVA kicks in. you can work as much as you can between semesters when you are on school holiday with a student visa. I was told by an mirgration agent before that you can work as much as you want when the BVA kicks in when the student visa expires because you are 'not studying'. that means you are not limited to the working hour. that mirgration agent did offer to write me a letter saying i can work unlimited hours (I was on a student visa which led to BVA). 

Also it seems like the processing of partner visa will be slower right after the finanical year because the new regulations and quota start they have a whole year to slowly use up the quota. as you can see, I applied last August, i waited 9 months. Now people on the forum saying their visa got approved in a fews weeks even days! I did give them a detailed application and still ended up like this. There is something you need to know if you are from HKG. You cant apply the HK police check unless the CO requests it. thats why I had to wait for the CO to say something before I did the PC. And thats the reason y I didnt have a 'decision ready' case. Hope it helps.


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## connieKero (Jun 13, 2012)

ccpro:
Really appreciate your encouragement and helpful infomation.

Actually, I'm working as an part-time assistant in nursing (AIN) for agency since February this year. I work for different nursing homes, have been asking different facilities, some of them do hire international RN. For most of the agency I've heard of, they mainly hired RN who has at least 12 months experience. But, I'll try as hard as I can, I won't give up purely because "people said there's no hope to get a certain job'.

About the work condition, I always work full-time as soon as I start the semester break/ summer holiday. That's how I can afford uni.

Police check from HK? I thought I only need to do the PC in Australia, I did have a recent National police certificate ($47.65) for my AIN job, I know it's valid for 1 year only, and they have different kinds of police check, but not sure if mine is the one they need.

I guess what I need to do right now is to work hard and be patient.


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## russellie (May 16, 2012)

You will need a police check for any country you have lived in for 12 months or more.

You're doing everything right to try and get a job on graduating. Try and get cozy with the NUMs on the wards you do prac. Many of the grad positions in Brisbane Hospitals are promised long before you even make your application then the interview/application are a mere formality.


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## connieKero (Jun 13, 2012)

russellie said:


> You will need a police check for any country you have lived in for 12 months or more.
> 
> You're doing everything right to try and get a job on graduating. Try and get cozy with the NUMs on the wards you do prac. Many of the grad positions in Brisbane Hospitals are promised long before you even make your application then the interview/application are a mere formality.


I see, so that means I need both HK & Aus police checks.

My pracs are all in RBWH/PA hospital, and always in surgical ward. Particularly last prac, I got really good feedbacks from the staff, the facilitator said if they have place for grad programe in that ward, i definately have good chance to get it, * if I am a local*. Unfortunately, the NUM there is the old-school kind of nurse who will never talk to the students. 
So for the coming (last) prac, I choose a very similar ward in a large private hospital, I think it may increase my chance to get a grad position.
Even I don't get the grad position, it's not the end of the world. I still believe there are some ways to get a job, I just need to try extra hard than the local graduate.


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## russellie (May 16, 2012)

connieKero said:


> I see, so that means I need both HK & Aus police checks.
> 
> My pracs are all in RBWH/PA hospital, and always in surgical ward. Particularly last prac, I got really good feedbacks from the staff, the facilitator said if they have place for grad programe in that ward, i definately have good chance to get it, * if I am a local*. Unfortunately, the NUM there is the old-school kind of nurse who will never talk to the students.
> So for the coming (last) prac, I choose a very similar ward in a large private hospital, I think it may increase my chance to get a grad position.
> Even I don't get the grad position, it's not the end of the world. I still believe there are some ways to get a job, I just need to try extra hard than the local graduate.


It doesn't make any difference if you are local or international in regards to jobs - all students struggle to get a grad position. In my year in first round offers I knew more international students that got jobs than Australian citizens! All they care about is if you have unrestricted work rights.

Yes without a doubt apply for every hospital you can think of. Ramsey, the Wes, Brisbane Private in the city, Holy Spirit Northside, Sunnybank Private. With regards to QLD health, in our day we have to order hospitals in the preference we would want to work there and certain hospitals such as the PA and RBWH wouldn't consider you if you didn't put them first. So if the system is still the same make sure you only put one or the other.


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## connieKero (Jun 13, 2012)

russellie said:


> It doesn't make any difference if you are local or international in regards to jobs - all students struggle to get a grad position. In my year in first round offers I knew more international students that got jobs than Australian citizens! All they care about is if you have unrestricted work rights.
> 
> Yes without a doubt apply for every hospital you can think of. Ramsey, the Wes, Brisbane Private in the city, Holy Spirit Northside, Sunnybank Private. With regards to QLD health, in our day we have to order hospitals in the preference we would want to work there and certain hospitals such as the PA and RBWH wouldn't consider you if you didn't put them first. So if the system is still the same make sure you only put one or the other.


Just curious, how long ago when u applied the position? 
Another 'new' thing for international student to get the RN registration is that, we must get all 7s in ilets before applying to ANMC. I'm trying to get more than all 7s, as I got overall 7.5 before I came to Australia. I don't want to say the Immigration & ANMC are being too harsh to international students, but things getting a lot harder compared to few years ago.


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## russellie (May 16, 2012)

I understand very well the problems with the system since I have helped a number of new graduates navigate the system. The English requirement has been around for a long time. Nothing has changed in the last three years. I had to sit an English exam as well despite being an Australian citizen.
Three years ago I applied for grad positions. Very few of my graduating class managed to get jobs. I had to go rural to get a job.
You really have to get out of the mindset that everybody is against you. You're unlikely to get any sympathy from those in the system. Best just to suck it up and focus on finding a job. As you said, it was your choice to do Nursing, the tough conditions have been around for years so you knew what you were getting into before you began the program.


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## connieKero (Jun 13, 2012)

russellie said:


> I understand very well the problems with the system since I have helped a number of new graduates navigate the system. The English requirement has been around for a long time. Nothing has changed in the last three years. I had to sit an English exam as well despite being an Australian citizen.
> Three years ago I applied for grad positions. Very few of my graduating class managed to get jobs. I had to go rural to get a job.
> You really have to get out of the mindset that everybody is against you. You're unlikely to get any sympathy from those in the system. Best just to suck it up and focus on finding a job. As you said, it was your choice to do Nursing, the tough conditions have been around for years so you knew what you were getting into before you began the program.


Don't get me wrong, I didn't mean everybody is against me. I am really just curious how long ago you are talking about, didn't meant to challenge your comment. Maybe what I just said sound like I think Australian gov't or people are descriminate against me. But it's more like I am getting depressed when I feel I am not catching up for every single aspect of my life, e.g. money, work and studying. I know a lot of international students who are in the situation like I do. I know I am forturnate enough to have an Australian partner to help me. I think you know how expensive it is for international tuition fee for one semester (over AUS$10,000). My family can't afford to help me financially, and I am an adult, I should pay it myself if I want to study. 
I am still struggling to save enough for my final semester, if I can't make it, I will need to defer the last semester until I can afford it. Even my partner is earning a good pay, but it's hard to get so much money in 2 months. I will also try to apply for the only scholarship fo international student like me. I am blaming myself more than anyone else, that I am not work hard enough to get enough money.


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## connieKero (Jun 13, 2012)

russellie said:


> I understand very well the problems with the system since I have helped a number of new graduates navigate the system. The English requirement has been around for a long time. Nothing has changed in the last three years. I had to sit an English exam as well despite being an Australian citizen.
> Three years ago I applied for grad positions. Very few of my graduating class managed to get jobs. I had to go rural to get a job.
> You really have to get out of the mindset that everybody is against you. You're unlikely to get any sympathy from those in the system. Best just to suck it up and focus on finding a job. As you said, it was your choice to do Nursing, the tough conditions have been around for years so you knew what you were getting into before you began the program.


Also, I sincerely apologize if what I said was offending you.


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## russellie (May 16, 2012)

No, it doesn't offend me but I do see far too many posts on these types of forums where international students seem to think that they are entitled to many things that if reciprocated, it would be unimaginable for an Australian citizen to get in their home country. 

Think about how difficult it is for an Australian nurse to work in the UK, the UK, Canada or even Hong Kong. Australia is actually one of the easiest countries (and by far the cheapest) for international students to study and find a job after in. It is one of the few countries where the majority of graduates will find some sort of employment. Go on any nursing forum and see the hundreds of posts by UK, US, Canadian and many from Asian countries' nursing graduates asking for information about coming to Australia to do a new grad program. Why? Because there just aren't jobs overseas.

So I have made my suggestions: Look towards regional Australia. Your partner will have no trouble getting a job anywhere in Australia. Perhaps he can sacrifice one year in Brisbane so that you can get some experience. 

I know the system seems unfair but when you actually research how overseas countries treat immigrants you'll find Australia is one of the easiest to live and work. Better to be grateful you have (almost) guaranteed entry to Australia through your partner.


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## connieKero (Jun 13, 2012)

russellie said:


> No, it doesn't offend me but I do see far too many posts on these types of forums where international students seem to think that they are entitled to many things that if reciprocated, it would be unimaginable for an Australian citizen to get in their home country.
> 
> Think about how difficult it is for an Australian nurse to work in the UK, the UK, Canada or even Hong Kong. Australia is actually one of the easiest countries (and by far the cheapest) for international students to study and find a job after in. It is one of the few countries where the majority of graduates will find some sort of employment. Go on any nursing forum and see the hundreds of posts by UK, US, Canadian and many from Asian countries' nursing graduates asking for information about coming to Australia to do a new grad program. Why? Because there just aren't jobs overseas.
> 
> ...


Fair enough, but I think if a person can't speak Cantoness and read chinese fluently, it's almost impossible to work as a RN in HK, coz our first language is Cantones. It's really 'intertesting' that, even I am HK citizens, hospital in HK won't recognize my RN degree in Australia, and I need to go through another tough qualify exam (which hold once a year, u can only have 3 attempts), and the passing rate is really really low. I am not sure about whether Australia is the cheapest country to study at the moment, coz I found the Australian dollar is getting more expensive, and have never dropped below the price when I first came here.
Just let you know, I haven never take 'getting a job after graduate' for granted, and I do not wanted to be labelled as a lazy immigrant who came to Australia to claim gov't benefit without any contribution. If I can't get over it, stop whinging, go back Hong Kong, right?

Anyway, still appreciate you are trying to give me advice on the visa and getting a nursing job in Australia.
I guess you understand exactly how it feels to be a foreigner in other country from your experiences in all these forum.


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## russellie (May 16, 2012)

Exactly, so you understand that it is incredibly difficult for Australians to work in HK and every other country in the world however it is incredibly easy in comparison for overseas nurses to work in Australia, and yes it is cheap. Try doing nursing in the US, UK or Canada. Why do you think they come here?
Anyway, we're flogging a dead horse here. You know all this and it isn't what the forum is about. Plenty of other places to vent if you still want to.


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