# Visa Rejected - tourist visa 676!



## melandabdul (Sep 1, 2012)

Hi Everyone,
It is with great sadness that today I share with you our tourist visa 676 for my love was just rejected by the Australian Embassy in Athens.
We have been waiting for this answer for 3 weeks now and were so excited to hear back as we felt we had a good case and the response has blown us out of the water.

My mood has plummeted to the depths of depression as I read the reasons for rejection and see finally first hand how DIAC can make amazing leaps in their conclusions without supporting evidence and also write open non truths so I am understandably concerned about the integrity of our PMV process seeing how easily this is done.
I am still very shell shocked but wish to share our experience with you so that others may gain insight and learn.

Reasons for refusing the visa -

1> "I have determined that based on applicant’s personal circumstances I am not satisfied that applicant would depart Australia within the period of authorised stay as a visitor if a visa were granted.

I have determined that applicant would not be in a position to contemplate long-haul tourism to Australia for genuine tourism reasons. The applicant is not employed and I find that the cost and duration of the applicant’s stay in Australia is not consistent with his personal circumstances and therefore I am also of the view that the applicant may have a significant incentive to work in Australia in breach of his visa conditions. I have taken into consideration the assertions, assurances and declarations by the applicant’s fiancé however these assurances alone are not sufficient for the applicant to meet criteria as a genuine visitor."

I had to provide financial statements and a stat dec stating that I would support him while here and showing how much money I earn. All of this information was adequate for him to come and live here with me at my expense and in my home so this statement seems to have ignored everything I have provided as requested by the 676 process.

I also spelt out in details what he was coming for - to help plan the wedding, hold an engagement party, support my nephew in training for basketball competitions, support me emotionally/mentally, do jobs around my house that I can't afford to pay to have done, meet all of my family and friends, attend pre marriage counselling etc.

"Furthermore, I note that applicant has applied for political asylum in Greece and was the holder of a Greek resident permit which expired on 12 February 2013. Applicant has not provided evidence of a further extension or a new Greek resident permit and therefore I cannot determine that applicant would have a right to re-enter Greece which is his usual country of residence and find it implausible that applicant would be able to return to his country of birth given that he has sought political asylum in Greece."

We sent an updated scanned copy of the new Greece resident permit on Feb 13 to the CO's email which she didn't reply to. This rejection letter was sent to us today Feb 26. We also provided detailed information in our submission about how it is now safe for my love to return to his home country as the situation surrounding the political violence he experienced which resulted in him having to leave his country is no longer present as a new government is in power since the new election in Dec and as such he is now able to and ready to go home. Again the CO seems to have ignored/not read what was sent.

I even went so far as to offer to pay a surety bond to guarantee that my love would leave the country at the end of his visa.

This whole thing makes we very nervous now for our future visa. I consulted Mark Northam on our application before we sent it in and he was very supportive of the information we submitted for this visa and felt we had a good chance but the CO seems not to have even taken it into account at all.

I am trying so hard to settle myself and see that maybe there is a bigger picture goal here but right now I just feel deflated.


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## Adventuress (Jan 8, 2012)

Mel,

I am so sorry to hear of your disappointment. I am also terribly disappointed for you, and further disappointed to hear my fears about the system confirmed.

Do you have rights for appeal or review? At the least I think you should make a complaint using DIAC form, saying that the evidence you provided was ignored outright, and also expressing your concerns for your fiance visa. As far as I understand, a complaint made using the form will go to broader levels and your concerns may acually be heard by someone different who may be in a position to do something.

Although it may not be a great consolation, remember also that it is possible to submit a new tourist visa application when circumstances have changed (seeing what the follow-up is from your complaint, you may be considered to have changed circumstances without your circumstances actually changing). And since tourist visas have such a short processing time as compared to partner visas, it may be easier emotionally to submit and wait again.

I am always here for you on the forum or by PM if you need to talk to someone xx


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## Ausstart National (Aug 22, 2012)

I am sorry to hear about your situation, however, the decision maker might have been justified in making the decision they did. The residence permit is only one part of this puzzle. Other, very strong genuine visit criteria include their own personal circumstances, which in this case, his were not very good.

Having access to the funds, is not the only factor also. Failure to have the money to support yourself comes under the genuine visitor requirement, and not so much having the access to the money to support yourself. 

You application was worth a try though. I think it was just unlucky. Because you are not married, and might not satisfy the de-facto requirements, It won't be reviewable. If you're in NSW, you could try and register the relationship,. and then you would be able to sponsor him as part of the 679 family sponsored visa. Then, you would be able to provide a security deposit for his stay.

Best wait until the 300PMV goes through.


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## melandabdul (Sep 1, 2012)

Ausstart National said:


> I am sorry to hear about your situation, however, the decision maker might have been justified in making the decision they did. The residence permit is only one part of this puzzle. Other, very strong genuine visit criteria include their own personal circumstances, which in this case, his were not very good.
> 
> Having access to the funds, is not the only factor also. Failure to have the money to support yourself comes under the genuine visitor requirement, and not so much having the access to the money to support yourself.
> 
> ...


Thanks Chris. I have seen others without access to their own funds be granted 676 visa's. We put together a great application and proactively addressed any concerns they would have and I was prepared to put considerable money down as surety to abate any fears of him not leaving at the end.

Anyway we have no review or rebuttal rights for a 676 so it is a matter of sucking it up unless we want to try again...right now all I want to do is curl up in a ball and sleep.

Chris - do you think this will affect the PMV visa? Are PMV's also judged so subjectively?


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## melandabdul (Sep 1, 2012)

Adventuress said:


> Mel,
> 
> I am so sorry to hear of your disappointment. I am also terribly disappointed for you, and further disappointed to hear my fears about the system confirmed.
> 
> ...


Oh honey...thanks for reaching out. I am a mess and not sure what to do right now. He is so worried about me but I just need to do what I need to do to get through this. He says when I cry it feels like someoene is pouring boiling water on his heart....my poor love....but I can't help but cry.

There is no right to review and I am not sure that complaining will make any difference but i will seek some independent advice and see how we go.

I have to say that waiting on the tourist visa was hard work. Even thought it was a short wait, I knew it would be a short wait and so I felt like each day was a year!!!!

Now all of my hopes and fears are fare and square on the PMV....boy I hope we get good news this month.

Thanks for the support....really need it and appreciate it xxx


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## Ausstart National (Aug 22, 2012)

melandabdul said:


> Thanks Chris. I have seen others without access to their own funds be granted 676 visa's. We put together a great application and proactively addressed any concerns they would have and I was prepared to put considerable money down as surety to abate any fears of him not leaving at the end.
> 
> Anyway we have no review or rebuttal rights for a 676 so it is a matter of sucking it up unless we want to try again...right now all I want to do is curl up in a ball and sleep.
> 
> Chris - do you think this will affect the PMV visa? Are PMV's also judged so subjectively?


The PMV and the 676 are very different applications, and are assessed on entirely different requirements. There is no 'Genuine Visitor' requirment for the PMV 300, and the applicant does not have to provide evidence they will return to their previous country of residence. The main criteria are that the applicant genuinely intends to marry their Australian partner.
Make sure you have the strongest application possible for the PMV 300, and everything should be ok.

The benefit is that if anything happens, you can review a decision on the PMV 300. But, getting the PMV 100% bullet proof is the best way to avoid any problems with the application.

Regards,

Chris


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## melandabdul (Sep 1, 2012)

Ausstart National said:


> The PMV and the 676 are very different applications, and are assessed on entirely different requirements. There is no 'Genuine Visitor' requirment for the PMV 300, and the applicant does not have to provide evidence they will return to their previous country of residence. The main criteria are that the applicant genuinely intends to marry their Australian partner.
> Make sure you have the strongest application possible for the PMV 300, and everything should be ok.
> 
> The benefit is that if anything happens, you can review a decision on the PMV 300. But, getting the PMV 100% bullet proof is the best way to avoid any problems with the application.
> ...


Thanks Chris. I am not sure with these people that there is 100% bullet proof unless you have lived a boring, hermit life and there is nothing to tell about and therefore everything is clean and crisp.

Our application for the PMV has been in since 2 Oct 2012 and we felt we put in a good case....but there is always difference of opinions and we have not lived hermit lives so there is always a chance that it will go a rye I guess.

I did see a rejection for a PMV that stated one of the reasons for rejection being that the couple were also refused a tourist visa!!!! It is a crazy system we are working in where they are god (little g) and we can be smitten at any moment.


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## Ausstart National (Aug 22, 2012)

HI ,

Thats right. There is never any guarantee. In deciding the PMV300, they will consider all parts of the case, but the requirements will be based on the relationship, and intent on marrying, and living together in the future as man and wife. Compared to a tourist visa. the requirements are very different. In the cases that are refused, they might have been cases where the applicants were trying to bypass the genuine tourist requirements, and come in based on an intending marriage.

I had heard last year there was a major scam busted, involving scam and fake mariages. 

However, the decision will be made on your case alone, and your evidence. If you both have a genuine relationship that is well evidenced, then you should be ok.

Regards,

Chris


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## CollegeGirl (Nov 10, 2012)

Oh (((((((((((((((mel)))))))))))))), I am so sorry! I wish I could reach through this screen and hug you. I thought if anyone would get a 676 approved, it would be you guys. I can't imagine how frustrating it is to know you put together such an airtight case, and to have the information you provided completely ignored.  I'm so sorry, honey. If you need a shoulder, just holler. I'm a good listener. *big, big hugs*


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## melandabdul (Sep 1, 2012)

CollegeGirl said:


> Oh (((((((((((((((mel)))))))))))))), I am so sorry! I wish I could reach through this screen and hug you. I thought if anyone would get a 676 approved, it would be you guys. I can't imagine how frustrating it is to know you put together such an airtight case, and to have the information you provided completely ignored.  I'm so sorry, honey. If you need a shoulder, just holler. I'm a good listener. *big, big hugs*


Thank you honey. Yes it did feel like a pretty damn airtight case...but we have both lived lives and while there are ways to twist it and regulations that allow for subjective decisions to be made then I guess it will never be 100% air tight.

A big black cloud has come down and fixed itself around my eyes/head so I am not thinking or seeing clearly but I hope this is a passing thing. I have put my hope and my heart into this visa being approved. I let myself believe that it would come through for us...was I wrong to hope for a future and a brighter day where I would be able to touch and kiss my beloved? Well for now it seems so.

I really hope that this is a bad day I can look back on and sigh while holding my loves hand tight as we watch our children play happily in our big vast country I call home.


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## CollegeGirl (Nov 10, 2012)

melandabdul said:


> Thank you honey. Yes it did feel like a pretty damn airtight case...but we have both lived lives and while there are ways to twist it and regulations that allow for subjective decisions to be made then I guess it will never be 100% air tight.
> 
> A big black cloud has come down and fixed itself around my eyes/head so I am not thinking or seeing clearly but I hope this is a passing thing. I have put my hope and my heart into this visa being approved. I let myself believe that it would come through for us...was I wrong to hope for a future and a brighter day where I would be able to touch and kiss my beloved? Well for now it seems so.
> 
> I really hope that this is a bad day I can look back on and sigh while holding my loves hand tight as we watch our children play happily in our big vast country I call home.


No, you weren't wrong, honey. It WILL happen... it just might take a little longer than you anticipated. So much support coming your way... I wish I could do something.


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## melandabdul (Sep 1, 2012)

CollegeGirl said:


> No, you weren't wrong, honey. It WILL happen... it just might take a little longer than you anticipated. So much support coming your way... I wish I could do something.


You ARE doing something...caring and showing your concern. Thanks so much xxx


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## Nelly87 (Jul 3, 2011)

melandabdul said:


> Thanks Chris. I am not sure with these people that there is 100% bullet proof unless you have lived a boring, hermit life and there is nothing to tell about and therefore everything is clean and crisp.


Hah! That's not good enough either, trust me. My partner and I are homebodies who love most of all to sit on the couch and play games together. Sure it makes us squeaky clean but it also means we have hardly any proof of days out together, no proof if joint hobbies even though gaming is a big part of our time together.

We live a fairly boring, hermit life (not entirely hermit but my partner is fairly reclusive) and what it results in is lack of evidence and few mutual friends outside my friends.


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## melandabdul (Sep 1, 2012)

Nelly87 said:


> Hah! That's not good enough either, trust me. My partner and I are homebodies who love most of all to sit on the couch and play games together. Sure it makes us squeaky clean but it also means we have hardly any proof of days out together, no proof if joint hobbies even though gaming is a big part of our time together.
> 
> We live a fairly boring, hermit life (not entirely hermit but my partner is fairly reclusive) and what it results in is lack of evidence and few mutual friends outside my friends.


Oh honey I meant no disrespect...what I mean is if you lived a life where there was nothing to speak of and nothing to investigate. I certainly don't think your life is boring....but yet I see the issues with your homebody lifestyle also.

This process is designed to look for all the ways in which we "might" be shown up. It is a process of "show us you are worthy" as opposed to "you are deserving until proven otherwise"....no wonder it robs so many of us of our joy, hope and peace.


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## Nelly87 (Jul 3, 2011)

melandabdul said:


> Oh honey I meant no disrespect...what I mean is if you lived a life where there was nothing to speak of and nothing to investigate. I certainly don't think your life is boring....but yet I see the issues with your homebody lifestyle also.
> 
> This process is designed to look for all the ways in which we "might" be shown up. It is a process of "show us you are worthy" as opposed to "you are deserving until proven otherwise"....no wonder it robs so many of us of our joy, hope and peace.


Oh I know that *hug* I wasn't offended! Just trying to say we can't win! We're too quiet or too loud, there is never a real right middle way with Immigration it seems.

And I'm really sorry to hear about what happened but I have a feeling you two can change your odds... you're well informed and smart, there has to be a way somewhere!

I doubt this could influence your partner application - it says nothing about how real your relationship is, all it probably says is people from certain countries maybe overstay more (or not! I don't know!) and though high/low risk can influence processing time, it can't hack down a good/strong case.

What is next for you?


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## kangaro (Jul 17, 2012)

Hi Mel 

I'm really sorry to hear about it, don't worry it might u'r PMV is going to grant soon, u trying this way it doesn't work but God will help u and open his way unexpectedly just trust him, Love always win! I pray for u and get strength, take-care,


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## melandabdul (Sep 1, 2012)

Nelly87 said:


> Oh I know that *hug* I wasn't offended! Just trying to say we can't win! We're too quiet or too loud, there is never a real right middle way with Immigration it seems.
> 
> And I'm really sorry to hear about what happened but I have a feeling you two can change your odds... you're well informed and smart, there has to be a way somewhere!
> 
> ...


Thanks for your kind words Nelly! What next...well i am addressing the incorrect information which was one of the reasons they rejected us. I spoke to the CO and she was very nice but this doesn't mean anything in the end so we will see if this changes anything.


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## melandabdul (Sep 1, 2012)

kangaro said:


> Hi Mel
> 
> I'm really sorry to hear about it, don't worry it might u'r PMV is going to grant soon, u trying this way it doesn't work but God will help u and open his way unexpectedly just trust him, Love always win! I pray for u and get strength, take-care,


Thank you Kangaro...I really appreciate you kind words of support. I really hope that March is the month for our PMV but I am still shaken from this result so we will see. Bless you and thank you for your prayers xxx


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## Laegil (Sep 17, 2012)

Oh I am so sorry to hear this and it makes me really angry, too. It sounds like you had all the reasons in the world to get this Visa granted. Maybe you were just the quote-rejection. 
My thoughts are with you. I know how it feels to fall into this big black hole and it is entirely justified in your situation, just try not to get too comfortable there! 
Just think about how you can laugh at DIAC once the PMV is granted because YOU are gonna be the happiest person in the world and they still have a shitty-as office job that obviously makes them so bitter that they try and make other people's lives miserable as well. HA!


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## Zamaussie (Jan 16, 2012)

Sorry Mel about that sad news.
But you still have a chance since your PMV is still being processed. I don't think the outcome of the TV will very much affect the PMV. I wouldn't bother to send any complaints about the outcome of your TV at this point.
For the PMV its certain that all of us who apply intend to stay longer till we are permanent as opposed to the TV,so thats why your PMV wont be affected by these results.
If you can recall our PMV took 11months to come out,but was worth waiting for, though we had to change our wedding dates 2 times...  I f the documents you put in for your pmv are strong enough then no need to stress . Its not the DIAC's intentions to separate partners. You will be fine !!! All the Best


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## dunan (Oct 5, 2012)

Hi Mel...dont worry too much, my friend got 3 denials for TV but got approved for fiance visa.....so save your money n look at the bright side..heh heh...


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## melandabdul (Sep 1, 2012)

dunan said:


> Hi Mel...dont worry too much, my friend got 3 denials for TV but got approved for fiance visa.....so save your money n look at the bright side..heh heh...


Oh that's the news I needed to hear. Thanks. By the way, did they ever get a TV approved or were they all denied?


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## melandabdul (Sep 1, 2012)

Laegil said:


> Oh I am so sorry to hear this and it makes me really angry, too. It sounds like you had all the reasons in the world to get this Visa granted. Maybe you were just the quote-rejection.
> My thoughts are with you. I know how it feels to fall into this big black hole and it is entirely justified in your situation, just try not to get too comfortable there!
> Just think about how you can laugh at DIAC once the PMV is granted because YOU are gonna be the happiest person in the world and they still have a shitty-as office job that obviously makes them so bitter that they try and make other people's lives miserable as well. HA!


Oh thanks so much for your support. Today is a better day though they did review the visa in light of the information they missed and still found it lacking so no new outcome but at least they did the right thing and checked it over again.

Now our focus is fast and secure on the PMV and we just hope it isn't a long wait as I really need him here for emotional/mental support.


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## melandabdul (Sep 1, 2012)

Zamaussie said:


> Sorry Mel about that sad news.
> But you still have a chance since your PMV is still being processed. I don't think the outcome of the TV will very much affect the PMV. I wouldn't bother to send any complaints about the outcome of your TV at this point.
> For the PMV its certain that all of us who apply intend to stay longer till we are permanent as opposed to the TV,so thats why your PMV wont be affected by these results.
> If you can recall our PMV took 11months to come out,but was worth waiting for, though we had to change our wedding dates 2 times...  I f the documents you put in for your pmv are strong enough then no need to stress . Its not the DIAC's intentions to separate partners. You will be fine !!! All the Best


You are so right Zamaussie. We will see a brighter day in time. Just not sure when that will be. I don't plan to complain as what happened is the way the system works. And there is no review for TV but PMV is another story.

I really hope it doesn't take us 11 months but if it does then so be it.


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## Mogliettina (Nov 22, 2012)

I am so sorry to hear this bad news and especially because it happened to you, Melandabdul. You and Abdul (I guessed it right?) do not deserve this and I am sure you will get the PMV approved soon.

My thoughts are with you. Hang in there! xx


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## dunan (Oct 5, 2012)

No never got a TV approved because she could not prove beyond any doubt that she would return as her financial status was not enough, even though her bf was willing to put up the bond etc.....so it happens quite often...


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## melandabdul (Sep 1, 2012)

Mogliettina said:


> I am so sorry to hear this bad news and especially because it happened to you, Melandabdul. You and Abdul (I guessed it right?) do not deserve this and I am sure you will get the PMV approved soon.
> 
> My thoughts are with you. Hang in there! xx


Thank you so much for your support. You know it is hard for anyone in our situation but I guess I let myself believe that we had a chance...and a good one. I am suffering here without him and this was our solution so that we could be together while we waited for the PMV to be decided.

It will all happen in time and I know that we are not the first and will not be the last to go through this pain of waiting and being apart but it does hurt so very much at times xxx


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## melandabdul (Sep 1, 2012)

dunan said:


> No never got a TV approved because she could not prove beyond any doubt that she would return as her financial status was not enough, even though her bf was willing to put up the bond etc.....so it happens quite often...


Oh well then there is a lot that we have in common. I guess I am going to save my money as you said and wait for the PMV. If it takes too much longer I think we might need to look at other options though as I am not sure I can be apart for him for another 5 months or whatever it will take for this visa.

Our life is not our own as we wait and I think this is the hardest thing of all....the uncertainty.


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## melandabdul (Sep 1, 2012)

Had a very interesting conversation with my GP today in relation to our rejected TV. He is also African and said that he and his wife often have people come out to Australia to visit and it is VERY common for them to have their visa's rejected for all kinds of silly reasons and it seems that there is an aversion for some races at immigration presently.

Many of the people that he has come visit are African but living in the UK where he and his wife were before coming over and they are often not working for he does the paperwork to say he will provide all of the finances for them like I did with my love.

He informed me that often the visa will be rejected as they say the applicant does not have enough money to make the trip. What he has done is simply pick up the phone and contact the CO and let them know that he submitted all of the information to say that he would be supporting them and they say "Oh sorry our error" and they have granted the visa!!!!

Can it be that simple!?!?!?!?

Anyway I thought that I wold share his experience.


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## daybyday1 (Nov 25, 2012)

Hi all !! 

we are applying for the 676 TV. So my question is how much money does the applicant need to have in the bank to support himself for 6 months? i cant seem to find the requirements anywhere.

dont want to apply if he doesnt have enough money just to get rejected. and sponsoring isnt an option for us so he needs money in his account. 

any advice would be greatly appreciated 
thanks


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## melandabdul (Sep 1, 2012)

daybyday1 said:


> Hi all !!
> 
> we are applying for the 676 TV. So my question is how much money does the applicant need to have in the bank to support himself for 6 months? i cant seem to find the requirements anywhere.
> 
> ...


Pretty sure when I rang DIAC they quoted me $1000/month per person but it would be worth a call or email to them to check.


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## kmarees1986 (Apr 23, 2012)

melandabdul said:


> Pretty sure when I rang DIAC they quoted me $1000/month per person but it would be worth a call or email to them to check.


Hello! I just called Australia House in London and spoke to one of the immigration advisors who said that there is no set benchmark and all circumstances is taken into consideration.

My husband and I are very lucky to have financiall support from my family and free accomodation so this may fare well for us - however if you don't have free accomodation its best to do some research and see how much accomodation costs in the area you are going to stay, add $20 a day for food maybe and a bit extra for miscellaneous costs that way you have covered the lot.


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## salt and pepper (Mar 28, 2013)

melandabdul said:


> Hi Everyone,
> It is with great sadness that today I share with you our tourist visa 676 for my love was just rejected by the Australian Embassy in Athens.
> We have been waiting for this answer for 3 weeks now and were so excited to hear back as we felt we had a good case and the response has blown us out of the water.
> 
> ...


Hi, sorry for has happened. I will suggest you look for migrant agent and let him have a second look. I am a Ghanaian and if your guy is seeking political assylum in Greece its sound a little strange to me. the last election held was violent free so why is he seeking political assylum somewhere? besides there is no NEW government in Ghana now. the party that won the elections has been in power for the past 4 years already and they were re-elected. so i really don't understand this issue of political assylum. May he was in Lybia and went to Greece to seek political assylum. please just find out from him and lets see what he has to say about this. may be the case officer checked out and realised something was wrong. but all the same look for a migrant agent. sorry again


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## kmarees1986 (Apr 23, 2012)

Hi Mel, just wondered if you were successful in getting your husband to Oz. I am about to apply for the Subclass 600 on behalf of my husand as his sponsor to see if we can get him here for the birth of our baby in July.


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## melandabdul (Sep 1, 2012)

kmarees1986 said:


> Hi Mel, just wondered if you were successful in getting your husband to Oz. I am about to apply for the Subclass 600 on behalf of my husand as his sponsor to see if we can get him here for the birth of our baby in July.


Hi kmarees,
Abdul was my fiance not my husband and no is the answer to your question as at this point I felt I could go no further. We parted ways as there was nothing else for us to do at other ends of the world if we could not be together. The options were to wait another 2 years for a tribunal hearing for a review or to go live in Ghana and marry over there then try for a spouse visa.
At that time I felt that for my health I could not do either of these options so sadly we said our goodbyes.
I hope that you are successful in your application.
Mel
xxx


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## shingle (Sep 30, 2012)

[Removed unkind response. - CG]


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## jmcd16 (Aug 5, 2012)

Offensive post has been removed. Thanks CG


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## CollegeGirl (Nov 10, 2012)

Shingle, that was beyond unkind. If you were active in this forum during Mel's wait for her visa and knew more about her background, you'd understand just how much in love she and Abdul were, and how difficult that decision was for them. 

The number one rule of this forum is that we "treat others here the way you wish to be treated, with respect, and without insult or personal attack." Your comment violates the spirit of the community. I'm editing your post. Please refrain from other such comments.


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## Valentine1981 (Sep 13, 2012)

jmcd16 said:


> I am pretty offended by your judgemental post


I completely agree with you! Unfortunately the reality of life is that love does not conquer all - the stress/financial aspect that I see people posting about daily on this forum is enough to put strain on any relationship. 
I know what I'm dealing with and I'm one of the lucky ones who is actually onshore with the one I love while we jump through DIAC's seemingly endless hoops to prove my relationship is genuine and that we have 'good enough evidence'. I cannot begin to imagine what it's like for some of the members of this forum who are continents away from the one's they love.

I think it's pretty low to make such a downright nasty post towards someone of whom you have no personal knowledge.


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