# Illegal immigrants



## Turtlecouple

I have heard that all the illegal immigrants being held in Australia are getting their applications processed and some of their places are being given by the paying visa applicants. Has anyone heard anything like this? It makes me so angry we are paying and get pushed to the back. As an Australian tax payer, this makes me furious that I get slugged twice!


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## aussiegirl

Hi,

I too am concerned about the amount of time and energy the asylum seekers are taking up, but that's not to say they shouldn't be considered and given help if they are proven to be genuine refugees.

I think they are getting priority in processing in order to get them through and out of the system so that other visa classes can be assessed. I don't think places are being lost to them, though. ASIO is experiencing huge strain in checking their criminal backgrounds and such, which has affected all other visas that require the same checks in order to be granted a visa.

I hope the recent refusal to accept asylum applications from certain countries eases the strain, but only time can tell. It's a political hot potato, and it's generating a resentment and hatred among Australians that is only going to worsen if the government can't manage the problem.


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## Wanderer

Turtlecouple said:


> I have heard that all the illegal immigrants being held in Australia are getting their applications processed and some of their places are being given by the paying visa applicants. Has anyone heard anything like this? It makes me so angry we are paying and get pushed to the back. As an Australian tax payer, this makes me furious that I get slugged twice!


Your post does raise a few points, ie.
*1.*


> It makes me so angry we are paying and get pushed to the back. As an Australian tax payer, this makes me furious


*As an Australian taxpayer!* where are you pushed back to?

*2.* Australia has had a refugee program within immigration for many years and you could even say that assisted migrant passages that abounded in the decades after WW2 were something akin to refugee packages.
Currently, there is a budget for refugees of about 13,750 annually and given that the UN reports something like 25- 40 million about the planet in refugee situations, Australia's contribution is relatively small but I suppose every little bit helps people often in dire need of help, far more likely so than those looking at other forms of immigration.

The planet would be a far nicer place if situations did not develop that caused there to be refugees in the first place but then that has rarely been so.
There are theories and rumours that get about on how there is a mass movement of people about our planet just seeking a better way of life in respect to economy, work opportunity etc. and that may be true in some cases and the UNHCR and country governments have to try and identify if that kind of movement is occurring too, no doubt not the easiest of tasks.

*3.* Now as to illegal immigrants, we do have people who arrive on various visas and overstay or even work illegally.
They are not fitted with microchips on arrival so the V mother ship can keep track of them and it is an intensive manpower exercise to attempt rectifying that situation.

*4.* Meanwhile, people paying visa application fees are part of skilled or family visa streams and fees are calculated by the immigration department will closely reflect the department operating costs for processing those visas.

*5.* Refugees are not going to have the money to pay and there being no mention of fees on Refugee & Humanitarian - Visas & Immigration *[ a good read btw ]* I'd would expect costs of visa processing and resettlement provision is met by the australian taxpayers as a whole and any other revenue that the government is able to extract from international companies and visitors, ie. government general revenue.

You may not like that either but then that's what happens in those countries that do have refugee programs.

I'll move this thread to the Current Events section for it's not really a visa question as such.


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## Turtlecouple

Thanks guys...nice to get some 'Outside' the square feedback. I guess we are just annoyed that our visa application had just been extended another month, then I had my wife show me an article from China with Evans saying there will now be less family visas and more help for the Christmas Island people. I think it helps just having a sook about it. ;-) oh...by "pushed back", I meant our application. Cheers.


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## Wanderer

Turtlecouple said:


> Thanks guys...nice to get some 'Outside' the square feedback. I guess we are just annoyed that our visa application had just been extended another month, then I had my wife show me an article from China with Evans saying there will now be less family visas and more help for the Christmas Island people. I think it helps just having a sook about it. ;-) oh...by "pushed back", I meant our application. Cheers.


The media is not unknown for distorting information or producing it in a way that is more saleable, sensationalist if you like.

Aussiegirl with


> I think they are getting priority in processing in order to get them through and out of the system so that other visa classes can be assessed. I don't think places are being lost to them, though. ASIO is experiencing huge strain in checking their criminal backgrounds and such, which has affected all other visas that require the same checks in order to be granted a visa.


indicates a couple of things that have happened and that's
1. There was a boat from somewhere or other with SriLankans if I recall that sent out an SOS in Indonesian waters and an Aussie boat that is more usually used in southern waters was requested by Indonesians to give assistance which it did.
What ensued then for about a month was the Aussie boat then being moored in Indonesian waters and the Sri Lankans refusing to leave and they negotiated to get a special deal re their refugee applications being considered.

Not all applications get automatically approved btw but as Aussiegirl indicates, the increased flow of refugees does strain ASIO resources and that had been reported in the media here and so it is quite likely that all sorts of stories could develop from that.

It may be the way of some countries _[ and in deed there would be some Australians who may well think the same way ]_ that you just send in sufficient police/military or whomever and bodily drag people off a boat in that situation with them kicking and screaming etc., something the media would play up into an even bigger story.
We have already had a number of occurrences where people in detention and even on boats apprehended have done themselves significant self harm/mutilation and even with deaths occurring.

It is difficult if you're not in a situation of dire and even life threatening circumstances to appreciate just what level of desperation some people may go to and I suppose that Australia being considered to be a land of generally reasonably generous and receptive peoples, that message probably gets back to lands where people are suffering and the numbers of boats arriving in our northern waters is stretching not just ASIO resources.

As Aussiegirl also refers to, there has been a suspension of sorts placed on processing refugee applications of people from Sri Lanka and Afghanistan, both countries likely having great hardships and life threatening circumstances for some people there.

The whole situation is of concern one way or another to many Australians and in deed there will be some who have a level of hatred.
I just today read an online report re the existence iof the Klu Lux Klan in Australia - KKK teacher helped student dump body and indeed Australia like most if not all countries will not be without its racists and those opposing things of other cultures.

Europe for instance at the moment with some countries outlawing women of Islamic religion from wearing various head apparel and the extent of feelings on " illegal migrants " or refugees has seen some being run out of regions, those same regions possibly having some working as cheap labour.

There has also been some dissatisfaction expressed in some Australian communities where some settling in has been initiated, acceptance of people from different backgrounds and a high level of assimilation always likely to take considerable time, that being the experience of immigration over many decades.

This is not the first time that Australia has had refugees coming in larger numbers either and substantial numbers came from Vietnam in the late 70s and we have also not turned away Chinese either for no doubt you know of Tiananmen Square and at the time I think it was of the order of 15,000 Chinese students in Australia were offered the option of permanent residency.

There are likely some many very cruel things occurring everyday all over the planet, thousands dying of malnutrition in Africa for instance, not to mention those who have suffered great natural disasters in many countries, so whilst attempting to give refugees a better life can have its own issues, lets not begrudge a little generosity in helping those relative few who are attempting to help themselves and their families and many dying in the attempt.


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## Rehan

I was wondering if someone could answer one of my question which is, I lived in australia for 9 years as a student. I held a student visa for about 8 and a half years but for the last 3-4 months, I stayed in australia ilgally. Before I left australia, I went to the immigration to make department arrangments. Guy at the immi informed me that due to my over stay in australia, I cannot apply for any temporary visas (study,work,tourism etc.etc.) for australia for next 3 years. I asked him, if this rule applies to only temporary visas or it applies to temporary as well as permanent visas. I asked him this question specifically because I am eligible to apply for permanant residency visa for australia (offshore) because I have completed my bacholar's degree programme from an australian university.The guy at the immi counter told me that 'exculsion period rule' only applies to temporary visas and doesnt apply to permanent visas and I can still apply for my permanent residency visa for australia anytime i want. 
When I reached at airport, immigration guy at the airport confirmed with me about the '3 years exclusion period'. One thing that worried me was that the guy at the immi counter at airport said that the '3 years exclusion period rule' applies to all kinds of visa application, including temporary as well as permanent visas. This is my query here today if anyone knows the real answer. My question is that due to my over-stay in australia, since 3-years exclusion period rule applies; does it apply to only temporary visa applications or it applies to all sorts of visas application. Please help me out if possible. Kind regards.
Rehan


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## Wanderer

Rehan said:


> I was wondering if someone could answer one of my question which is, I lived in australia for 9 years as a student. I held a student visa for about 8 and a half years but for the last 3-4 months, I stayed in australia ilgally. Before I left australia, I went to the immigration to make department arrangments. Guy at the immi informed me that due to my over stay in australia, I cannot apply for any temporary visas (study,work,tourism etc.etc.) for australia for next 3 years. I asked him, if this rule applies to only temporary visas or it applies to temporary as well as permanent visas. I asked him this question specifically because I am eligible to apply for permanant residency visa for australia (offshore) because I have completed my bacholar's degree programme from an australian university.The guy at the immi counter told me that 'exculsion period rule' only applies to temporary visas and doesnt apply to permanent visas and I can still apply for my permanent residency visa for australia anytime i want.
> When I reached at airport, immigration guy at the airport confirmed with me about the '3 years exclusion period'. One thing that worried me was that the guy at the immi counter at airport said that the '3 years exclusion period rule' applies to all kinds of visa application, including temporary as well as permanent visas. This is my query here today if anyone knows the real answer. My question is that due to my over-stay in australia, since 3-years exclusion period rule applies; does it apply to only temporary visa applications or it applies to all sorts of visas application. Please help me out if possible. Kind regards.
> Rehan


I've seen comment previously that is more in line with what you were told at the office than by the airport guy and I'd expect airport guys to perhaps not be as familiar with regulations.
Try a pre lodgement enquiry - Contact Us - Department of Immigration and Citizenship and you should be able to get something in writing.
It may however be not too prescriptive as Immi never are.
Be good to hear what they have to say.


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## Rehan

Thanks alot. Your help is much appriciated.


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## Shanah

i have never heard anything like this


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## Barbaragabogrecan

Illegal immigration is the movement of people across national borders in a way that violates the immigration laws of the destination country. Illegal immigrants are also known as illegal aliens to differentiate them from legal aliens. Conversely, illegal emigration refers to unlawfully leaving a country.


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## river

I've heard that some Chinese guys whose visa had expired are now staying in the country and working illegally, but you have to admit they are workforce as well. You go to a Chinese shop on sunday, enjoy your shopping ,and they serve you, should they be granted a visa?...in order to serve you legally?


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## Wanderer

river said:


> I've heard that some Chinese guys whose visa had expired are now staying in the country and working illegally, but you have to admit they are workforce as well. You go to a Chinese shop on sunday, enjoy your shopping ,and they serve you, should they be granted a visa?...in order to serve you legally?


Simple answer is there's a process for all visa applications and you can work it out from there re encouraging an illegal workforce.


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## gunman

Rehan said:


> I was wondering if someone could answer one of my question which is, I lived in australia for 9 years as a student. I held a student visa for about 8 and a half years but for the last 3-4 months, I stayed in australia ilgally. Before I left australia, I went to the immigration to make department arrangments. Guy at the immi informed me that due to my over stay in australia, I cannot apply for any temporary visas (study,work,tourism etc.etc.) for australia for next 3 years. I asked him, if this rule applies to only temporary visas or it applies to temporary as well as permanent visas. I asked him this question specifically because I am eligible to apply for permanant residency visa for australia (offshore) because I have completed my bacholar's degree programme from an australian university.The guy at the immi counter told me that 'exculsion period rule' only applies to temporary visas and doesnt apply to permanent visas and I can still apply for my permanent residency visa for australia anytime i want.
> When I reached at airport, immigration guy at the airport confirmed with me about the '3 years exclusion period'. One thing that worried me was that the guy at the immi counter at airport said that the '3 years exclusion period rule' applies to all kinds of visa application, including temporary as well as permanent visas. This is my query here today if anyone knows the real answer. My question is that due to my over-stay in australia, since 3-years exclusion period rule applies; does it apply to only temporary visa applications or it applies to all sorts of visas application. Please help me out if possible. Kind regards.
> Rehan


I CAN'T IMAGINE there is some one who is in the same boat with me!!!
my case is exactly like yours, however i lodged my application via immigration agent in september 2008. but now i am really anxious about it. because i am really concerned if my overstay would affect the decision process for my permanent visa.
i lodged 176 nominated accountant. 
immi guy and the airport guy said that it won't affect my application but still they're not my CO. therefore atm i am really anxious.
my agent said it wouldn't affect my application, but until i got my visa i can barely contain my emotion at the moment

feel free to share info with me.


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## ShaneASCMigration

gunman said:


> I CAN'T IMAGINE there is some one who is in the same boat with me!!!
> my case is exactly like yours, however i lodged my application via immigration agent in september 2008. but now i am really anxious about it. because i am really concerned if my overstay would affect the decision process for my permanent visa.
> i lodged 176 nominated accountant.
> immi guy and the airport guy said that it won't affect my application but still they're not my CO. therefore atm i am really anxious.
> my agent said it wouldn't affect my application, but until i got my visa i can barely contain my emotion at the moment
> 
> feel free to share info with me.


What you both need remember is PR is not temporary. Therefore, the DIAC will assess you on PR based on whether you have the skills to work, can support yourself etc. If you apply for a temporary visa, of course they're going to reject you. And even after the exclusion period you will instantly be red flagged and your application would be met by a fierce case officer who will go through it in finite detail.

As long as you meet the criteria needed for a PR visa, you will not run into any problems.

Shane K
ASC Migration


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## ShaneASCMigration

aussiegirl said:


> Hi,
> 
> I too am concerned about the amount of time and energy the asylum seekers are taking up, but that's not to say they shouldn't be considered and given help if they are proven to be *genuine refugees*.


This I believe is the key issue, whether or not they are genuine refugees. I have had the pleasure of working with refugees who have come from terrible circumstances, and on the other side of the coin I am frequently called by people in places like Sri Lanka and Indonesia who do not have the skills to enter Australia legally and blatantly ask for advice how to get here without a visa.

Unfortunately the Labor government now is building holding facilities on the mainland, which will mean the majority of boat people will be approved as they're already here.

I for one do not support illegal immigrants. I do support refugees. Our current system does not allow to distinguish the two very well. Rather than spending millions on increase holding capacities for detention centres, there needs to be more money spent on processes to sort the refugees from the illegals.


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## gunman

ShaneASCMigration said:


> What you both need remember is PR is not temporary. Therefore, the DIAC will assess you on PR based on whether you have the skills to work, can support yourself etc. If you apply for a temporary visa, of course they're going to reject you. And even after the exclusion period you will instantly be red flagged and your application would be met by a fierce case officer who will go through it in finite detail.
> 
> As long as you meet the criteria needed for a PR visa, you will not run into any problems.
> 
> Shane K
> ASC Migration


thx,

i got my pr lastweek


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