# guns and crime



## Neil from Michigan

Curious -
In 1996 Australia's citizens consented to forego their right to own certain types of firearms. I have no idea as to the number and/or type of guns that were surrendered.

We Americans were given the right to be armed by the Constitution and Bill of Rights in order to defend our persons from our Government and, of course, each other. Our liberal and politically-correct Government has allowed certain minorities to commit crimes and then treat them as victims of society. They are coddled in lieu of being appropriately prosecuted. If the crimes of these minorities were not counted, America would have very little violent crime. Unfortunately, our current Government will provide an unending supply of these criminals through its immigration policy.

In a quick look at the robbery statistics for Australia, it appears that robbery has increased somewhat dramatically since 1996. Is that true? Would one draw the conclusion that the bad guys now are counting on their victims being unable to defend themselves?


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## JandE

Neil from Michigan said:


> Curious -
> In 1996 Australia's citizens consented to forego their right to own certain types of firearms. I have no idea as to the number and/or type of guns that were surrendered.
> 
> We Americans were given the right to be armed by the Constitution and Bill of Rights in order to defend our persons from our Government and, of course, each other. Our liberal and politically-correct Government has allowed certain minorities to commit crimes and then treat them as victims of society. They are coddled in lieu of being appropriately prosecuted. If the crimes of these minorities were not counted, America would have very little violent crime. Unfortunately, our current Government will provide an unending supply of these criminals through its immigration policy.
> 
> In a quick look at the robbery statistics for Australia, it appears that robbery has increased somewhat dramatically since 1996. Is that true? Would one draw the conclusion that the bad guys now are counting on their victims being unable to defend themselves?


In 1996, the Port Arthur massacre was a killing spree in which 35 people were killed and 23 wounded.

Gun control was brought in to try to stop that type of thing happening.
Australia destroyed 700,000 privately owned firearms.

After 112 people were shot dead in 11 mass shootings in a decade, Australia collected and destroyed categories of firearms designed to kill many people quickly.

From 1996 to 2003, the total number of gun deaths each year fell from 521 to 289.

Homicide rates in Australia are only 1.2 per 100,000 people, with less than 15% of these resulting from firearms.

Homicide rate in the United States is 5.0 per 100,000 people, with most homicides involving firearms.

It seems to have worked for Australia.

Does the US still have many gun massacres ?


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## Verystormy

Robberies rise with declining economic times - if you look at this Australian Institute of Criminology - Robbery statistics you will see a big rise around 2001. This corresponds to a major economic downturn. The current spike can also be attributed to it.

Americans carry weapons on the basis of a piece of paper written hundreds of years ago, that should have been put in the dust bin many years ago. The country is no resemblance to what it was when it was written.

Are you aware that there is a mass shooting in the USA every day? 1,052 mass shootings in 1,066 days: this is what America's gun crisis looks like | US news | The Guardian

Are you aware that on the sad day of the recent mass shooting, there would be another 88 people die from guns?

"to defend our persons from our Government".... anyone so deluded as to think like this should not be allowed any where near a firearm.

Americans often get annoyed when the rest of the world thinks of them as stupid. Yet time and again they prove it is the case. If you had a child that put its hand in the fire and got badly burned you would be worried. If the same child then repeated it time and again, you would think it had a disorder.


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## JandE

Neil from Michigan said:


> In a quick look at the robbery statistics for Australia, it appears that robbery has increased somewhat dramatically since 1996. Is that true? Would one draw the conclusion that the bad guys now are counting on their victims being unable to defend themselves?


Gun Control had only a small effect on overall Robbery statistics, but it was aimed at stopping massacres, not robbery. Something did eventually trim armed robbery though.

Robbery with Firearm Statistics:
1995 1,460 
1996 1,585 
1997 2,185 
1998 1,910 
1999 1,438 
2000 1,325 
2001 1,704 
2002 1,178 
2003 1,102 
2004 913 
2005 758 
2006 1,202 
2007 1,154 
2008 1,047 
2009 1,081 
2010 1,035 
2011 990 
2012 1,091


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## Neil from Michigan

Thanks for the response(s) & opinion(s)-
It surprises me that a freedom-loving country would so easily give up the right of self defense. Without arms a person or nation is defenseless. I believe that without arms, the biggest man will simply take from the smaller. In WWII, the US sent thousands of sporting rifles to England's citizens in preparation for an invasion as the citizens had been relieved of their arms. 
As for the defense from the actions of our Government, it worked well in 1776 and, should things continue, it might happen again. I believe there have been several instances where the people removed the foot of government from their neck.
A couple of things to consider- "Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who do not" and As we say in Texas "Sam Houston made us free and Sam Colt made us equal".

I will leave this issue now and, again, thanks for your candid discussion.


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## JandE

Neil from Michigan said:


> We Americans were given the right to be armed by the Constitution and Bill of Rights in order to defend our persons from our Government and, of course, each other.


Some countries don't seem to have the same level of problems as the US appears to from this.

UK Firearm Statistics

In 2008-09 firearms were involved in 0.3% or 1 in every 330 crimes recorded by police in England and Wales.
There were 39 fatal injuries from crimes involving firearms in 2008-09.

Compare the result of strict UK gun laws to the US...

2013 a total of 33,169 deaths related to firearms in the US.

2013 firearm-related death rate for every 100,000 inhabitants.

10.64 United States
0.86 Australia
0.26 UK

Some people prefer to be free 



Neil from Michigan said:


> "Sam Houston made us free and Sam Colt made us equal".


If no one has guns then we are all equal, and much safer, it would seem.


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## Aussie83

Hi Neil If you ever pop back or anyone else who happens to stumble over here.
just for my 2 cents, i'm not sure where to look for US stats, but i've always been curious with the gun issue how the defence is we have the right to defend ourselves and so need the right to bear arms.
2 stats I wouldn't mind seeing is the percentage of shootings that are considered genuine defensive shootings.
also the percentage of infant shootings. you then hear people say in defence of toddlers getting their hands on guns but i'm responsible I keep the guns locked up. but then how does that assist you in your defence?
I can't articulate things the best and i'm not trying to convince anyone as people have their own views and can be very difficult to change. but open dialogue can work and if nothing else give each other something to think on.
possibly the best way to sum up our views is if you google a comedian called Jim Jefferies. Yes he is a comedian it goes for 8 minutes but watch it with a open mind.
personally I'm not 100% against guns. I come from a rural background so to me they are a tool.
Do I think Australia should relax its gun control laws? absolutely not. a bit more tightening wouldn't hurt such as the loop hole that allows for the semi-auto shotguns. there is no need for them


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## MarcellusF

Neil from Michigan said:


> Curious -
> In 1996 Australia's citizens consented to forego their right to own certain types of firearms. I have no idea as to the number and/or type of guns that were surrendered.
> 
> We Americans were given the right to be armed by the Constitution and Bill of Rights in order to defend our persons from our Government and, of course, each other. Our liberal and politically-correct Government has allowed certain minorities to commit crimes and then treat them as victims of society. They are coddled in lieu of being appropriately prosecuted. If the crimes of these minorities were not counted, America would have very little violent crime. Unfortunately, our current Government will provide an unending supply of these criminals through its immigration policy.
> 
> In a quick look at the robbery statistics for Australia, it appears that robbery has increased somewhat dramatically since 1996. Is that true? Would one draw the conclusion that the bad guys now are counting on their victims being unable to defend themselves?


Sandyhook
Orlando Pulse Nightclub

That is all.


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## Lorraine0101

Really helpful..


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## MarcellusF

Lorraine0101 said:


> Really helpful..


Yes, I think that it is helpful to highlight only 2 of the many occasions when military grade tactical weapons (AR-15 for example) were used by civilians to massacre innocent Americans. Especially when someone questions why Australians "gave up their rights" and handed in their semi-automatic weapons...


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## JandE

Just to clarify:

After the Australian Port Arthur Massacre, the government banned the sale of automatic and semi-automatic weapons in Australia.

There is NOT an outright ban on guns.

Just a ban on the automatic and semi-automatic weapons that are used in massacres etc.

Australians still have the right to still own guns responsibly, just not those that kill many people quickly.

Australia, with its 23 million people apparently has about 3 million guns in private ownership. But not automatic and semi-automatic such as the AK47 etc.

In the US ?


> _in 2013 there would have been roughly 357 million firearms in the U.S. - 40 million more guns than people (318 million population).
> Gun Sales -- National Review Online_http://www.nationalreview.com/corne...ber-are-owned-all-australia-charles-c-w-cooke


There is no need for AK47's for personal protection....


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## neoleo

America has become less safe place to live with many death caused by guns ...

Too much guns will definitely increase death victims.


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## MaryMar

Neil from Michigan said:


> Curious -
> In 1996 Australia's citizens consented to forego their right to own certain types of firearms. I have no idea as to the number and/or type of guns that were surrendered.
> 
> We Americans were given the right to be armed by the Constitution and Bill of Rights in order to defend our persons from our Government and, of course, each other. Our liberal and politically-correct Government has allowed certain minorities to commit crimes and then treat them as victims of society. They are coddled in lieu of being appropriately prosecuted. If the crimes of these minorities were not counted, America would have very little violent crime. Unfortunately, our current Government will provide an unending supply of these criminals through its immigration policy.
> 
> In a quick look at the robbery statistics for Australia, it appears that robbery has increased somewhat dramatically since 1996. Is that true? Would one draw the conclusion that the bad guys now are counting on their victims being unable to defend themselves?


Personaly I would not want to reside in any country where you possess and deem it neccessary to carry a firearm. Its based on red coats days, surely even US citizens can recognise the death toll from within and the constant mass shootings there. Sorry you dont have the right to go to Wallmart eith a gun, you have police and security to address them concerns.


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## tijanaoc

As someone who lived most of my life in Australia and thought Americans were nuts wanting the right to bear arms, and then I went and lived in the US and saw the other side of the coin, I am a total supporter of the second amendment.

This is a really on point article that explains things well.


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