# Rejected visa application



## ampk (Sep 21, 2013)

Hello All,

As you will notice I am new here and had my girlfriends Visitor Visa to Australia recently rejected. By normal vague reasons.

Any comments or advice welcome.

Our application was I thought good, but got the usual they don't believe she will return home. 

* She is from Ukraine ( not one of the bombshells seen on many dating sites - but a nice honest lady).

* We are of similar age only 1 year different.

* She has a degree and continuous employment of 7 years 4 months.

* Has enough funds in her account to support herself in Australia for a long period.

* We met in Vietnam.

* I meet her and family in Ukraine.

*She has 2 kids - I have 3.

* I can support them for a long period of time & have good employment.

* I have sponsored another person for a 6 month visitor visa and complied with all requirements.


But we still could not get a 6 month visitor visa for them.
3 options I have are.

1) reapply for a visitor visa - but not sure what else could be included.
2) Apply a Prospective Spouse visa - Need to try our relationship further and 9-12 months is to painful. Also about $12K.
3) 457 visa option - again think it will not be good to test waters as a family living and working together- Also about $15K.

Any ideas please.


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## ampk (Sep 21, 2013)

You are welcome to ask questions folks?


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

What were the reasons that they gave you for rejection? I know you mention they had vague ones, was it the normal stronger ties to Australia than home country, limited travel and not enough funds?

Also I might mention that some embassy's will not take into account the financial support of someone else and the applicant must have the money in their account and then of course each embassy might have what they consider "limited personal funds" too.


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

Hi -

Determining the best way to go forward could begin with a careful study of the Genuine Visitor policy at DIAC and looking at each of the criteria and seeing how your girlfriend's situation meets or does not meet the criteria. Once you have a better idea of how close her situation is to what is required in policy, that might provide a better estimate of the chances of any future application.

Of special importance is the text in the decision record document - specifically which of the Genuine Visitor policy elements were used to refuse the visa are important - if these can be addressed by providing more details, etc that's good. If not, that may indicate a challenge for any future applications until her circumstances change.

Hope this helps -

Best,

Mark Northam


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## ampk (Sep 21, 2013)

Thanks Mark.

Was rejected under regulation 600.211 I expect (c)

I had a much worse application from Africa approved for 6 months.

With the exception of the preposed spouse visa, we far meet requirements of Visitor Visa and 457 visa. But only having a short relationship we wanted some together time as a big 5 kid family.

Decisions are made in Moscow by I suspect novice people with lots of power and little regard.

Basically I hate our immigration system - I lived and worked overseas for about 8 years. Just not allowed to bring your girlfriends home to see your country.


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

Hi Ampk -

If they gave you no narrative of the specific reasons why you were refused, I'd ask for it. Reg 600.211(c) is a catch-all for any "relevant matter". 

Re: 457, you may want to look at all the "genuine position" and "genuine intent" policy language introduced 1 July. Given how much subjective control the case officers now have, it is impossible for a person to say they qualify or not before assessment, as "qualifying" is no longer a black & white matter (ie specific requirements) but a very, very subjective one where the opinion of the case officer about the extremely vague word "genuine" can and will make or break a visa application.

Best of luck going forward - if they did not give you specific reasons and parts of the Genuine Visitor policy that you did not meet, it's very hard to figure out how to get beyond that.

Best,

Mark Northam


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## ampk (Sep 21, 2013)

Mish said:


> What were the reasons that they gave you for rejection? I know you mention they had vague ones, was it the normal stronger ties to Australia than home country, limited travel and not enough funds?
> 
> Also I might mention that some embassy's will not take into account the financial support of someone else and the applicant must have the money in their account and then of course each embassy might have what they consider "limited personal funds" too.


Mish, reasons - only half valid was her girls education while here - the other was not strong work commitment (been there 7.4 years and has 3 months paid leave owing) Normal will not return at end of visa - has a share in a apartment there and not considered to be intended purpose of travel.

Yes essentially only other travel was to Vietnam. She has own funds in own account say $20 K no it is not my funds.


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## ampk (Sep 21, 2013)

Is possibly more legally correct for my company the 457 visa option, but as we have only known each other about 10 months. It is not a visa to test the family relationship.

Living and working together is hard for the simplest relationships.


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

Hi Ampk -

I won't argue with that! Best of luck going forward.

Best,

Mark


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## ampk (Sep 21, 2013)

Is there any known information about the "Black Mark" on these rejected applications has for further application's and to other travel destinations?

There are the forms that ask if ever had a visa rejected - mostly just a yes/no box reply!

I think it is very harsh that kids now lodge separate applications and now have black marks against them.


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

Hi Ampk -

Having a refused visa doesn't necessarily mean that future visas will be refused, however DIAC reserves the right to consider past refusals. Clearly any attempt to lie on a form about whether a person has "ever" been refused for a visa, if detected, would be a serious problem that could result in a 3-year ban on applications that use the PIC4020 false information/bogus documents criteria. I've seen cases where the applicant would have had no problems at all had he simply acknowledged the previous refusal on the form. But in an effort to be clever, etc he figured DIAC wouldn't be able to track his previous refusal, so he answered "no" to the question we're discussing here, and his visa was refused on grounds of providing false information to DIAC, creating big problems for future visas.

DIAC retains information for a very long time in their computers about previous applications - it's always best to simply acknowledge any past issues and focus on the current application and how an applicant meets the specific regulations (and policy) for that application. A previous refusal is certainly not the "end of the road" for an applicant, but if they lie about it on a form, it can be.

Best,

Mark Northam


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## ampk (Sep 21, 2013)

Any good Ideas to bolster application on below reasons?

You applied for a Subclass 600 Visitor Visa Tourist Stream on 30 August 2013 to visit your 

friend Mr xxxx Cxxx in Australia. 



After considering the information you have provided as evidence of your purpose in visiting 

Australia, I am not satisfied that you genuinely intend to visit Australia temporarily. 



In assessing whether or not you intend a genuine visit I have taken into account the 

information provided in the application relating to your employment, school-aged children’s 

study arrangements, personal circumstances, previous international travel, commitments, 

incentives to return home, and financial situation. 



I find from the application that you have failed to adequately demonstrate strong employment 

and other commitments that may support the likelihood of your compliance with the 

conditions attached to the visa and your return home at the end of your proposed stay in 

Australia. 



In making this decision, I have taken into account your limited previous international travel. 

While I have given very careful consideration to the purpose of visit and Mr Cxxx ’s 

evidenced support for your visit, I find that the proposed 6 (six) months visit is inconsistent 

with your personal circumstances in Ukraine. 



Individually, these factors may not appear significant. However, on balance, I find that the 

combination of these factors leads me to the conclusion that you do not intend to stay 

temporarily in Australia for the purpose for which the visa is granted.


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

Assuming this was the Moscow embassy, very difficult to get a visitor visa from them these days. Maybe consider reducing the trip to 3 months, and coming up with more evidence about the situation in Ukraine - any sort of financial or other ties that would serve as good reasons for the applicant to return after the visit. Clearly it's the applicant's home situation that is of concern - there just isn't enough evidence to substantiate sufficient reasons or motivations for the applicant to return after a temporary visit.

Best,

Mark Northam


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## ampk (Sep 21, 2013)

Do they ever accept the monetary bond offer?

Other than she has a share of apartment in Ukraine with her parents, like most others there is No other way to satisfy this- other than leaving kid/kids behind.

Is it possible to strongly request this bond?

P.S. have noted what is on the bottom of your posts - cheers.


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

Hi Ampk -

The bond provisions were eliminated some years ago - now for certain visas such as the sponsored family visitor version of the subclass 600 visa there is an Assurance of Support bond that is mandatory in most cases, but I know of no bond provisions for the subclass 600 visitor tourist stream. The fact that all kids are accompanying her is likely working against her as that may be providing a strong reason to stay in Australia (better schools, etc) and lodge an onshore visa of some kind - refugee, partner, etc. The interesting thing is that in cases like this, whereas a visitor visa would normally be refused, if there was already a partner visa lodged (offshore), a visitor visa like this would have a much better chance of being approved.

Best,

Mark Northam


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## ampk (Sep 21, 2013)

I guess it would by a stupid question to ask if Department have an acceptable means of compliance list for reasons/items to return back home.

I work in Aviation and just like CASA all regulations are interpreted as to how it is not possible - never the other way- but always say we are here to help!

On many days as with other parents - It is possibly a greater incentive not to return by leaving kids behind - lol


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

Hi -

If you'd like to email me directly, I can send you a copy of the DIAC Procedure Advice Manual regarding interpreting the genuine visitor requirements - might be helpful as you look at ways to satisfy their requirements. In the end, though, it's not a black & white matter - the case officer's judgement (of the evidence) and conclusions form a large part of the decision-making process. There is no finite list of requirements that must be met, and everything is open to subjective interpretation.

You can find contact info on our website - see link in my signature.

Best,

Mark Northam


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## ampk (Sep 21, 2013)

Thanks Mark,

Its a beer and bbq Sunday with the family today, was hopping next Sunday was with the extra family too.

So will do that tomorrow. Thanks.


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

Have fun! 

Best,

Mark


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## frombelarus (Sep 14, 2013)

Hi ampk, 
My fiancee got her 6 months visitor visa (1 month stay each entry and condition 8503 - no further stay) on 13 sept 2013. 
She is 27, single, no kids, has a job, not a lot in the bank and no assets, I wrote an invitation letter with important dates for us to be here and statutory declaration that I will provide supplementary financial support. She has been to Turkey, UK and Ukraine before. 
We applied online, and thought it will be decided in Australia (as told by immigration helpline) but after 2 weeks, she got a call from Moscow and interviewed for an hour an half and asked about our relationship and many other things. She said our relationship is not yet confirmed. etc..

Her visa officer's name was Olga something.. 

Hope this helps you get some clues


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