# Boat People - Will they affect our visa processing both on / offshore ??



## Zamaussie (Jan 16, 2012)

Hello everyone, Am just wondering whether all those people that have arrived under the banner of "Asylum seekers" have any significant effect on the processing of our visas?


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## samfisher (Mar 5, 2013)

Zamaussie said:


> Hello everyone, Am just wondering whether all those people that have arrived under the banner of "Asylum seekers" have any significant effect on the processing of our visas?


but you are from zambia. and you yourself have to come by boat to Australia as an Asylum seeker. Why are you complaining about Asylum seekers?


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## Zamaussie (Jan 16, 2012)

Samfisher Let me educate you !!!!!!!!!!...Zambia has NEVER NEVER had any civil war or conflict ever since we kicked out the colonial government therefore there is no Zambian here or abroad that has traveled to any country as an "Asylum seeker" (go and look up the definition of asylum seeker.) Myself included i came here via the proper channel.
Secondly, I was not "COMPLAINING" but trying to find out what ,if any the effects of people coming in through other illegal means.


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## samfisher (Mar 5, 2013)

Zamaussie said:


> Myself included i came here via the proper channel.
> .


You didn't get the sarcasm in my post?


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

Zamaussie said:


> Hello everyone, Am just wondering whether all those people that have arrived under the banner of "Asylum seekers" have any significant effect on the processing of our visas?


To my knowledge yes it will affect the processing times for our visas. Asylum seekers get first priority and that is also for the ASIO checks too.


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## Zamaussie (Jan 16, 2012)

samfisher said:


> You didn't get the sarcasm in my post?


LOL...I did


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## nadam (Jan 8, 2013)

I'm sure it was innocuous by you, but can we please avoid referring to them as "boat people"? They're refugees, plain and simple.


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## samfisher (Mar 5, 2013)

Zamaussie said:


> Samfisher Let me educate you !!!!!!!!!!...Zambia has NEVER NEVER had any civil war or conflict ever since we kicked out the colonial government therefore there is no Zambian here or abroad that has traveled to any country as an "Asylum seeker" (go and look up the definition of asylum seeker.) Myself included i came here via the proper channel.
> Secondly, I was not "COMPLAINING" but trying to find out what ,if any the effects of people coming in through other illegal means.





Mish said:


> To my knowledge yes it will affect the processing times for our visas. Asylum seekers get first priority and that is also for the ASIO checks too.


so there are thousands of Asylum seekers. They all get priority over the visa applications lodged in the Australian embassies in Australia and overseas?


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## samfisher (Mar 5, 2013)

nadam said:


> I'm sure it was innocuous by you, but can we please avoid referring to them as "boat people"? They're refugees, plain and simple.


OP is from zambia and is an immigrant and he is referring the asylum seekers as boat people. #gofigure.


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## CollegeGirl (Nov 10, 2012)

I don't particularly like the term "boat people," either. =\ 

Honestly, yes, I do think they should take priority. My physical safety is not threatened on a daily basis because of war in my country or because I am of a religion or a sexual orientation my government doesn't agree with. I absolutely feel people who cannot live their lives in relative physical safety on a daily basis should take priority.


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## Zamaussie (Jan 16, 2012)

Sorry Everyone for using that word, But i was just trying to find something to attract readers on the forum ......I Apologize ! 

And thanks to all your replies


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## samfisher (Mar 5, 2013)

Zamaussie said:


> Sorry Everyone for using that word, But i was just trying to find something to attract readers on the forum ......I Apologize !
> 
> And thanks to all your replies


Attract readers to the forum by using emotive words such as "boat people".

I see that you have become a true blue aussie and assimilated well.


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## Zamaussie (Jan 16, 2012)

samfisher said:


> Attract readers to the forum by using emotive words such as "boat people".
> 
> I see that you have become a true blue aussie and assimilated well.


Thats the way to go mate !


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## kmarees1986 (Apr 23, 2012)

CollegeGirl said:


> I don't particularly like the term "boat people," either. =\
> 
> Honestly, yes, I do think they should take priority. My physical safety is not threatened on a daily basis because of war in my country or because I am of a religion or a sexual orientation my government doesn't agree with. I absolutely feel people who cannot live their lives in relative physical safety on a daily basis should take priority.


I disagree. Don't get me wrong I agree that the safety and wellbeing of these people is imparative and i'm proud that Australia is a place where these people take refuge, but the people arriving by boats are being conned and not going about immigrating or asylum seeking in the correct manner. It's people smuggling and they pay a ridiculous amount to smugglers promising fields of gold on the other side. I'm sorry but most of them don't get priority (nor do I believe they should). It takes years for people who arrive that need to be detained to be processed. I dont like the treatment thats been reported in relation to the detention centres, but arriving in this manner must be stopped.


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## CollegeGirl (Nov 10, 2012)

When people's physical safety isn't in danger, I agree with you. 

But when it is? If there's gunfire outside your door and there's nowhere safe to go, are you going to wait around for months hoping another country will take you in or do what it takes to save your own life and the lives of your children? I don't know... I just think it's not black and white.


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## kmarees1986 (Apr 23, 2012)

CollegeGirl said:


> When people's physical safety isn't in danger, I agree with you.
> 
> But when it is? If there's gunfire outside your door and there's nowhere safe to go, are you going to wait around for months hoping another country will take you in or do what it takes to save your own life and the lives of your children? I don't know... I just think it's not black and white.


Sure you're right it's not black and white but people smuggling is becoming a dangerous industry. These people are being tricked and Australia is not currently properly equipt to handle all the boats arriving. I am totally against people arriving by boat and hope that in the future there is a better/different way for refugees to find a safe home.

Its such a risk for everyone including those who get on the boat. After your read about a few of the boats that sink with all the people and children on board dying - and then you think of the greedy smugglers that capitalised on their dire situations for financial gain its just a sick sad process. Then theres the risk to Australia that people may make it to shore successfully. Even though these are people facing hardships they havent gone through the character assessments we have to go through. It could only take one person who could bring a new health or safety threat to Australia. This is where I want my children to grow up, I can't be supportive of this method of asylum.


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## GBP (Jun 1, 2013)

Many asylum seekers actually fly to Indonesia and pay a large amount of money to get on a boat from there to travel to Australia. I don't believe someone would take a boat all the way from Afghanistan (landlocked) or Iran to Australia.

It is more of an issue of people trafficking than an issue of asylum seeker, IMO.


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## Nunu (Dec 30, 2011)

CollegeGirl said:


> When people's physical safety isn't in danger, I agree with you.
> 
> But when it is? If there's gunfire outside your door and there's nowhere safe to go, are you going to wait around for months hoping another country will take you in or do what it takes to save your own life and the lives of your children? I don't know... I just think it's not black and white.


I agree with you collegegirl.
My mother and I came to Australia on a humanitarian visa 17 years ago. We were in a safe country (Turkey) waiting for our visa to be issued (8 months) - but if we were in Iraq we would have hopped on a boat in a flash. Like collegegirl said its not all black and white and I'm not bothered if refugees or asylum seekers are processed before my husband. But I guess my opinion is skewed due to the fact that I have seen the 'other side'


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## kmarees1986 (Apr 23, 2012)

GBP said:


> Many asylum seekers actually fly to Indonesia and pay a large amount of money to get on a boat from there to travel to Australia. I don't believe someone would take a boat all the way from Afghanistan (landlocked) or Iran to Australia.
> 
> It is more of an issue of people trafficking than an issue of asylum seeker, IMO.


Spot on. People smuggling is the problem.


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## CollegeGirl (Nov 10, 2012)

So let's blame the smugglers and stop THEM, not blame the people seeking refuge from violence...


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## kmarees1986 (Apr 23, 2012)

I dont feel I was blaming the people needing asylum...


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## CollegeGirl (Nov 10, 2012)

I wasn't speaking about what you'd said kamarees. I think you've been pretty thoughtful and careful not to place the blame where it doesn't belong. But I do think there's a lot of anti-immigrant bias in Australia right now and a lot of it gets taken out on these desperate people who want nothing more than to live somewhere where they're not in fear for their lives.


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## kmarees1986 (Apr 23, 2012)

CollegeGirl said:


> I wasn't speaking about what you'd said kamarees. I think you've been pretty thoughtful and careful not to place the blame where it doesn't belong. But I do think there's a lot of anti-immigrant bias in Australia right now and a lot of it gets taken out on these desperate people who want nothing more than to live somewhere where they're not in fear for their lives.


That is very true and alot of it lies in the way our media presents the information. There is a general lack of understanding across the board and until people understand immigration as a whole rather than viewing these people as queue jumpers, the attitude won't change!

I just really feel by making arriving on boats easy and acceptable it encourages this terrible industry of smuggling. I wish there was a better way for people to seek refuge here.


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## rhirhi (Apr 14, 2013)

kmarees1986 said:


> I disagree. Don't get me wrong I agree that the safety and wellbeing of these people is imparative and i'm proud that Australia is a place where these people take refuge, but the people arriving by boats are being conned and not going about immigrating or asylum seeking in the correct manner. It's people smuggling and they pay a ridiculous amount to smugglers promising fields of gold on the other side. I'm sorry but most of them don't get priority (nor do I believe they should). It takes years for people who arrive that need to be detained to be processed. I dont like the treatment thats been reported in relation to the detention centres, but arriving in this manner must be stopped.


Spot on kamarees


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## Rigs (Jun 29, 2013)

rhirhi said:


> Spot on kamarees


To me they are not boat people or asylum seekers they are plain illegal immigrants. The majority of hem this week are from Vietnam


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## tigerstu (Apr 9, 2013)

Rigs said:


> To me they are not boat people or asylum seekers they are plain illegal immigrants. The majority of hem this week are from Vietnam


A very ignorant and incorrect statement. How are they illegal? Claiming asylum in Australia is not illegal, no matter how you arrive in Australia. The majority from Vietnam? Really? Where did you read this? Way off the mark. Maybe about 30 years ago.


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## Rigs (Jun 29, 2013)

tigerstu said:


> A very ignorant and incorrect statement. How are they illegal? Claiming asylum in Australia is not illegal, no matter how you arrive in Australia. The majority from Vietnam? Really? Where did you read this? Way off the mark. Maybe about 30 years ago.


You need to catch up with the news. Not ignorant is fact


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## Rigs (Jun 29, 2013)

Rigs said:


> You need to catch up with the news. Not ignorant is fact


Vietnamese asylum boats at 20-year high
BY:NICOLAS PERPITCH From: The Australian July 16, 2013 12:00AM
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THE 84 Vietnamese asylum-seekers on a vessel stopped just north of Broome this week are part of the largest influx of people arriving from the communist country by boat in almost two decades

On current trends, this year will see the greatest number of Vietnamese boat arrivals on record; surpassing the 868 asylum-seekers who arrived in 1977, two years after the fall of the South Vietnamese regime.


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## Rigs (Jun 29, 2013)

Rigs said:


> Vietnamese asylum boats at 20-year high
> BY:NICOLAS PERPITCH From: The Australian July 16, 2013 12:00AM
> Increase Text Size
> Decrease Text Size
> ...


Off the mark !,


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## tigerstu (Apr 9, 2013)

I see you wouldn't like to refute your initial comment about illegal immigrants?

What does it even matter where they are from? Do you dislike some people differently compared to where they are from?

Sorry, I mis-read you statement... sure, maybe THIS week the majority are from Vietnam. But what is your point by stating this.

I apologise for my abruptness, but I despise the ever increasing ignorance and intolerance that is being developed and fostered in our society by the media, politicians and other people on immigration.


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## Rigs (Jun 29, 2013)

tigerstu said:


> I see you wouldn't like to refute your initial comment about illegal immigrants?
> 
> What does it even matter where they are from? Do you dislike some people differently compared to where they are from?
> 
> ...


If they want to co here I have no issue but do it the right way. They have the money to pay the smugglers so they have the money to apply like everyone else. They are doing it illegally


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## tigerstu (Apr 9, 2013)

Whatever.

I'm not going to argue or discuss.

Good luck and I hope you don't ever find yourself in a situation like that.

Have fun watching Channel 9 news and Today Tonight!!


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## chicken999 (May 2, 2013)

I have a client who works at diac and he flies back and forth from Brisbane to Christmas Island so I have heard the inside story straight from the horses mouth. Although there is always a certain percentage of genuine refugees amongst these people who arrive In our waters by boat the majority are not. And I resent the hell out of every single one of these queue jumping passport throwing away illegal immigrants who are slowing down my processing times and my security checks. The truth is the majority of these people have paid 10k each to get on the boat rather than wait for years in the queue or who have no hope of getting in the queue as they have no skills. I've lived in Malaysia and Cambodia and worked for free at NGOs for years so don't accuse me of having no sympathy for the genuine refugees. I know plenty f people who have jumped on the boat from Malaysia and not one of them were genuine they freely admitted they simply wanted a better life and didn't want to wait for normal processing times. I could have paid 10k myself for my man and he could have been here years ago but we chose to do the right thing. The more boats they let stay the more that will come. It's time to take a hard line with the fakes and make it easier for genuine refugees to be processed in a legal manner. There lies the real problem. It's simply too hard to do it genuinely so just jump on a boat.


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## rhirhi (Apr 14, 2013)

My mothers partners daughter is a case worker for asylum seekers on Christmas Island. She told me many (of course not all) of the asylum seekers actually are quite well off but heard by word if mouth of the benefits Australians receive without working and how easy it is to get into Australia as a 'refugee.' She told me they often go on 'hunger strikes' and destroy things in the camp to have their demands met and seem to know very well what they could be entitled too should they succeed. 
Now, I know there are absolutely genuine refugees and they need our help. I'm proud were in a position to help them and I think it's a great thing but many people who are not genuine are being smuggled in and they are not 'refugees'. I think it's sad for the real refugees. Like Kamarees said more than anything the people smugglers are the problem....the people they bring have to pay large sums of money to get aboard their boat an many of them are quite well off. It offends me that they come to our country, dictate to us about how fast they will be processed and what they will receive if they succeeded. These people are making it so much harder for truly desperate people and are taking advantage of australian tax payers. Not only is that an issue but also the extremely dangerous trip that I think many of the people buying places on boats are unaware of. In my opinion, people smugglers should be held accountable for this and face heavy charges. 
Its not fair that some people 'jump the line' because they don't want to wait or think they will receive more benefits under a humanitarian visa. I think more work needs to be done to stop people arriving on boats and start getting people to apply the right way.


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## GBP (Jun 1, 2013)

If one can afford to leave their original country and then subsequently pay a handsome amount to be on board a boat to come into Australian water, I think they are just taking the shortcut. 

I know the situation in their home country is very hostile and challenging, but that doesn't mean they can jump the queue by doing this. It is also unfair to their own people that are unable to leave the country due to lack of resources. I think those left behind have a stronger case as in seeking refuge than those that came in in boats.

And, please tell me, does it mean if someone came in boat, they are automatically refugee? If this is the case and become a norm, then we might see more boats coming in, which means, more tragedy (e.g. boat sinking in high sea, riot in the detention centre etc) waiting to happen. Do you still think it is a good idea? 

It is actually a lose-lose situation for everyone, except the people smugglers that are laughing all the way to the bank.


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## Rigs (Jun 29, 2013)

chicken999 said:


> I have a client who works at diac and he flies back and forth from Brisbane to Christmas Island so I have heard the inside story straight from the horses mouth. Although there is always a certain percentage of genuine refugees amongst these people who arrive In our waters by boat the majority are not. And I resent the hell out of every single one of these queue jumping passport throwing away illegal immigrants who are slowing down my processing times and my security checks. The truth is the majority of these people have paid 10k each to get on the boat rather than wait for years in the queue or who have no hope of getting in the queue as they have no skills. I've lived in Malaysia and Cambodia and worked for free at NGOs for years so don't accuse me of having no sympathy for the genuine refugees. I know plenty f people who have jumped on the boat from Malaysia and not one of them were genuine they freely admitted they simply wanted a better life and didn't want to wait for normal processing times. I could have paid 10k myself for my man and he could have been here years ago but we chose to do the right thing. The more boats they let stay the more that will come. It's time to take a hard line with the fakes and make it easier for genuine refugees to be processed in a legal manner. There lies the real problem. It's simply too hard to do it genuinely so just jump on a boat.


Chicken 999 I love u


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## kmarees1986 (Apr 23, 2012)

Another sad sight on the news this morning. 144 people rescued from a capsized boat off Christmas Island. Another 4 people dead. Another 2 people missing.


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## Theoilman (Mar 17, 2013)

Rigs said:


> If they want to co here I have no issue but do it the right way. They have the money to pay the smugglers so they have the money to apply like everyone else. They are doing it illegally


persecution has no relation to how much money you have. you can be rich but part of a group that a large number of people in your country, maybe even your government, want to arrest or kill based on your demographic. if they have more money that in fact suggests they are less likely to be economic migrants. many asylum seekers resort people smugglers because they are threatened with violence in their home country and would be killed or thrown in prison for their beliefs if they took the time to send in an application that would take at least 6 months and possibly well over a year.

people smuggling is a bad thing, but to stop it there needs to be a way for people to apply for asylum without the fear of being killed or jailed during the waiting time.


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## Oldgit (Jul 15, 2013)

I am always amazed at the number of people who 'know someone' who is on the inside of these immigration detention centers who always aver that 90% of them are economic refugees but that when you look at the final figures after all the proper processing procedures have been done you find that actually 90% of those presenting are given refugee status.


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## rhirhi (Apr 14, 2013)

Oldgit said:


> I am always amazed at the number of people who 'know someone' who is on the inside of these immigration detention centers who always aver that 90% of them are economic refugees but that when you look at the final figures after all the proper processing procedures have been done you find that actually 90% of those presenting are given refugee status.


Are you trying to imply I'm a liar?

I'm only writing what I was honestly told. I don't believe they are all 'economic refugees'....if you read my comment above, I believe the people smugglers are the main issue and that they are making things harder for refugees. They are not interested in your welfare, they simply make promises of a better life and leave out the great risk to people's lives in order to make money. This is the problem.


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## Papi (Apr 29, 2013)

The first fleet were "boat people".


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## chicken999 (May 2, 2013)

The fact that 90% of boat people are granted visas does not mean they are a genuine refugee. Hat it means is that they have thrown away their Id and have a good cover story. Diac does checks on them but how can they prove or disprove their stories when they come from countries that don't have electronic records like us, so no way to check records or fingerprints. So consequently they can't be disproved so they are allowed to stay.


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## chicken999 (May 2, 2013)

I work for a law firm and I have a number of diac Brisbane workers who are my conveyancing clients so don't be calling me a liar either. These are facts from people who work directly with these lying rich queue jumpers


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## davistev (Jul 17, 2013)

Yes - It will affect the amount of refugees australia sponsors in from the UNHCR refugee camps from around the world. To date, no application from these camps will be looked at for the next three years as the people who bought their tickets in Jakarta and jumped on the boats are getting the visa quotas.


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## Whitney (Jan 4, 2013)

There are so many strong opinions about this... but where's the answer? I've spent a lot of time thinking and I have nothing. I'd love to hear ideas about a solution that accounts for border protection and human rights. This is a genuine request. How can we fix the system?


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## rhirhi (Apr 14, 2013)

Papi said:


> The first fleet were "boat people".


I resent that comment. The first fleet people were FORCED to Australia on boats and treated as slaves for a minimum of a further 7 years....a detention camp would of been heaven for them.


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## rayromano (Jul 17, 2013)

This might be a long shot but call me the next Tony Abbott you see..
I would love for this whole refugee arrivals on boat be stopped completely. 
It is getting too dangerous and expensive for Australia and for the refugees and economic migrants travelling on those weak boats.

What Australia should do is to set up centres from where we have been receiving refugees and economic migrants for the past few years. The government has to then set up talks with these country officials and COME TO A DECISION. I know it is hard, but hell, THERE IS NO CONCRETE DECISION BEING TAKEN .
And the further we keep pushing this , Theres going to be more economic migrants taking advantage of this and the real refugees would lose their ability to flee their country and get to Australia for a safe haven. 
The people smugglers will do their business as usual and as a strong government and a developed country at that, Australia should be unanimous in dealing with this situation as soon as possible. I know there is a lot of complications . But its not that bad where we are taking YEARS to solve the issue. 
Thats not good governance. I wish this would end up a WIN WIN situation for everyone involved, excluding the economic illegal migrants and the people smugglers, because they're the ones abusing the system.


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## kmarees1986 (Apr 23, 2012)

Whitney said:


> There are so many strong opinions about this... but where's the answer? I've spent a lot of time thinking and I have nothing. I'd love to hear ideas about a solution that accounts for border protection and human rights. This is a genuine request. How can we fix the system?


Good question and I have some thoughts!

Work closely with countries (i.e Indonesia) where people smugglers are rife to increase penalties for those caught as well as task force type police teams policing them.

A national hotline for Australia and these countries where people can "dob in a smuggler" similar to what we have here where you can dob in an illegal immigrant.

Create more places in the humanitarian visa program. Currently there are only a few hundred of these visa's granted per year...

Working in the countries where the asylum seekers arrive from by boat to educate on the risks of getting on the boat, and the result at the other end - i.e. years in detention. Maybe even assist those interested in applying for visa's the right way. A dangerous job in many places I am sure, it's just a suggestion.

Just to name a few...


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## Oldgit (Jul 15, 2013)

rhirhi said:


> Are you trying to imply I'm a liar?
> 
> I'm only writing what I was honestly told. I don't believe they are all 'economic refugees'....if you read my comment above, I believe the people smugglers are the main issue and that they are making things harder for refugees. They are not interested in your welfare, they simply make promises of a better life and leave out the great risk to people's lives in order to make money. This is the problem.


No I'm not saying you are a liar you may know someone on the inside in your instance but I'm sure some of the statements are on the level of my mate down the club said he'd heard from someone somewhere else,these assertions seem to always be made when refugees are mentioned and the assertions don't tally with the official figures.
I agree that the people smugglers are making profits from putting people in danger but its an exercise of the free market in meeting market demand from people with available cash.
I think that it would be interesting to establish where the money comes from and often it is from selling every possession people have to try what they know is a very risky enterprise out of desperation.
This seems to be borne out by the fact that when they get into society here they are pretty well destitute if you look at the numbers dependent on charity for survival.


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## davistev (Jul 17, 2013)

My idea is built along the premise that the world is not a nice place and to open our borders is stupidity. 

First - Place the responsibility on the claimant to provide evidence of persecution to be able to claim refugee status. As the USA does at its Land Border crossings.

Second - Require all maritime arrivals to be pre-cleared just like aircraft. All passengers must have Visas.

Third - staff the Refugee Tribunual with enough people as to make a decision within 48 hours if appealed. This is fair to the person making the claim.

Third - Start a scheduled flight between Christmas Island and Jakarta - Karachi - Kabul - Tehran. Drop off the refused applicants and pick up visa holders who have applied for a visa via Immigration channels. 

Fourth - Deduct the cost of "rescue" operations Australia conducts within Indonesian waters from the AID budgetof $646m that Australian taxpayers give to indonesia.

Fifth - Create a Family reunification Visa that is available to all Australians and PR so that family members currently in Australia do not have to jump on the boats. Make the application fees lower than the cost of a Jakarta-Xmas is ferry ticket. 

Sixth - If a Refugee claimant has passed through a safe country on their way to Australia - This should negate their claim for refugee status unless unusual circumstances prevail.

Seventh - Remove access to HELP-FEES for refugee claimants. Currently an economic refugee can access fee deferral but an Australian Permanent Resident cannot. It is cheaper to buy a Jakarta-Xmas Island ferry ticket than to pay International Fees at Australian Universities.


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## eleanor (Apr 27, 2013)

Rigs said:


> If they want to co here I have no issue but do it the right way. They have the money to pay the smugglers so they have the money to apply like everyone else. They are doing it illegally


spot on rigs,some are just boat people,and are jumping the que,and that is making it a lot harder for my fiance to migrate the correct way, if they can pay the people smugglers can some one on here tell me just why,why ,cant they pay and come the rite way like every one else,lets see if you can convince me,


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## aussieinarg (Jan 18, 2012)

This is a touchy issue, but here is my take on it. I want to highlight that I am compassionate to the needs of genuine refugees and actually think we should increase our annual intake of genuine refugees (but from UN camps). 

Firstly, we are signatories to the UN conventions which means we have to accept "genuine refugees" that arrive on our shores. There really is no such thing as illegal refugees. Now, I know the figures are 90% of those that arrive are allegedly genuine but I think there are many more economic migrants amongst that 90%:
- many arrive without ID documentation of which many deliberately throw it away (if so, how did they pass so many countries on the way through to Indonesia given most come from Afghanistan, Iraq, including often boarding planes) either by their own accord or the demand of the people smugglers/captains making it very difficult and costly to assess them
- they are given free access to legal advice and therefore often "coached" on what to say and how to get it 
- the benefit of the doubt in the decision always goes to the "refugee"

I actually think its flawed the UN Convention, firstly most refugees gain status by entering across land, but to get to Australia they need to arrive via the people smuggling boats which is very dangerous and a risk to all on board.

Another is its unfair those with money or with access to it can have immediate access to be granted status, while others that dont have the luxury and/or do not want to pay an illegal operations thousands of dollars and/or put themselves and families in jeopardy are stuck for years in UN camps, hoping to be so lucky. 

Lastly, why do they pass so many safe countries on the way through? Seeking asylum should in principle be about getting to the closest safe country where your life is in danger. In my opinion, once they pass through these other safe countries they should not be considered genuine refugees any more. 

Like I said, I am all for increasing our refugee intake (through the UN camps where refugees have an equal opportunity) but am 100% against those paying people smugglers and arriving by boats, unless that is the only option and they have not passed through other safe countries.


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## eleanor (Apr 27, 2013)

as i was growing up i always thought that if people wanted to migrate to australia then they could,but i have since found out they cant just do that,you need a visa,and they are hard to get,so if there is no visa to suit you then you have no hope,am i correct there,lets say i am a 40 year old male from some where and i dont know any one here or have no family here then i have no hope ,unless i say i am a refuegee ,am i correct here,no visa would suit me.


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

If people have not heard KRudd has made a change in the asylum seeker policy. The short version is that they will be sent to PNG for processing and he also said "Any asylum-seeker will have no chance of being resettled in Australia"

News article here: Kevin Rudd announces asylum seeker policy as boat detected near West Australian oil platform | News.com.au


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## kmarees1986 (Apr 23, 2012)

Mish said:


> If people have not heard KRudd has made a change in the asylum seeker policy. The short version is that they will be sent to PNG for processing and he also said "Any asylum-seeker will have no chance of being resettled in Australia"
> 
> News article here: Kevin Rudd announces asylum seeker policy as boat detected near West Australian oil platform | News.com.au





> "Australia stands ready to progressively increase its intake through the humanitarian program,"


Great place to start! So people arriving by boat will not be allowed to resettle in Australia but the humanitarian visa program will increase the intake so people can apply through the correct channels. I almost would vote for Rudd based on that!


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## rhirhi (Apr 14, 2013)

kmarees1986 said:


> Great place to start! So people arriving by boat will not be allowed to resettle in Australia but the humanitarian visa program will increase the intake so people can apply through the correct channels. I almost would vote for Rudd based on that!


I think that's great too and I'm generally not a labor supporter. If only they had the money side of things under control. Very good to see something positive like this coming out of labor though


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## eleanor (Apr 27, 2013)

the greens dont like it,but then again do they like any thing.


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## iduno (Jan 24, 2013)

k rudd is full of BS, manus island will only be expanded to hold 3000 , where do the other 77000 that are expected this year going to go


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## eleanor (Apr 27, 2013)

kmarees1986 said:


> Great place to start! So people arriving by boat will not be allowed to resettle in Australia but the humanitarian visa program will increase the intake so people can apply through the correct channels. I almost would vote for Rudd based on that!


well i would vote for any polly that will stand up and make some changes to partner migration,its just to bloody hard in some cases, for instance if you are an australian born citerson and you want to bring your overseas partner,girlfriend,wife what ever it should be much simpler, like in australia you can get a divorce over the phone now ,my brother did about 8 years ago never even had to go to court,but try and bring your philippino married girl friend here and see what happens, they know its so hard and time consuming,and expensive yet they make you go through that process ,you have to spend lots of money on the anaulment before she can come ,money that would help set you up here,some of us are just australians that have fallen in love with a foregner but its so hard to get them here,all the bull shit about there family that is never going to migrate ,its plane crap,but no there will never be any changes made,it does not affect enough people ,and its not an election ishue ,but boat people well thats another story,so i say if you want to bring your honest,hard working,loyal,decent human being to your country then make it bloody easy for us for gods sake , i am saying this because i am sure that this forum is read by some one in goverment,dont worry about that.it would be well and truly monitered.


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## lipsmackingkiss (Jan 16, 2013)

iduno said:


> k rudd is full of BS, manus island will only be expanded to hold 3000 , where do the other 77000 that are expected this year going to go


That's exactly what I was thinking. I love rudd's idea but its only short term. What will happen when they reached maximum capacity. Apparently we will now be funding more for the asylum seekers and refugees. It's so not fair because the rest of us go through the legal way although the people who apply haven't come from broken homes but at least they are more likely to continue the balance of our country. Bringing in refugees can disturb our country with more violence and more problems but in saying there are always a minor few who would keep the balance but who's supposed to know if they're just a random person or family that have come from broken third world countries.


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## kmarees1986 (Apr 23, 2012)

eleanor said:


> well i would vote for any polly that will stand up and make some changes to partner migration,its just to bloody hard in some cases, for instance if you are an australian born citerson and you want to bring your overseas partner,girlfriend,wife what ever it should be much simpler, like in australia you can get a divorce over the phone now ,my brother did about 8 years ago never even had to go to court,but try and bring your philippino married girl friend here and see what happens, they know its so hard and time consuming,and expensive yet they make you go through that process ,you have to spend lots of money on the anaulment before she can come ,money that would help set you up here,some of us are just australians that have fallen in love with a foregner but its so hard to get them here,all the bull shit about there family that is never going to migrate ,its plane crap,but no there will never be any changes made,it does not affect enough people ,and its not an election ishue ,but boat people well thats another story,so i say if you want to bring your honest,hard working,loyal,decent human being to your country then make it bloody easy for us for gods sake , i am saying this because i am sure that this forum is read by some one in goverment,dont worry about that.it would be well and truly monitered.


Its like that for a reason, too many people have commited fraud in the past and even though your partner is genuine - many have not been before!


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## eleanor (Apr 27, 2013)

lipsmackingkiss said:


> That's exactly what I was thinking. I love rudd's idea but its only short term. What will happen when they reached maximum capacity. Apparently we will now be funding more for the asylum seekers and refugees. It's so not fair because the rest of us go through the legal way although the people who apply haven't come from broken homes but at least they are more likely to continue the balance of our country. Bringing in refugees can disturb our country with more violence and more problems but in saying there are always a minor few who would keep the balance but who's supposed to know if they're just a random person or family that have come from broken third world countries.


rudd is saying that all refuegees that are found to be genuan are all going to be sent to live on NEW GUINA not australia, so they wont like that and will stop comming, thats his plan .


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## chicken999 (May 2, 2013)

I love it. If it works it will stop the boats cause they won't want to live in those places. Defeats the whole purpose of paying 10k each to get on a boat


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## eleanor (Apr 27, 2013)

chicken999 said:


> I love it. If it works it will stop the boats cause they won't want to live in those places. Defeats the whole purpose of paying 10k each to get on a boat


yes i like it to,but am worried about what happens when the camps are full.


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## dunan (Oct 5, 2012)

Well the Iranians have started rioting on Nauru with the news and holding staff hostage...300 locals have gone in to control the situation....looks like gigantic problems ahead...


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## Aussieboy07 (Jan 4, 2013)

eleanor said:


> well i would vote for any polly that will stand up and make some changes to partner migration,its just to bloody hard in some cases, for instance if you are an australian born citerson and you want to bring your overseas partner,girlfriend,wife what ever it should be much simpler, like in australia you can get a divorce over the phone now ,my brother did about 8 years ago never even had to go to court,but try and bring your philippino married girl friend here and see what happens, they know its so hard and time consuming,and expensive yet they make you go through that process ,you have to spend lots of money on the anaulment before she can come ,money that would help set you up here,some of us are just australians that have fallen in love with a foregner but its so hard to get them here,all the bull shit about there family that is never going to migrate ,its plane crap,but no there will never be any changes made,it does not affect enough people ,and its not an election ishue ,but boat people well thats another story,so i say if you want to bring your honest,hard working,loyal,decent human being to your country then make it bloody easy for us for gods sake , i am saying this because i am sure that this forum is read by some one in goverment,dont worry about that.it would be well and truly monitered.


Hey Iduno 
I can assure you that this site will be read by at least one senator who I will visit on an almost daily basis. I have waited for the visa approval now I am going political more so than before. I do not believe that Prime Minister, Kevin Rudd has gone far enough but it is a start in the right direction. I personally would like to see the boats occupants redirected to Thailand, Philippines. I agree with you why should the boat people be prioritized for processing? In saying that I also believe that someone who is escaping persecution needs a safe haven and that does not need to be Australia


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## nadam (Jan 8, 2013)

Reading this topic hurts my head. I would have thought people with partners from all corners of the globe would be a little more open-minded, but I guess not.


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## lipsmackingkiss (Jan 16, 2013)

nadam said:


> Reading this topic hurts my head. I would have thought people with partners from all corners of the globe would be a little more open-minded, but I guess not.


The thing is though Australian citizens/perm residential people should be number 1 priority then visa applications meaning all of us who have applied the correct and legal way without bribing (genuine applications). Yes all refugees should be sent to a different country. Why aren't we like Americans, I have heard they always turn boats away, correct me if I have misheard or misread please? Their government should be resolving their own country's problems or we could do what Americans do and send in troops?! When does it end. No matter what Australians should be prioritised then the visa applications at the embassies then the rest of the world.


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## nadam (Jan 8, 2013)

lipsmackingkiss said:


> The thing is though Australian citizens/perm residential people should be number 1 priority then visa applications meaning all of us who have applied the correct and legal way without bribing (genuine applications). Yes all refugees should be sent to a different country. Why aren't we like Americans, I have heard they always turn boats away, correct me if I have misheard or misread please? Their government should be resolving their own country's problems or we could do what Americans do and send in troops?! When does it end. No matter what Australians should be prioritised then the visa applications at the embassies then the rest of the world.


Probably because that completely and utterly lacks compassion for these people. Fleeing violence and persecution and our biggest concern is not for their well-being but the idea that they're "bloody queue-jumpers!"

My wife and I have been waiting for the decision on our visa for more than 13 months now, and despite all the issues and uncertainties it causes our own lives, I accept that if it means people escaping danger are accepted into a safer society such as Australia in a timely manner.

But, then again, maybe my eyes are opened more because my partner is herself from a previously war-torn country, and, thanks to living and speaking to people in that nation for over a year, I gained a pretty good idea of the decisions people would have liked to make when living under such conditions.


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## aussieinarg (Jan 18, 2012)

lipsmackingkiss said:


> The thing is though Australian citizens/perm residential people should be number 1 priority then visa applications meaning all of us who have applied the correct and legal way without bribing (genuine applications). Yes all refugees should be sent to a different country. Why aren't we like Americans, I have heard they always turn boats away, correct me if I have misheard or misread please? Their government should be resolving their own country's problems or we could do what Americans do and send in troops?! When does it end. No matter what Australians should be prioritised then the visa applications at the embassies then the rest of the world.


I am not so sure I agree with you. If a genuine refugee is prioritised over my girlfriend who can live safely in Argentina without here life being in danger we wouldnt be concerned at all if we have to wait a cpl more months.

The way the US deals with international diplomacy and border protection I am not sure is a model for anyone.


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## rupaksahoo (Jul 17, 2013)

Is anyone give me guidelines, how can i get pr visa for Australia, and how much good in fashion design career at Australia?

Sent from my Xolo_X900 using Australia


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## kmarees1986 (Apr 23, 2012)

nadam said:


> Probably because that completely and utterly lacks compassion for these people. Fleeing violence and persecution and our biggest concern is not for their well-being but the idea that they're "bloody queue-jumpers!"
> 
> My wife and I have been waiting for the decision on our visa for more than 13 months now, and despite all the issues and uncertainties it causes our own lives, I accept that if it means people escaping danger are accepted into a safer society such as Australia in a timely manner.
> 
> But, then again, maybe my eyes are opened more because my partner is herself from a previously war-torn country, and, thanks to living and speaking to people in that nation for over a year, I gained a pretty good idea of the decisions people would have liked to make when living under such conditions.


What do you say about these people passing through several safe countries on their journey and most of them reported to be economic refufees who aren't in any danger?

Just as it is not black and white in saying these people are queue jumpers, it is not black and white to say they are legitimate asylum seekers.


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## iduno (Jan 24, 2013)

What Papua New Guinea is like.
I work in the Oil exploration industry and over the last 15 years have been in PNG for more than 7 years.
90% of the population are subsistence farmers/hunter gatherers.
Of the 10% that live in the city's, unemployment is above 85%.
The living standard is very low, medical care is terrible,TB is endemic,malaria kills thousands each year, mostly the very young and old people.
Lae general hospital is called "house die" by the local people, Lae is the second biggest city in the country.
Port Moresby hospital regularly runs out of medicine.
In the villagers they sometimes have a first aid post, but very rarely have any medicine or bandages.
Crime is out of control all over the country, there are lots of no go areas in the towns and city's.
Pack rape, murder and armed hold ups are a daily occurrence almost everywhere in the country, not too bad in the villages.
The vast majority of the population does not have electricity or water.
Education is of a very low standard, no books sometime no teachers.

So what is rudd going to do with the all the people he sends there...build a new city "Refo City" and spend billions on building and supporting them for ever????
Now what about medical and schools!!!!

Nearly forgot to mention: The Australian High Commission compound is called "Fort Shit Scared" by long term expats, you should be able to work out why it has that name.


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## eleanor (Apr 27, 2013)

when i was in japan a few weeks ago i went to the detention centre in tokyo with my partner,she was visiting a friend that had been caught for over staying her work visa and has now been in detension for 7 months,but i did not get to see her because we forgot my passport and i was only aloud to wate inside,but what i noticed was the building is a high rise in tokyo ,no razer wire,and i saw no armed gards,to look at the building it looked like any other high rise in tokyo, but japan and tialand ,and many other countrys dont get many refuegees because there is no social security there,if you dont work you dont get payed and then you are home less living on the streets ,and i have seen them as well,like the philippines ,no work no money,but here in australia no work plenty of money if you live as a big family,and that is why they come here,so goverment need to say to refugees to australia NO WORK NO MONEY and that would slow down the flow,beleave me.


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## lipsmackingkiss (Jan 16, 2013)

nadam said:


> Probably because that completely and utterly lacks compassion for these people. Fleeing violence and persecution and our biggest concern is not for their well-being but the idea that they're "bloody queue-jumpers!"
> 
> My wife and I have been waiting for the decision on our visa for more than 13 months now, and despite all the issues and uncertainties it causes our own lives, I accept that if it means people escaping danger are accepted into a safer society such as Australia in a timely manner.
> 
> But, then again, maybe my eyes are opened more because my partner is herself from a previously war-torn country, and, thanks to living and speaking to people in that nation for over a year, I gained a pretty good idea of the decisions people would have liked to make when living under such conditions.


Yes that's what I'm saying. What about the visa applicants who have come from a country where its not safe but are applying through the correct channel to be with family, work, study or be with their partner. Who makes the decision to say that visa applicants aren't as important as refugees? Everyone has a story, a story that would like to be shared unfortunately the world is rapidly growing with numbers hence the government, hence the processes of legal systems, so that it is fair for EVERYONE. Australia is not the only safe country in the world. The refugees boats pass other countries that are also safe. Money is their motivation for coming here hopefully there won't be as many boats for the Rudd's new plan but in saying that its only a short term plan and really all boats should be turned around and they should go to another country that they pass by on the travels here.


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## Aussieboy07 (Jan 4, 2013)

I guess the reality is our opinions here will not determine what happens, it will be the election that decides what will happen

Irrespective of where the people go, I believe the empty boats should be sunk and their crews imprisoned for 30 years no bail for endangering lives


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## GBP (Jun 1, 2013)

Aussieboy07 said:


> I guess the reality is our opinions here will not determine what happens, it will be the election that decides what will happen
> 
> Irrespective of where the people go, I believe the empty boats should be sunk and their crews imprisoned for 30 years no bail for endangering lives


With the money they collected from their "customers", they can probably live like a king in the prison. 

Police attend full-scale riot at asylum seeker detention centre on Nauru - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

"They've been told it will be a week or so before they get their first interview.

"[Others have] had interviews and now, six months on, they still haven't got answers to the refugee determination, so the anger and frustration has been building over weeks and months."

Wow! Many of us should be marching now.


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## Theoilman (Mar 17, 2013)

kmarees1986 said:


> What do you say about these people passing through several safe countries on their journey and most of them reported to be economic refufees who aren't in any danger?
> 
> Just as it is not black and white in saying these people are queue jumpers, it is not black and white to say they are legitimate asylum seekers.


most countries between the main countries of origin of most of the asylum seekers (Afghanistan and Iran) and Australia are not signatories to the UN accord for taking asylum seekers, and will either kick them out and send them back to their home country or detain them in camps indefinitely. for the people who face the choice of stay in their country and die or strike out for the nearest country that will take them, Australia and Europe are the two closest options for the most part.


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## Theoilman (Mar 17, 2013)

Aussieboy07 said:


> I guess the reality is our opinions here will not determine what happens, it will be the election that decides what will happen
> 
> Irrespective of where the people go, I believe the empty boats should be sunk and their crews imprisoned for 30 years no bail for endangering lives


I don't think the election will make a big difference. Abbott loves to poke at Rudd, but I'm doubtful he would change the policy if Liberal wins.


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## Whitney (Jan 4, 2013)

Theoilman said:


> I don't think the election will make a big difference. Abbott loves to poke at Rudd, but I'm doubtful he would change the policy if Liberal wins.


Tony Abbott said it was a great idea but that it would fail under Kevin Rudd. I think the policy is here to stay. I'm really curious if it will be a success.


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## Aussieboy07 (Jan 4, 2013)

Why don't we just send them to New Zealand since all the Kiwis live here anyway. Oh by the way I am only just joking )


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## ccpro (Feb 2, 2012)

It is so interesting to see that fellow members on this forum are much more insightful than a lot of the politicians who make decisions for Australia. maybe they should frequent here more often to get the ideas of immigration reality


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## GBP (Jun 1, 2013)

ccpro said:


> It is so interesting to see that fellow members on this forum are much more insightful than a lot of the politicians who make decisions for Australia. maybe they should frequent here more often to get the ideas of immigration reality


Something simple and straightforward can become very complicated when it involve politicians.


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## Aussieboy07 (Jan 4, 2013)

ccpro said:


> It is so interesting to see that fellow members on this forum are much more insightful than a lot of the politicians who make decisions for Australia. maybe they should frequent here more often to get the ideas of immigration reality


 We as citizens do not know the full story but I am confident that the politicians do as they have 1000's of public servants feeding them information. I am happy to vote for any politician who is well informed of the issues and who has our nation's interest as their main focus rather than a politician who gets elected due to their fame.
I always shake my head in amazement when people like Clint Eastwood (great actor), Arnie (i'll be back), Sonny (my wife is Cher), HHMM Glen Lazurus (great footballer), seriously!! I was to scared to mention Ronald Regan. Got to go now secret police at my door hehe


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## Aussieboy07 (Jan 4, 2013)

ccpro
I am aware that there is 1 senator that visits this site


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## dunan (Oct 5, 2012)

FROM 2001-2008........25 Boats with 448 people.

2009.......60 boats with 2,726 people.
2010.......134 boats with 6,555 people.
2011.......69 boats with 4,565 people.

2012.......278 boats with 17,202 people..

So you can see how alarming and political it has become for the Australian People...


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## Zamaussie (Jan 16, 2012)

Whats there for PNG in all this?


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## Zamaussie (Jan 16, 2012)

dunan said:


> FROM 2001-2008........25 Boats with 448 people.
> 
> 2009.......60 boats with 2,726 people.
> 2010.......134 boats with 6,555 people.
> ...


Thats far less than people that go into Italy per year


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## Adventuress (Jan 8, 2012)

dunan said:


> FROM 2001-2008........25 Boats with 448 people.
> 
> 2009.......60 boats with 2,726 people.
> 2010.......134 boats with 6,555 people.
> ...


Wow, what a huge number for one of the richest countries in the world with a population of 23 million...

Before the Syrian war, Jordan had a population of about 6 million.

In the two years of the war it has taken in a reported 250,000 refugees from Syria (and counting every day).

Prior to that, it took in a reported 750,000 refugees from Iraq.

Prior to that, it took in more than 1 million refugees from Palestine.

It is one of the most water-poor countries in the world. An estimated 80% or more of the land is desert, i.e. not habitable. It has a high cost of living and very low median wages. And yet it has not shirked its responsibilities to its fellow human beings, despite receiving relatively little aid for the requirements of the circumstances.

Seventeen thousand for a rich country of 23 million? Please.


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## iduno (Jan 24, 2013)

Adventuress said:


> Wow, what a huge number for one of the richest countries in the world with a population of 23 million...
> 
> Before the Syrian war, Jordan had a population of about 6 million.
> 
> ...


I think a lot of people forget that Australia has developed to what it is now by being able to control who comes here.
Since WW2 Australia has taken in about 8million people and it has become a better country because of what each one of the immigrants has bought with them from there old country's.
Apart from the USA and Canada what other country's have accepted so many new citizens.


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## kmarees1986 (Apr 23, 2012)

Adventuress said:


> Wow, what a huge number for one of the richest countries in the world with a population of 23 million...
> 
> Before the Syrian war, Jordan had a population of about 6 million.
> 
> ...


You're missing the point. Its not a case of denying refugees a right to seek asylum in Australia, its about putting a stop to people smuggling and arriving by boats. The best part of Rudds proposed policy - more visas and visa options for asylum seekers so they can do it properly!


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## GBP (Jun 1, 2013)

17,202 "boat people", not 17,202 refugee in total, don't get it wrong. Please.

I think the purpose of putting those figures up there is to show that people smuggling have become a much more challenging situation over the years, especially in recent few years. 

Countries receiving refugees normally are also receiving foreign aids. But do you know where all or big part of the money goes to?


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## Aussieboy07 (Jan 4, 2013)

I guess I will be attacked for this but frankly I am sick of politically correctness. Go Kevin 2013, I do not care where you send them. Mr Abott is also on the same page.


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## eleanor (Apr 27, 2013)

ccpro said:


> It is so interesting to see that fellow members on this forum are much more insightful than a lot of the politicians who make decisions for Australia. maybe they should frequent here more often to get the ideas of immigration reality


i have been saying that 4 ages.but we are just the servents,they are the masters,


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## eleanor (Apr 27, 2013)

Zamaussie said:


> Whats there for PNG in all this?


for the people of png nothing,for the priminister of png,$ name your price.


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## nadam (Jan 8, 2013)

kmarees1986 said:


> What do you say about these people passing through several safe countries on their journey and most of them reported to be economic refufees who aren't in any danger?
> 
> Just as it is not black and white in saying these people are queue jumpers, it is not black and white to say they are legitimate asylum seekers.


"Most of them [are] economic refugees."

Where's your evidence to support this claim? Please don't tell me it's a quote from Bob Carr!?

If they are not genuine asylum seekers, then why are the acceptance rates so high?



> Statistics from 2008 showed at least 13 asylum seekers arrive through Australian airports daily, more than 32 times the number of boat people supposedly ''flooding'' across our maritime borders in that year. A total of 4768 ''plane people'', more than 96 per cent of applicants for refugee status, arrived in that year on legitimate tourist, business and other visas - compared with 161 who arrived by boat during the same period. While boat numbers have increased, *Australian Government statistics from the first quarter of 2013 showed more than 90 per cent of asylum seekers who arrived by boat were found to be genuine refugees.* In comparison, those who arrived by plane - despite being eligible for release into the community and not having to face years of detention on Nauru or Manus Island - were almost twice as likely to be rejected as refugees. The figure continued a long-term trend of high approval rates for people arriving by boat, with 93.5 per cent being found to be refugees in 2010-11 and 91 per cent in 2011-12.
> 
> Read more: Ten myths around asylum seekers arriving on boats in Australian waters | News.com.au


And from SBS:



> The visa approval rates of refugees arriving by boat is relatively high. In 2011-12, 84 per cent of arrivals from Afghanistan were approved for a visa, and 76 per cent of those arriving from Iraq were approved. The lowest rate was for refugees from Iran, at 61 per cent approved in 2011-12. Overall, the visa grant rate for IMAs was 71 per cent in 2011-12.


Source: Interactive: Refugees and asylum seekers | SBS World News

If that's not enough, here is a rational and informative rebuttal from Sara Davies (Senior Research Fellow, International Relations Griffiths University) to Bob Carr's claim that most asylum seekers arriving by boat are 'economic refugees':

*FactCheck: are asylum seekers really economic refugees?*

PS. What 'safe' countries are you referring to? Surely not Malaysia or Indonesia?



> *Constraints*
> 
> In South-East Asia's complex mixed-migration context, States' interests relating to national security and the maintenance of good relations with neighbours constrain refugee protection and access to asylum. The problem is compounded by the lack of national legal frameworks for dealing with refugees and asylum-seekers in many countries. The use of detention facilities to hold asylum-seekers, refugees and stateless people, including children and others vulnerable to exploitation and abuse, is a worrying trend. In addition, many urban refugees and asylum-seekers face a precarious situation due to limited livelihood opportunities or access to social services.


Source: UNHCR - Indonesia


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## GBP (Jun 1, 2013)

If you come by boats, pay the smugglers $10k+ per head, no proper documents, no valid visa, you have a better chance?

On the other hand, if you come by plane, going through all the procedures and getting a valid visa to board a plane, you now have less chance? 

How is that work? I thought they all comes from the same country facing the similar situation?


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## kmarees1986 (Apr 23, 2012)

> "Most of them [are] economic refugees."
> 
> Where's your evidence to support this claim? Please don't tell me it's a quote from Bob Carr!?
> 
> ...


And News.com.au - a generic internet based news site is all genuine fact checked information? Not sure I would trust everything I read on this site! Where are their resources to their facts in the article? Apart from a couple of pictures being referenced none of the other information appears to have come from anywhere at all?



> And from SBS:
> 
> Quote:
> The visa approval rates of refugees arriving by boat is relatively high. In 2011-12, 84 per cent of arrivals from Afghanistan were approved for a visa, and 76 per cent of those arriving from Iraq were approved. The lowest rate was for refugees from Iran, at 61 per cent approved in 2011-12. Overall, the visa grant rate for IMAs was 71 per cent in 2011-12.
> ...


Great! SBS does carry some more credibility when it comes to reporting facts, however...The SBS article shows recent figures of people seeking asylum in Australia due to conflict in their country - but the Brisbane times article you posted actually reports that there is no way they could tell really who are genuine asylum seekers as 20,000 odd refugees that have arrived since August 2012 haven't been processed...so do SBS have some inside information that the government committees and institutions set up to monitor and process refugees - don't?



> Because of this, as reported in The Guardian: "there has been virtually no processing of the claims made by the more than 20,000 refugees who have arrived since that time". This was confirmed in the Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee on May 27, 2013. So, if we have not processed claims, we have no idea whether recent arrivals by boat are "genuine" refugees or not.
> 
> Read more: FactCheck: are asylum seekers really economic refugees?


I am not going to argue about the politics of who stated what, when and why and nor am I going to trawell the internet for links to articles with further mis-information which are clearly nothing more than opinion peices...I have heard both that it is true and that it is untrue. My point for my original comment to you was basically that it is not black and white and we really just don't have all the correct information.

Regardless, I am pro asylum, anti people smuggling!


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## kmarees1986 (Apr 23, 2012)

nadam said:


> PS. What 'safe' countries are you referring to? Surely not Malaysia or Indonesia?Source: UNHCR - Indonesia


Sorry, which part of the article are you referring to that deems Malaysia and Indonesia "unsafe"? In what context do you mean "unsafe" also, because as I understand it the refugees are fleeing from conflicted countries and are fearing their lives - whats going on in Indonesia and Malaysia that is as dire as that?


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## Adventuress (Jan 8, 2012)

I'm sorry, how is it that these people are supposed to get valid visas to get on a plane, if they can't tick all the boxes in a long list to allow them to immigrate? It is legal to arrive in Australia by air or by sea without a visa for the purposes to seek asylum, but come on, I'm sure that we all here - on an immigration forum - know that it's unlikely that any airline will allow anybody to board a plane to Australia without a visa, because then they will charged for the costs of deporting that person! Going through the proper "procedures" to be granted asylum takes months upon months of waiting, and time is something that these people do not have. Ok, so if they stay and wait they won't be taking the risk of drowning from the boats, but they'll probably be killed where they are by the people they're fleeing. But that's ok, isn't it, because we don't have to see that on television or even think about it. So, problem solved!

It is telling that the most vocal people about "stopping the boats" are those who have never had to experience a life without free speech, or free movement, or all the golden opportunities to be successful in life based on talent and potential, rather than money or connections.

I really don't think I'm missing the point here when people are talking about "broken third world countries", and the fact that displaced people have to be settled somewhere, but "why does it have to be Australia?" This was once known as the land of opportunity, "for those who've come across the seas, we've boundless plains to share". Now it's just a nation of immigrants who have had the fortunate to make their lives here, scrambling over each other to slam the door on anyone else who might hope to do the same. And this has never been just about asylum seekers. Get over yourselves. You're not special just because you're Australian. If you were born here, Australia didn't pluck you out of a pile for your special qualities. You just won the lottery of life.


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## kmarees1986 (Apr 23, 2012)

Adventuress said:


> I'm sorry, how is it that these people are supposed to get valid visas to get on a plane, if they can't tick all the boxes in a long list to allow them to immigrate? It is legal to arrive in Australia by air or by sea without a visa for the purposes to seek asylum, but come on, I'm sure that we all here - on an immigration forum - know that it's unlikely that any airline will allow anybody to board a plane to Australia without a visa, because then they will charged for the costs of deporting that person! Going through the proper "procedures" to be granted asylum takes months upon months of waiting, and time is something that these people do not have. Ok, so if they stay and wait they won't be taking the risk of drowning from the boats, but they'll probably be killed where they are by the people they're fleeing. But that's ok, isn't it, because we don't have to see that on television or even think about it. So, problem solved!
> 
> It is telling that the most vocal people about "stopping the boats" are those who have never had to experience a life without free speech, or free movement, or all the golden opportunities to be successful in life based on talent and potential, rather than money or connections.
> 
> I really don't think I'm missing the point here when people are talking about "broken third world countries", and the fact that displaced people have to be settled somewhere, but "why does it have to be Australia?" This was once known as the land of opportunity, "for those who've come across the seas, we've boundless plains to share". Now it's just a nation of immigrants who have had the fortunate to make their lives here, scrambling over each other to slam the door on anyone else who might hope to do the same. And this has never been just about asylum seekers. Get over yourselves. You're not special just because you're Australian. If you were born here, Australia didn't pluck you out of a pile for your special qualities. You just won the lottery of life.


I will agree with you that the process of getting a visa is too difficult - that is one thing that we have discussed needs to change in order for the boats to stop. I understand Rudd's policy will see changes to the visa's which is very very positive. In fact as I just clicked on the immi website to review a standard visa application for a refugee - I see the changes have already started. I don't care if these people are settled in Australia, we are a country made up of resettled nations afterall. It just makes me sick to my stomach that people smuggling is so rife and seems to be so tolerated?

I won't apologise for being lucky enough to be Australian either. It doesn't make me uneducated or unsympathetic to world issues just becuase I haven't faced the same hardships.


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## nadam (Jan 8, 2013)

kmarees1986 said:


> And News.com.au - a generic internet based news site is all genuine fact checked information? Not sure I would trust everything I read on this site! Where are their resources to their facts in the article? Apart from a couple of pictures being referenced none of the other information appears to have come from anywhere at all?
> 
> Great! SBS does carry some more credibility when it comes to reporting facts, however...The SBS article shows recent figures of people seeking asylum in Australia due to conflict in their country - but the Brisbane times article you posted actually reports that there is no way they could tell really who are genuine asylum seekers as 20,000 odd refugees that have arrived since August 2012 haven't been processed...so do SBS have some inside information that the government committees and institutions set up to monitor and process refugees - don't?
> 
> ...


I agree regarding the credibility of news.com.au, but anyway, away with the "opinion pieces," here's the official DIAC statistics, straight from the horse's mouth:

http://www.immi.gov.au/media/public...um/_files/asylum-stats-march-quarter-2013.pdf

The discrepancy you mentioned may be explained in the 'Overview' section on page 4:



> 'For this reason, the grant rates set out in the tables are not recognition rates since the actual determination that a person is a refugee or is owed protection may have occurred during an earlier period. The effect of this is strongest for the irregular maritime arrival (IMA) caseload which has a more uneven profile compared with the non-IMA caseload, which means the effects of delays in health, security or character checks are exacerbated.'


As for Malaysia and Indonesia, I don't think you or I have any idea to state how the living conditions would be for an asylum seeker. However, if you were indeed an asylum seeker, would you take your family to nations that aren't even signatories of the UN Refugee Convention and Protocol? Or would you take the (undoubted, perhaps unknown) risk to get them to Australia, a nation with a long and strong history of accepting migrants escaping persecution?

Anyway, I agree with you, not everything is black and white. I am sure that, at the end of the day, our hearts are in the right place, and we want the best resolution for everyone involved. We may just have different methods for doing so.

Reasoned and rational discussion like this is good.


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## rhirhi (Apr 14, 2013)

Please do not miss understand me as I have no issue with genuine asylum seekers (more so with people smugglers) 

If they came to Australia on boat or apply the preferred way (offshore) wouldn't they need to fulfill the same criteria for the humanitarian visa and there fore have the same chances as before even though they are not able to arrive by boat anymore? I think it great that they have will be giving out more humanitarian visas and this way it seems we will be able to ensure they go to the truly desperate people (not people who may be fooled by people smugglers). More than anything this measure seems as though it will stop people smuggling and ensure more people in need are indeed granted visas.


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## kmarees1986 (Apr 23, 2012)

> As for Malaysia and Indonesia, I don't think you or I have any idea to state how the living conditions would be for an asylum seeker. However, if you were indeed an asylum seeker, would you take your family to nations that aren't even signatories of the UN Refugee Convention and Protocol? Or would you take the (undoubted, perhaps unknown) risk to get them to Australia, a nation with a long and strong history of accepting migrants escaping persecution?


Point taken, I missed that this was your point in your first comment.



> Reasoned and rational discussion like this is good.


Agreed


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## GBP (Jun 1, 2013)

Nothing wrong with asylum seekers coming to Australia, but the problem is people smugglers.


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## dunan (Oct 5, 2012)

.......and burning down the facilities, causing around 60 million dollars worth of damage, attacking security and running off, shows how much respect some of these so called refugees have for Australia that offers them sanctuary...

This is the behavior that pisses most aussies off....


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## davistev (Jul 17, 2013)

iduno said:


> Apart from the USA and Canada what other country's have accepted so many new citizens.


As strange as it may seem - China has accepted close to 2 million Vietnamese.


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## iduno (Jan 24, 2013)

davistev said:


> As strange as it may seem - China has accepted close to 2 million Vietnamese.


China also send North Koreans back and then they go into "re education Camps"


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## Oldgit (Jul 15, 2013)

I believe that Germany has accepted approx 350,000 refugees as asylum seekers making them 3rd in the overall numbers ranking but this does not mean that they are permanent residents just that they can live and work there, this is the difference, the figures which make Aus look very good is the number which are permanently resettled here with citizenship, which puts Aus at about 3rd in the rankings for perm resettlement but about 25th in terms of total number accepted for asylum in the wider population.


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## rayromano (Jul 17, 2013)

Australia cannot be the rich , developed 1st world country that it is right now if it doesnt do anything to control the flow of boats (with possibly genuine refugees and economic migrants) which have been surely increasing and there's really no doubt in that is there !?

The Economic migrants have spoiled it for refugees now. And in this age of 2013 everyone knows the world map and everyone is smarter than they were maybe 50 years back. 
Everyones taking smart decisions and Australia cannot act dumb. Australia has to be competitive and decisions such as the refugee resettlement plans has to be made in the interests of the Australians.

Obviously no one would sit back knowing that they have ingenuine guests coming into their party and eating all their food and staying back ---it will be as if you do not have any control of your home.!


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## dunan (Oct 5, 2012)

Well no matter what, this will be a key issue for both parties and from the polls and comments on most forums, most agree with Rudd...


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## Zamaussie (Jan 16, 2012)

dunan said:


> Well no matter what, this will be a key issue for both parties and from the polls and comments on most forums, most agree with Rudd...


Yep. Its all about winning the voters. But time will tell if its a good policy.


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## Oldgit (Jul 15, 2013)

Well there is a very old adage " countries get the Governments they deserve" and Australia is about to learn the wisdom of that with the 'Refugee issue' determining govt for the foreseeable future, rather than policy discussions about the real issues facing the country such as competitiveness, innovation, industrialisation, modernising industry and education, sorting out the governing of the country vis a vis the State governments and sorting out labour relations so that they reflect 21st century realities and confronting monopolies and protectionism.


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## davistev (Jul 17, 2013)

I really wish people would stop saying that Australia is no longer settling refugees in Australia. Australia will settle 20,000 refugees increasing to 27,000 refugess. This change in policy is simply about Australia choosing to process refugees that are in the camps or adjusting an existing Visa rather than from people who pay money for the Jakarta - Xmas Tsland boat ticket. It is about processing applications in an orderly way. 

The people who want to buy a ticket also have the option of applying at the nearest embassy as do the other 250,000 migrants who emmigrate each year to Australia. People who jump the line have no place in Australian society. Try and jump the line at the pub or at a bus stop and all hell will break loose.

Australian people are a kind lot as evidenced by its Immigration intake and Australian people can also be naive for many reasons as evidenced by the soft touch of giving the benefit of the doubt in favour of aslyum seekers. But the world is split up into different countries where freedom of movement of people is not yet a reality because of Nationalism, Religion and whatever. The reality is that as long as the world have artificial lines called borders and documents restricting moving of people (passports) then Australia cannot continue to have an open border where almost every applicant gets to stay. It would destroy the integrity of the existing immigration system. 

When a relative in Melbourne sends money to the people smuggler overseas in exchange for a ferry ticket to Xmas Island rather than lodging an application like everyone else - then that is jumping the line - simple!


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## Zamaussie (Jan 16, 2012)

G'Day everyone....interesting article about asylum seekers 

No Cookies | The Courier-Mail


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## CollegeGirl (Nov 10, 2012)

Zama, that is a GREAT article. Love it. Thanks for sharing.


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## aussieinarg (Jan 18, 2012)

Its fine to be against the problem and I am not sure this is the best solution what Rudd has proposed, but the Greens & others haven't proposed any real/practical counter solutions. If you take a look at the Greens policy, here it is:
Immigration and Refugees | Australian Greens

Its is very broad. It includes: 1) increasing humanitarian quota, 2) ending offshore processing and 3) resettlement processing.

The increasing of the quota I agree with 100%. But, to what? What is an adequate number? 30,000? 40,000? 100,000? Open gate?. The last one I imagine is what they really want and if we are to abide to the letter of the law to the UN Convention its probably what is should be. But, I am pretty sure we would be the only developed country in the world that had that one and its not practical. The cost and national security risk would be astronomical.

Allowing asylum seekers to live in the community until processed I dont support, its a national security risk (ie you could have terrorists plotting and carrying out attacks which havent even completed any form of check before living in).

Greens also want guaranteed processing completed within 30 days (ie health, security checks etc). How is that possible when a large majority of asylum seekers arrive without IDs and often dont want to even help in being identified? We know from going through visas processes how long it takes from some countries to obtain this information and without the assistance and everything visa applicants prepare, I can understand how the health, character and background checks would take months and in some cases years.

Free health, legal, social security etc. I know a lot already have access to this. In my opinion asylum seekers should not have access to free legal advice. Why is that necessary? Their rights can be documented and read to them but I dont agree they should have the option of any form of coaching which may mean economic migrants are incorrectly granted humanitarian visas.

I actually think we need to completely stamp out the people smuggling for three primary reasons: 
1) Its a totally unfair system and way of gaining asylum in to Australia. Despite what many have said there is actually a queue of sorts (at the UN camps) and although not everyone perhaps has access, there is a lot more people that can access the camps than can make the journey through various countries, afford to stay in Malaysia/Indonesia in the mean time and then pay the thousands of dollars to get on the boats. 
2) its it will save lives at sea; 
3) its an illegal business and in no way should we be encouraging its use as an option to enter the country, where there are people making big money from the most fragile

I would also propose increasing our refugee take by 50% to double but through the UN camps (if I had to put a number on it).

As a side note, in response to the damage caused at Nauru (the $60m) I think I am absolutely disgusted. Asylum seekers being in the camp and the processing delayed in no way justifies that action. The problem is (and if you have spent time in 3rd world countries you will understand) is that the rule of law is either non-existent or not important in many of these countries. People are actually accustomed to breaking the law when things don't go their way (I see it here in Argentina every day). Anyone that breaks the law in those camps should immediately fail the character checks.


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## Zamaussie (Jan 16, 2012)

aussieinarg said:


> As a side note, in response to the damage caused at Nauru (the $60m) I think I am absolutely disgusted. Asylum seekers being in the camp and the processing delayed in no way justifies that action. The problem is (and if you have spent time in 3rd world countries you will understand) is that the rule of law is either non-existent or not important in many of these countries. People are actually accustomed to breaking the law when things don't go their way (I see it here in Argentina every day). Anyone that breaks the law in those camps should immediately fail the character checks.


Its true the delay in processing does not justify their actions, However I don't agree with you on the points that the _*"rule of law is either non-existent or not important in many of these countries. People are actually accustomed to breaking the law when things don't go their way"*_
You make it sound as though people enjoy breaking the law, but you forget about the root cause of these people taking the law in their own hands. Its because of a few corrupt and selfish individuals who manage to manipulate the systems in their favor. For those poor people even if they present their case its going no where hence turning to rioting with the hope of being heard because. People who have nothing to lose are very dangerous !!..But of course there are still a small percentage of people with no proper agenda but just trying to take advantage of the situation .

Have a read on this article - quite interesting

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...d-in-wake-of-abuse-claims-20130723-2qhie.html


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## aussieinarg (Jan 18, 2012)

Zamma you are correct in a way. But law breaking is due to various factors, including lack of enforcement. I guess I was just trying to highlight the fact that in Australia nothing justifies breaking the law and in no way is it tolerated (subject to self defence and a cpl of exceptions!). It's an important distinction to be made and something I always reiterate to my girlfriend!

You have to link me the article you are talking about I can't see it?!


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## Zamaussie (Jan 16, 2012)

Burke to visit Manus Island in wake of abuse claims


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## rayromano (Jul 17, 2013)

What I cant understand is Why is Indonesia not doing anything to stop the boats flow. 

Its increasingly getting dangerous and there are hotspots where these boats leave from. 
Is it a lot of work or even a little bit to get officials to monitor and STOP the boats at the shores itself!? 

Its so increasingly evident that travelling on the boats are costing lives and coupling this with the people smuggling business and economic migrants ,, why in the world is Indonesia letting people leave their shores . 
Its obvious that there is ONLY 1 destination the boats are heading to - Christmas island.

Man,, The governments operate in weird ways for sure.


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## dunan (Oct 5, 2012)

Very simple.....they have brains and in no way want to destabilize their own country into a hotbed of religious intolerance like so many of their fellow Radical Middle East countries.....Just pass it on to Australia...


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## Papi (Apr 29, 2013)

dunan said:


> Very simple.....they have brains and in no way want to destabilize their own country into a hotbed of religious intolerance like so many of their fellow Radical Middle East countries.....Just pass it on to Australia...


Maybe it's the foreign policies of the USA, UK and their lapdog Australia that create division in these middle eastern countries.

If you poke your nose into a bee hive, you'll get more than a little bit of honey.


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## messale8080 (Feb 13, 2013)

I've read every post here and I respect every opinion but I must have my say. 
Boat people, asylem seekers or what ever you call them, they cost Australian Goverment and Australian tax payers a lot of money. In simple words, why should I pay money (my tax money) for these people, why should I pay for their stay and well being, medicare, wellfare and so on. I know that many people won't agree with me but I love my Sydney, my Australia and I am very upset to see the areas of Auburn, Blacktown, Liverpoool and surronding areas full of these people. I feel for my security and might as well say I'm frightened of the groups of 20-30 men from Nigeria, Chad, Sudan standing and doing nothing at Auburn train station and other stations, and the worst case is I'm paying for them. (Haven't seen any of them trying to put out bushfires through out NSW). 
By the way my wife is waiting for her partner visa, applied offshore and no wonder why the waiting period is so long, Australia first takes care of boat people and then down the que, hard working and educated people like my wife and many other people from Europe wanting to enter Australia.


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## GBP (Jun 1, 2013)

Scott Morrison says new Malaysian measures will stop asylum seekers coming by boat - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

I hope these measures can reduce / stop the boats. At least this is better than the "refugee swapping" deal.

PS: Please don't discuss religions and race over here. I'm just sharing some news. No intention to start an argument / debate. Thanks.


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## Papi (Apr 29, 2013)

messale8080 said:


> I've read every post here and I respect every opinion but I must have my say.
> Boat people, asylem seekers or what ever you call them, they cost Australian Goverment and Australian tax payers a lot of money. In simple words, why should I pay money (my tax money) for these people, why should I pay for their stay and well being, medicare, wellfare and so on. I know that many people won't agree with me but I love my Sydney, my Australia and I am very upset to see the areas of Auburn, Blacktown, Liverpoool and surronding areas full of these people. I feel for my security and might as well say I'm frightened of the groups of 20-30 men from Nigeria, Chad, Sudan standing and doing nothing at Auburn train station and other stations, and the worst case is I'm paying for them. (Haven't seen any of them trying to put out bushfires through out NSW).
> By the way my wife is waiting for her partner visa, applied offshore and no wonder why the waiting period is so long, Australia first takes care of boat people and then down the que, hard working and educated people like my wife and many other people from Europe wanting to enter Australia.


I'm in the same boat (no pun intended). It's frustrating that we've gone through the correct channels to get our partners over here, yet these "boat people" as they are called seem to be jumping the queue.

I don't know what the solution is. Who knows why these people risk their lives to jump on dodgy boats to come over here. If the government were serious, they'd process them quicker and send the suspiscious ones back.

There is no easy solution.

But I'm not going to get my knickers in a knot over how much the government spend on these people. I'm more concerned about how much money our government spend on bombing peace and democracy into other countries.


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## Nelly87 (Jul 3, 2011)

I know this thread has evolved but I only read the first few and last few pages and wanted to give my two cents.

People smuggling and trafficking in any way, shape or form must be stopped. I am talking about these boats as much as I am about full on human sex work trafficking. It's a monstrous world that takes terrible advantage of all weaknesses it finds around it. I agree a different solution should be found.

I personally believe that the refugee issue is a global problem, meaning it should be everyone's problem equally, and it should be regulated as such. From my point of view, with history in mind, I do not believe we can progress unless we accept displacement and migration as part of our species. It's a constant. Unfortunately in the 18th and 19th centuries nationalism sneaked in to a degree that prevents us from looking at it that way.

I am a firm believer in that very _few_ people truly want to leave their home country without serious cause. Surely there are the occasional people who do it for riches, but I personally have a hard time imagining what that would feel like. I dreamed of studying in the UK my whole life, but once I met my partner and we started planning for me to move to him in Australia, I realized I would have never left otherwise. I don't think many people can or want to. I wish non-migrants would understand that. How hard it is, for most, to leave their home.

I don't mind waiting for refugees to be processed first. Not at all. Good gods, my own grandfathers were driven from their homes by war - my father's father was driven out of Poland by the Nazis, my mother's father was taken from Indonesia to The Netherlands by a Dutch soldier during colonial conflict there. I have no right to not sympathize, I just don't. My grandfathers have made me who I am today and I cannot imagine, not in a million years, what it must have been like for them to be driven from their homes, unable to go back. I have no issue with refugees. I do have an issue with smugglers.

I don't think being stricter about the boats is wrong. I believe the attitude around it, however, is generally misled. It should be an act of sympathy and care for humanity, not an act of intolerance. And many people support the more extreme measures out of intolerance. That grieves me. We're all on this planet and none of us have only local forefathers. Humans have migrated and fled since the beginning of time. We shouldn't be focusing on refugees, we should be focusing on scammers - in any branch of the migration system (from smugglers to fake couples to anything else).


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## goldfish (Oct 5, 2013)

They showed some of this asylum seekers yesterday on the news behind the wire at the detention center, what a pack of useless beings , here for the centrelink only as the dept of immigrations own website shows, barely literate, barely human, the woman folk bandaged up like mummies, the whole pack of them looked completely unemployable, not that any of them came here to work anyway.


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## CollegeGirl (Nov 10, 2012)

Mmmmmmkay. Thanks, Nelly, for the heartfelt post. Unfortunately, this thread continuously degenerates into borderline (and not so borderline) racist comments, so... more harm than good here, I'm afraid. Closing the thread.


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