# From a 457 visa to permanent residency



## yq2013 (Aug 24, 2013)

Hello! Happy to have found this forum! I am a Chinese national and have a research position at an Australian university on a 457 visa. I have worked for a year already, and have two more years to go on a three-year post-doctoral research fellowship.

I know that a 457 visa holder can apply for permanent residency after having worked for two years in Australia. I am wondering, however, whether I could start applying for permanent residency already now, instead of waiting another year. It'd be great if I could get some tips from those of you who know the process! Also, if any of you have a good migration agent to recommend in Canberra or Sydney, please let me know. 

Thanks a lot! 

Ylena


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

Hi Ylena -

As a migration agent I'd be happy to comment on your situation. There are two primary means of achieving permanent residency (PR) in Australia based on employment or skills - one is the employer sponsored PR visas (ENS subclass 186 and RSMS subclass 187) and the other is with a skilled visa - either independent (subclass 189) or state/territory sponsored (subclass 190). 

Each of these visas has their own set of requirements, plus requirements in some cases for skills assessment and state sponsorship. The pathway (2 years) I believe you may be thinking of is the temporary residence transitional (TRT) pathway for the ENS or RSMS visa. This is one way, however if you have a positive skills assessment and a score of at least 6 on each band of the IELTS English test, you could apply for the direct entry ENS pathway now if you employer is willing to sponsor you.

If you are not looking at employer sponsorship, then skilled visas are worth looking at - same IELTS requirement as the direct entry ENS (6+ on each band), plus you need to have an occupation on the CSOL or SOL occupation lists and have enough points through age, educational qualification(s), work experience, and other factors to apply for the particular skilled visa.

This is a somewhat oversimplified introduction to the process - if you have any specific questions I can assist with, please don't hesitate to ask.

Best,

Mark Northam


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## yq2013 (Aug 24, 2013)

*Thank you!*

Hello, Mark,

Thank you so much for replying so quickly to my inquiry and for giving such clear explanations. I have already checked out the documents on the immigration gov website, and found that both the direct entry route and the skilled migration route could work for me. I will discuss this with my employer and see whether they are willing to sponsor me for the direct entry route. If they can't do it, I will try the skilled migration route.

Thank you again for such timely and knowledgeable help! What a wonderful first experience with this forum!! I will write back with updates! Thanks again!

Ylena


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

Hi Ylena -

Sounds good - and I'm glad you had a great first experience here! I think you'll find folks here friendly and helpful. Do check back with any questions, and best of luck!

Best,

Mark Northam


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## Charlotta (Apr 12, 2014)

HI.
If I may continue on this thread, since I have kind of the same question. I am currently (since June last year) on a 457 VISA. What are my options in regards of getting permanent residency? I do not have a University degree, so getting the Skilled assessment box ticked is not an option as I understand. I do have more than 3 years in my profession, Retail (Merchandise) Planner, (which falls under Retail Buyer). I am 42 years old. And, in what ways am I bound to stay with my current employer? Do I have to be 2 years with the same, or if I get a new sponsor, will I have to restart the count for the 2 years? I hope you know what I mean. I am not sure I know


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

Hi Charlotta -

Would have to do a detailed assessment of your case to give you any specific advice, however generally speaking people for whom a skills assessment is not a good option often look to the Temporary Resident Transition (TRT) stream of the subclass 186 ENS visa for employer sponsored PR. Among other requirements, that requires 2 years work for the nominating employer in the nominated occupation. If you change employers, the 2 year clock starts again re: qualifying for the TRT ENS visa. Once you've put in the 2 years on a 457, it is the employer's option (not requirement) to nominate you for the ENS visa. 

Hope this helps -

Best,

Mark Northam


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## Charlotta (Apr 12, 2014)

Thanks for a rapid reply! So what you are saying, even though my "skill" is on the list, and I have been in this line of work for more than 3 years before coming to Australia, I am left with 1 VISA option? When/ If they nominate me; what are the requirements I need to live up to? Do I have to stay with them for a certain amount of time?


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

Hi Charlotta -

One of the problems with the immigration system the way it currently stands is that different skills assessing organisations are free to make up their own rules - some requires a Bachelor degree, some have a "RPL" (recognition of prior learning) option where x years of work experience can substitute for a Bachelor degree. There's no consistency at all, which makes applicant's jobs that much tougher as you have to dissect the requirements of the particular skills assessor you have to use to see what they require. For 457 visa, there is a standard set of requirements having to do with the ANZSCO directory for being seen as "skilled" for this visa - see this directory for more: http://www.immi.gov.au/asri/ - if you meet the requirements here for your particular occupation (ie, "Bachelors degree or 5 years relevant work experience" or whatever is specified for your particular occupation), then that generally satisfies the 457 skilled requirements unless there are special conditions for your particular occupation, or unless the case officer believes you may not be skilled and requires you to take a skills assessment.

For skilled provisional and PR visas (subclasses 489, 190, 189), the skills expectations are higher, and require a full skills assessment from the nominated skills assessing authority for your occupation. They make their own requirements up about degrees, work experience, etc.

Re: ENS employer sponsored PR visa and employment, evidence of a contract is required (see visa requirements for all the various specific requirements for this visa), however if you or the employer decide to break or cancel the agreement after the visa is granted, assuming DIBP doesn't think the contract was a fraud to begin with, ending the contract early does not affect your visa once granted.

Hope this helps -

Best,

Mark Northam


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## australia1234 (Apr 26, 2014)

hi,
I have question and i hope if you could please help me with,
i applied for my 457 visa on 1\9\2012 and got it on 1\11\2012. i have started the work with my employer on 1/9/2012.
i am wondering if we start calculating the 2 years from 1/9/2012 or from 1/11/2012 in order to be eligable to apply for PR?
your help will be much appreciated.

neck


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

Hi Neck -

The 2 year requirement for the Temporary Resident pathway for the ENS or RSMS visas would only consider work while you held a 457 visa towards the 2 year requirement for this pathway - work under any other visa (or a bridging visa) would not generally count towards the 2 year requirement.

Hope this helps -

Best,

Mark Northam


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## australia1234 (Apr 26, 2014)

hi Mark
thank you for your quick reply.
i will be thankful if you could please share with us any anticipation for any major changes to temporary resident stream in the comming period.

thanks again for your help

regards


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

Hi -

Would love to, but usually we don't get details in advance on these things for the most part - will always post whatever I can -

Best,

Mark Northam



australia1234 said:


> hi Mark
> thank you for your quick reply.
> i will be thankful if you could please share with us any anticipation for any major changes to temporary resident stream in the comming period.
> 
> ...


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## Honey Kumar (Apr 26, 2014)

*Regarding 457 visa*

Hello Mark

I am currently on 457 visa from last 8 months. I heard boss want to sell his business. I am just wondering, if he sell his business then it's going to effect my visa. 
Thanks


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

Hi Honey -

Thanks for the note - yes, it could absolutely affect your business. If the business ceases to be a Standard Business Sponsor (for example, if the new business has a new ABN number and is a different legal entity), the new business will need to apply for and become a Standard Business Sponsor in order to continue sponsoring you. If the new owner keeps the business, ABN, and simply purchases the business as-is, then it's likely they can continue on sponsoring you on your 457.

So the answer is yes, depending on what happens with the new business and how the sale is structured.

Hope this helps -

Best,

Mark Northam



Honey Kumar said:


> Hello Mark
> 
> I am currently on 457 visa from last 8 months. I heard boss want to sell his business. I am just wondering, if he sell his business then it's going to effect my visa.
> Thanks


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## Wendy Daunt (Apr 28, 2014)

My son has completed the following

Kangan Institute (2 year course) Cert. III – Engineering – Fabrication Trade – Diploma if Engineering Advanced Trade
Choice Industrial Training – Cert IV – Welding/Heavy Fabrication 

He has worked in the same trade since July 2012 but with my present employer (sponsor) since May 2013

He is presently on a 457 visa and would like to know when he can apply for PR. 

New to this site so not sure if I am on the right page.

Wendy Daunt


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

Hi Wendy -

Suggest you check out Skilled Visas on the imm.gov.au site and see how he fits in with the requirements there. Also may be possible for his employer to sponsor him for an employer sponsored 186 or 187 visa after he's worked for that employer for 2 years if he meets the other criteria. Each visa has quite a list of requirements, so there's no shortcut for carefully reviewing the requirements for each visa and then seeing how your son fits. Skilled visa possibilities could be 189, 190, 489, or employer sponsored 186 or 187.

Hope this helps -

Best,

Mark Northam


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## Hafeez (Jun 7, 2014)

Hi Mark,

I hold 457 visa since 15 months, my partner also holds the dependent visa. Recently my partner has delivered a baby in India. I would like to apply for the dependent visa for my child. Please let me know how to proceed with the application. Which documents do I need to submit and what is the visa fee for the child? Do I need to inform the Immigration about the child birth before I lodge the visa?


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

Hi Hafeez -

Thanks for the note and emails - as your child was born outside Australia, you will need to lodge a 457 subsequent entrant (secondary applicant) application for the child using the online 457 eLodgement system. You'll first need to get the baby a passport from your home country, and you'll need a scanned copy of the passport and birth certificate to make the application. Will also need letter from the sponsor extending the nomination to the child and evidence of health insurance for the child. These usually take a few weeks to process.

Hope this helps -

Best,

Mark Northam



Hafeez said:


> Hi Mark,
> 
> I hold 457 visa since 15 months, my partner also holds the dependent visa. Recently my partner has delivered a baby in India. I would like to apply for the dependent visa for my child. Please let me know how to proceed with the application. Which documents do I need to submit and what is the visa fee for the child? Do I need to inform the Immigration about the child birth before I lodge the visa?


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## spindoctor (Feb 9, 2011)

G'day Mark

I have a situation here where it may be a little complex. 

I'm currently on a 457 visa, sponsored as a motor mechanic but working as a forklift mechanic, granted in Jan 2014. Seeing how the laws can change quite drastically, I've decided to gather as much information and "fast track" to a permanent residency via an skilled independent 189 visa. FYI, prior to my current job as a forklift mechanic, i was a motor mechanic. I did a self assessment and scored 60 points although if I work my IELTS a lot harder, I could do 70 points.


Now here are my questions :-

Does higher points stand a better chance for getting an invitation from skill select?


if I submit the application for the 189 visa, how will that affect my current 457 visa if it's successful or not successful?

TRA stated that my job be closely related to my job role. I had 2 years experience as a motor mechanic and a year as a forklift mechanic. I assume assessment should be the same right?

Is there anything else I should know or worry about? 



Thanks Mark


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

Hi Spindoctor -

Thanks for the note. I can't advise on your specific situation as I don't have all of your details and documents, but generally higher points on the 189 means an invitation sooner, especially if the occupation has a lot of people competing for places. However statistics show that the majority of 189 invitations go to people with 60 points.

Application for 189 while holding 457: if 189 successful, it would replace 457 visa upon grant of the 189. IF 189 unsuccessful, no effect on 457 as long as you're holding the 457 when the 189 is refused. However depending on reason(s) why 189 is refused, that may cause issues with future visa applications - especially if refused on PIC 4020 (false info/documents), etc.

Re: TRA, motor mechanic vs forklift mechanic, that would be a TRA call as to whether your experience as a forklift mechanic is closely related to the ANZSCO requirements for motor mechanic.

For other requirements best to see DIBP checklist for documents, evidence, etc. Main thing that goes wrong with 189's in my experience is applicant not being able to justify the points claimed in EOI - often this involves work experience reference letters and other documents (payslips, etc) that do not properly evidence the work claimed.

Hope this helps -

Best,

Mark Northam



spindoctor said:


> G'day Mark
> 
> I have a situation here where it may be a little complex.
> 
> ...


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## jimmy1430 (Jun 19, 2014)

*Question*

Hi, Mark read everything on this blog. i have two questions in my mind after reading this thread.
Q1:- I am on 457 visa working as Sales & marketing manager & will be very close to complete my Bachelor Degree in Business Management soon before of my 2 years of employment, Can i able to apply for direct P.R in this case or not?
Q2:- if by chance i have total 3 years of Australian working experience as an sale & marketing manager along with my Bachelor in same field do i need sponsorship again from my employer after completion of 2 years job to apply for my Permanent Residency?


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

Hi Jimmy -

Thanks for the note - it not possible for me to do individual assessments here on the forum as there are simply too many details that are required in order to determine eligibility for a visa, especially a skilled visa.

Applications for Australian visas often have to deal with three different sets of rules and regulations: skills assessment authority regulations, state and territory sponsorship regulations, and visa regulations from the Department of Immigration and Border Protection. As a result, determining which visa(s) an applicant for is a complex question and not able to be answered in a quick back & forth emails or forum posts.

We offer a professional consultation designed to provide the time necessary to work through your situation, answer your questions, and gather enough information about your situation to determine exactly which visa(s) you may qualify for and the steps you would need to do to apply.

If you'd like to book a consultation, we offer this service by phone, Skype and at our office in Parramatta. For more information or to book, visit our website listed in my signature below.

Thanks again for the enquiry -

Best,

Mark Northam



jimmy1430 said:


> Hi, Mark read everything on this blog. i have two questions in my mind after reading this thread.
> Q1:- I am on 457 visa working as Sales & marketing manager & will be very close to complete my Bachelor Degree in Business Management soon before of my 2 years of employment, Can i able to apply for direct P.R in this case or not?
> Q2:- if by chance i have total 3 years of Australian working experience as an sale & marketing manager along with my Bachelor in same field do i need sponsorship again from my employer after completion of 2 years job to apply for my Permanent Residency?


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## jimmy1430 (Jun 19, 2014)

Is there any charge for this ?


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

Hi Jimmy -

Yes - it's $195 for a one-hour consultation.

Best,

Mark Northam



jimmy1430 said:


> Is there any charge for this ?


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## jimmy1430 (Jun 19, 2014)

ok thanks for letting me know.


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## jeffsantos23 (Jun 23, 2014)

Hi Mark,

I hope you could help me.

I am on a 457 visa as primary applicant.
I am unhappy with my sponsoring employer and wanted to leave them. 
Now my wife who is with me as a dependent is to be sponsored by her employer under RSMS. 
If she lodges her application and put me as her dependent are we going to receive a BVA?
If yes, what happens if I decided to leave my employer during the time of the application?

I saw on the other forums with the same situation, that when they left their 457 visa employer, both the bridging visa and 457 were cancelled. I am not sure if this is true. 

Please help...


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## Maggie-May24 (Jul 24, 2011)

You need to comply with the conditions of your 457 visa until your RSMS is approved, so if you leave your current nominating employer you will have 90 days to find a new sponsor. If you don't, DIBP can start the process to cancel your 457 and your BVA will be cancelled along with it.


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## jeffsantos23 (Jun 23, 2014)

maggie-may24 said:


> You need to comply with the conditions of your 457 visa until your RSMS is approved, so if you leave your current nominating employer you will have 90 days to find a new sponsor. If you don't, DIBP can start the process to cancel your 457 and your BVA will be cancelled along with it.


Thanks Maggie. What about my wife's BVA will i get affected as well?


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

Hi Jeffsantos23 -

If your 457 and BVA are cancelled, that would still leave your wife's RSMS application and her BVA intact, but potentially creates a mess for you as you'd be in Australia unlawfully as of the moment that the 457 and BVA (from RSMS) were cancelled. Suggest you get professional assistance if you are considering this route.

Hope this helps -

Best,

Mark Northam


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## jeffsantos23 (Jun 23, 2014)

MarkNortham said:


> Hi Jeffsantos23 -
> 
> If your 457 and BVA are cancelled, that would still leave your wife's RSMS application and her BVA intact, but potentially creates a mess for you as you'd be in Australia unlawfully as of the moment that the 457 and BVA (from RSMS) were cancelled. Suggest you get professional assistance if you are considering this route.
> 
> ...


Thank you Mark. 
That really sucks.
I thought if I leave my employer I have 90 days to find a new sponsor or apply for a new substantive visa. 
What if I leave my employer first and during that 90 days my wife applies for the RSMS? would it be the same thing?


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

Hi Jeffsantos23 -

Sorry for any misunderstanding - what you're saying is correct as well - if rather than cancel your 457, you leave one job and are able to find another sponsoring employer within 90 days, then your 457 would continue. Or, you could apply for another substantive visa during that time. However making an application as a secondary applicant for a RSMS would still leave your 457 running until it's expiration date, and if you were unable to find a sponsor during that time, the 457 is liable for cancellation which would wipe out the BV-A from an RSMS application (see below).

However if you leave your employer and during the 90 days your wife applies for an RSMS visa, that application would not affect your 457 or the 90 day issue. The problem would come at the end of 90 days if you did not have a new sponsoring employer and DIBP elected to cancel the 457 visa - that would wipe out your BV-A from the RSMS application you were on with your wife, leaving you unlawful. You could then apply for a Bridging Visa E to remain in Australia until the RSMS decision occurred, but it would not come with work rights - you'd have to apply for those based on the joint finances of you and your wife and show that you would suffer a financial hardship if not allowed to work. BV-E's come with other issues as well - suggest you get professional guidance if you are considering this route.

Hope this helps -

Best,

Mark Northam


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## jeffsantos23 (Jun 23, 2014)

MarkNortham said:


> Hi Jeffsantos23 -
> 
> Sorry for any misunderstanding - what you're saying is correct as well - if rather than cancel your 457, you leave one job and are able to find another sponsoring employer within 90 days, then your 457 would continue. Or, you could apply for another substantive visa during that time. However making an application as a secondary applicant for a RSMS would still leave your 457 running until it's expiration date, and if you were unable to find a sponsor during that time, the 457 is liable for cancellation which would wipe out the BV-A from an RSMS application (see below).
> 
> ...


Thanks for your response Mark. I appreciate it.

I guess the best option for us is not to leave my employment until my wife's RSMS application is successful. Once the RSMS visa is granted, that overrides our 457 and from there I can leave my employment.

Sorry Mark but one last question:
what if I leave my employer and request immigration to have my 457 visa cancelled, which will leave us with no substantive visa in Australia. Once cancelled, we will straight away apply for an RSMS visa and that will leave us with a BVC right?

I saw on the immigration website that BVC is given to applicants who does not have any substantive visa in Australia when they applied for a substantive visa. We will have working rights as we are applying for an RSMS.

Sorry for a lot of questions.

Thank you heaps.


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## Adam Grey (Nov 8, 2013)

Mark is too kind to say it, but I'd suggest booking a consultation with him if you want to weigh up all the many different pros and cons of a strategy in this situation. There's an awful lot to consider and a forum is not the ideal place to discuss it.


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

Hi Jeffsantos23 -

I'll second what Adam said - you're getting into a very tricky area of migration law and there are no quick/easy/simple answers to these questions. For instance, BVC's do not come with work rights by default - you have to qualify for them. The DIBP website is an incomplete, highly oversimplified view of what's going on this area, and has no legal standing. It's the tip of the iceberg, at best.

Would suggest booking a consultation with Adam, myself, or a migration agent who can help you work out the details of your plan in this area - there are many "moving parts" to consider including citizenship qualification issues and others.

Hope this helps -

Best,

Mark Northam



jeffsantos23 said:


> Thanks for your response Mark. I appreciate it.
> 
> I guess the best option for us is not to leave my employment until my wife's RSMS application is successful. Once the RSMS visa is granted, that overrides our 457 and from there I can leave my employment.
> 
> ...


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## KASHYAPA (Jul 10, 2014)

Dear Mark

Request your help on the following: 2 issues one on 457 and other on EOI Status. Being an expert with rich experience, I look foward to your help

1. After my 4 years bachelor of Engieering/Technology in my country, I did my 2 years Masters (Advanced) from one of the G8 Universities of Australia and worked in Australia under bridging visa and then TR and worked in companies in the relevant industry in R&D (listed in CSOL). I applied for 189 visa before end of my TR visa expiry, but could NOT get my skill assessment by VITESSES done before expiry o my TR visa due to their reason of heavy backlog etc and this forced me to leave the country, though my job was in intact and they never asked me to leave; actually they were very happy with my work. Finally I got positive assessment score and submitted my EOI thru' my Govt. approved migration agent in early Jan 2014 with a points based score of over min. 60 (my age being 26).Till date I did NOT get any response nor rejection message from my migration agent, and on my constant follow up, I am told, I would get it. I read messages from many that they could get the invite for 189 Visa in 6 weeks time etc. Unfortunately, in my case, I'm at a loss to understand the status of EOI. Can you please suggest something on this as to what should be my action next.

2. In the meantime, as my 189 is NOT getting approved, my employer had sponsored 457 Visa and applied thru' one of the top and well known MARAs with all documents (even medical done outside Australia, police etc) and got confirmation of receipt of documents from DIAC on 30th May 2014. Till date, no response on this as well. 

I'm unable to understand what to know, where my 2 issues got stuck and for what reason. Unfortunately, my precious time of my lie is getting wasted and am helpless. Request your help to my action points at this juncture.

Warm Regards
Smaran


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

Hi Kashyapa -

Thanks for the note and sorry to hear of your visa issues. I'll try to help -

Re: EOI, the key to if/when you would get an invitation is how many other people are waiting in the pool of applicants with scores of 60 or over, and how many DIBP chooses from that pool for each round. Both numbers are unpublished, so no way to tell for sure. I would request a copy of your EOI and the "Points Breakdown" document - both are easily downloadable from the SkillSelect EOI screen. At least then you can check if the EOI has been recorded properly. The waiting times for any profession can be anywhere from a few weeks to many months depending on the two numbers I mentioned above.

Re; Agents, if they are not communicating with you, then fire them or replace them. You deserve better, and lame agents do not deserve to have continued business when they aren't even willing to maintain good communications with clients. Your agent becomes your exclusive pipeline to information to/from DIBP about your case - that's way too important to leave in the hands of someone who is not willing to put in the time and trouble to be an excellent communicator!

Re: 457, these are taking a bit longer these days for reasons I don't know - have seen nominations taking 6+ weeks, visa applications taking 4+ weeks or more.

Hope this helps -

Best,

Mark Northam



KASHYAPA said:


> Dear Mark
> 
> Request your help on the following: 2 issues one on 457 and other on EOI Status. Being an expert with rich experience, I look foward to your help
> 
> ...


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## KASHYAPA (Jul 10, 2014)

Hi Mark

Simcerely thank you very much for your lightning speed of reply to my points and so specific to the hardcore issues of mine. I will definitely get back to you with the dates you wanted me to check at my end, to get your help and to resolve the severity of my issue.

Thanks and regards
KASHYAPA


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## Wendy Daunt (Apr 28, 2014)

*485 - Job Ready to PR*

Hi Mark
My son is on a 485 visa which runs out end of this month - He has completed the Job Ready Program and is awaiting a final certificate (document) post the payment. Is there a bridging visa he can apply for whilst applying for PR because I believe he will now be able to apply for PR.

Please reply urgently.

Many thanks,
Wendy


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

Hi Wendy -

Not that I know of - bridging visas are designed to work alongside a lodged visa application, not in advance of one in most cases. Depending on the type of PR visa being anticipated, I'd look at trying to accelerate the process. If it's state sponsored, that will take several months normally - if it's a subclass 189 independent skilled visa, that can generate an invitation to apply sooner depending on his points test, etc. If I can assist further in looking at different types of visas, etc would be happy to at a consultation - see website link below for our website - look for professional consultation link.

Hope this helps -

Best,

Mark Northam



Wendy Daunt said:


> Hi Mark
> My son is on a 485 visa which runs out end of this month - He has completed the Job Ready Program and is awaiting a final certificate (document) post the payment. Is there a bridging visa he can apply for whilst applying for PR because I believe he will now be able to apply for PR.
> 
> Please reply urgently.
> ...


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## shingonakai (Sep 2, 2014)

Hi, I'm coming from Hong Kong and I'm interested to become a PR of Aus in near future. I'm currently in my last year of PhD and my major is in Biological Science/Biotech/oncology research and at the same time I'm also working as a research assistant in the past 8 years. For English proficiency, my level is higher than a competent level and at the moment I've found my occupation is listed under the CSOL category. I have recently been suggested by some local agents that if I come over to do another Diploma course, my chance of leading myself to a PR would be higher. However, I'm also thinking of applying for a postdoc position. Anyone may give me suggestions in which way or what path should I go to in order to become a PR of Aus please?


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

Hi Shingonakai -

Not sure I see the benefit of a one-year Diploma course for someone who already has a PhD (or will have one soon) - I'd look at the employer sponsored visas such as 457 if you can find a sponsoring employer (can lead to PR in 2 years) or a state sponsored skilled visa (subclass 190 or 489).

Hope this helps -

Best,

Mark Northam



shingonakai said:


> Hi, I'm coming from Hong Kong and I'm interested to become a PR of Aus in near future. I'm currently in my last year of PhD and my major is in Biological Science/Biotech/oncology research and at the same time I'm also working as a research assistant in the past 8 years. For English proficiency, my level is higher than a competent level and at the moment I've found my occupation is listed under the CSOL category. I have recently been suggested by some local agents that if I come over to do another Diploma course, my chance of leading myself to a PR would be higher. However, I'm also thinking of applying for a postdoc position. Anyone may give me suggestions in which way or what path should I go to in order to become a PR of Aus please?


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## shingonakai (Sep 2, 2014)

Hi Mark.

Thanks for the reply. 
I've actually seen you posting at Linedin as well, I'm wondering how would you actually be able to help people like us to look for a sponsored employer? Is it by job referral or so? 

BTW, this morning I've been reading at some information and I've found that the State nomination scheme for PhD graduates in Victoria, my occupation category is listed under the state nominee list : Life scientist nec, with working experiences of 5 yrs, of your experience, does it required to be at a high rank such as Prof., postdoc or so? Because for the past 7.5 yrs I've been working in this field as a research assistant, would that be counted as the required working experience? (info obtained from Live in Vitoria website)

Thanks.


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

Hi Shingonakai -

Thanks for the note. As a migration agent I spend most of my time helping people get visas, and am not involved in helping find employers to sponsor- there's a good online source for this though - see AustJobs

Would need to see your detailed CV in a consultation to analyse and give you any specific advice re: occupation choice and requirements.

Hope this helps -

Best,

Mark Northam



shingonakai said:


> Hi Mark.
> 
> Thanks for the reply.
> I've actually seen you posting at Linedin as well, I'm wondering how would you actually be able to help people like us to look for a sponsored employer? Is it by job referral or so?
> ...


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## Ellie42 (Sep 9, 2014)

Hi Mark, 

I've been in Australia for almost three years and I'd like to apply for permanent residency. I've been on a 457 visa with the same employer since Aug 2012. 

However, I also have an Australian partner. 

Do you think the employer sponsored PR would be a good option for me? Or would I be better going down the de facto route?

Thanks!


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

Hi Ellie42 -

Either could work - the Employer Sponsored PR is probably a bit less paperwork and hassle, and the application fees are lower than the onshore partner visa - also the partner visa will probably take longer to be approved. Happy to discuss details in a consultation if you'd like - link to website below -

Hope this helps -

Best,

Mark Northam



Ellie42 said:


> Hi Mark,
> 
> I've been in Australia for almost three years and I'd like to apply for permanent residency. I've been on a 457 visa with the same employer since Aug 2012.
> 
> ...


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## Ellie42 (Sep 9, 2014)

Hi Mark, 

thanks for getting back to me so quickly!

And thank you for the advice. I'll look into making an appointment to discuss in more detail. 

Thanks,

Ellie


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## australia1234 (Apr 26, 2014)

*nick*

hi Mark

i have been on 457 now for 17 months. in the first 3 months i got paid less than the market salary( less than my contract). after that i got paid above the market summery (as in my contract).

could you please advice me when i can apply for PR after 7 months or 10 months from now.

many thanks


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

Hi Australia1234 -

If DIBP finds out you were paid less than your contract, your employer may be liable for sanctions. Suggest you wait 10 months and hope DIBP only asks for 2 years worth of payslips as evidence for PR visa (so doesn't include the time they paid you less than the contract. Very dangerous for your employer to have done that - puts both their sponsor status and possibly your ability to get PR at risk.

Hope this helps -

Best,

Mark Northam



australia1234 said:


> hi Mark
> 
> i have been on 457 now for 17 months. in the first 3 months i got paid less than the market salary( less than my contract). after that i got paid above the market summery (as in my contract).
> 
> ...


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## australia1234 (Apr 26, 2014)

MarkNortham said:


> Hi Australia1234 -
> 
> If DIBP finds out you were paid less than your contract, your employer may be liable for sanctions. Suggest you wait 10 months and hope DIBP only asks for 2 years worth of payslips as evidence for PR visa (so doesn't include the time they paid you less than the contract. Very dangerous for your employer to have done that - puts both their sponsor status and possibly your ability to get PR at risk.
> 
> ...


hi Mark
thank you for your quick reply.

is there any way I can clarify this less payment, like I agreed to get paid less or the business was down at that time or any acceptable reasonable condition by DIAC for that.

many Thanks


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

It's tricky. Here's the thing - the employer agreed to pay you a certain annual figure. If he paid that to you, but just not in equal instalments, he may have a reasonable excuse. But if the total amount you were paid over the first 12 months of the employment was not equal to (or greater than) the amount agreed to in the nomination, then DIBP may have serious issues as that would be a breach of the nominated base salary. I'm not saying that there will be no problems if he paid you the agreed upon amount in the first 12 months, but there will be much less of a chance of an issue if he did.

Hope this helps -

Best,

Mark Northam



australia1234 said:


> hi Mark
> thank you for your quick reply.
> 
> is there any way I can clarify this less payment, like I agreed to get paid less or the business was down at that time or any acceptable reasonable condition by DIAC for that.
> ...


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## Sharansomal (Oct 7, 2014)

Hello Mark,
I want to ask my 457 was granted in January 2013 and I started working with my employer in April 2013. So can I be nominated for PR in January as after 2 years of my visa grant or in april2015 after complishment of 2 years of my work?


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## Maggie-May24 (Jul 24, 2011)

If you plan to apply under the Temporary Residence Transition stream, you can't be nominated or apply until after you have *worked* 2 years on your 457 in the nominated occupation with the nominating employer. So that would be April 2015 in your case.


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## yotsuba (Oct 30, 2014)

Hi,

I just want to ask something before I proceed logging my EOI. 
I was granted 457 and started work this August 2014. So technically, I've been to the employer for 2 months. I know that after 2 years, the employer could sponsor me but I don't want to go through it anymore so as not to be "bonded" with them. Aside from the fact that the company might lay-off some employees because of lack of clients.

So to make the long story short... 
When I was given 457, was I already assessed for my skills by VETASSESS or ACS?

If yes, can I just reuse the assessment? and proceed on logging EOI?

Thanks


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

Hi Yotsuba -

Probably not - normally 457 visas do not require a skills assessment - you'd have to check your application package and see what was submitted.

Hope this helps -

Best,

Mark Northam



yotsuba said:


> Hi,
> 
> I just want to ask something before I proceed logging my EOI.
> I was granted 457 and started work this August 2014. So technically, I've been to the employer for 2 months. I know that after 2 years, the employer could sponsor me but I don't want to go through it anymore so as not to be "bonded" with them. Aside from the fact that the company might lay-off some employees because of lack of clients.
> ...


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## Maggie-May24 (Jul 24, 2011)

For most applicants, a 457 visa application doesn't require any skills assessment. If you did have one, it may still be usable but you'd need to look at the assessment document as well as the DIBP website (I think they're only valid for 3 years from the date of the assessment).

If you do get sponsored by your employer for a PR visa (i.e. 186 visa), you aren't obligated to work for them for any specified period of time after the visa is granted. However, if you were to live immediately after the visa was granted, it could look questionable and it's possible your employer could complain to DIBP that you applied with no intention to remain with them.


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## yotsuba (Oct 30, 2014)

Thanks Mark and Maggie!


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## henryyifengxu (Nov 20, 2014)

Hi Mark It is good to talk to you.I am going to get 457 visa which has 4 years contract with my employer. My question is that is there any terms of law to confine my employer to sponsor me to apply for PR ,in other words does my employer bear legal obligation to sponsor me to apply for PR


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## Maggie-May24 (Jul 24, 2011)

No, your employer has no legal obligation to sponsor you for PR. You can try to negotiate that into your contract but keep in mind that it may be hard to enforce that as it's possible the employer may not meet the criteria to sponsor PR when the time comes.


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## vikram990 (Dec 9, 2014)

MarkNortham said:


> Hi Yotsuba - Probably not - normally 457 visas do not require a skills assessment - you'd have to check your application package and see what was submitted. Hope this helps - Best, Mark Northam


Hi mark I have one question for you if you can pls help me? I have cert 4 in hospitality but I have only 6 months work experience. Am I eligible for positive skill assessment ? Thx


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

Hi Vikram990 -

You need to check carefully with the specific skills assessor for your occupation, however a C4 without 2 years of experience (including on-the-job training) may be a problem - check with the assessor for more info.

Hope this helps -

Best,

Mark Northam



vikram990 said:


> Hi mark I have one question for you if you can pls help me? I have cert 4 in hospitality but I have only 6 months work experience. Am I eligible for positive skill assessment ? Thx


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## vikram990 (Dec 9, 2014)

MarkNortham said:


> Hi Vikram990 - You need to check carefully with the specific skills assessor for your occupation, however a C4 without 2 years of experience (including on-the-job training) may be a problem - check with the assessor for more info. Hope this helps - Best, Mark Northam


Hi mark thanks for your quick and prompt reply. 
One more question .. do I need skill assessment for 189 or 190 visa? Is it compulsory ? and what is professional year points? Thanks


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

Hi Vikram990 -

Yes, all skilled visas (489, 189, 190) require a positive skills assessment in hand before you lodge an Expression of Interest (IELTS too). Professional Year points are if you complete a specified, approved Professional Year course after your main qualification - see DIBP website for more on this.

Hope this helps -

Best,

Mark Northam



vikram990 said:


> Hi mark thanks for your quick and prompt reply.
> One more question .. do I need skill assessment for 189 or 190 visa? Is it compulsory ? and what is professional year points? Thanks


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## Senar (Jan 8, 2015)

Hi Mark,

I got my 457 in Sep 2012. My work required me to travel in and out of Oz. By the end of 2013 I needed to be back home with my family due to some circumstances and my employer was kind enough to let me take an extended leave of absence (without pay).

I am now able to get back to Oz to continue with the same employer, who would like me to be able to come out to Oz in late Feb. I would like to be able to take my wife and kids along with me.

I've talked with my employer and they are willing to sponsor my PR if I wish to apply for it.

My thoughts are

1. to have my family added on to my current (valid) 457 and take them along with me

2. I go by myself and then apply for employer sponsored PR for me and my family (is this possible?)

3. Have my family added to my 457, go with them and then apply for employer sponsored PR for all of us.

Would you be able to share your opinion on which of these is the best option that minimizes the separation from my wife and kids as well as the least expensive and quickest route for the PR.

Thanks in advance.


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

Hi Senar -

Thanks for the note. As your leave without pay (LWOP) exceeds 12 months, you need to be prepared to provide documentation and reasons to DIBP to justify it as their policy indicates that LWOP's > 12 months are subject to investigation as to whether your relationship with the employer truly continued during this time, even though you were not paid and not working for them.

Re: PR, that's a complex question as the different visas and pathways involved have specific requirements - would need to go through your situation in much greater detail at a consultation in order to give you specific advice - if you're interested, see link in my signature below to go to our website, then look for "Professional Consultation" link at the top of the screen - a 30 min consultation should cover what you need.

Hope this helps -

Best,

Mark Northam



Senar said:


> Hi Mark,
> 
> I got my 457 in Sep 2012. My work required me to travel in and out of Oz. By the end of 2013 I needed to be back home with my family due to some circumstances and my employer was kind enough to let me take an extended leave of absence (without pay).
> 
> ...


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## yueh (Jan 16, 2015)

wrong message posted.


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## deepak01 (Mar 22, 2015)

*457visa to PR*

hello, my name is Deepak. Today i am enquiring about 457 visa that i am on from last 19 months and i am working as a cook in queensland. just want to know that can my boss apply nomination before i complete my 2 years or i have to wait till i finish 2 years


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## Maggie-May24 (Jul 24, 2011)

If you are applying under the Temporary Resident Transition stream, then neither the nomination nor the application can be lodged before you've completed 2 years of work on your 457 visa. If you are applying under the Direct Entry stream, then these can be lodged at any time.


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## deepak01 (Mar 22, 2015)

*457 visa to PR*

Thanks for your quick reply. What is difference between Temporary Resident Transition stream and direct entry stream. I have 5.5 score in IELTS.


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## Maggie-May24 (Jul 24, 2011)

The main differences are:

- TRT stream requires you to have worked on a 457 for your nominating employer in the same occupation for 2 years before applying, while DE does not (can be less than 2 years on a 457 or never on a 457)
- DE stream requires you to have a positive skills assessment related to your occupation, while a TRT doesn't require a skills assessment at all


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## deepak01 (Mar 22, 2015)

*457 visa to PR*

hello my name is Deepak and i am on 457 visa. 5 more months to complete my 2 years. just want to enquire about my boss already approved nomination 3 months before. He sponsor another chef on 457 visa from same restaurant where i work and he got nomination for 3 years. can i use that nomination number to apply my Permanent residency and also can i include my parents in my permanent residency,is this possible.


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## Maggie-May24 (Jul 24, 2011)

Each nomination is unique and specifies the applicant (he needs to provide your passport number and name in the nomination). So they will need to submit a separate nomination for you.

You can perhaps include your parents if your employer includes them in the nomination and if you can prove your parents are fully dependent on you (live with you and you provide all financial and other support).


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## deepak01 (Mar 22, 2015)

*457 visa to pr*

Hello this is Deepak again. How much is immigration fees. if I want to include my parents in my nomination and pr file and they will also get PR at same time me.


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## Maggie-May24 (Jul 24, 2011)

Fee information is on the DIBP website: Fees and charges for visas

To include your parents under the Temporary Resident Transition stream, they would need to first be included/added to your 457 visa, which requires your employer to confirm in writing to extend the 457 nomination to include them. If they aren't already on your 457 visa, you may have a struggle to convince DIBP that they are suddenly dependent on you.


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## deepak01 (Mar 22, 2015)

*457 visa to PR*

Thanks maggie for information. at this stage i am single. but if get marry in months time before i apply my PR. can i also include my wife and my family. 
It will be safe to do this or i will face any problem to get australian PR.
Thanks


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## deepak01 (Mar 22, 2015)

*457 visa to PR*

hello Maggie, My boss don't have any issue if i include my parents in my 457 visa. But my enquiry is, can i apply their visa while they in India and do they have to visit Australia after their visa granted. How much is the fee to include my parents they are 58,59 age.


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## Maggie-May24 (Jul 24, 2011)

A former colleague applied to add a dependent while they were overseas so I assume you can apply while they are in India. However I think the challenge will be proving they are fully dependent on your if they don't currently live with you.


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## tpham33 (Sep 11, 2015)

Hello,

I am currently on a 457 visa.

1. Does the 2-year wait period to become eligible for permanent residency through the TRT stream start from the time the visa was granted or from the time I started working for my employer?

2. What supporting documents are required from my employer for the application?

3. I am also considering applying through the Direct Entry stream. What happens if the skill assessment is not successful? Will it hurt my eligibility for PR through TRT later?

Many thanks for your feedback.


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## CCMS (Oct 10, 2013)

tpham33 said:


> Hello, I am currently on a 457 visa. 1. Does the 2-year wait period to become eligible for permanent residency through the TRT stream start from the time the visa was granted or from the time I started working for my employer? 2. What supporting documents are required from my employer for the application? 3. I am also considering applying through the Direct Entry stream. What happens if the skill assessment is not successful? Will it hurt my eligibility for PR through TRT later? Many thanks for your feedback.


1) from the time you start work as it relates to the actual period of employment.
2) too complicated to deal with here. You can find some of it on the Immi website, but your employer would be well advised to get professional assistance with the nomination process. I definitely advise against the visa applicant trying to do it themselves.
3) if your skills assessment is refused, it has no bearing on a TRT application,,where no skills assessment is required.


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## tpham33 (Sep 11, 2015)

Hi Nick,

Thank you for your response.
For the Direct Entry's skill assessment, do I need any documentation from my employer, or can I do it independent of my employer?


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## Maggie-May24 (Jul 24, 2011)

You need to provide sufficient evidence regarding the duties performed in your role, plus evidence that it was paid employment. For most applicants this is done through an employer reference letter, pay advices, tax slips, job description, etc. Some applicants get a colleague to instead do a statutory declaration if the employer will not give a reference letter or if they don't want their employer to be aware they're applying for a visa.


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## Pinktulips (Sep 21, 2015)

Hi Folks,

Appreciate your advise here. My husband was granted 457 visa in April 2014 and we would like to apply for PR that we will become eligible for after April 2016. Presently, he has got an offer with the current employer to move to Europe for a couple of years and then return back to Australia as we would like to settle here. 

We have completed about 18 months here on our 457. If we move to Europe and then return after two years with the same employer, would these 18 months be taken into consideration for out PR application then or would the two years start again when the fresh 457 will be made with the same employer? 

Is there a requirement to stay in Australia for a certain period in a year once the PR is granted?

Many thanks, 
Tulip


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## Maggie-May24 (Jul 24, 2011)

There's no requirement to wait 2 years before applying for a PR visa. If he qualifies for his own independent visa (e.g. 189, 190) he can apply for it at any time. If his employer is willing to sponsor him on a 186 PR visa via Direct Entry Stream (and if he qualifies) he can apply for it at any time. If his employer is willing to sponsor him on a 186 PR visa via Temporary Resident Transition Stream, then he must wait until he's worked for them here in Australia at least 2 years on his 457 visa.

If you move to Europe, then his 457 would be cancelled and the 18 months already worked in Australia would not count towards applying under the TRT stream. He'd need to apply for a new 457 visa and the same options I mention above would apply (based on the current requirements for these visas).

Once the PR visa is granted, you can remain indefinitely. The travel rights only last 5 years though, so you'd need to either become citizens or get a Resident Return Visa if you wanted to travel and be able to re-enter Australia after those travel rights expire.


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## Pinktulips (Sep 21, 2015)

Many thanks Maggie


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## YuviSingh (Apr 29, 2016)

Hi Experts,

I am getting the Visa for 457 that i will be getting in like 20 days will be on 261312 Developer Programmer, done by my employer and i will be travelling to Australia in a month or so.

Whereas my application EOI for 189 is using 261313 Software Engineer 65 points, expecting invite end of this year or start of July. I will be applying for PR once i am in Australia

Both have almost same roles and responsibilities. 
So later when i want to apply for 189 after i get my 457 at the end of this month, will there be an issue due to different occupation codes?

Any idea based on your experience?

Thanks
Syan


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## sai surendra (Feb 6, 2017)

*457 Visa to apply PR*

Hello! Happy to have found this forum! I am a Indian national and Now i am working as a Design specialist in Telstra from last 8 months and i had a experience 3+ years in Indian as well.

I know that a 457 visa holder can apply for permanent residency but can i apply after having worked for 8 Months in Australia? I am wondering, however, whether I could start applying for permanent residency already now, instead of waiting another year. It'd be great if I could get some tips from those of you who know the process! And i completed my Degree (Bs.c's computers) in India.And please let me what are the minimum Requirements need to apply PR.And Also, if any of you have a good migration agent to recommend in Melbourne, please let me know.

My Qualification:

1.Age:25.
2.I completed Bs.c computers in India
3.I had 3+ years Exp in India and 8 months Exp in Australia.

Thanks a lot!

surendra


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## Mania (Sep 7, 2016)

sai surendra said:


> Hello! Happy to have found this forum! I am a Indian national and Now i am working as a Design specialist in Telstra from last 8 months and i had a experience 3+ years in Indian as well.
> 
> I know that a 457 visa holder can apply for permanent residency but can i apply after having worked for 8 Months in Australia? I am wondering, however, whether I could start applying for permanent residency already now, instead of waiting another year. It'd be great if I could get some tips from those of you who know the process! And i completed my Degree (Bs.c's computers) in India.And please let me what are the minimum Requirements need to apply PR.And Also, if any of you have a good migration agent to recommend in Melbourne, please let me know.
> 
> ...


186 & 187 temp transitional stream you need to be working for your employer for 2 years.

186 direct stream you need a positive skills assessment IELTS of 6, 3 years of post qualification experience in the same field as your qualification. This is only available if you have only briefly worked in Australia - I do not know what is counted as breif.

Employer Nomination Scheme (subclass 186)

187 direct stream needs IELTS score of 6 and the qualifications need to be relevant to your occupation. Again you can only have briefly worked in Australia.

https://www.border.gov.au/Trav/Visa-1/187-


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## sai surendra (Feb 6, 2017)

*457 visa to permanent Residency*

Hey Mania,

Thanks for replying! I will say briefly that i am working as a employee in India from last 3+ years as per the client requirement i am working job now in Australia from last 8 months. So am i eligible for apply PR or need to work in Australia for 2 year?And i working here with 475 visa please give me a Good Guidance to apply PR here.And i need to know that when i apply PR any approval needed from MY company?

Regards,
Surendra


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## Angelik (Jun 10, 2014)

Hi Mark, I would like to continue this thread as it relates to my current situation. I hope you can give me some advice. My husband and I are on a 457 visa ( he has been working for this employer for nearly two years). The question is if we could send the application for the 186 visa a bit before the two years ( we were told by a friend that by the time the application gets a case offficer the two years have already been completed). Could you please also let us know what type of documents we need to send with the application ? Thanks in advance


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## Mania (Sep 7, 2016)

Angelik said:


> Hi Mark, I would like to continue this thread as it relates to my current situation. I hope you can give me some advice. My husband and I are on a 457 visa ( he has been working for this employer for nearly two years). The question is if we could send the application for the 186 visa a bit before the two years ( we were told by a friend that by the time the application gets a case offficer the two years have already been completed). Could you please also let us know what type of documents we need to send with the application ? Thanks in advance


Immigration won't like you submitting an application if you are not eligible for it at the time you submit.


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## Mania (Sep 7, 2016)

sai surendra said:


> Hey Mania,
> 
> Thanks for replying! I will say briefly that i am working as a employee in India from last 3+ years as per the client requirement i am working job now in Australia from last 8 months. So am i eligible for apply PR or need to work in Australia for 2 year?And i working here with 475 visa please give me a Good Guidance to apply PR here.And i need to know that when i apply PR any approval needed from MY company?
> 
> ...


Work in Australia.

You will only need your company's approval if the PR visa you are applying for requires them to sponsor you.


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