# PIC 4020 (misleading doc Please Help!



## qldguy (Sep 30, 2015)

*Pic 4020*

We just got a letter (after a 2 month wait) regarding application for Visitor Visa Subcl


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## wrussell (Dec 31, 2014)

If you have lodged a document that was false or misleading in a material particular, it will be assessed adversely, even if you did not know it was false or misleading.

I strongly advise that you consult a registered migration agent to prepare a submission about how the document came to be lodged and also prepare a submission about your compelling and compassionate circumstances.


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## Maggie-May24 (Jul 24, 2011)

As Westly has suggested, you should get the assistance of a migration agent. There are several who post regularly on this forum, including Westly, who are very experienced and knowledgeable. Whether you were involved in creating the false documents, the fact that you submitted it makes you responsible for it.


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## qldguy (Sep 30, 2015)

Update............


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## wrussell (Dec 31, 2014)

qldguy said:


> Update..
> 
> We appointed and agent, got to the bottom of the _bogus document_ and we have sued the person responsible for it.
> 
> ...


 The points you make are irrelevant to seeking a waiver.


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## qldguy (Sep 30, 2015)

wrussell said:


> The points you make are irrelevant to seeking a waiver.


 ..........................


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## wrussell (Dec 31, 2014)

> What types of things are relevant?


Search 4020 and waiver.


> The case officer himself said we also need to demonstrate intentions. Its all about risk and incentive to return.


True, but in the face of 4020 this is not useful advice.

Best of luck with whatever you decide to do.


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## Maggie-May24 (Jul 24, 2011)

From everything I've ever read regarding PIC 4020, you need to demonstrate compelling & compassionate reasons to waive it, not simply provide her incentives to leave at the end of a visitor visa. PIC 4020 is one of the more serious issues and difficult to overcome. If you want to try to overcome it, you should use a migration agent (there are several good ones on this forum, including WRussell above).

DIBP don't consider "missing my wife" or "my children miss their father" to be compelling/compassionate reasons, it would need to be things like critical, life-threatening illness. A lot of applicants need to spend considerable time apart during processing, so they don't consider that any reason to make exceptions.


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## qldguy (Sep 30, 2015)

............................................


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## CCMS (Oct 10, 2013)

Since you have already engaged an agent, it might be best to heed their advice and put your questions to them. You only end up confusing yourself otherwise. You should not expect to receive specific, and helpful, advice on a public forum on such a technical issue.


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## qldguy (Sep 30, 2015)

..............................


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## firemansam (May 10, 2015)

A bogus document is a bogus document. Age will not come into it. 
Heed your agents advice or possibly seek a second opinion of one of the experienced ones on this forum to make sure you are getting the best possible advice.


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## qldguy (Sep 30, 2015)

firemansam said:


> A bogus document is a bogus document. Age will not come into it.
> Heed your agents advice or possibly seek a second opinion of one of the experienced ones on this forum to make sure you are getting the best possible advice.


...........................................


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## qldguy (Sep 30, 2015)

Before I close this thread, I am asking if anyone knows:


A Partner Visa 309/100 is submitted (no issues with documents)

2 Months later, a Tourist Visa is Refused (PIC 4020 - bogus document)


Is the Partner Visa effected or does it only effect subsequent applications?

Thank you


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## CCMS (Oct 10, 2013)

*From the IMMi website:*

If you have applied for any of the following visas, you must satisfy PIC 4020:

skilled migration visas
business visas
temporary visas
student visas
family visas.

If you are refused under PIC 4020, you can make a new visa application but the following conditions will apply:

if you have not left Australia since your application was refused and you do not hold a valid visa, you can only apply for certain specified visas listed in Form 1026i Limitations on applications in Australia (48KB PDF)

if you are in Australia or outside Australia and hold another visa (besides a Bridging visa) you can make a new visa application.

If you have been refused a visa for providing a bogus document or information that is false or misleading in the last three years and you apply for a new visa (where that visa includes PIC 4020 as part of the criteria), you must provide reasons why the visa should be granted. These reasons must be either:

compelling circumstances affecting Australia
or
compelling or compassionate reasons affecting an Australian citizen, permanent resident or eligible New Zealand citizen.

*From the Migration regulations:*

4020 (1) There is no evidence before the Minister that the applicant has given, or caused to be given, to the Minister, an officer, the Tribunal during the review of a Part 5-reviewable decision, a relevant assessing authority or a Medical Officer of the Commonwealth, a bogus document or information that is false or misleading in a material particular in relation to:

(a) the application for the visa; or

(b) a visa that the applicant held in the period of 12 months before the application was made.

(2) The Minister is satisfied that during the period:

(a) starting 3 years before the application was made; and

(b) ending when the Minister makes a decision to grant or refuse to grant the visa;

the applicant and each member of the family unit of the applicant has not been refused a visa because of a failure to satisfy the criteria in subclause (1).

(2AA) However, subclause (2) does not apply to the applicant if, at the time the application for the refused visa was made, the applicant was under 18.

(2A) The applicant satisfies the Minister as to the applicant's identity.

(2B) The Minister is satisfied that during the period:

(a) starting 10 years before the application was made; and

(b) ending when the Minister makes a decision to grant or refuse to grant the visa;

neither the applicant, nor any member of the family unit of the applicant, has been refused a visa because of a failure to satisfy the criteria in subclause (2A).

(2BA) However, subclause (2B) does not apply to the applicant if, at the time the application for the refused visa was made, the applicant was under 18.

(3) To avoid doubt, subclauses (1) and (2) apply whether or not the Minister became aware of the bogus document or information that is false or misleading in a material particular because of information given by the applicant.

(4) The Minister may waive the requirements of any or all of paragraphs (1)(a) or (b) and subclause (2) if satisfied that:

(a) compelling circumstances that affect the interests of Australia; or

(b) compassionate or compelling circumstances that affect the interests of an Australian citizen, an Australian permanent resident or an eligible New Zealand citizen;

justify the granting of the visa.

(5) In this clause:

" information that is false or misleading in a material particular " means information that is:

(a) false or misleading at the time it is given; and

(b) relevant to any of the criteria the Minister may consider when making a decision on an application, whether or not the decision is made because of that information.

Note: For the definition of bogus document , see subsection 5(1) of the Act.


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## qldguy (Sep 30, 2015)

Thanks Nick, I did also read both of those sites before posting, however I am a little uncertain about the solid answer out of it.

Immigration does not mention any effect on previously submitted applications.

Migration regulations says it effects the Application made (Tourist Visa) and any Visas *held* 12 months prior - ie. if you are in Australia on a visa that turns our to be bogus, then it will be cancelled. Again, i cannot see any mention of previous applications (without bogus document) which are still in processing.

It's fine if no one know this technical question. I just see this forum has many knowledgeable agents and I thought it was worth asking. My agent has only told me 'it should be fine' which is not really a solid answer.


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## CCMS (Oct 10, 2013)

I wouldn't even attempt to interpret the legislation in regards to your case without having full access to all the facts and documentation.

In general terms though, PIC 4020 only seems to apply to the current application or to a visa that the applicant held in the period of 12 months before the current application was made, not to an application that was made prior to another application, which was subsequently affected by PIC 4020.


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## qldguy (Sep 30, 2015)

CCMS said:


> I wouldn't even attempt to interpret the legislation in regards to your case without having full access to all the facts and documentation.
> 
> In general terms though, PIC 4020 only seems to apply to the current application or to a visa that the applicant held in the period of 12 months before the current application was made, not to an application that was made prior to another application, which was subsequently affected by PIC 4020.


I appreciate your reply Nick, thank you again this helps my understanding.


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