# Refusal of Partner visa 309



## ahamidkhan2003 (Jan 20, 2016)

Hello Dear
I need an expert advice, if some one can give me please. My partner visa 309 has been refused because of Rukhsati, that she did not spend enough time with me. We both are in stress, and do not know what to do next. We are planing to apply visitor visa, and we have two choices left either contact to Terbunal AAP or apply again . which is the best option. That she can come here as quick as possible. please guide us.


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## Arabella (Sep 18, 2015)

It's probably best for you to speak to a registered migration agent who's qualified to look at this.

CCMS, Mark Northam and Jeremy Hooper are a few on this forum.


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

What country is the applicant from?

AAT is a long wait 12+ months where a fresh application could be shorter (depending where she is from). If you can't spend time together then you will most likely see the same fate again.

Is there any reason why the sponsor didn't go and spend some time with the applicant?


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## ahamidkhan2003 (Jan 20, 2016)

How can i find them and How can I contact them. what is there consultation fee.


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## ahamidkhan2003 (Jan 20, 2016)

Mish said:


> What country is the applicant from?
> 
> AAT is a long wait 12+ months where a fresh application could be shorter (depending where she is from). If you can't spend time together then you will most likely see the same fate again.
> 
> Is there any reason why the sponsor didn't go and spend some time with the applicant?


She is from Pakistan.
Actually, I have spent already spent all my annual leaves my on marriage, my job was new and no leave left behind, and what I had I just kept to spend with my partner when she will join me here. I am applying visit visa so she can come here and join me and then go back and wait for the visa 309.If I apply again.


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

Ahhh high risk country. They expect more evidence from high risk country.

You may have to try for a family sponsored tourist visa as a standard may not be approved. Even then with a recent 309 rejection they may not approve the tourist visa. With tourist visa's from high risk country it is a 50/50 chance it will get approved/rejected.

Hypothetically, if she didn't get a tourist visa what would you do?


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## ahamidkhan2003 (Jan 20, 2016)

Mish said:


> Ahhh high risk country. They expect more evidence from high risk country.
> 
> You may have to try for a family sponsored tourist visa as a standard may not be approved. Even then with a recent 309 rejection they may not approve the tourist visa. With tourist visa's from high risk country it is a 50/50 chance it will get approved/rejected.
> 
> Hypothetically, if she didn't get a tourist visa what would you do?


Hi Mish thanks taking interest in it, actually am asking to you expert people what should do I do now in this situation. I know what dose it mean high risk country, more evidences, I have all evidences but not enough for partner visa, but for family sponsored tourist visa I do have more than enough, but I submitted what they wanted to. If they request for pics and video , I can provide to them.


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

The onus is on us as applicants and sponsors to provide enough evidence. DIBP are not required to ask for more evidence.

There was a case recently where they were rejected as 309 and AAT agrees with the rejection too. The reason was the same as you - not enough time together.

I suggest a consult with one of the migration agents on this forum they should be able to help you and suggest evidence thaf you are missing for the partner visa.

Unfortunately for tourist visa's it comes down if they will overstay or not. I have seen a husband and wife apply and only one was approved. There is one forum member where his wife had to leave one of her children behind as that was the only way they would grant the tourist visa.

There is alot more evidence for a partner visa than pictures there are 4 categories that need to be met.


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## ahamidkhan2003 (Jan 20, 2016)

Mish said:


> The onus is on us as applicants and sponsors to provide enough evidence. DIBP are not required to ask for more evidence.
> 
> There was a case recently where they were rejected as 309 and AAT agrees with the rejection too. The reason was the same as you - not enough time together.
> 
> ...


Thanks Mish, In my case most of the evidences my immigration agent did not forward to DIBP, they just hold with him and wait for the DIBP to ask him to provide other documents. I was really very angry on my immigration agent. he did not provide my financial support to my wife documents, my house documents, my video move as well. So I have bad experience with immigration agents, I do not know on this forum what kind of Immigration agents are. I visited 8 countries and applied 5 visa while I was in Australia, none was rejected. But this I applied via immigration agent and it has been rejected. So I have less faith on immigration agent.


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## JandE (Jul 17, 2015)

ahamidkhan2003 said:


> . So I have less faith on immigration agent.


Use a MARA registered agent only. The ones on this site are registered.


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## ahamidkhan2003 (Jan 20, 2016)

JandE said:


> Use a MARA registered agent only. The ones on this site are registered.


I am new on this forum so i do not know how do i find them. And how do i need to talk to them and what is there fee and how do i get their appointment. By the way, my case has been refused that was done by MARA Registered agent. And when I doubt his expertise , he got angry and refuse to do further proceedings.


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

Mark Northam
Registered Migration Agent - MARN 1175508
Northam & Associates
Sydney, Australia
http://mnvisa.com[email protected]

CCMS:
Nick van Voorst
Registered Migration Agent 0640648

http://www.coralcoastmigrationservice.com.au/

WRussell:
Westly Russell
Registered Migration Agent
Number 0316072
pinoyau.com

JeremyHooper:
Jeremy W Hooper*BEng MSc Grad Dip App Finance Dip Australian Migration Law MMIA MMA, MM&EA
MARN 0107902

[email protected]

Usually DIBP does not except videos.

You did not proof what was getting sent to DIBP? When I used an agent that is what I did.

You will need to contact the agents they don't disclose their fees on this forum.

You can also report your MARA agent to the migration board if you are not happy with their services.

Immigration to Australia is one of the toughest in the world. I have heard of people being able to get tourist visas to lots of countries (including UK and USA) yet can't get a tourist visa to Australia.


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## Island Girl (Mar 31, 2014)

ahamidkhan2003 said:


> Hello Dear
> I need an expert advice, if some one can give me please. My partner visa 309 has been refused because of Rukhsati, that she did not spend enough time with me. We both are in stress, and do not know what to do next. We are planing to apply visitor visa, and we have two choices left either contact to Terbunal AAP or apply again . which is the best option. That she can come here as quick as possible. please guide us.


Review at the AAT takes between 12 and 18 months. Unfortunately since you and your wife did not get the chance to spend much time together and collect evidence for all 4 categories, the chances for a successful review is slim. However, perhaps reapplying for another Partner visa would bring about a positive outcome. God Willing.

On another note, I suggest for you to visit Mark Northam's website at www.mnvisa.com or email him at [email protected]. His contacts are all on his website. You could call him to get a professional advice.

My honest humble advice is if you could spend a few weeks in Pakistan to be at close proximity to your wife, you could build up some strong evidence. Second option is applying for a family sponsored visa. Upon approval, your wife could come to Australia. Once she is here, do the following before lodging an offshore (subclass 309) Partner visa:

1. Name her as the beneficiary of your Superannuation (Evidence for Nature of Commitment)

2. Buy Last Will packet for couples. It is sold at $33 at Australia Post. Note each other as Executives of your "estates" (Commitment)

3. Add her name on your car insurance, utility bills, house, mobile phone, home & contents insurance, life insurance (Joint Liability)

4. Open a joint bank account and keep it active - buy groceries & pay bills using this account (Commitment & Financial)

5. Keep sending her money and contacting her over the course of the future application (Commitment & Financial)

6. Take lots of photos together with family and friends (Social Aspect)

7. Apply for a credit card and add her as a secondary card holder (Joint Liability - Financial)

8. Buy household (white goods) and electric appliances on both names (Nature of Household)

9. Apply for a Photo ID for your wife using your home addess in Australia (Commitment)

10. Help her with some household chores. Add this to you & your wife's statements on the Nature of your Household)

11. Read and understand the Partner Booklet available for download from the Immigration website

Bare in mind that the Evidence in all 4 categories (Social, Financial, Nature of Household and Nature of Commitment) should exist at the time of your future application.

Wishing you and your wife all the best! Take a deep breath and try to relax.


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

Island Girl said:


> My honest humble advice is if you could spend a few weeks in Pakistan to be at close proximity to your wife, you could build up some strong evidence. Second option is applying for a family sponsored visa. Upon approval, your wife could come to Australia. Once she is here, do the following before lodging an onshore (subclass 820) or offshore (subclass 309) Partner visa:


IF she got a family sponsored visa an 820 is not an option as all family sponsored visas come with a NFS (no further stay) clause.


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## Island Girl (Mar 31, 2014)

Mish said:


> IF she got a family sponsored visa an 820 is not an option as all family sponsored visas come with a NFS (no further stay) clause.


Okay. I did not know. Thanks.


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## Maggie-May24 (Jul 24, 2011)

It's unfortunate you've had a bad experience with a migration agent, as most of the time using one will be very helpful. However there are a lot of non-registered "agents" out there and you have little assurance they know what they are doing.

I'd strongly recommend you contact one of the migration agents Mish has posted above. They all post regularly on this forum, they are all very knowledgeable and professional, and I'd have no hesitation to use any of them if needed. For a small consultation fee, they would review your situation and could give you an opinion on what options you have and which may be the best for you to go with. If you then go on to use them for those next steps, that is up to you. Good luck.


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## ampk (Sep 21, 2013)

How long have you been married? How long been in Australia.


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## CCMS (Oct 10, 2013)

ahamidkhan2003 said:


> Thanks Mish, In my case most of the evidences my immigration agent did not forward to DIBP, they just hold with him and wait for the DIBP to ask him to provide other documents. I was really very angry on my immigration agent. he did not provide my financial support to my wife documents, my house documents, my video move as well. So I have bad experience with immigration agents, I do not know on this forum what kind of Immigration agents are. I visited 8 countries and applied 5 visa while I was in Australia, none was rejected. But this I applied via immigration agent and it has been rejected. So I have less faith on immigration agent.


If your migration agent has failed to forward the documentation you have provided and that has resulted in a refusal , you may well be able to lodge a complaint against them. The days of sitting back and waiting for DIBP to request the required documentation are long gone.

Sent from my iPhone using Australia


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## ahamidkhan2003 (Jan 20, 2016)

*Mish*



Mish said:


> Mark Northam
> Registered Migration Agent - MARN 1175508
> Northam & Associates
> Sydney, Australia
> ...


I did call to immigration agent and asked if she had provide my documents of financial support to DIBP , on phone she told no she did not, when they will ask then she will provide to the DIBP. When refusal came they mentioned that point , that I did not support my partner financially. I sent mail after refusal but they did not answer me for that question.

I must have that mail in sent items, and mail what I wrote after refusal is also in my mail box. I will share on this forum, after taking off the name of everybody because of privacy, so every body know what we have discussed. 
By the way thanks for your reply, can you send me the link where I can complain my agent. How much will it cost and how many days will it take. Thanks


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## ahamidkhan2003 (Jan 20, 2016)

Island Girl said:


> Review at the AAT takes between 12 and 18 months. Unfortunately since you and your wife did not get the chance to spend much time together and collect evidence for all 4 categories, the chances for a successful review is slim. However, perhaps reapplying for another Partner visa would bring about a positive outcome. God Willing.
> 
> On another note, I suggest for you to visit Mark Northam's website at Northam & Associates or email him at [email protected]. His contacts are all on his website. You could call him to get a professional advice.
> 
> ...


Yes you are right, I am planning fly back to Pakistan and stay with her definitely. I did apply already Relative sponsored stream visa 600 and waiting for its outcome. Hope it will be in my favor. Because it dose not have lot of requirements like partner visa, I do not mind if she has to go back and I am happy to provide bond as well, as long as they are going to provide visa. I can not see any thing what hinder to grant visa. But if you have any idea please let me know. Thanks for your reply and guiding me. Definitely I will do what you have told me.


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## ahamidkhan2003 (Jan 20, 2016)

ampk said:


> How long have you been married? How long been in Australia.


I married first week of May 2014, And my flight back was after 3 days of my wedding. I been her since 2008. After marriage I could not visit back , because of job, new house which I bought for me and my wife to stay together. And I saved my leaves so we can enjoy our fist days of marriage here in Australia and go for Honey Moon.


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

ahamidkhan2003 said:


> I married first week of May 2014, And my flight back was after 3 days of my wedding. I been her since 2008. After marriage I could not visit back , because of job, new house which I bought for me and my wife to stay together. And I saved my leaves so we can enjoy our fist days of marriage here in Australia and go for Honey Moon.


So you haven't seen her since May 2014? That is a really long time! If that is the case I can see why they rejected the visa.


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## ahamidkhan2003 (Jan 20, 2016)

CCMS said:


> If your migration agent has failed to forward the documentation you have provided and that has resulted in a refusal , you may well be able to lodge a complaint against them. The days of sitting back and waiting for DIBP to request the required documentation are long gone.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Australia


Dear CCMS
Yes they also written one of the reason financial support evidences showed that I only finance till April 2014 (while my marriage held on May 2014) . After that I kept sending her money on different occasion and at one stage I kept continues sending her money 5-7 months when she resigned the job and hoping we will get visa. But unfortunately my Immigration agent she did not consider it as important . If she had forwarded it, out comes could be opposite. I if I want to complain about my immigration agent Please could you let me know the procedure.

I will share my mail what i have sent to immi agent after refusal. I will take off the name for privacy reasons. But at least you people have an idea, what has been done to me by immigration agent.


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## ampk (Sep 21, 2013)

I think your agent has not done you well and they would have known how long separated you have been. I can also see why rejected - good reason while being apart is required.


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## ahamidkhan2003 (Jan 20, 2016)

Mish said:


> So you haven't seen her since May 2014? That is a really long time! If that is the case I can see why they rejected the visa.


Ok, you are right but you know time passed so quick, first 6 months to collect documents, and then applying visa and after visa we were hoping in 6 months we will get visa, but it keep extending and every month we were thinking we will get visa. When ever they asked for documents we consider visa is going to be granted, and time passed so quick.


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## Aussie83 (Oct 15, 2015)

How long and what contact did you have with your wife before the wedding?


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## ahamidkhan2003 (Jan 20, 2016)

Aussie83 said:


> How long and what contact did you have with your wife before the wedding?


we met on internet and start talking on it, Skype and vibe every day , sent messages by mobile and come to end to get marry. I talk to her parents and family a, they talk to my family as well. Then we fix the date of marriage and did in 5 star hotel, we did* hina* functions at home, and wedding in hotel. DIBP consider every thing is correct except we did not spent enough time together.


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

Financial is just one of the reasons you were rejected the other one was not visiting each other. Yes the migration agent did wrong by not giving them the financial evidence but they can't change the fact that you didn't visit each other.

The embassy knows that in Australia we get 4 weeks leave a year. They would expect to see you visit for those 4 weeks. Not seeing each other for almost 2 years is a very long time.


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## Aussie83 (Oct 15, 2015)

Best of luck to you but the wording for many of the points is to prove a genuine and ongoing relationship, which from little personal contact is hard to do.
Arranged marriages are possible but you need to prove it does work.
I've seen people say to get pregnant as it makes it easier and baby other things but it is all garbage.
Best bet is to spend time together. Her here on a couple of tourist visas and you there is your best option. Long expensive process.
No doubt about it meant of us have done it, but depending on the circumstances it can all be worth it


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## ahamidkhan2003 (Jan 20, 2016)

Aussie83 said:


> Best of luck to you but the wording for many of the points is to prove a genuine and ongoing relationship, which from little personal contact is hard to do.
> Arranged marriages are possible but you need to prove it does work.
> I've seen people say to get pregnant as it makes it easier and baby other things but it is all garbage.
> Best bet is to spend time together. Her here on a couple of tourist visas and you there is your best option. Long expensive process.
> No doubt about it meant of us have done it, but depending on the circumstances it can all be worth it


Thanks we had applied a visa 600 after refusal of 309 last month, lets see what they decide. Last visa I applied in Islamabad but this visa I applied in here Sydney Subclass 600 so she can come here and visit me and live with me.


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## ampk (Sep 21, 2013)

You need serious help. Contact Mark Northam (the only one I can personally say is great - others seem but I have not used them).

It is a tough call as I think both have faults - your application and your agents submission.

Australia custom is to be with partner at almost any cost. 3 days after wedding not good, buy house instead of have wife not good (many would sell house to be with wife) and apart 20 months not seem as much commitment.


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## ahamidkhan2003 (Jan 20, 2016)

ampk said:


> You need serious help. Contact Mark Northam (the only one I can personally say is great - others seem but I have not used them).
> 
> It is a tough call as I think both have faults - your application and your agents submission.
> 
> Australia custom is to be with partner at almost any cost. 3 days after wedding not good, buy house instead of have wife not good (many would sell house to be with wife) and apart 20 months not seem as much commitment.


ok , thanks for reply. This we did not know all about, how dose it works, and how visa and what visa should we apply. In my case, we hire immigration agent, he did not explain to us the whole process and things what we need to do. In my culture if you marry a woman, it means you marry for every whole time (unless we divorce), so we did not know much about this tricky things, immigration agent should guide us step by step, while we both have written whole story to him and told him all thing clearly and accurately what happened in my scenario. Immi agent had recommended the visa for us and we paid what ever he told us about his fee. We were not expert in visas so thats reason we hire a immi agent.


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## ampk (Sep 21, 2013)

To call or email see link.

Northam & Associates


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## Aussie83 (Oct 15, 2015)

Where you apply from has little bearing, it is based in country if origin based on your passport


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## CCMS (Oct 10, 2013)

ahamidkhan2003 said:


> I did call to immigration agent and asked if she had provide my documents of financial support to DIBP , on phone she told no she did not, when they will ask then she will provide to the DIBP. When refusal came they mentioned that point , that I did not support my partner financially. I sent mail after refusal but they did not answer me for that question. I must have that mail in sent items, and mail what I wrote after refusal is also in my mail box. I will share on this forum, after taking off the name of everybody because of privacy, so every body know what we have discussed. By the way thanks for your reply, can you send me the link where I can complain my agent. How much will it cost and how many days will it take. Thanks


https://www.mara.gov.au/using-an-ag...h-your-agent/make-a-complaint-about-an-agent/

Sent from my iPhone using Australia


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## JandE (Jul 17, 2015)

ampk said:


> Australia custom is to be with partner at almost any cost. 3 days after wedding not good, buy house instead of have wife not good (many would sell house to be with wife) and apart 20 months not seem as much commitment.


That made me smile... I sold my house so I could stay with my fiancee in her country, until we could get her here. 
Now I bought a cheaper house


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## ampk (Sep 21, 2013)

I Did 24 rounds with Ali back to back and spent around $80K with the 2 kids<

house was not a thought family was.


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## ahamidkhan2003 (Jan 20, 2016)

JandE said:


> That made me smile... I sold my house so I could stay with my fiancee in her country, until we could get her here.
> Now I bought a cheaper house


I bought a house so she will come in her house , it was her wish that if we buy our house before she move here so we could start our life in a very new own house. We were thinking everything will go in right direction and smooth, so I wanted to pleased her that is the reason I bought a house.


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## remik (Jan 15, 2016)

This your agent was unconscious
It wrote ampk write to Mark


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## ampk (Sep 21, 2013)

You both think a house is a good thing.

A home is much better.

but The Castle is the best.


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

On the back of a refused 309 the chances of a successful family sponsored tourist visa are slim.

Are you aware that there is a time limit in which you can appeal to AAT?

Have you taken any leave at work or do you still have all your leave - approximately 7 weeks by my calcs.


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## ampk (Sep 21, 2013)

remik. Mark would have been lucky to have made much more than $10-15 per hour on our applications.


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## remik (Jan 15, 2016)

The life is able to be so convoluted that indeed it is hard to understand it for everyone.
our life plus the agent plus the office australii and with times result zero.


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## ahamidkhan2003 (Jan 20, 2016)

Mish said:


> On the back of a refused 309 the chances of a successful family sponsored tourist visa are slim.
> 
> Are you aware that there is a time limit in which you can appeal to AAT?
> 
> Have you taken any leave at work or do you still have all your leave - approximately 7 weeks by my calcs.


Yes Mish, I do know that AAT time is quite limited, my time will be over 6th of Feb. But I do not wanna go in to it, to me it is just another refusal, on what bases should I go there. My future plan is, I will wait for few weeks more , until i get my outcome of Visit visa. If I we get positive result, then she will fly here and live in her new home, and we will start our life from our new home, but if we get negative result then I will apply 309 again while I will be here in Australia and fly back and stay with her for 2- 3 months. What they only need spend bit time with her.


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## ahamidkhan2003 (Jan 20, 2016)

Mish said:


> On the back of a refused 309 the chances of a successful family sponsored tourist visa are slim.
> 
> Are you aware that there is a time limit in which you can appeal to AAT?
> 
> Have you taken any leave at work or do you still have all your leave - approximately 7 weeks by my calcs.


Hi Mish please say positive things , please do not say negative. My gut feeling says I will get it.


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## ampk (Sep 21, 2013)

" What they only need spend bit time with her. "

No anyone can do that.

You need prove you love her. 

Like the difference between having sex and making love or worse rape.


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## JandE (Jul 17, 2015)

309 Visa:

You must live with your partner or, if you do not, any separation must be only temporary.
https://www.border.gov.au/Trav/Visa-1/309-


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## ampk (Sep 21, 2013)

Yes JandE things a "registered MRA" would know.

Would love to know their # if they are actually that. Personally I think not.


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

ahamidkhan2003 said:


> Hi Mish please say positive things , please do not say negative. My gut feeling says I will get it.


Would you rather we sugar coat it for you and say yes you will get the visa when we know that there is only a slim chance it will be approved? Slim means that there is still a chance it will be approved but not to be disappointed if it gets rejected. What happens then if you don't get it? Then you say that we said you will get it. With visa's there is no certainty that you will get it. With Australia tourist visa's are even more unpredictable for high risk people. A member of this forum her then fiancé was told that they would never give him a tourist visa so stop applying even though he met all the requirements.

Nobody knows if it will be approved or not but it is better to think there is a possibility that you may not get then getting your hopes up high.

If you spend enough time on this forum you will see people get rejected for family sponsored tourist visa's infact we saw 2 rejected just before Christmas.

The number one thing they look at is her reason to leave Australia after the visa ends.

A friend of mine had a 309 rejection she applied for a family sponsored tourist visa for her husband for the birth of their child and it was rejected. One of the reasons was that he had stronger family ties to Australia then his home country.


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

You have to remember that after a refused 309 they look at the new 309 more carefully. You really need a better MARA agent for your next one to be able to address all the issues. I highly recommend the ones on this forum.

A friend of mine her husband's 309 was refused then about 18 months later they applied for a 461 visa (relationship with a NZ) because they were afraid of rejection again and didn't want to waste alot of money if rejected. They had since had a baby and they both got asked alot of questions during the 461 visa. It was looked at more thoroughly because of the rejection.


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## Maggie-May24 (Jul 24, 2011)

Unfortunately I think it's highly likely your visitor visa would be refused because of the refusal of your partner visa, but you may as well wait to see the outcome and keep your fingers crossed.

To lodge your new 309 application, I would suggest you get a new migration agent. Your current agent doesn't seem to have handled your case very well, and you've obviously lost faith in them. There are several very good agents on this forum, including CCMS who has posted on this thread. I would not hesitate to use any one of them, so I'd suggest you contact one to arrange a consultation.

Couples in arranged marriages do get partner visas, as DIBP is familiar with this custom in many countries. But you do need to make sure you address the requirements of the visa application (financial, commitment, household, etc.) The fact that you've spent so little time with your wife will make your application more challenging, but a good migration agent will give you guidance on how to address this in your situation.


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## CCMS (Oct 10, 2013)

Having dealt with similar scenarios for Pakistani applicants,my advice is that you really need to go back to the drawing board and work out a good strategy with the correct supporting evidence.

A tourist visa application should also be achievable once a new application has been lodged ( if there is no merit in an appeal).

The chances of getting a tourist visa or family sponsored visitor visa approved under the current circumstances are practically zero.

If your agent has demonstrably stuffed up your application, demand a refund and payment of damages.Mind you, I only go by what you are saying about the agent. I don't like pointing the finger at anyone without knowing all the relevant facts. Agents are usually the first ones to be blamed if things don't work out for whatever reason.


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## ahamidkhan2003 (Jan 20, 2016)

CCMS said:


> Having dealt with similar scenarios for Pakistani applicants,my advice is that you really need to go back to the drawing board and work out a good strategy with the correct supporting evidence.
> 
> A tourist visa application should also be achievable once a new application has been lodged ( if there is no merit in an appeal).
> 
> ...


THIS IS THE MAIL I HAVE WRITTEN AFTER I GOT REFUSAL LETTER

Dear (name of Agent), To be honest, that outcome we were not expecting at all from a very expert migration agent. This outcome can be get without any efforts. It is a big disappointment from your side. It is lot easier for you to write down the mail to send us, but it is very hard for us to digest this bad news, after waiting longtime for visa be granted. You know this kind of decision can put life of effected person on risk, who do not have enough courage to bear this kind of ugly and bad news to hear. 
Definitely we both (me and My wife name) were remained in shock for last couple of days and still we are in to it. this situation mentally depressed both of us and disappointed us. We are just keep thinking what we do next.

Dear (Agent name), If i will be very honest, I will definitely say it to you, the way outcome came out, is shows that you have not gone through my application properly and situation. and did not give enough time to my case to understand first, you and (another agent name who works with him) did not try to understand situations of both of us, or you did not read policy of immigration department perfectly. Or you did not know the definition of spouse or de facto, or you had confuse picture of cultures, that is the reason you could not guide us properly. Otherwise submitting a paper from one hand to other was not a big deal. 
There are only two things what I can understand after getting this outcome that you have very less expertise in this field, or you were so busy in other things that you could not give enough time to go through the case properly before deciding or diagnosing what visa will be the best in our situation. These out comes are totally not acceptable after spending huge amount of money and precious time.

Even you could not tell us what visa will be the most suitable for us. I went through whole attached file which you have sent it to me, I do realize after reading whole decision record copy which shows that marriage paper are original, nikah nama is original and registration of Nikah nama is original as well, and he acknowledge my friends and (my wife name is here)'s work mate s comments and paper that they are ok to him, he acknowledge our phone calls contact and Skype contact as well. He understood that our nikah ceremoney is done in hotel , and hinna has done in a informal way in housel because we have provided evidences. 
Few thing even he understood and he written that like living togather, or sharing house or bills or household things or spending money on household items and sharing accounts was simply not possible because (my wife name) was not here in Australia.

He has only objection we did not spend time together or did Rukhsati. what is Rkhsati??? rukhsati is after nika women is allowed to go to husband' s house and live with his forever. So in (my wife name is here)'s case her husband house is in Australia, so rukhsati was not subjected to be on condition of visa it was subjected to when and how she could come Husband's house, its very simple to understand , she could come her husband's house after getting visa because her husband house is in Australia and that she was waiting for to get visa and come to her husband house. If she dose not have any visa how can she come and stay her husband's house.

Even I born in (my mother country name is here), and lived in (my mother country name is here) more than other part of world but it dose not mean I should have house in (my mother country name is here) And I went there for only few days for marriage, and did the important rituals what were most important for marriage after rukhsati where would she stayed, In (my mother country name is here) culture, rukhsati is not a big thing NIKAH is a big big thing, after nikha , it is couple decision when they have to go. But if Rukhsati was a big thing for this visa and immigration point of view, you must have to tell us what is definition of spouse in immigration point of view.

Being an expert and professional, you mus have t told us after going through our case, what we need and what we are missing in our documents to be fulfilled . how can we get the desired results. we both me and (my wife name is there) have told you everything and even write down every thing in our story. We mentioned each and everything , we did not hide and did not try to mislead you. The purpose was to give you true picture so you can decide what visa will be most appropriate for us. 
We hired your services and paid what every you uttered , even we did not bargain on it, we paid as you told , we did not delayed at all. After hiring you for our case we were satisfied that this is the right person who can deal with our case.We even did not think again to study that visa, if we had to do all then why would we pay you this big amount of money in the form "immigration agent fee"

If visiting visa was part of this process then you must have emphasis us or tell us importance of that visa. This the genius relations and only because of lack of understanding made our future dark. I could go (My mother country name) if I knew that my visit is as important for the immigration point of view.

He also wrote about financial support to (My wife name here), and case officer mentioned that he received receipts of financial support to (My wife name is here) till April 2014 receipt, while I have sent heaps of receipts to (another immigration agent name who works with him), but she did not forward to him,even I asked her either she has forwarded copy of receipts of finance to spouse evidence she simply said if case officer will ask then she will send it to him. (its quite simple rule, more evidences are better than less), you people should be more proactive rather than sitting lay back and waiting for refusal of visa.

I bought a house here in (City name where I live now) and I included (my wife name is here) s name as well, mentioning as my wife. If some one has asked for further evidence I must provide them this house registration copy which was another prove.

And the most annoying thing you even did not call us and let us know, you simply sent us mail and kept quite, I called (an other agent name is here who work with him) on Monday morning , she told she is not aware of it" why visa is been refused" because she was not in the office on Friday while Monday she told (Actual agent name is there) is not in the office, I called three times last few days and every time it goes on record message, so who do we talk to???. This is kind of nonprofessional behavior.

As an abstract , I will say you both are on fault u both people, I want compensation for my money, for my time, emotions what you have ruined, stress what we face during all this process, and depression what we are feeling now.


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

Are you legally married? You mention Nikkah, Nikkah is not valid in Australia. It needs to be a legal marriage certificate.

Is your agent registered? Are they recently registered? The first 2 numbers will tell us what year they were registered.

Did you consult the agent before you married? When my husband and I got engaged and wanted to do the visa we consulted with an agent and was told to apply for a PMV and under no circumstances were we to get married unless we could live together after marriage for atleast 4 months to gather evidence.


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## JandE (Jul 17, 2015)

Mish said:


> When my husband and I got engaged and wanted to do the visa we consulted with an agent and was told to apply for a PMV and under no circumstances were we to get married unless we could live together after marriage for atleast 4 months to gather evidence.


I was basically the same as you, and had been living together for 10 months before applying for PMV.


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## ampk (Sep 21, 2013)

Good point - Are you legally married? You mention Nikkah, Nikkah is not valid in Australia.


If so you have requirements for PMV.


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## ahamidkhan2003 (Jan 20, 2016)

Mish said:


> Are you legally married? You mention Nikkah, Nikkah is not valid in Australia. It needs to be a legal marriage certificate.
> 
> Is your agent registered? Are they recently registered? The first 2 numbers will tell us what year they were registered.
> 
> Did you consult the agent before you married? When my husband and I got engaged and wanted to do the visa we consulted with an agent and was told to apply for a PMV and under no circumstances were we to get married unless we could live together after marriage for at least 4 months to gather evidence.


Actually Question for Nikah is legal or not legal in Australia is not a topic we are talking here, it is been accepted and without this, marriage is not considered marriage in lot of countries of the world. My marriage is legal what DIBP accepted as well. Only issue came we did not spent enough time together. Rest I told in my mail conversation with my IMMI agent. 
Immi agent is experienced guy , because he did my last visa for me successfully, may be he had lot of expertise in those kind of visas, but this visa he just accepted , may be I was his client, but I think he did not have lot of expertise in this visa. My agent is been working since 2003 so he has 13 years experience as well as he registered immigration agent, otherwise I would not pay him heaps of money definitely.


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## ahamidkhan2003 (Jan 20, 2016)

ampk said:


> Good point - Are you legally married? You mention Nikkah, Nikkah is not valid in Australia.
> 
> If so you have requirements for PMV.


Actually Question for Nikah is legal or not legal in Australia is not a topic we are talking here, it is been accepted and without this, marriage is not considered marriage in lot of countries of the world. My marriage is legal what DIBP accepted as well


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## ahamidkhan2003 (Jan 20, 2016)

Mish said:


> Are you legally married? You mention Nikkah, Nikkah is not valid in Australia. It needs to be a legal marriage certificate.
> 
> Is your agent registered? Are they recently registered? The first 2 numbers will tell us what year they were registered.
> 
> Did you consult the agent before you married? When my husband and I got engaged and wanted to do the visa we consulted with an agent and was told to apply for a PMV and under no circumstances were we to get married unless we could live together after marriage for atleast 4 months to gather evidence.


I did consult my agent before marriage and ask him what and how do we do. I have his mail in my record where he offered me to sign the contract before leaving Australia so he can start his processes to look for form and questioner and other things so thing compile faster.


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## ahamidkhan2003 (Jan 20, 2016)

ampk said:


> Good point - Are you legally married? You mention Nikkah, Nikkah is not valid in Australia.
> 
> If so you have requirements for PMV.


What is PMV, is it (perspective marriage Visa) ???


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## JandE (Jul 17, 2015)

Prospective marriage Visa. Subclass 300


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## ahamidkhan2003 (Jan 20, 2016)

JandE said:


> Prospective marriage Visa. Subclass 300


Can I apply on this stage, even case officer aslo mentioned this, if I would have applied for that visa , outcome could be bit different.


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

ahamidkhan2003 said:


> Can I apply on this stage, even case officer aslo mentioned this, if I would have applied for that visa , outcome could be bit different.


Is your marriage valid or not? You said before the case officer had no issues with your marriage and now you are saying they said they mentioned prospective marriage visa. Which one is it - is your marriage valid or not? You are contradicting yourself. One minute the case officer has no issues with it the next minute they have suggested a PMV....


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## JandE (Jul 17, 2015)

If you are not legally married then you can.

There is question on your marriage above. Is it really legal in Australia. You say that your agent said it was. How reliable is he?


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

JandE said:


> If you are not legally married then you can.
> 
> There is question on your marriage above. Is it really legal in Australia. You say that your agent said it was. How reliable is he?


I am soooooo confused.......


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## ampk (Sep 21, 2013)

Mish, that posted this is not a fool (Are you legally married? You mention Nikkah, Nikkah is not valid in Australia. It needs to be a legal marriage certificate.)


Mish said Nikkah is not valid. 

I would be looking at this VERY closely as it may just solve all your problems.

P.S. stop being stubborn all these people are trying to help you and give you ideas and options.


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

ampk said:


> Mish, that posted this is not a fool (Are you legally married? You mention Nikkah, Nikkah is not valid in Australia. It needs to be a legal marriage certificate.)
> 
> Mish said Nikkah is not valid.


Correct! They can take the Nikkah and get it registered as a legal marriage in some countries but a Nikkah on its own is not legal.


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## Maggie-May24 (Jul 24, 2011)

I was going to say the same as Mish.... Nikkah alone is not recognised as a legal marriage in Australia. If applicants then register the marriage with the country government (I'm not sure what's involved in this), I believe you are issued a marriage certificate which is recognised by Australia as a legal marriage.

OP - as I said before, I'd suggest you arrange a consultation with a different migration agent (and make sure they are MARA-registered) to go through the refusal, your situation, etc and decide from there if an appeal is worth filing or whether you should start over with a new application.


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## ahamidkhan2003 (Jan 20, 2016)

Mish said:


> Is your marriage valid or not? You said before the case officer had no issues with your marriage and now you are saying they said they mentioned prospective marriage visa. Which one is it - is your marriage valid or not? You are contradicting yourself. One minute the case officer has no issues with it the next minute they have suggested a PMV....


Sorry i confused every body here now, Every thing has been excepted. Except we did not stay longer. Is it clear??? Ok now case officer used future perfect tense (If I would have applied PMV and did all retuals here in Australia, it would be far easier because then we would not have to show this much documents. but as I told we have done everything, so thats reason i asked If it is still valid that we apply for PMV and remarriage according to Australian culture (I have no idea, because what we have done is according to that country)


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

ahamidkhan2003 said:


> Sorry i confused every body here now, Every thing has been excepted. Except we did not stay longer. Is it clear??? Ok now case officer used future perfect tense (If I would have applied PMV and did all retuals here in Australia, it would be far easier because then we would not have to show this much documents. but as I told we have done everything, so thats reason i asked If it is still valid that we apply for PMV and remarriage according to Australian culture (I have no idea, because what we have done is according to that country)


Nope you are married so you can't apply for a PMV.


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## ahamidkhan2003 (Jan 20, 2016)

Mish said:


> Correct! They can take the Nikkah and get it registered as a legal marriage in some countries but a Nikkah on its own is not legal.


Yes u r right, even in my mother country it Nikah itself is not acceptable but we need to register.


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## ahamidkhan2003 (Jan 20, 2016)

Mish said:


> Nope you are married so you can't apply for a PMV.


Ok , thanks. So that is out of question.


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## ahamidkhan2003 (Jan 20, 2016)

Maggie-May24 said:


> I was going to say the same as Mish.... Nikkah alone is not recognised as a legal marriage in Australia. If applicants then register the marriage with the country government (I'm not sure what's involved in this), I believe you are issued a marriage certificate which is recognised by Australia as a legal marriage.
> 
> OP - as I said before, I'd suggest you arrange a consultation with a different migration agent (and make sure they are MARA-registered) to go through the refusal, your situation, etc and decide from there if an appeal is worth filing or whether you should start over with a new application.


I did send a message for consultation to a agent from this forum and he told me he will talk to me on Monday. Lets see how it goes. I will let every body know.


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## ampk (Sep 21, 2013)

Great I will love to know if your new agent recommends cost recovery from your last agent.


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## tp9 (Jun 5, 2016)

ahamidkhan2003 said:


> Hello Dear
> I need an expert advice, if some one can give me please. My partner visa 309 has been refused because of Rukhsati, that she did not spend enough time with me. We both are in stress, and do not know what to do next. We are planing to apply visitor visa, and we have two choices left either contact to Terbunal AAP or apply again . which is the best option. That she can come here as quick as possible. please guide us.


Hello Hamid,
I am in a very similar situation to you. Can I contact you for advice?


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