# visa 887 discussion



## nep12

hi all,

is anybody outthere who is going to apply visa 887 recently,lets have discussion about visa 887


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## MarkNortham

Hi nep12 -

Any specific questions about the visa? The key with the 887 usually is making sure you meet all the prerequisite requirements from whatever 4xx series visa you are now on, etc..

Best,

Mark Northam


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## nep12

MarkNortham said:


> Hi nep12 -
> 
> Any specific questions about the visa? The key with the 887 usually is making sure you meet all the prerequisite requirements from whatever 4xx series visa you are now on, etc..
> 
> Best,
> 
> Mark Northam


hi mark ,

Thank you for your reply.
i have few questions regarding visa 887 which is as follows:

1) about online application

i am stuck in page 5 which is asking following question:

Regional Australia 
Have you lived for at least two years and worked full time for a total of one year in one or more specified regional area?

No Yes 
if i follow the link specified regional area , it shows the following page which i have added link here:

Regional Australia/Low Population Growth Metropolitan Areas - Workers - Visas & Immigration

in the above mention page its describe about Regional Australia/low population growth metropolitan areas and given list in Regional Australia/low population growth metroplitan areas: its says Victoria 
except Melbourne metropolitan area but i live in Melbourne Metropolitan area, as i am in family sponsored visa 489 ,as part of visa condition i am eligible to live and work anywhere in Victoria but i am in big confusion either i can apply online application for 887 or not because in specified regional area in online application the above mention link is given where it says Victoria except Melbourne Metropolitan area and after 1st jan 2013 visa application 887 only can be submitted online as given in immigration please give me advice.

2) *for proof of residency in specified regional area the following document i have.*
a) Lease agreement in my wifes name( is it acceptable )

b) Utility bill hone bill , Water bill , Mobile Phone Invoice showing my residential address in my wifes name as well (is it acceptable)

c) SChool report from my Daughters School

3) *Full time Employment in Specified Regional Area*.

a) Contract paper from my two employer

b) Reference Letter from my Two Employer intending that i am working as a Nursing Assistant as a casual basis

c) Superanuation Report

d) Tax return

e) Group Certificate

f) Pay slips that shows 35 hours a week for 1 year( i have added hours from my two employers where i am working as a casual basis.)

above mention documents is my proof of residency of 2 years and 1 year full time employment will it be enough , please advice me.

4)* i have submitted my ielts while i applied for 489 visa , so should i need to submit new ielts again*.

5)* is there any mandatory that i must work in nominated occupation as a full time employment or can i work in any kind of occupation which is not related to my nominated occupation as a full time employment.*

*6) Should i need to submit medical report again.*

Thank you
Hope to get reply from You about above question


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## MarkNortham

Hi Nep12 -

You have a lot of questions - you may wish to get some professional assistance with this application as there are some issues raised. As I don't have access to your documents, visa or specifics I cannot comment specifically on your case, but here are some general comments:

1) The definition of "specified regional area" for purposes of the 887 application for a 489 holder depends on the type of 489 sponsorship = if family sponsored 489, then "specified regional area" means "designated area"which includes all of VIC. If state/terr sponsored for 489, then "specified regional area" means regional/low pop growth areas - the list on your link.

2) That evidence seems adequate.

3) That evidence seems fine.

4) IELTS results are good for 3 years now, so it would depend on the age of the test report.

5) No occupation limits on the 489 visa, but the 1 year of work must be full-time and in the specified regional area. Can be for an employer or self-employed. Here's the link for employment evidence:

Skilled - Regional (Residence) visa (subclass 887)

6 - only if they ask for it.

Hope this helps!

Best,

Mark Northam


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## justmex

Hi mark,

Can you please advice me how long it takes to process 887 visa? in a practical manner.


Is there any time line difference between 475 to 887
and 487 to 887?



Thanks


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## MarkNortham

Hi -

For new applications, where the application is properly prepared and all necessary forms and docs are included (ie, no delays due to application errors), we're seeing the process take between 4 and 6 months typically.

Hope this helps -

Best,

Mark Northam



justmex said:


> Hi mark,
> 
> Can you please advice me how long it takes to process 887 visa? in a practical manner.
> 
> Is there any time line difference between 475 to 887
> and 487 to 887?
> 
> Thanks


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## Ricky_hope1

*Document for residence proof*



MarkNortham said:


> Hi -
> 
> For new applications, where the application is properly prepared and all necessary forms and docs are included (ie, no delays due to application errors), we're seeing the process take between 4 and 6 months typically.
> 
> Hope this helps -
> 
> Best,
> 
> Mark Northam


Hi Mark,

Can you please tell me whether Bank statements are valid proof of residence for 887 visa. I don't have lease or utility bills for certain period so Can I use bank statements & communication from ATO as my residence proof for 887 Visa.
Thanks


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## MarkNortham

Hi Ricky -

I think you would need to somehow show that they were created on a date in the past that you were claiming residence, ie sent in the mail, etc. The reason why is that DIAC might say that you changed your address now, and printed off the Internet your old statements - that any statements printed from the Internet will reflect the current address even if they are old statements. Not sure how your bank works, but that's something to consider. 

Best,

Mark Northam


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## Ricky_hope1

MarkNortham said:


> Hi Ricky -
> 
> I think you would need to somehow show that they were created on a date in the past that you were claiming residence, ie sent in the mail, etc. The reason why is that DIAC might say that you changed your address now, and printed off the Internet your old statements - that any statements printed from the Internet will reflect the current address even if they are old statements. Not sure how your bank works, but that's something to consider.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Mark Northam


Thanks Mark,

That should not be an issue as my bank generate automatically bank statement every month so each of those statement will show time period of those statement & once generated even I can't go back and change address. So from your answer, Can I conclude that Bank statement are admissible proof of residence as long as I can show that it is generated between certain time in past.


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## akmink

*487 visa requirement*

Hi All,
I was granted 487 visa on May 2012 and I have been in Australia from 2009.
I have also completed my 1 year full time employment requirement.

1. I was wondering can I apply for 487 visa now, since immigration takes 6-8 months to process? I understand that I didn't held 487 visa for 2 years but I will by the time they will process. (Also personally I think its illogical rule)
2. What is the total cost of applying for this visa? Mark could you get me estimate if I have to go with you?

Thanks 
Kind regards,
Ankush


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## MarkNortham

Hi Ankush -

I believe you're referring to applying for the 887 Skilled (Regional) PR visa. Assuming that's the case, you cannot apply until you have lived in a regional area (designated in the regulations) for at least 2 years as a holder of your 487 visa.

Current DIAC Visa Application Charge (VAC) for the 887 visa is $325 unless you have any dependents who cannot demonstrate Functional English (there's a charge of $4,250 for each 18 years old and older if this is the case). Many people do these applications themselves - if you would like to engage us to prepare yours, our fee is $995.

Please advise if I can provide any further information or assistance -

Best,

Mark Northam


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## akmink

Mark Northam[/QUOTE]

Hi Mark,
Thanks for your response back. Second alternative I have is applying for 189 directly on 60 points. I have today submitted EOI, can I get PR quicker throught this channel. What you think, should I wait for 887 or I should go for 189. I understand there is significant cost of $3000 but I want to get PR faster.
2. I havent moved out of Australia since I was granted 487 visa, do I need to get overseas police clearance and medical again?

And if you think 189 is a quick way, what you reckon would be your fees for that apllication.

Thanks
Ankush


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## MarkNortham

Hi Ankush -

The 189 processing regime is more complex than the 887, plus for the 189 you've got to wait and receive an invite (may be difficult with only 60 points depending on how many other people in your occupation have higher points scores) before you can even apply. I'd probably go for the 887, but if money is no problem when lodge them both and see which one comes through first! DIAC will ask you to withdraw the other one before issuing you a visa.

Generally police and health checks are good for 1 year - you'll probably need a new health check; they may accept your police check - depends.

Best,

Mark Northam


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## szehow

*887 work reference letter*

Hi, thanks everyone for the 887 information.
I am on 487 visa now. I am going to apply 887 visa soon. However, i having some problems with the work reference letter from employer.

I worked as full timer for a company (family based business) for 1.5 years and this company has recently closed/sold to other. I forgot to gain the work reference letter from this employer before I changed to current job.

The documents that I have is contracts, pay slips, tax returns, group certificates and superannuation information. Is this enough for evidence?

Thanks for the help.


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## MarkNortham

Hi Szehow -

If you can locate the person who managed you at this company or even a fellow employee, a statutory declaration from them as to what your work was and the major duties and responsibilities of your work could be helpful towards evidencing your work there if you cannot get an official reference letter on letterhead, etc.

Best,

Mark Northam


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## Syaz

MarkNortham said:


> Hi nep12 -
> 
> Any specific questions about the visa? The key with the 887 usually is making sure you meet all the prerequisite requirements from whatever 4xx series visa you are now on, etc..
> 
> Best,
> 
> Mark Northam


Hi Mark,
I applied for 887 last year, Oct 2013, but I Have n't got my PR yet after almost 10 months. I was just wondering if you had any idea about the 887 applications and the processing time. I have heard they put hold on 887 applications for now but not sure how valid it is.
Any information in this regard is really appreciated.


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## MarkNortham

Hi Syaz -

Haven't heard anything recently, but skilled visas in general have been slowing down considerably in terms of processing time, and that external security checks are extremely backlogged at the present, perhaps due to the large influx of boat arrivals. Wish I had more accurate or detailed news for you -

Best,

Mark Northam


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## Syaz

It's really disappointing seeing how this boats arrivals have been affecting skilled visas. Thanks for your response anyway.


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## Syaz

MarkNortham said:


> Hi Syaz -
> 
> Haven't heard anything recently, but skilled visas in general have been slowing down considerably in terms of processing time, and that external security checks are extremely backlogged at the present, perhaps due to the large influx of boat arrivals. Wish I had more accurate or detailed news for you -
> 
> Best,
> 
> Mark Northam


Just wondering if they generally consider any time limit for finalising a skilled application or it might vary from one case to another? Do you know if there is any priorities in processing skilled visas?
Thanks a lot


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## MarkNortham

Here you go:

Client Service Charter

Best,

Mark Northam


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## mastermind03

any idea how long the 887 applications are taking at the moment?

We filed for an 887 after completing criteria of 475 in May 2013 and havent heard anything yet....what are the timeframes like?

I heard it used to come in a few weeks! its been over three months for us


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## MarkNortham

Several months, if not longer, unfortunately...

Best,

Mark Northam


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## mastermind03

Any idea why its taking so long?
I am on a bridging visa and working on a contract now , difficult to find a perm job on a bridging visa....

i have called the DIAC and the response is very vague and wait and see.....Also what does the allocation date for priority exempt mean? Its been stuck on Feb 5, 2013 for months!

The wait is very painful....What happened to the overnight 887 grants I kept hearing about....


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## MarkNortham

Wish I had better news - DIAC doesn't give firm commitments to any sort of processing estimates these days, and "wait" is the typical response. Hardly a way to plan a life, career, or migration.

For what it's worth, the DIAC client service charter currently quotes 6 months processing time for 887's - see:

Client Service Charter

The "allocation date" is generally the application date of the visas that are currently being processed, ie "we're now processing and deciding applications that were lodged on xx/xx/xx".

Best,

Mark Northam


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## mastermind03

Thankyou Mark.. 

Guess we wait patiently and as you rightly say, put our lives and careers on hold till we hear.....Oh well  we have served the 2 year term, this is the *** end of the waiting.....


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## Liberal Voter

*887 Visa*

Hello,

I have a massive frustration with this as a couple who are 887 visa applicants are buying our house. They applied Feb 14th 2013 after working for 2 years exactly. In Dec 2012 the application time was 6-8 weeks, as of Jan 1st 2013 that changed to "Up To 6 Months" of which it has been 1 week ago. I am of the belief this is due to the boat arrivals and putting pressure on the system. So I have a few questions seeing you are with the department of Immigration and most likely employed via the labour government.

1/ When will these people be likely to get their 887 ?
2/ What will the time frame be once contacted ?
3/ Is there a department where I as a seller I can contact and can get a straight answer on this as we are supposed to be on a trip of a lifetime around Australia after working, contributing as a business owner and now we are eating away at our savings just waiting with no government help available.

Very Frustrating, Chris.


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## jasvir2280

MarkNortham said:


> Hi Szehow -
> 
> If you can locate the person who managed you at this company or even a fellow employee, a statutory declaration from them as to what your work was and the major duties and responsibilities of your work could be helpful towards evidencing your work there if you cannot get an official reference letter on letterhead, etc.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Mark Northam


Hi Mark

This is Jasvir and I am currently on 489 visa I already paid my spouse english fee $4250/- because has not got the functional english. Could u pls advise me that when I will lodge my visa 887 after two years do I need to pay that english fee again that is $4250/-.

Pls also advise me that I could not find the full time job here in regional WA and doing as casual job. Can I show the full time hours in casual job as well.

Thanks

Jasvir


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## Liberal Voter

*887 Vias*

Am I able to get an answer on the above question of mine ?


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## MarkNortham

Hi Chris -

Sorry, I didn't realise you had addressed the question to me. Happy to respond.

First to clarify, I do not work for the Department of Immigration and Citizenship (DIAC) in any way, shape or form. I'm licensed by the government as a Registered Migration Agent, which essentially means I am legally able to provide migration advice in Australia. We do work on behalf of our clients helping them understand migration regulations, and we prepare and lodge visa applications and other submissions, waiver requests, etc with DIAC and correspond with DIAC on behalf of our clients.

Re: processing times, it's my view that the times posted on the DIAC site cannot be depended on in the least. I've just seen too many examples where these estimates are completely wrong, and you can read about them here as well on the forum as people report their successes (and not). DIAC says onshore partner visas are taking 13 months, then someone gets on here and proudly reports he got his in 3 weeks with no special request for expedited handling, and then wonders when others who have been waiting months or upwards of a year get frustrated at the (apparent) unfairness of the system. You have to wonder whether DIAC just picks a few out for expedited treatment just to reduce the "average processing time" down to where it needs to be to meet some sort of bonus or quota.

The frustrating truth is that DIAC gives no solid commitments as to when an application will be processed - no commitments to the applicants, and no commitments to non-applicants like you who may be negatively affected by the delays. DIAC is a monopoly, and they do things on their own schedule, and in most cases when an applicant asks "when", DIAC's response is a form letter about how processing is continuing and they will be notified when their visa decision is made. It's incredibly frustrating, and puts an immense amount of stress and hardship on applicants who find their entire lives in limbo waiting for this massive government bureaucracy to get around to doing it's job.

Chris, I wish I had better news for you. Is the massive influx of boat arrivals swamping the system? Yes, I believe it is. Are the massive increases in visa application fees due in part to the increased costs of unlawful arrivals? Good question. Is the backlog of 1+ years at the MRT a result of this (since MRT and RRT share resources and refugee cases have legislative time limits that MRT cases do not)? I think it's likely.

Happy to entertain any questions and help in any way I can - I'm a business owner too, and this amount of unpredictability isn't any better for your business than it is for mine.

Hope this helps -

Best,

Mark Northam



Liberal Voter said:


> Hello,
> 
> I have a massive frustration with this as a couple who are 887 visa applicants are buying our house. They applied Feb 14th 2013 after working for 2 years exactly. In Dec 2012 the application time was 6-8 weeks, as of Jan 1st 2013 that changed to "Up To 6 Months" of which it has been 1 week ago. I am of the belief this is due to the boat arrivals and putting pressure on the system. So I have a few questions seeing you are with the department of Immigration and most likely employed via the labour government.
> 
> 1/ When will these people be likely to get their 887 ?
> 2/ What will the time frame be once contacted ?
> 3/ Is there a department where I as a seller I can contact and can get a straight answer on this as we are supposed to be on a trip of a lifetime around Australia after working, contributing as a business owner and now we are eating away at our savings just waiting with no government help available.
> 
> Very Frustrating, Chris.


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## Liberal Voter

MarkNortham said:


> Hi Chris -
> 
> Sorry, I didn't realise you had addressed the question to me. Happy to respond.
> 
> First to clarify, I do not work for the Department of Immigration and Citizenship (DIAC) in any way, shape or form. I'm licensed by the government as a Registered Migration Agent, which essentially means I am legally able to provide migration advice in Australia. We do work on behalf of our clients helping them understand migration regulations, and we prepare and lodge visa applications and other submissions, waiver requests, etc with DIAC and correspond with DIAC on behalf of our clients.
> 
> Re: processing times, it's my view that the times posted on the DIAC site cannot be depended on in the least. I've just seen too many examples where these estimates are completely wrong, and you can read about them here as well on the forum as people report their successes (and not). DIAC says onshore partner visas are taking 13 months, then someone gets on here and proudly reports he got his in 3 weeks with no special request for expedited handling, and then wonders when others who have been waiting months or upwards of a year get frustrated at the (apparent) unfairness of the system. You have to wonder whether DIAC just picks a few out for expedited treatment just to reduce the "average processing time" down to where it needs to be to meet some sort of bonus or quota.
> 
> The frustrating truth is that DIAC gives no solid commitments as to when an application will be processed - no commitments to the applicants, and no commitments to non-applicants like you who may be negatively affected by the delays. DIAC is a monopoly, and they do things on their own schedule, and in most cases when an applicant asks "when", DIAC's response is a form letter about how processing is continuing and they will be notified when their visa decision is made. It's incredibly frustrating, and puts an immense amount of stress and hardship on applicants who find their entire lives in limbo waiting for this massive government bureaucracy to get around to doing it's job.
> 
> Chris, I wish I had better news for you. Is the massive influx of boat arrivals swamping the system? Yes, I believe it is. Are the massive increases in visa application fees due in part to the increased costs of unlawful arrivals? Good question. Is the backlog of 1+ years at the MRT a result of this (since MRT and RRT share resources and refugee cases have legislative time limits that MRT cases do not)? I think it's likely.
> 
> Happy to entertain any questions and help in any way I can - I'm a business owner too, and this amount of unpredictability isn't any better for your business than it is for mine.
> 
> Hope this helps -
> 
> Best,
> 
> Mark Northam


Thanks for the info Mark,

As I said Im just trying to get information to keep our lives going in the direction that we intended. Its just a flawed system with not a lot of help for people whom are unfortunately in our situation.
I thought a good place to start would be a local member (Sophie Mirabella) and the other candidates in our area with the pending election but not surprising not one of them have even bothered to email me back.
In the end we will just sit ad save our pennies best we can.
Thanks again.
Chris & Michelle.


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## muraliganesh

Hi mark..

I applied for 887 visa, and i had done a very small mistake on form 80, which i filled scanned and uploaded to my online application.

1. form 80 " I am applying to visa to travel Australia" - I ticked on Migrant by mistake instead of ticking "Permanent Residence"

2. when i applied for my 475 3 years ago, i dont have any accurate Date of Birth of my parents, so i put some approximated dates ( which i dont remember now), now my parents have got their passports and now i submitted real DOB which is on their current passport. ( do you think, if data missmatch happens to my earlier 475 visa and this 887 visa will it affect my processing anyway...?)

I am really stressed, could you please suggest should i do any thing now..?, 

Thanks


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## Liberal Voter

*Contact*



MarkNortham said:


> Hi Chris -
> 
> Sorry, I didn't realise you had addressed the question to me. Happy to respond.
> 
> First to clarify, I do not work for the Department of Immigration and Citizenship (DIAC) in any way, shape or form. I'm licensed by the government as a Registered Migration Agent, which essentially means I am legally able to provide migration advice in Australia. We do work on behalf of our clients helping them understand migration regulations, and we prepare and lodge visa applications and other submissions, waiver requests, etc with DIAC and correspond with DIAC on behalf of our clients.
> 
> Re: processing times, it's my view that the times posted on the DIAC site cannot be depended on in the least. I've just seen too many examples where these estimates are completely wrong, and you can read about them here as well on the forum as people report their successes (and not). DIAC says onshore partner visas are taking 13 months, then someone gets on here and proudly reports he got his in 3 weeks with no special request for expedited handling, and then wonders when others who have been waiting months or upwards of a year get frustrated at the (apparent) unfairness of the system. You have to wonder whether DIAC just picks a few out for expedited treatment just to reduce the "average processing time" down to where it needs to be to meet some sort of bonus or quota.
> 
> The frustrating truth is that DIAC gives no solid commitments as to when an application will be processed - no commitments to the applicants, and no commitments to non-applicants like you who may be negatively affected by the delays. DIAC is a monopoly, and they do things on their own schedule, and in most cases when an applicant asks "when", DIAC's response is a form letter about how processing is continuing and they will be notified when their visa decision is made. It's incredibly frustrating, and puts an immense amount of stress and hardship on applicants who find their entire lives in limbo waiting for this massive government bureaucracy to get around to doing it's job.
> 
> Chris, I wish I had better news for you. Is the massive influx of boat arrivals swamping the system? Yes, I believe it is. Are the massive increases in visa application fees due in part to the increased costs of unlawful arrivals? Good question. Is the backlog of 1+ years at the MRT a result of this (since MRT and RRT share resources and refugee cases have legislative time limits that MRT cases do not)? I think it's likely.
> 
> Happy to entertain any questions and help in any way I can - I'm a business owner too, and this amount of unpredictability isn't any better for your business than it is for mine.
> 
> Hope this helps -
> 
> Best,
> 
> Mark Northam


Hi Mark and readers,

Just a note to say our house buyers have been contacted via DIAC Brisbane office Sept 2nd. 
The time frame since they applied for their visa on Feb 14th has been approx. 6 months & 3 weeks.
They have all their paperwork that was asked of them done and have been told if they do not hear from DIAC by Sept 28th to call them.
Hopefully this is now a formality as they are not considered a difficult case and we will cross our fingers and keep you posted.

Regards, Chris & Michelle.


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## muraliganesh

Hi Mark...

Could you please answer my question..?

Thank you
Murali Ganesh



muraliganesh said:


> Hi mark..
> 
> I applied for 887 visa, and i had done a very small mistake on form 80, which i filled scanned and uploaded to my online application.
> 
> 1. form 80 " I am applying to visa to travel Australia" - I ticked on Migrant by mistake instead of ticking "Permanent Residence"
> 
> 2. when i applied for my 475 3 years ago, i dont have any accurate Date of Birth of my parents, so i put some approximated dates ( which i dont remember now), now my parents have got their passports and now i submitted real DOB which is on their current passport. ( do you think, if data missmatch happens to my earlier 475 visa and this 887 visa will it affect my processing anyway...?)
> 
> I am really stressed, could you please suggest should i do any thing now..?,
> 
> Thanks


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## zeshan

Hi Mark,

I need infomation, currently I am on 489 Visa (Family Sponsored) and living in Melbourne metropolitan area, I am driving Taxi on full time basis while looking for my professional field job i.e. IT. My question is for 1 year work, can this taxi driving be shown as one year work, if yes then in this case what documents do I need to prepare to proof my this work as this is kind of self employed. Except this I am planning to start my own IT business and I have registered an IT company, but this is also a self employed, so how can I proof both of these works as 1 year work ?

Waiting for your response.

Thanks


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## MarkNortham

Hi Zeshan -

Thanks for the question. Self-employed work can be difficult to prove - typically you need some sort of documents related to your clients/customers that show evidence of the business transactions such as contracts or invoices. Additionally, tax information showing the level of income, etc can be helpful, but often tax info by itself can not be enough in self-employed cases. I would imagine in your business you have some sort of a daily log you need to keep for legal purposes, etc - this might be enough when combined with some sort of financial records evidencing the income for each day, etc so the two can be used together to show income.

Hope this helps -

Best,

Mark Northam


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## muraliganesh

Hi Mark..,

Could you please give me some advise, your reply would be a great help for me

Thanks



muraliganesh said:


> Hi mark..
> 
> I applied for 887 visa, and i had done a very small mistake on form 80, which i filled scanned and uploaded to my online application.
> 
> 1. form 80 " I am applying to visa to travel Australia" - I ticked on Migrant by mistake instead of ticking "Permanent Residence"
> 
> 2. when i applied for my 475 3 years ago, i dont have any accurate Date of Birth of my parents, so i put some approximated dates ( which i dont remember now), now my parents have got their passports and now i submitted real DOB which is on their current passport. ( do you think, if data missmatch happens to my earlier 475 visa and this 887 visa will it affect my processing anyway...?)
> 
> I am really stressed, could you please suggest should i do any thing now..?,
> 
> Thanks


----------



## MarkNortham

Hi Muraliganesh -

I would suggest writing a simple letter clarifying these 2 points just as you have and uploading that to your application. You can say that on your 475 application that you estimated the date of birth based on the best information you had at the time, but now have been able to confirm the exact dates of birth and have included them. I would avoid using the word "real" date of birth (since the alternative to "real" is "fake") and just let them know that last time you estimated based on the best information available.

There is a DIAC form to submit when you have incorrect information, but this type of an issue usually does not raise to the level of having to lodge a formal "incorrect information" form, however in some cases the case officer will ask you to fill out one of these.

Hope this helps -

Best,

Mark Northam


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## muraliganesh

Hi Mark..,

Thanks for your reply.., it gave me a great relief..

I will wait and see, if case officer raise any questions then i will fill the sheet.

Once again thankyou very much for your help...



MarkNortham said:


> Hi Muraliganesh -
> 
> I would suggest writing a simple letter clarifying these 2 points just as you have and uploading that to your application. You can say that on your 475 application that you estimated the date of birth based on the best information you had at the time, but now have been able to confirm the exact dates of birth and have included them. I would avoid using the word "real" date of birth (since the alternative to "real" is "fake") and just let them know that last time you estimated based on the best information available.
> 
> There is a DIAC form to submit when you have incorrect information, but this type of an issue usually does not raise to the level of having to lodge a formal "incorrect information" form, however in some cases the case officer will ask you to fill out one of these.
> 
> Hope this helps -
> 
> Best,
> 
> Mark Northam


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## Aka Jordon

Hi Mark ,

I found this forum very informative . 

I have little confusion regarding SC 887 .
currently I am in SC 487 which was granted on 25 Oct 2011 so I will be completing my 2 yrs of stay here in VIC ( Family sponsored ) on 25 OCT 2013 but during this 2 yrs of duration i had a 3 months of overseas holiday .

Will I be still eligible to apply SC 887 on 26 OCT 2013 or should I have to wait 3 more months extra ??? How does the 2 yrs of duration works ??

Secondly During this 2 yrs of duration i have worked 11 months fulltime then had 5 months gap due to overseas holiday then again worked fulltime so I have altogether 15 months fulltime Job but its not continues .. 

Will i be still eligile to apply SC 887 or has to be continues 12 months Fulltime job ??

Thanks in advance


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## MarkNortham

Hi Aka Jordan -

Excellent question. Whereas many skilled visas consider 20 or more hours per week as "full time", the 887 visa is different and requires full time work to be 35 or more hours per week. If the number of hours per week is between 30 and 35 and that is the normal full-time load for a particular profession, there's room to argue that it is still full time. Less than 30 hours will generally not qualify as full time for purposes of the 887 visa. Also, some people don't realise it but once your Bridging Visa for your 487 activates, work during that time can also count towards the 12 months - that is, work you did on the BV before the 487 was granted.

Getting to your question, normally in Australia workers receive 1 month (4 weeks) of paid leave each year. Any further leave, if paid, could be argued as continued employment - whether DIAC would accept that or not would be up to the case officer. So 12 months of work is required under the 887, however it need NOT be continuous - you can add together separated periods of full time employment, so based on what you said it sounds like you're OK for the 12 month employment requirement.

Turning to the residence requirements of 2 years, if a person took 4 weeks off each year for their annual leave to go on holiday overseas, that would not count against the residence requirement. My view is that any time beyond 2 months during the 24 months might be pushing things a bit - if you want to claim 3 months in that period, you might want to put together a submission (written document) to DIAC explaining why the time was necessary, etc. 

Hope this helps -

Best,

Mark Northam


----------



## nep12

HI mark,

my lease agreement has been expired but My real estate agent gave me Tenancy certificate . my question is can Tenancy Certificate be use as a repalcement of Lease agreement for the proof of residency for Visa 887.

Thank you


----------



## MarkNortham

Hi Nep12 -

Probably, depending on what it says (ie, who lived there, dates they lived there, etc).

Best,

Mark Northam


----------



## nep12

MarkNortham said:


> Hi Nep12 -
> 
> Probably, depending on what it says (ie, who lived there, dates they lived there, etc).
> 
> Best,
> 
> Mark Northam


Hi Mark,

Thanks for your reply,

well in letter is says:

We confirm that A ,B and C(me)) are tenants with D(real estate agent) at

E(residential address).

Rental rate -----------

Date of Tenancy from to

So , can you please advise me either i can use this tenancy certificate for 887 visa to replace lease agreement.

Thank you


----------



## mel36

Hi Mark,

I have been following this thread and i have a question regarding 12 months full time work requirement in designated area. i hope you will guide me through my question :

I am secondary applicant for 4xx family sponsored visa holder and my wife is primary visa holder . To fulfill full time work requirement , i(secondary applicant) have worked in hospitality as a full time for 13 months and my wife( Primary Applicant) worked for 16 months to fulfill full time working hours combining two jobs , one is Part time and another is Casual in nursing home but in actual her skilled occupation is in I.T. as far as i know the work is not necessary to be in skilled occupation for visa 887, please correct me if i am wrong.

Can you please suggest me from which side( from secondary applicant or primary applicant) its good to submit documents for the 12 months fulltime working requirements for visa 887.

Hope to get reply.

thank you


----------



## MarkNortham

Hi Nep12 -

Sounds to me like that might be acceptable to DIAC, but the case officer would be the final judge. 

Best,

Mark Northam


----------



## MarkNortham

Hi Mel36 -

Please find DIAC policy below - note that multiple part-time jobs can be combined together and that employment in an occupation other than the nominated occupation will be "considered" (that's no guarantee they will approve it, however) -

Hope this helps -

Best,

Mark Northam

_5.2 What type of work is required
There is no restriction on the type of work required to satisfy 887.213. While it is intended that visa holders selected on the basis of their skills and work in Australia using those skills, work in an occupation other than the occupation nominated in the provisional GSM visa application will be considered.

Similarly, an applicant may have been working for an employer, on a contractual basis or have been self employed.

The key requirement is the amount of work undertaken. To meet the requirements for the grant of a visa 887, the main applicant must have been working full-time. This differs from most other GSM visas that require that the applicant has been employed in a skilled occupation for at minimum of 20 hours a week.

5.3 Full-time work
The Australian Bureau of Statistics states that a full-time position is one in which normally requires 35 hours a week work. There may be some occupations, however, where a full-time position involves less than 35 hours a week. Officers should use their judgment in such circumstances, but under policy, any work for less than 30 hours a week could not be regarded as full-time.

Where necessary, a visa 887 applicant may "add together" the hours worked in two part-time or casual positions to meet the full-time work requirement.

Applicants who have been working on a contractual basis or are self-employed, in particular, will need to ensure they have evidence that supports their claim that they have worked for at least 35 hours a week._


----------



## mel36

MarkNortham said:


> Hi Mel36 -
> 
> Please find DIAC policy below - note that multiple part-time jobs can be combined together and that employment in an occupation other than the nominated occupation will be "considered" (that's no guarantee they will approve it, however) -
> 
> Hope this helps -
> 
> Best,
> 
> Mark Northam
> 
> _5.2 What type of work is required
> There is no restriction on the type of work required to satisfy 887.213. While it is intended that visa holders selected on the basis of their skills and work in Australia using those skills, work in an occupation other than the occupation nominated in the provisional GSM visa application will be considered.
> 
> Similarly, an applicant may have been working for an employer, on a contractual basis or have been self employed.
> 
> The key requirement is the amount of work undertaken. To meet the requirements for the grant of a visa 887, the main applicant must have been working full-time. This differs from most other GSM visas that require that the applicant has been employed in a skilled occupation for at minimum of 20 hours a week.
> 
> 5.3 Full-time work
> The Australian Bureau of Statistics states that a full-time position is one in which normally requires 35 hours a week work. There may be some occupations, however, where a full-time position involves less than 35 hours a week. Officers should use their judgment in such circumstances, but under policy, any work for less than 30 hours a week could not be regarded as full-time.
> 
> Where necessary, a visa 887 applicant may "add together" the hours worked in two part-time or casual positions to meet the full-time work requirement.
> 
> Applicants who have been working on a contractual basis or are self-employed, in particular, will need to ensure they have evidence that supports their claim that they have worked for at least 35 hours a week._


hi mark,

thanks for your reply,

So from your reply, i am bit worried that i might will not be eligible for 887 visa ,because i am not able to find job in nominated occupation , is there any cases that 887 visa has been rejected due to not working in nominated occupation.

thanks


----------



## MarkNortham

Hi Mel -

The Migration Regulations 1994 do not require that your work be in the nominated occupation - that's what I would argue if DIAC had an issue with that. I don't know of any cases where an 887 was refused due to occupation, but a detailed MRT search might yield some results in that area.

Here's the regulation:

_887.213
The applicant must have worked full-time in a specified regional area for a total of at least 1 year as the holder of 1 or more of the visas mentioned in clause 887.212._

Best,

Mark Northam


----------



## Aka Jordon

MarkNortham said:


> Hi Aka Jordan -
> 
> Excellent question. Whereas many skilled visas consider 20 or more hours per week as "full time", the 887 visa is different and requires full time work to be 35 or more hours per week. If the number of hours per week is between 30 and 35 and that is the normal full-time load for a particular profession, there's room to argue that it is still full time. Less than 30 hours will generally not qualify as full time for purposes of the 887 visa. Also, some people don't realise it but once your Bridging Visa for your 487 activates, work during that time can also count towards the 12 months - that is, work you did on the BV before the 487 was granted.
> 
> Getting to your question, normally in Australia workers receive 1 month (4 weeks) of paid leave each year. Any further leave, if paid, could be argued as continued employment - whether DIAC would accept that or not would be up to the case officer. So 12 months of work is required under the 887, however it need NOT be continuous - you can add together separated periods of full time employment, so based on what you said it sounds like you're OK for the 12 month employment requirement.
> 
> Turning to the residence requirements of 2 years, if a person took 4 weeks off each year for their annual leave to go on holiday overseas, that would not count against the residence requirement. My view is that any time beyond 2 months during the 24 months might be pushing things a bit - if you want to claim 3 months in that period, you might want to put together a submission (written document) to DIAC explaining why the time was necessary, etc.
> 
> Hope this helps -
> 
> Best,
> 
> Mark Northam


 Thank you very much Mark .

I really appreciate your time and words , thanks for solving my confusion ..

You have a good day !!!


----------



## zeshan

Hi Mark,

Thanks for answering my question, in cotinuation of my previous question I said I am driving Taxi as well, If my Taxi owner provides me a letter stating that XXX person (i.e. myself) is driving Taxi with US since this number of time. 

Would that latter from my Taxi Depot plus my Tax Statements will be acceptable to DIAC to count as one year work experience ?

In Taxi driving I had to use dispatch system provided by Taxi Company to login and log off, each shift is of 12 hrs and I am driving 5 shifts i.e. 12x5=60hrs per week work. In Taxi I also have to Login to the Victorian Taxi Directorate EFTPOS Terminal, I have to logout at the end of my sift, that EFTPOS also prints out a end shift report with login and logout timings, If I keep a copy of every end shift and present to DIAC as proof of work, would those be also acceptable to DIAC as proof of work ?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## zeshan

Thanks Mark....



MarkNortham said:


> Hi Zeshan -
> 
> Thanks for the question. Self-employed work can be difficult to prove - typically you need some sort of documents related to your clients/customers that show evidence of the business transactions such as contracts or invoices. Additionally, tax information showing the level of income, etc can be helpful, but often tax info by itself can not be enough in self-employed cases. I would imagine in your business you have some sort of a daily log you need to keep for legal purposes, etc - this might be enough when combined with some sort of financial records evidencing the income for each day, etc so the two can be used together to show income.
> 
> Hope this helps -
> 
> Best,
> 
> Mark Northam


----------



## MarkNortham

Hi Zeshan -

The final decision as to whether to accept evidence of paid employment rests with DIAC and your case officer, however based on the information you've provided, I think there is a good chance that the combination of the evidence you mentioned would satisfy DIAC. Another factor is your relationship to the ABN that is paying you - if you are self employed (ie, you own the ABN - the ABN Is a company controlled by you or refers to you as a sole trader) then they may want additional information depending on the circumstances. But again, it seems like what you have to show at this point would likely be sufficient.

Hope this helps -

Best,

Mark Northam



zeshan said:


> Hi Mark,
> 
> Thanks for answering my question, in cotinuation of my previous question I said I am driving Taxi as well, If my Taxi owner provides me a letter stating that XXX person (i.e. myself) is driving Taxi with US since this number of time.
> 
> Would that latter from my Taxi Depot plus my Tax Statements will be acceptable to DIAC to count as one year work experience ?
> 
> In Taxi driving I had to use dispatch system provided by Taxi Company to login and log off, each shift is of 12 hrs and I am driving 5 shifts i.e. 12x5=60hrs per week work. In Taxi I also have to Login to the Victorian Taxi Directorate EFTPOS Terminal, I have to logout at the end of my sift, that EFTPOS also prints out a end shift report with login and logout timings, If I keep a copy of every end shift and present to DIAC as proof of work, would those be also acceptable to DIAC as proof of work ?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


----------



## MMH

Hi Mark
I have applied for 887 from 475 recently. Adelaide GSM team13 has contacted me few days ago asking for form 80 and 1221. Now I don't understand how to fill up form 1221 as most of the questions are not relevant to me. Again what would be the answer of 'Have you previously held an Australian visa?' (my current visa was granted in 2010). During my online application there was a similar question in character assessment section saying 'If you have previously held an Australian visa to travel to Australia give details, I thought they were asking about my 475 so I mentioned that one. Did I make any mistake? If so how to correct it?


----------



## jackie112

Hi Mark,

Could you please let me know where the DIAC policy you mentioned below is from? I did a lot of search without success. I am on visa 475 and concerned about the work condition especially whether a casual job is valid. Appreciate your time and help.

Thanks, Jackie.



MarkNortham said:


> Hi Mel36 -
> 
> _5.2 What type of work is required
> There is no restriction on the type of work required to satisfy 887.213. While it is intended that visa holders selected on the basis of their skills and work in Australia using those skills, work in an occupation other than the occupation nominated in the provisional GSM visa application will be considered.
> 
> Similarly, an applicant may have been working for an employer, on a contractual basis or have been self employed.
> 
> The key requirement is the amount of work undertaken. To meet the requirements for the grant of a visa 887, the main applicant must have been working full-time. This differs from most other GSM visas that require that the applicant has been employed in a skilled occupation for at minimum of 20 hours a week.
> 
> 5.3 Full-time work
> The Australian Bureau of Statistics states that a full-time position is one in which normally requires 35 hours a week work. There may be some occupations, however, where a full-time position involves less than 35 hours a week. Officers should use their judgment in such circumstances, but under policy, any work for less than 30 hours a week could not be regarded as full-time.
> 
> Where necessary, a visa 887 applicant may "add together" the hours worked in two part-time or casual positions to meet the full-time work requirement.
> 
> Applicants who have been working on a contractual basis or are self-employed, in particular, will need to ensure they have evidence that supports their claim that they have worked for at least 35 hours a week._


----------



## MarkNortham

Hi Jackie -

The excerpt I posted is from the DIBP (formerly DIAC) Procedures Advice Manual 3 (aka PAM3) which is an internal publication that DIBP case officers use to interpret immigration law and regulations. It's available in a number of libraries in Australia online (it's an online service only, no hardcopy available I know of) and is updated frequently. Agents are required to have a subscription to LEGENDCOM from DIBP which includes PAM3 as well as migration regulations and laws, and this subscription is what is available at some libraries. Here's the link, although it's expensive ($800/yr):

LEGENDcom

Hope this helps -

Best,

Mark Northam


----------



## akn274

Hi Mark,

Could you please let me know the IELTS requirement for transferring from 475 to 887 visa. In the immigration web site, there is nothing mentioned about IELTS requirement for primary/main applicant but when I lodge my application for 887 the document checklist says IELTS is required. In some other blogs it is mentioned that the checklist after submitting the application is a standard template. Please put your valuable comments. My IELTS for 475 visa is expired by now.

Thank you!
Akn274


----------



## MarkNortham

Hi -

I don't know of any specific IELTS requirement for the 887 visa as evidencing English for the primary applicant is part of the previous provisional skilled visa series (4xx series). There is a requirement for any secondary applicants who are 18 years of age and older to prove Functional English to avoid a charge for that, and IELTS is one way (but not the only way) of evidencing that.

Hope this helps -

Best,

Mark Northam


----------



## akn274

MarkNortham said:


> Hi -
> 
> I don't know of any specific IELTS requirement for the 887 visa as evidencing English for the primary applicant is part of the previous provisional skilled visa series (4xx series). There is a requirement for any secondary applicants who are 18 years of age and older to prove Functional English to avoid a charge for that, and IELTS is one way (but not the only way) of evidencing that.
> 
> Hope this helps -
> 
> Best,
> 
> Mark Northam


Thank you Mark for the information.


----------



## jackie112

MarkNortham said:


> Hi Jackie -
> 
> The excerpt I posted is from the DIBP (formerly DIAC) Procedures Advice Manual 3 (aka PAM3) which is an internal publication that DIBP case officers use to interpret immigration law and regulations. It's available in a number of libraries in Australia online (it's an online service only, no hardcopy available I know of) and is updated frequently. Agents are required to have a subscription to LEGENDCOM from DIBP which includes PAM3 as well as migration regulations and laws, and this subscription is what is available at some libraries. Here's the link, although it's expensive ($800/yr):
> 
> LEGENDcom
> 
> Hope this helps -
> 
> Best,
> 
> Mark Northam


Thanks a lot for the detailed information Mark. Hopefully the work condition interpretation won't change in a year' time so that my casual job payslips with 35 hours above will still satisfy.

Many thanks for your help, 
Jackie


----------



## Ajaya81

Hi All,

I am currently a 475 Temporary visa holder and at the moment i am in a process of applying the same 475 visa to my wife who is in overseas. But i got bit confused with the details given in the immigration website.
They have mentioned that 475 visa is no more continued and if someone needs to add his wife to the particular visa, he or she has to apply 489 visa. And for that partner should apply filling the PAPER FORM OF 1276.. But i couldnt find any 1276 visa form related to this category. If somebody have gone through this process please advice me. this could be a great help.
Thanks..


----------



## MarkNortham

Hi Ajaya81 -

Applications for the subclass 489 visa must be done online via the appropriate DIBP portal - see: Skilled - Nominated or Sponsored (Provisional) (subclass 489) visa

Best,

Mark Northam


----------



## Ajaya81

Hi Mark,
Thanks for the reply. Yes you are correct-- subclass 489 visa should be applied online. But this is a quite special case. This is a subsequent visa for my wife. So immigration website is clearly mentioned that spouse/wife should apply filling paper form 1276. As well as they have mentioned that there is no online applying facility for this category.You can search that in immigration website" adding family members to 475 visa after the visa has being granted". That details confuses me...

Anyway thank you very much for the reply... I hope I need more details.

Thanks Ajaya81


----------



## MarkNortham

Hi Ajaya81 -

Not sure where you are reading about Form 1276 - don't bother looking on the subclass 475 visa page as that's been replaced by the 489 visa via Skillselect.

Best,

Mark Northam


----------



## Liberal Voter

Liberal Voter said:


> Hi Mark and readers,
> 
> Just a note to say our house buyers have been contacted via DIAC Brisbane office Sept 2nd.
> The time frame since they applied for their visa on Feb 14th has been approx. 6 months & 3 weeks.
> They have all their paperwork that was asked of them done and have been told if they do not hear from DIAC by Sept 28th to call them.
> Hopefully this is now a formality as they are not considered a difficult case and we will cross our fingers and keep you posted.
> 
> Regards, Chris & Michelle.


Just thought I would let forum members know that the buyers of our house got their visas on 1st October so It took 7 months and two weeks.

Regards, Chris & Michelle.


----------



## Iirfan

nep12 said:


> hi all,
> 
> is anybody outthere who is going to apply visa 887 recently,lets have discussion about visa 887


Hi mark 
I've a quick question regarding 887. I am currently working in seven eleven store doing 35 hrs a week. My cronfusion is my payslip which tells my employment status as casual. These casual description in payslip is acceptable by diac or it has to state part time/full time. 
My second and final question is I was granted 489 in August n since august I'm doing 35 hrs will I be eligible by august next year to apply for 887. Awaiting your advice anxiously. Thanks


----------



## Skyhigh

Dear Mark Northam, I have a quick and short question if you please answer will be a great help for me. My spouse passport was first issued in 2010. Passport renewed in 2013. Now confusion is what will be 'Date of issue' for this passport 2010 or 2013 to fill up any other form of DIAC or elsewhere...? Thanks for your co-operation.......


----------



## Iirfan

Dear mark 
I've a quick question regarding 887. I am currently working in seven eleven store doing 35 hrs a week. My cronfusion is my payslip which tells my employment status as casual. These casual description in payslip is acceptable by diac or it has to state part time/full time. 
My second and final question is I was granted 489 in August n since august I'm doing 35 hrs will I be eligible by august next year to apply for 887. Awaiting your advice anxiously. Thanks


----------



## joelunpe

Hello Mark;

I have on my way to 887 as well. I am on my first year of collecting my payslips. Unfortunately I have to work for two jobs but I have little confusing how to count for 35 hours per week thing. My one job pay circle is from Monday to Sunday (7days basic) and the other job pay circle is from Wed to Tuesday (7days basic). Am I be able to combine those two? I am afraid there will be overlapping days etc.

Please kindly answer me. I do appreciate it.

Regards;

Joe


----------



## MarkNortham

Hi Joe -

Probably best to write out a letter or statement to DIBP and explain the two jobs and each of their schedules as best you can. I don't know what you're claiming re: 887 and haven't seen any of your docs so I'm not able to comment on how the jobs line up with whatever you're claiming on the application. But if you're able to explain it clearly in a letter, that should help DIBP case officers understand what you're claiming. My suggestion: don't assume anything - explain it to them clearly and simply.

Hope this helps -

Best,

Mark Northam


----------



## mpbanaag

*Adding Non-migrating Child to 887 application*

Hi Mark,

I just wanted to gather some info. Me and my partner just lodged a 887 application last 18/10/2013. My partner had a newborn baby last 27/05/2013 and we included the child in our application but as a non-migrating dependent. My enquiries are:

1. What would be the implication of this? Is it going to affect our application?
2. Should my partner have updated the immigration while we were 475 visa holders before he declared him to our 887 application?
3. Is Birth Certificate of the Child sufficient evidence to consider he is my partner's dependent?

By the way, my partner signed the admission of paternity document when the baby was born, but actually he is not my partner's biological child. That is why we put him as non-migrating dependent because we are still going to process adoption papers when we get home in Philippines.


----------



## MarkNortham

Hi mpbanaag -

Great questions. re: 1), the only immediate effect I would think here would be that the child will need to undertake a health exam, and if the child fails the health exam that could create problems for the application under the "one fails, all fail" aspect of health criteria for permanent visas. The exam is necessary even if the child is not included on the application (ie, non-migrating dependent). 

2) No requirement to do this, especially as in your case there are unresolved legal matters to be completed (adoption).

3) Generally yes, however given your circumstances are a bit unusual, you may want to write a letter explaining the circumstances to DIBP so they don't make any incorrect assumptions. Non-migrating children always get a close look due to all the issues involved with disputer paternity and guardianship, etc and the government wants to make sure they are looking out for the best interests of the child. Given that, a full explanation of the circumstances would be best. As to any role of the biological father, that would likely be a legal matter to be decided upon locally in your home country. 

Hope this helps -

Best,

Mark Northam


----------



## mpbanaag

Thanks Mark, Do you think the statement should be in a form of STAT DEC? Also, are we going to make it now or should we wait for a C.O. to ask the same?

I have another question. My partner as a primary applicant, wanted to ask if he can already resign from his current employer? Is it a wise move or should we wait up until all employment verification has been done by C.O.?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## MarkNortham

Hi mpbanaag --

Re: statement, not sure it needs to be in stat dec format unless that's convenient for you - stat decs cannot be witnessed unless the authorised party (JP, etc) is on Australian soil, which can mean in Australia or at an Australian embassy. I don't know all the details of your case so I can't advise you on whether you should wait for the CO or not - if the CO accepts the birth certificate and doesn't ask any more questions, then bringing up the fact that the adoption is not complete yet could raise issues. If it's clear from the application that the adoption is not complete and there are steps left to go in that process, then writing now to clarify things might be a better option to avoid confusion and assumptions.

Re: employment, I don't know enough about your situation to advise on that. 

Hope this helps -

Best,

Mark Northam


----------



## mpbanaag

Thanks Mark. Regarding the Stat Dec, I am just confused. Since the child is in the Philippines and we are here in Australia and the one making the declaration is in Australia, should a Stat Dec suffice and be witness here or should a document of declaration be witness in the Philippines, Australian embassy because our child is in the Philippines?

Re: employment, the visa that we are lodging was 887 visa, so currently we are 475 visa holders. My partner already complied with one year requirement and his employer already provided the employment reference letter, signed and stamped. But he wanted to look for another job, while we are on a bridging A visa. What do you think would be the implications? Thanks again.


----------



## MarkNortham

Hi -

Sorry, didn't realise both of you were in Australia - stat dec is fine. Re: finding another job, I don't have enough details on your case to give you any specific advice - if he had a bad ending with his employer and that employer decided to get nasty and not confirm his work experience if asked, that could be an issue, but again, that's sort of out of the realm of migration agent expertise (!). 

Best,

Mark


----------



## aliccp

*Visa 887 - Working hours*

I am on visa 475 & wish to know clear picture of working requirements for visa 887.

Presently i'm working as casual employee in Caltex. [35 hrs a week], [48 hours a week] & sometimes [25 hrs a week].

But the DIAC requirement is minimum 35 a week to qualify for 887.

So my question is if in one year, total average working hours are more than 35 hrs a week (but including the weeks less than 35 hrs a week too)

Will that work to meet the working requirements for visa 887.

Thanks in Advance for help.


----------



## aliccp

I am on visa 475 & wish to know clear picture of working requirements for visa 887.

Presently i'm working as casual employee in Caltex. [35 hrs a week], [48 hours a week] & sometimes [25 hrs a week].

But the DIAC requirement is minimum 35 hrs a week to qualify for 887.

So, if in one year, total average working hours are more than 35 hrs a week but include the weeks less than 35 hrs a week also.

Does that meet the criteria.

Or secondly if I work 18 hrs a week which is equal to 36 in two years. Will that work to meet the working requirements for visa 887.

Thanks in Advance for help...


----------



## aachi

Hello Mark,
I have some confusion regarding the working hours of 887.I know it has to be 35 hrs per week but when i came on my 475 my migration agent told me that I could add up my hours to a one year full time hrs=1820 hrs in a year.Now that I have lived for 2 years in regional WA and have done my hours ,I am not sure if I was guided properly because everywhere I see clearly 35 hrs per week. There are weeks in which I have done 40hrs but then there are some in which I have done 28hrs.Is it possible for me to add up all my 35 hr per week??(even if they are not continues as I have been working for now 2 years)
Please advise me on this matter
Thanks in advance

Aachi


----------



## jasvir2280

Hi Mark,

I have a question regarding visa 887 requirement, as I am currently hold a visa 489 and living in regional state of Australia. I have plan to go overseas for 50 days during the first two years of period. Please advise me if I leave Australia for holidays do I need to stay more than two years in regional area to cover up this holidays period.

Thanking you,

Jasvir


----------



## ali058

Hi Mark.

Thank you for sharing great information here.

I'm on 475 Visa and very close to apply for 887 Visa. I have some questions:

1- I have a new born baby, should I add him to my current visa (or maybe 489 Visa) by form 1022 before lodging my application?

2- I saw in DIAC site that my wife needs to provide Functional English document. I'm wondering because she passed the IELTS requirements when we applied for 475 and we sent the resaults to DIAC before granting visa, Does she need to provide new one (the last one is expired)?
How about myself?

3- I heard that at the time of granting 887 Visa the applicant should be in Australia and if not, the visa will lost.
Is that right?

Thank you in advance,

Best Regards,


----------



## srinath2014

Hi 

Can any body answer for my problems in submitting 887 visa.

I have full filled 1 year full time employment in Regional area and 
lived for 2 years in regional area but I spent first 3 months to find a job from regional area and lived with my friend and I don't have any evidence to prove first 3 months. I only have my friends lease agreement to show.

is it ok to attach my friend's lease agreement as a evidence to prove my living time in regional area.

and how to get rid of this problem....

expecting any comments

thanks

sri


----------



## violets

Hi all, I am new to this group. I have a question to Mark. Hope you can clear the cloud for me. 

I am the main applicant in 475, but I am not able to fulfill the working requirement as I have to take my toddler. However, my husband is self employed and he can fulfill the requirement. Therefore, I would like to know if he can the main applicant in 887? 

Thanks.

Violet


----------



## MarkNortham

Hi Violet -

Yes, it's possible for the secondary applicant on a 475 to become the main applicant for an 887, however be careful to carefully read the regulations on the 887 because there are a number of specific requirements you should make sure you are aware of. For instance, for this visa the requirement for work is "full time work" which is interpreted as 38 hours per week, whereas for many other visas work that is 20+ hours/week is considered full-time.

Hope this helps -

Best,

Mark Northam


----------



## violets

Hi Mark,

Thanks for the prompt reply. 

Besides the full-time hour, what could be other things that we have to watch for? Just to let you know, we intend to submit our BAS too for proof of income vs working hours. As well as letters from our accountant to support us. Will these sufficient to proof? Hope you can shed some lights here. 

Thanks.
Violet


----------



## MarkNortham

Hi Violet -

Thanks for the note - I'm not able to do individual assessments on the forum here as there are too many questions and details that are necessary for a full and proper assessment of your intended application. Am happy to discuss general info here, but with individual applications there are always a host of individual circumstances that need to be considered in order to give proper migration advice - hope you understand. You can get more info on our specific services for clients at our website (see email footer below). There are generally 2 keys to the 887 visa: establishing residency in an approved area, and establishing full time work - the key is to get as much evidence as you can of both of these.

Hope this helps -

Best,

Mark Northam


----------



## violets

Hi mark, thanks again for your prompt reply. 

Violet


----------



## violets

Mark do I need to I form DIAC about changing of main applicant? Thanks.


----------



## MarkNortham

Hi Violets -

Nope - just complete the 887 application with the new applicant info - no need to give them any advance notice of this.

Best,

Mark Northam


----------



## violets

Hi Mark,

Thanks for the answer earlier. 

Another question, I traveled to Perth in 2008 and I was issued a eVisitor visa. The online form (immiAccount) requested the info to be filled but I don't have the visa date. Since it was a piece of paper and i can't locate that paper anymore. Do you think it's necessary to key in the info? Or Can I key in the travel date?

Thanks. 

Violet


----------



## MarkNortham

Hi Violet -

You can try to leave it blank and see if the screen will allow you to do so (this ability is selectively implemented on various questions on various applications and screens) or in some cases the form lets you put in a month/yr without a specific date (ie, Mar-2010) instead of 10-Mar-2010) - if the field is required, consider putting the travel date and attaching a note to the application after lodgement that you used the travel date as you do not have the visa document w/grant date available.

Hope this helps -

Best,

Mark Northam


----------



## violets

Mark, 

Thanks again. 

Is there any firm for me to fill in order to inform the officer? 

Thanks.

Violet


----------



## MarkNortham

Hi Violent -

To inform the officer that you are estimating a date? Nope, but a cover letter listing any of these types of notes could be uploaded and attached after you lodge.

Best,

Mark Northam


----------



## James2013

Hi zeshan,

I wonder how you write the work reference letter? Does it need to be letterhead? I am currently working as a taxi driver and would like the car owner to provide me a work reference letter up the front as I might move to different area later on.

How do you structure such letter?

Cheers
James



zeshan said:


> Hi Mark,
> 
> Thanks for answering my question, in cotinuation of my previous question I said I am driving Taxi as well, If my Taxi owner provides me a letter stating that XXX person (i.e. myself) is driving Taxi with US since this number of time.
> 
> Would that latter from my Taxi Depot plus my Tax Statements will be acceptable to DIAC to count as one year work experience ?
> 
> In Taxi driving I had to use dispatch system provided by Taxi Company to login and log off, each shift is of 12 hrs and I am driving 5 shifts i.e. 12x5=60hrs per week work. In Taxi I also have to Login to the Victorian Taxi Directorate EFTPOS Terminal, I have to logout at the end of my sift, that EFTPOS also prints out a end shift report with login and logout timings, If I keep a copy of every end shift and present to DIAC as proof of work, would those be also acceptable to DIAC as proof of work ?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


----------



## Gabrial887

Hi Mark,

It is amazing the service you are doing for all these people who have migration issues as its really hard to get an answer from DIAC these days...

I have a small issue with my 887 if you could give me an answer i would really appriciate it.I have apply for the 887 last october i met all the conditions living and working etc... the issue is with my wife..She arrived to australia 8 months after i got the 487,and we apply for thee 887 last october as i said earliar and she was the secondry applicant but she has not completed two years she was only in australia for 17 months then.. will that be an issue?does the secondry applicant also need to complete 2 years before applying for 887?

I am already on 885 for three months now and still livinf in a reginal area coz i want to get the PR for my wife.And really worried that all my efforts would go in to vain.. after going through so much hard times livivng in an abroginal community.


----------



## Syd1

*Hi mark*

What's the difference between online application and form 80. Aren't they same. Because they have same question .How many pages will be online application.
Thx


----------



## MarkNortham

Hi Syd -

Form 80 is a deep background form including many questions not included on the online visa application form; the online forms range from 17 to 26 pages, but depending on your answers certain pages appear or don't appear, so it can vary.

Best,

Mark Northam


----------



## Syd1

MarkNortham said:


> Hi Syd -
> 
> Form 80 is a deep background form including many questions not included on the online visa application form; the online forms range from 17 to 26 pages, but depending on your answers certain pages appear or don't appear, so it can vary.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Mark Northam


Thx mark. Do you have sample of online application form.
Thx


----------



## MarkNortham

Hi Syd -

No, they don't provide those - you may want to start an online application and just not lodge it - that way you can see the info that's required, etc. Also you can download a checklist of documents you'll need to provide as evidence here:

Skilled Regional visa (subclass 887)

Best,

Mark Northam


----------



## bhagyesh

*Need a Reall Help*

Hi Mark

Me and my wife is on 475 Visa i am the primary applicant....and my living and working conditioned is going to fulfilled in in Next dec 2014 and then i will apply for 887 . i am realy confused now because

1)i am sending my wife back to india for unavoidable social reason for next 1 year . does it make any difference to my 887 application or she need to be onshore with me at the time of application if i wanted to include her in my application.

2) Secondly i am staying in sharing with my friend and I am getting Electricity bills & Gas bill in my name for residential proof is this fine with DIAC ? for residential proof.. and i have already updated my living address to them

3) and at the time of 475 Visa application for spouse English language requirement i have submitted bonafied certificate from the Uni that she has done her graduation from English medium and they have accepted it so do i need to submit that again at the time of application of 887

it would be really great help for me if you give me your suggestion on my query

Regards
Bhagyesh


----------



## violets

*887*

Hi Mark,

Is there a file size limit to upload in the ImmiAccount? The form 80 is about 20 pages and the size is quite big.

Thanks and regards,
Violet


----------



## MarkNortham

Hi Violet -

Yes - there is a 5MB limit for each file uploaded. You may wish to change the setting on your scanner to scan at a lower resolution, or check out a PDF optimising tool - we use a program called "PDF Squeeze" if PDF files are too big.

Hope this helps -

Best,

Mark Northam


----------



## violets

Mark,

To reduce the resolution still big after added up the 20 pages. 

Will try the PDF Squeeze. Is that a freeware?

Violet


----------



## MarkNortham

Hi Violet -

Not sure, but if you Google "reduce PDF size" I believe there are freeware and shareware programs out there that do the same thing -

Best,

Mark Northam


----------



## Syd1

hi Mark
i work in casual job in one place only but my hr are more than 35 hr per week.i want to know if pay slips of casual work is ok for work evidence in 887 visa.
thanks for. ur help
syd


----------



## MarkNortham

Hi Syd -

The key is that the work is full-time (35+ hrs/week) and paid by your employer. Would have to look at your specific circumstances to give you anything more, but generally speaking there is no requirement that the work by under an employment contract, etc.

Hope this helps -

Best,

Mark Northam


----------



## violets

Hi Mark,

I have submitted the application. But I still have one question here:

It requires to print the name at the back of the photo. But I didn't print any name of the photo just upload photo only. Is that ok? Because I can't delete what had been uploaded. Can I upload another copy of the photo again? It may look weird to have the same photo twice... 

Thanks and hear from you soon.

Violet


----------



## hardtohandle

Hi, All!

May I ask what is the timeline for the approval of 887 PR visa? 

We are on a 496 visa and based on the grant letter, we only have a 1-year window from the time we meet the 2-year residence in the designated area (and 1 year full-time work) before we can apply for 887 visa 

Thank you!


----------



## violets

Hi hardtohandle, 

It said about 6 months. Now they are processing applicants in September 2013. 

Violet


----------



## hardtohandle

violets said:


> Hi hardtohandle,
> 
> It said about 6 months. Now they are processing applicants in September 2013.
> 
> Violet


Thank you so much for the quick revert Violet. That is good news. All the best!


----------



## violets

No problem.

you are refer to this site: Allocation Dates for General Skilled Migration Applications


----------



## Saini_a24

Hi Mark,

I am on 487 visa, i will be eligible to apply 887 december this year.
I am getting married end of this year. I want to include my wife in my 887 application. 
she is British born and we both getting married back in India. 
Does my wife need to be on 487 visa, before i can include her in my application for 887 as dependent. I am very confused about this matter, tried to take professional advise from immigration lawyers, but they are giving me different information.
First one said, I can include her in my application for 887 without getting her on 487 visa. On the other hand, second lawyer said I can not do so, he said to include her in application she must hold 487 or 489 visa.


----------



## Saini_a24

Hi Mark,

I am on 487 visa, i will be eligible to apply 887 december this year.
I am getting married end of this year. I want to include my wife in my 887 application. 
she is British born and we both getting married back in India. 
Does my wife need to be on 487 visa, before i can include her in my application for 887 as dependent. I am very confused about this matter, tried to take professional advise from immigration lawyers, but they are giving me different information.
First one said, I can include her in my application for 887 without getting her on 487 visa. On the other hand, second lawyer said I can not do so, he said to include her in application she must hold 487 or 489 visa.

Thanks for your time.

Regards,
Gurpreet Singh


----------



## Saini_a24

Hi Mark,

I am on 487 visa, i will be eligible to apply 887 december this year.
I am getting married end of this year. I want to include my wife in my 887 application. 
she is British born and we both getting married back in India. 
Does my wife need to be on 487 visa, before i can include her in my application for 887 as dependent. I am very confused about this matter, tried to take professional advise from immigration lawyers, but they are giving me different information.
First one said, I can include her in my application for 887 without getting her on 487 visa. On the other hand, second lawyer said I can not do so, he said to include her in application she must hold 487 or 489 visa.


----------



## Saini_a24

Hi Mark,

I am on 487 visa, i will be eligible to apply 887 december this year.
I am getting married end of this year. I want to include my wife in my 887 application. 
she is British born and we both getting married back in India. 
Does my wife need to be on 487 visa, before i can include her in my application for 887 as dependent. I am very confused about this matter, tried to take professional advise from immigration lawyers, but they are giving me different information.
First one said, I can include her in my application for 887 without getting her on 487 visa. On the other hand, second lawyer said I can not do so, he said to include her in application she must hold 487 or 489 visa.

Thanks for your time.

Regards,
Gurpreet Singh


----------



## shahed

*475 to 887 proof of address*

Hi Mark,

I am currently on 475 and will be applying for 887 on April 2014. I have stayed at regional QLD for last two years and completed one year full time work. I have two questions.

1.My first question is about the proof of address. For first 1 year 2 month I stayed with my cousin and now I am staying at a shared house. I do not have any bills or lease document to show. I am planning to take a statutory declaration from my cousin and my current house owner which will say that I stayed at their place. I will also provide my bank statements that I received by post and drivers licence. Is that going to be sufficient as proof address?

2. will I be able to travel back to my home country for holiday after i lodge my 
application?

Thank you.

Shahed


----------



## shahed

Hi Mark,

I am currently on 475 and will be applying for 887 on April 2014. I have stayed at regional QLD for last two years and completed one year full time work. I have two questions.

1.My first question is about the proof of address. For first 1 year 2 month I stayed with my cousin and now I am staying at a shared house. I do not have any bills or lease document to show. I am planning to take a statutory declaration from my cousin and my current house owner which will say that I stayed at their place. I will also provide my bank statements that I received by post and drivers licence. Is that going to be sufficient as proof address?

2. will I be able to travel back to my home country for holiday after i lodge my 
application?

Thank you.

Shahed


----------



## Tonny_Truong

Dear MarkNorthan,

I am wondering regarding my case as i have been applied for visa 487(Family-sponsorship) and BVA was granted 29-June-2010, however, i was on student visa by the time and then my student visa was expired on 31-Aug-2012.

Since 1-Sep-2012 i was working full-time for 1year and have all evidence documents as tax, payslip and supper as well. In this case, 1year working experience toward 887 will be counted right? 

Untill now, The immigration department still does not process my visa I am therefore currently still on BVA after applied for visa 487(family sponsorship). Am i eligible to apply visa 887 on 1-Sep-2014 ? or i must be wait another 2years after my visa 487(family sponsor) granted?

Your reply will be helped me alot.

Thanks and Best regards,
Tonny


----------



## Theron

Hi Mark,

I've read your many answers and liked the way you write!

I'm on a 489 visa from a state sponsorship and am gonna apply for a 887 soon. Here's a small question that I'd appreciate it if you'd answer.

As is known, there's a visa condition that requires the applicant to work for one year in a designated area. I have actually lived and worked for more than 24 months in a post code qualified rural area but my employer is located in Perth, out of the designated areas, and the address and contact information on the letterhead of my employment letter are all in Perth. Will it matter even though I ask my employer to clarify in the letter that the place where I have worked is out of Perth?

Thank you very much for your time Mark.

Cheers,

Theron


----------



## tahasan007

*887 visa*



MarkNortham said:


> Hi nep12 -
> 
> Any specific questions about the visa? The key with the 887 usually is making sure you meet all the prerequisite requirements from whatever 4xx series visa you are now on, etc..
> 
> Best,
> 
> Mark Northam


= = hi = =

If anyone submitted the online 475 to 887 application with fulfilling all the requirements, "why DIAC are showing the prescribed time frame (3-6 Month) to these application where there is nothing much to clarify ????

Looking forward to hearing from you soon.

Regards,

Mohammad Hossain


----------



## shoaibjaved

*Maximum time out of Australia 887*

Hi Mark !

i am on 475 regional sponsarship visa in WA. I arrived in Bunbury WA on 13 February 2013 and my 2 years residence requirement will be fulfilled on 13 February 2015. I am planning to go for vacations next month for one month to my home country.
My question is that after spending one month, will i still able to apply on 13 February 2015 for 887 visa or i have to wait for one more month to apply for 887 visa because i have heard that if you stay less than 30 days out of Australia than that one month will be included in 2 years time.Please clarify and kindly provide me the source of your info. i shall be very thankful.


----------



## tahasan007

Hi,

I have recently submitted my 887 online application after fulfilling the 2+1 year requirements.

Before moving to the regional area I had to live in sydney for couple of month because I try to get a rental house even try to get a job. But I did not get any. I have all those refusal with me. Do you think it could be a big issue for me ? could you please suggest me what to do ???


----------



## peg

*part time job*

Hello,
I have a question related to my visa which is 475. I've been in Adelaide and I've employed by a company as a permanent part time - 20 hours per week. I wanna know can I work 20 hours per week and when my hours will be equal to full time ( more than 1 year) then apply for permanent or I have to work full time?
Thank you


----------



## norm

hi mark ,
first of all just wanna say thank you from all the members who are getting benefits from your precious advice , you are doing a gr8 job.
i have a question please reply if easy , i am from Pakistan and living in Perth from a long time" 9 years no criminal record ,not even a single parking fine ,applied 887 visa after completing requirements of 475 in april 2013, case officer allocated in nov 2013, all the documents submitted, medicals done,police checks done and submitted, all other requirements have also completed, last update from CO was on jan 2014 regarding how i spent my time during unemployment and education gaps,who supported me financially etc, since then i have no news its july 2014 now.
question is do you see any hurdle in my case ? any idea why this delay might be?and 6 -8 months processing time frame starts from when the CO assighned or once we lodge the 887 application.


----------



## Vicky666

Hi Mark

I have just lodged an 887 visa application and received an automatic bridging visa. Will the department send an additional mail for medicare?

Thanks


----------



## Maggie-May24

DIBP doesn't provide you any documents specific for Medicare. You can take your bridging visa and acknowledgement letter to the Medicare office when you apply for Medicare as evidence that you've applied for a permanent residency visa.


----------



## Vicky666

maggie-may24 said:


> DIBP doesn't provide you any documents specific for Medicare. You can take your bridging visa and acknowledgement letter to the Medicare office when you apply for Medicare as evidence that you've applied for a permanent residency visa.


Thanks Maggie


----------



## RobinCheung1

nep12 said:


> hi all,
> 
> is anybody outthere who is going to apply visa 887 recently,lets have discussion about visa 887


I'm also concerning about this visa because I will get 489...


----------



## sony

HI Mark

I am on 487 visa. my visa granted in may 2013. I started full time job in regional before grant of visa in April 2012. I got hurt at work in July 2013. I am still on work-cover and not seen myself getting better. I am getting paid as full time employee. I want to know
- have i completed 1 year full time work requirement for 887 visa.
- when can i apply 887 or Not

Please
reply


----------



## smahmud_boc

*887 Visa*

Hello All,

I had applied for 887 visa from 475 visa last January,2014.

It has been more than 7 months i haven't got case officer assigned.On May ,2014 Team 13 gave me an email for some documents like Form 80 ,1221.
I gave them the documents.But now on there is nothing.Feeling very anxious.

Is any body has the same situation, can u please give me an advise? I am from Bangladesh.

Regards,

Sayed


----------



## mpbanaag

smahmud_boc said:


> Hello All,
> 
> I had applied for 887 visa from 475 visa last January,2014.
> 
> It has been more than 7 months i haven't got case officer assigned.On May ,2014 Team 13 gave me an email for some documents like Form 80 ,1221.
> I gave them the documents.But now on there is nothing.Feeling very anxious.
> 
> Is any body has the same situation, can u please give me an advise? I am from Bangladesh.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Sayed


Hi, we lodge application last Oct. 2013 and was only assigned with case officer last June 2014. It took us 8 months before being assigned to a C.O. So you need not to be anxious, the wait is really long for subclass 887, as a long as you have submitted all correct documents there shouldn't be a problem. Please be mindful the DIBP is very strict about genuineness of documents. Hope this helps to alleviate your worries.


----------



## mpbanaag

sony said:


> HI Mark
> 
> I am on 487 visa. my visa granted in may 2013. I started full time job in regional before grant of visa in April 2012. I got hurt at work in July 2013. I am still on work-cover and not seen myself getting better. I am getting paid as full time employee. I want to know
> - have i completed 1 year full time work requirement for 887 visa.
> - when can i apply 887 or Not
> 
> Please
> reply


Even if you would satisfy the one year work requirement you are still required to satisfy the two year residence in a regional area whilst holding the 487 visa, looks like the earliest you can apply for 887 would be May 2015. I may be wrong but it would be worth it to seek a migration agent for advice for your circumstances for the work requirement as DIBP are very strict now a days for grant of PR visas.


----------



## smahmud_boc

*887 Visa*



mpbanaag said:


> Hi, we lodge application last Oct. 2013 and was only assigned with case officer last June 2014. It took us 8 months before being assigned to a C.O. So you need not to be anxious, the wait is really long for subclass 887, as a long as you have submitted all correct documents there shouldn't be a problem. Please be mindful the DIBP is very strict about genuineness of documents. Hope this helps to alleviate your worries.


Hey, Thanks very much for your reply.I am feeling very much relax now.But this is very ridiculous that they are taking so long time.I will be keep in touch with you.Thanks again.

Sayed


----------



## shahed

Hi Guys,

I have applied for 887 on 22/04/2014. Seeing above discussions it seems that I shouldn't think about getting the visa within 1 year. I am from Bangladesh. This is ridiculous that they are taking so long for us, where the 189/190 applicants are getting the visa within 3/4 months.


----------



## mpbanaag

shahed said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> I have applied for 887 on 22/04/2014. Seeing above discussions it seems that I shouldn't think about getting the visa within 1 year. I am from Bangladesh. This is ridiculous that they are taking so long for us, where the 189/190 applicants are getting the visa within 3/4 months.


I reckon around November or December you will have your C.O. and if all goes well might have your visa by Jan. 2015 due to quota.


----------



## shahed

mpbanaag said:


> I reckon around November or December you will have your C.O. and if all goes well might have your visa by Jan. 2015 due to quota.


Thanks mpbanaag, I received email from CO this afternoon.  My passport is expiring in January 2015, So I was asked to renew my passport. Bangladesh High Commission is saying they don't do hand written passport anymore, I have to apply for MRP, which will take at least 28 days.


----------



## sony

shahed said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> I have applied for 887 on 22/04/2014. Seeing above discussions it seems that I shouldn't think about getting the visa within 1 year. I am from Bangladesh. This is ridiculous that they are taking so long for us, where the 189/190 applicants are getting the visa within 3/4 months.


Hi Shahed

Can you please provide me list of documents required for 887 visa application.
Me and my husband want to our application our self.

Thanks

Sonya.


----------



## zico777

hello sir. i am currently on 489 regional sponsored visa living in the specified area for the last 16 months.soon i will be applying 887 once the requirements are met.i have two casual jobs and i get different hours each week.sometime 27 hours and some time 37 hours.what is the full time hour? can i count only those week where i worked 35 hours in a week to make total 52 weeks ??or it has to be 52 consecutive week of 35 hours work??please help


----------



## Janani

*Calculating 2 Years*

Dear Sir,

I was sponsored by my sister in Victoria and have lived & worked 22 months in Australia.

But, I lived and worked in Adelaide for 6 months and since South Australia is a regional area, is it possible to claim the 6 months living time to calculate my 24 months living conditions to apply for 887?

So my timeline is
Sponsored by Victorian living Sister 
Adelaide : Lived & worked 6 moths 
Victoria : Lived & worked 16 moths
Total time : Lived & work 22 months in Australia?

Is it possible to apply for visa 887 in 2 months?
or do I need to wait (6 + 2) 8 months?


----------



## Bmike22

*To MARK NORTHAM*

Hi Mark,

I have been on a 457-visa for 34 months, and my visa is expiring in 2 months. My company has started a new nomination for a 12-month 457-visa.

I would like to apply for subclass 887, does it matter if I apply at the same time that my employer is processing my 457?

Cheers,

David


----------



## Maggie-May24

Bmike22 - to apply for an 887 visa, you need to currently hold one of the following visas:
- Skilled Regional (Provisional) visa (subclass 489)
- Skilled Independent Regional (Provisional) visa (subclass 495)
- Skilled Designated Area Sponsored (Provisional) visa (subclass 496)
- Skilled Regional Sponsored visa (subclass 475 or 487) or
- Bridging visa A or Bridging visa B after applying for a subclass 495, 487 or 489 visa.

If you're on a 457 visa, you aren't eligible for an 887 visa. If your employer is willing to sponsor you for PR, you could consider a 186 visa or 187 (if they're in a regional area). Otherwise you need to look at an independent visa such as 189, 190 or 489.


----------



## bhw080809

Hello，
Hello,

I got visa 489 last year. I am living in a specified regional area right now. I understood I have to meet two conditions, including living in a specified regional area for at least two years and working in a specified regional area for at least 12 months, and then I am eligible to apply for visa 887. I have some queries in relation to living and working, I hope to get detailed solutions.

1. I rented an apartment from an agent with a half year lease. After the lease ended, the agent said I did not need to renew the lease and could continue to live there until I decide to move out. So the lease I signed before only shows six months’ renting. Could I provide it as the evidence of living? Do I need to ask the agent to give me a two years lease?

2. The agent said they can provide me with a written statement showing the rent record for a specified period. I could not offer utilities bills, such as gas, electricity and water as rental fee includes all bills. But I am able to offer home internet bill, mobile phone bill and bank statement with my residential address. Is it enough to prove that I have live in a specified regional area for two years?

3. As for working, I am wondering if I have to get a job regarding my major or skill assessment.

4. Do I have to get a contract from an employer in order to prove that I have a full time job in a specified regional area for at least 12 months? If the employer is willing to provide an employment reference including my position, responsibilities, the employer’s contact number and company address, must I have a contract from an employer?

5. The head office of the company is located in Brisbane, I work at its branch in a specified regional area, so is it ok to show that I work in a regional area?

6. Is there any requirement regarding wage of working? I can work in the company for at least 35 hours every week, but the wage is below the Australian minimum wage, so could such evidence of working be accepted to meet the working condition? 

7. Once I meet two conditions, living for two years and working for 12 months, I am eligible to apply for visa 887. After lodging the application and documents, could I move to other places or move back to metropolis? Do I have to continue to live in a specified regional area until I received the visa decision?


----------



## From475T0887

*Applying for Permanet Residence(PR) from 475 to 887*

Hi there,
Right now, I am holding Skilled visa (Provisional) (class VF) subclass 475 (Skilled - Regional Sponsored), application type Person Sponsored (who lives in MEL, VIC). I am having rights to work/live and study in VIC for 3 years. Now, I am eligible to apply for visa Class VB sub class 887 permanent residence. I have gone thorugh various forums on internet but still I have few questions which are unanswered or not clear to me. First of all, I am applying online and filling forum "Äpplication for Temporary Graduate or Skilled Regional Visa". Below are my concerns:

1. 'Place of issue' field under "Details of the current visa" heading:- Would the value be the country name where the visa granted (say when the visa was granted to me, I was in India) or authority who issued the visa (say Adelaide Regional Office)?

2. 'Visa number' under "Details of the current visa" heading:- Is it 10,11 or more digits? Because, on help it says first 10 digits excluding 'V'& 'A' but when while saving error comes. If I ignore 'V' & '<'(becoz I don't have 'A' in my visa number) them my visa number becomes 1234567890P1. What should be my visa number?

3. My wife is having only given name and as per guidelines available on the forum, it should come in family name in the forum and no value for given name. Please confirm.

4. Family Members: As we are already in Australia, would the parents detail come in Non accompanying dependents or other family members?

5. Applicant residential address: As I am having rights to work/stay & study in VIC state. I lived 4 months in Melbourne, VIC & 20 months in Ballarat, VIC. Have I lived more than one specified regional area?

Thanks in advance.

Kind regards,
RC


----------



## krishna1018

*887 IELTS clarification*

Good day and happy new year Mark,

I have read many of your responses in this blog. Great services mate...

IELTS is haunting me for some time as there are various versions of the clarification across many years!

I will be applying for 887 sub class visa based on my existing 475 sub class visa (family sponsored).

I understand 887 is the second stage of getting the PR from 475 sub class. Since my English was already assessed while processing 475 visa hope I need not submit a fresh IELTS. Wanted to seek your guidance as to whether as a main applicant IELTS is required while applying for 887, as it is listed as one of the requirement in DAIC website?

Note: My earlier IELTS validity will expire before my eligible date (after satisfying the conditions of 475 visa) to apply for 887.

Also my wife, as a secondary applicant, proved her English by submitting the proof of her post-graduation credentials while processing 475 visa. Will submitting a copy of the same certificate suffice for 887 or a fresh certificate is required from the institute?

Many thanks for your thoughts..

Regards
Krish


----------



## krishna1018

Hi RC,

Did you get answers for the below questions? I am also in the same situation..

Cheers
Krishna



From475T0887 said:


> Hi there,
> Right now, I am holding Skilled visa (Provisional) (class VF) subclass 475 (Skilled - Regional Sponsored), application type Person Sponsored (who lives in MEL, VIC). I am having rights to work/live and study in VIC for 3 years. Now, I am eligible to apply for visa Class VB sub class 887 permanent residence. I have gone thorugh various forums on internet but still I have few questions which are unanswered or not clear to me. First of all, I am applying online and filling forum "Äpplication for Temporary Graduate or Skilled Regional Visa". Below are my concerns:
> 
> 1. 'Place of issue' field under "Details of the current visa" heading:- Would the value be the country name where the visa granted (say when the visa was granted to me, I was in India) or authority who issued the visa (say Adelaide Regional Office)?
> 
> 2. 'Visa number' under "Details of the current visa" heading:- Is it 10,11 or more digits? Because, on help it says first 10 digits excluding 'V'& 'A' but when while saving error comes. If I ignore 'V' & '<'(becoz I don't have 'A' in my visa number) them my visa number becomes 1234567890P1. What should be my visa number?
> 
> 3. My wife is having only given name and as per guidelines available on the forum, it should come in family name in the forum and no value for given name. Please confirm.
> 
> 4. Family Members: As we are already in Australia, would the parents detail come in Non accompanying dependents or other family members?
> 
> 5. Applicant residential address: As I am having rights to work/stay & study in VIC state. I lived 4 months in Melbourne, VIC & 20 months in Ballarat, VIC. Have I lived more than one specified regional area?
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> Kind regards,
> RC


----------



## pookkf

Hi, does anybody knows what the DIBP Procedures Advise Manual (PAM) 3 says about full time work. The requirement is 35 hours per week. I had been working 35 hours alternate week. Will this be counted towards satisfying the work requirement of 1 year?


----------



## manu123

*pls give priority*

, we couldn't post your question right now.

i have to apply for 887 visa very soon, my question is if my wife and daughter is at overaeas can i apply 887 visa for them as well coz the already have 489 visa nd second if not can i add them non accompanied, they already activates their 489 visa but sue to some circumstances they cant come to aus pls help me in this thank you very much


----------



## kjarewal

*Mr*

Hi friends

I am on bregging visa A since 2010 , as i applied 487 family sponsor in 2010.According to the 887 requirements i have 1 year full time work experiance and i am living in australia from last 4 years . But when i tried to apply 887 online i am having trouble can any one help please.

regards '

karan


----------



## Adubaha

nep12 said:


> hi all,
> 
> is anybody outthere who is going to apply visa 887 recently,lets have discussion about visa 887


Hey there!
What is your current stage on applying for 887?
I am on 489 at Darwin.

Anyone from darwin NT, care for a meet up?
By the way I am from Singapore.

Reds
Kai


----------



## zeshan

Hi Mark,

I got 489 Visa in March 2013 and in March 2015, I have fulfilled 2 years requirement and I have worked 1 year full time. I wanted to apply for 887 visa now, I have a question that when I was on 489 visa I visited my family overseas couple of times and I was out side Australia for about 4 months in total, now in this situation do I have to wait further 4 months to fulfill 2 year requirement or I can apply now as its already 2 years passed on 489 visa. Secondly if I apply now and by the time when processing commence on my application it will be already about 2 years. Because processing will commence about after 3 months.

Your early response will be highly appreciated.

Thanks


----------



## zeshan

Is there anyone who can help me and answer my question ?

Thanks
Regards


----------



## Maggie-May24

Zeshan, if you are looking for a response from Mark it may be best if you post in the Ask Mark! thread at the top of the forum page to make sure he sees your question.


----------



## againstthewind

Thank you for your time and consideration.


----------



## bhw080809

Hi, I have some question about application for visa 887.
i am holding visa 489. I have to at least one year work experience in a regional area before I am going to apply for visa 887. 
i got a full time job in a regional area right now. But I got my wages by cash not by transfering to my bank account. I am wondering if such job can be included in the one year work experience required. could DIBP admit this work experience? Besides information about tax and super, is there any information that i need to provide for supporting my one year work experience if I got my wages by cash?

Thank you so much for your time.


----------



## AusIndo

bhw080809 said:


> Hi, I have some question about application for visa 887. i am holding visa 489. I have to at least one year work experience in a regional area before I am going to apply for visa 887. i got a full time job in a regional area right now. But I got my wages by cash not by transfering to my bank account. I am wondering if such job can be included in the one year work experience required. could DIBP admit this work experience? Besides information about tax and super, is there any information that i need to provide for supporting my one year work experience if I got my wages by cash? Thank you so much for your time.


Whatever the method of payment is, one should always be provided with a payslip. Do you have any? I assume you are paying tax?


----------



## AusIndo

AusIndo said:


> Whatever the method of payment is, one should always be provided with a payslip. Do you have any? I assume you are paying tax?


You can show your payslips and maybe employment contract as evidence???


----------



## naumanazhar

Hi Everyone 

I need some help to apply for visa 887.As i already full fill my condition(8459) and going to apply foe my visa in next week. the only confusion i have is about wife.As she has 489 subsequent visa but she is overseas at the moment.
So can i include her in my application or she need to be in Australia. The other thing i will apply mine get my visa and she can apply later or it has to be with my application.waiting for the guidance.


----------



## Deem

Hi guys, just joined the forum as I will be applying for 887 visa soon. Just a quick question. I have been in Australia for 2 yrs on 475 Family sponsored visa. For Police Check Certificates, do I just get Australian Police Check (for last 2 years) or do I have to get a certificate from my previous residences as well which I had already submitted in my application for 475 visa about 3 years ago.


----------



## Deem

Hi guys and Krish,

I guess regarding Functional English requirement and IELTS, the requirement is only for dependent applicant over 18yrs and not for main applicant as per the checklist on the immi website please correct me if I am wrong.

Regards,


----------



## Shashi.kondaba

*Regarding subclass 489*

Hi everyone

This is Shashikanth and I would really appreciate if anyone help me with couple of queries...

1) I'm currently on subclass 489 with RDA NSW sponsorship. Wondering if I'm allowed to stay in Queanbeyan which is also NSW regional ?

2) I'm I allowed to travel for more than 3 months while I'm on this subclass ?

3) should I have valid ielts to apply for Subclass 887.

Please help me with this.

Thanks
Shashi.


----------



## Deem

Hi Zishan,

I don't think you need to spend another 4 months unless the stay was for over 6 months.

Regards,
Deem



zeshan said:


> Hi Mark,
> 
> I got 489 Visa in March 2013 and in March 2015, I have fulfilled 2 years requirement and I have worked 1 year full time. I wanted to apply for 887 visa now, I have a question that when I was on 489 visa I visited my family overseas couple of times and I was out side Australia for about 4 months in total, now in this situation do I have to wait further 4 months to fulfill 2 year requirement or I can apply now as its already 2 years passed on 489 visa. Secondly if I apply now and by the time when processing commence on my application it will be already about 2 years. Because processing will commence about after 3 months.
> 
> Your early response will be highly appreciated.
> 
> Thanks


----------



## Deem

Hi BHW,

1. If you can get a letter from your agent stating you have been staying at that property from-till and support it with your rent receipts (bank transfers).
2. There is no requirement that you have to work in your own profession. I have a friend who just got his 887 and worked 2 part time odd jobs to complete his 35 hours/week requirement.
3. Please follow the immigration checklist for 887 on their website for the letter from employer and attach your payslips.

Regards,
Deem



bhw080809 said:


> Hello，
> Hello,
> 
> I got visa 489 last year. I am living in a specified regional area right now. I understood I have to meet two conditions, including living in a specified regional area for at least two years and working in a specified regional area for at least 12 months, and then I am eligible to apply for visa 887. I have some queries in relation to living and working, I hope to get detailed solutions.
> 
> 1. I rented an apartment from an agent with a half year lease. After the lease ended, the agent said I did not need to renew the lease and could continue to live there until I decide to move out. So the lease I signed before only shows six months' renting. Could I provide it as the evidence of living? Do I need to ask the agent to give me a two years lease?
> 
> 2. The agent said they can provide me with a written statement showing the rent record for a specified period. I could not offer utilities bills, such as gas, electricity and water as rental fee includes all bills. But I am able to offer home internet bill, mobile phone bill and bank statement with my residential address. Is it enough to prove that I have live in a specified regional area for two years?
> 
> 3. As for working, I am wondering if I have to get a job regarding my major or skill assessment.
> 
> 4. Do I have to get a contract from an employer in order to prove that I have a full time job in a specified regional area for at least 12 months? If the employer is willing to provide an employment reference including my position, responsibilities, the employer's contact number and company address, must I have a contract from an employer?
> 
> 5. The head office of the company is located in Brisbane, I work at its branch in a specified regional area, so is it ok to show that I work in a regional area?
> 
> 6. Is there any requirement regarding wage of working? I can work in the company for at least 35 hours every week, but the wage is below the Australian minimum wage, so could such evidence of working be accepted to meet the working condition?
> 
> 7. Once I meet two conditions, living for two years and working for 12 months, I am eligible to apply for visa 887. After lodging the application and documents, could I move to other places or move back to metropolis? Do I have to continue to live in a specified regional area until I received the visa decision?


----------



## Deem

All dependents have to fulfill the condition of 2 years in Australia.

Regards,
Deem



manu123 said:


> , we couldn't post your question right now.
> 
> i have to apply for 887 visa very soon, my question is if my wife and daughter is at overaeas can i apply 887 visa for them as well coz the already have 489 visa nd second if not can i add them non accompanied, they already activates their 489 visa but sue to some circumstances they cant come to aus pls help me in this thank you very much


----------



## Maggie-May24

Deem said:


> All dependents have to fulfill the condition of 2 years in Australia.
> 
> Regards,
> Deem


I've read posts on other forums that suggest this isn't the case, but I'd suggest the OP ask in the Ask Mark! thread of contact a migration agent to be more certain.


----------



## Deem

Following is an excerpt from the documents checklist on the immigration website..
"Evidence that you have lived in a specified regional area for at least two years. This could include:
•title deeds to your residential property 
•school reports 
•leases 
•utilities bills, such as telephone, gas, electricity that show your residential address.

Evidence that each person who is an applicant for this visa has complied with the conditions attached to their visa while in Australia."

I did talk to an immigration lawyer in Sydney and he had advised that each person (dependant) on the application should fulfill the 2 years requirements else your application will get delayed.

Regards,
Deem



Maggie-May24 said:


> I've read posts on other forums that suggest this isn't the case, but I'd suggest the OP ask in the Ask Mark! thread of contact a migration agent to be more certain.


----------



## Maggie-May24

Deem said:


> Following is an excerpt from the documents checklist on the immigration website..
> "Evidence that you have lived in a specified regional area for at least two years. This could include:
> •title deeds to your residential property
> •school reports
> •leases
> •utilities bills, such as telephone, gas, electricity that show your residential address.
> 
> Evidence that each person who is an applicant for this visa has complied with the conditions attached to their visa while in Australia."
> 
> I did talk to an immigration lawyer in Sydney and he had advised that each person (dependant) on the application should fulfill the 2 years requirements else your application will get delayed.
> 
> Regards,
> Deem


That's not what I've read elsewhere: http://www.australiaforum.com/326937-post132.html

I'd suggest the OP speak with a migration agent to review his exact situation to make sure he's getting the most relevant information.


----------



## Deem

Hi Maggie May. I have confirmed from some other source, and you are right. Dependents do not have to fulfill the 2yrs condition.



Maggie-May24 said:


> That's not what I've read elsewhere: http://www.australiaforum.com/326937-post132.html
> 
> I'd suggest the OP speak with a migration agent to review his exact situation to make sure he's getting the most relevant information.


----------



## nagreddy22

Hi, 
Currently me & my wife on 489 visa & will be lodging 887 visa this December 2015 as well fulfill 2 years stay & 1 year full-time work & I'm the primary applicant. But, the problem is my wife is pregnant & going overseas this August 2015. Can anyone plz tell me can I apply 887 visa for my wife & me when she is overseas. & can the child be applied the same visa before visa is granted..?


----------



## Deem

When applying for the visa, another condition comes up as follows:

"EVIDENCE OF POLIO VACCINATION

Visa applicants, applying from outside Australia, who have spent 28 days or longer in Afghanistan, Cameroon, Equatorial Guinea, Ethiopia, Iraq, Israel, Nigeria, Pakistan, Somalia or Syria, or in any combination of these countries, on or after 5 May 2014 should provide a vaccination certificate as evidence that they have been vaccinated against polio. Failure to provide the certificate may result in delays processing your application. 

This measure is in response to the World Health Organization's declaration of wild poliovirus transmission as a Public Health Emergency of International Concern.

For further information, please refer to..."

I think it also applies to all applicants who travelled to these countries and stayed there for 28 days or more after May 2014..


----------



## Deem

Filed for the visa online last night, and received Bridging Visa A till a decision is made for the 887 visa. For those of you ready to file, do download Form 80 and fill it out for all adults in the visa. It is a pretty long and comprehensive form so do start early. It has to be scanned and uploaded as well.


----------



## Deem

nagreddy22 said:


> Hi,
> Currently me & my wife on 489 visa & will be lodging 887 visa this December 2015 as well fulfill 2 years stay & 1 year full-time work & I'm the primary applicant. But, the problem is my wife is pregnant & going overseas this August 2015. Can anyone plz tell me can I apply 887 visa for my wife & me when she is overseas. & can the child be applied the same visa before visa is granted..?


Before you apply for 887, you will have to add your child in your 489 visa, as the conditions for 489 visa state that you have to inform them of any changes..


----------



## Deem

nagreddy22 said:


> Hi,
> Currently me & my wife on 489 visa & will be lodging 887 visa this December 2015 as well fulfill 2 years stay & 1 year full-time work & I'm the primary applicant. But, the problem is my wife is pregnant & going overseas this August 2015. Can anyone plz tell me can I apply 887 visa for my wife & me when she is overseas. & can the child be applied the same visa before visa is granted..?


Also, I think you can only apply for this when all applicants are on-shore, as you get Bridging Visa A for which the condition is you can not go out of Australia or the visa will cease. But please do check and confirm.


----------



## niasi61

G'Day,

I hold 489 SC Family sponsored Visa and I'm the Primary applicant. and my spouse accompanying me as the secondary applicant...

Now we are planning to apply for 887 SC visa... Questions are...
1 As I'm the primary applicant have some issues in prove the full time hours working for one year. Because I do a part time job and causal Job. So some weeks I don't get enough hours to meet 36 hours/week condition. BUT the secondary applicant meets the relevant requirement for more than 16 Months. Can any one tell with this, do we eligible to apply for 887.

2 And living in Designated Area... for nearly for 2 years... for the first few months I lived with my relatives house. to prove that I only have the Bank statements. Do you think that would be enough to claim those months for living the designated area...

3 For any reason do we need to submit any health insurance details during our stay...??? 

4 I'm bit confused whether, We apply over self OR through a migration Agent. can you please advice which way is safe... 
(if it is safe to apply trough an agent who are the best recommenced agents in Melbourne.) 

Thanks


----------



## Deem

niasi61 said:


> G'Day,
> 
> I hold 489 SC Family sponsored Visa and I'm the Primary applicant. and my spouse accompanying me as the secondary applicant...
> 
> Now we are planning to apply for 887 SC visa... Questions are...
> 1 As I'm the primary applicant have some issues in prove the full time hours working for one year. Because I do a part time job and causal Job. So some weeks I don't get enough hours to meet 36 hours/week condition. BUT the secondary applicant meets the relevant requirement for more than 16 Months. Can any one tell with this, do we eligible to apply for 887.
> 
> 2 And living in Designated Area... for nearly for 2 years... for the first few months I lived with my relatives house. to prove that I only have the Bank statements. Do you think that would be enough to claim those months for living the designated area...
> 
> 3 For any reason do we need to submit any health insurance details during our stay...???
> 
> 4 I'm bit confused whether, We apply over self OR through a migration Agent. can you please advice which way is safe...
> (if it is safe to apply trough an agent who are the best recommenced agents in Melbourne.)
> 
> Thanks


 Hi,

Maybe, your spouse can become the primary applicant for 887 in this case and thus satisfy the requirements, but please do check and confirm this from a lawyer or call 1-800 040 070 (immigration hotline) for confirmation. For residence, I had the same case and submitted bank letter and children school admission record for the first few months.


----------



## heyigoin

*hi*

you have to stay in regional area till the visa decision is made.I have talked this matter couple of days ago with immigration.
ta



Deem said:


> Hi BHW,
> 
> 1. If you can get a letter from your agent stating you have been staying at that property from-till and support it with your rent receipts (bank transfers).
> 2. There is no requirement that you have to work in your own profession. I have a friend who just got his 887 and worked 2 part time odd jobs to complete his 35 hours/week requirement.
> 3. Please follow the immigration checklist for 887 on their website for the letter from employer and attach your payslips.
> 
> Regards,
> Deem


----------



## heyigoin

*hi*

You have to fulfill 8539 conditions which means you can't leave regional area till they grant you pr visa.i had recently spoken this with immigration.



bhw080809 said:


> hello，
> hello,
> 
> i got visa 489 last year. I am living in a specified regional area right now. I understood i have to meet two conditions, including living in a specified regional area for at least two years and working in a specified regional area for at least 12 months, and then i am eligible to apply for visa 887. I have some queries in relation to living and working, i hope to get detailed solutions.
> 
> 1. I rented an apartment from an agent with a half year lease. After the lease ended, the agent said i did not need to renew the lease and could continue to live there until i decide to move out. So the lease i signed before only shows six months' renting. Could i provide it as the evidence of living? Do i need to ask the agent to give me a two years lease?
> 
> 2. The agent said they can provide me with a written statement showing the rent record for a specified period. I could not offer utilities bills, such as gas, electricity and water as rental fee includes all bills. But i am able to offer home internet bill, mobile phone bill and bank statement with my residential address. Is it enough to prove that i have live in a specified regional area for two years?
> 
> 3. As for working, i am wondering if i have to get a job regarding my major or skill assessment.
> 
> 4. Do i have to get a contract from an employer in order to prove that i have a full time job in a specified regional area for at least 12 months? If the employer is willing to provide an employment reference including my position, responsibilities, the employer's contact number and company address, must i have a contract from an employer?
> 
> 5. The head office of the company is located in brisbane, i work at its branch in a specified regional area, so is it ok to show that i work in a regional area?
> 
> 6. Is there any requirement regarding wage of working? I can work in the company for at least 35 hours every week, but the wage is below the australian minimum wage, so could such evidence of working be accepted to meet the working condition?
> 
> 7. Once i meet two conditions, living for two years and working for 12 months, i am eligible to apply for visa 887. After lodging the application and documents, could i move to other places or move back to metropolis? Do i have to continue to live in a specified regional area until i received the visa decision?


----------



## heyigoin

hi there !
i have just applied 887 and the system recommends to fill form80. my question is whether its necessary to submit filled form "form80" or not ????????????
coz one of my friend who just got 887 about a month ago told me he didn't submit "form80" and he said that another friend of ours who got 887 also didn't fill that "form80".anybody who has idea???


----------



## heyigoin

*hi*

if you want to go out after you have applied 887 you will immediately get bridging visa A which means you can't go out of AUS but you can go out by applying bridging visa B, but to apply 887, all the applicants must be inside AUS.
ta



Deem said:


> Also, I think you can only apply for this when all applicants are on-shore, as you get Bridging Visa A for which the condition is you can not go out of Australia or the visa will cease. But please do check and confirm.


----------



## Deem

Hi.. does anyone know how long it generally takes for a Case Officer to be assigned. Someone told me they got their visa in about a month, but I was just checking the immigration timelines on their website and it says they are currently processing applications from 5th January for 887, meaning at least 5 more months... Can anyone please advise.


----------



## heyigoin

*Hi*

Dear friends,
Yes I had also called immigration about how long would it to process the visa, they told me the same but one of my close friend who was on 475 subclass and had applied 887 told me that he got his 887 Visa within 5 weeks.
I think the department is just trying us to be aware of standard 3-6 months time incase they take long.But I'm hoping mine within 8 weeks.
Who knows.
Another question is about stautory declaration, I had recently asked immigration about this and they said its not mandatory to attach statutory declaration form as we already had to tick and declare that in the online form during application. But that friend of mine told me to attach declaration form about of regional stay.
I think I am not going to attach any.



Deem said:


> Hi.. does anyone know how long it generally takes for a Case Officer to be assigned. Someone told me they got their visa in about a month, but I was just checking the immigration timelines on their website and it says they are currently processing applications from 5th January for 887, meaning at least 5 more months... Can anyone please advise.


----------



## Deem

heyigoin said:


> Dear friends,
> Yes I had also called immigration about how long would it to process the visa, they told me the same but one of my close friend who was on 475 subclass and had applied 887 told me that he got his 887 Visa within 5 weeks.
> I think the department is just trying us to be aware of standard 3-6 months time incase they take long.But I'm hoping mine within 8 weeks.
> Who knows.
> Another question is about stautory declaration, I had recently asked immigration about this and they said its not mandatory to attach statutory declaration form as we already had to tick and declare that in the online form during application. But that friend of mine told me to attach declaration form about of regional stay.
> I think I am not going to attach any.


Thanks... I did not attach the Statutory Declaration Form as It was already included in the application.. I however did attach the Form 80..


----------



## heyigoin

Deem said:


> Thanks... I did not attach the Statutory Declaration Form as It was already included in the application.. I however did attach the Form 80..


form 80 is pretty long and complex. I better wait for them


----------



## Deem

heyigoin said:


> form 80 is pretty long and complex. I better wait for them


Most of the data in Form 80 can be copied from the original Form 80 you submitted for 475/489 visa, if you still have it...


----------



## heyigoin

Deem said:


> Most of the data in Form 80 can be copied from the original Form 80 you submitted for 475/489 visa, if you still have it...


Wish I had but I had applied my previous visa through a Migration Agent and haven't got with me.


----------



## rahman12345

Hi mark how are you , 
In last 2 year's I live 16 months at my brother place so 
ll the bill use to come on his name and I use prepaid mobile but landline phone was on his name and it also got my name too in bottom as ATT: 
I kept all the bills for my address proof .also I have all the money transfers 
Transaction of my rent which I use to pay him every month.

You think its enough to proof I live on that address and also I have licence proof .I still have my old expired licence which got old address .

Remaining of the months lived in my own house I rented and I got all bill on my name ..Please reply
Rahman .


----------



## sidhindia

Hi All,
I have some queries in regards to secondary applicant.
I am in 475 family sponsored visa and I will be applying for 887 visa soon satisfying the criteria by staying in designated area for 2 yrs and work for 1 year. My visa is until May 2016.
Moreover, I am getting married this year.
1.Will my partner need to apply for 475 visa or she can directly add the secondary applicant to 887 visa?
2. If she has to apply for 475 visa, should she stay here and satisfy the eligibility criteria? How long does it take to get this visa?
3. Does she require to write IELTS for 475 visa or it can be done in 887?

Eagerly waiting for your response
Thanks and Regards,
Sid


----------



## Maggie-May24

1. Before you can include your wife in an 887 application, she would need to apply for a 489 visa (since the 475 is closed and has been "replaced" by the 489). When you apply for the 887 visa, she can be on the bridging visa issued if she applies for the 489 onshore, it's not required that the 489 already be granted.
2. She doesn't need to meet the criteria of living here for 2 years, etc. I don't know how long the 489 processing takes.
3. Sorry, don't know


----------



## Deem

@sidhindia
3. Your wife would need to prove English Language capability for 489, doesn't have to be IELTS, can just be a certificate from her university that the medium of instruction and studies in University/college was English. If you don't have this, the fee will be considerably higher as then she would have to come and take some language courses here in Australia. You will then use the same for 887.


----------



## Deem

Allocation date for 887 now up to 13 March, as per the immigration website..


----------



## Raj11

Hi Mark,
Is it possible to explain the requirement for 887 visa. Specially what is mentioned in 1136(7) schedule 1. 
887.211-The applicant meets the requirements set out in subitem 1136(7) of Schedule 1.
Thank you in advance.


----------



## Deem

887 Visa Granted 
Applied - 13/05/2015
Granted - 07/07/2015


----------



## Ilesh

*887*

Hello,
I am ilesh and i am new here. I am on 489 visa now and going to apply 887 last week of august 2015. I have few questions 
Can i make immi account now?? 
How to get checklist for 887 ?
I got 489 on jun month 2013 and i moved to regional area dubbo on august first week then i got noc later from regional immigration and i moved adealide on last week of august. When m i eligable to apply 887 first week or last week of august??
Thanks


----------



## sanjeevkathuria

Deem said:


> 887 Visa Granted
> Applied - 13/05/2015
> Granted - 07/07/2015


Congrats Deem...

can you please advise about IELTS/English requirement for secondary applicants?my spouse gave IELTS during our 489 visa...does she needs to provide the English requirement again?you provided any such requirement during your 887 visa?


----------



## Deem

sanjeevkathuria said:


> Congrats Deem...
> 
> can you please advise about IELTS/English requirement for secondary applicants?my spouse gave IELTS during our 489 visa...does she needs to provide the English requirement again?you provided any such requirement during your 887 visa?


Hi Sanjeev,

I just submitted my wife's education certificates and the old IELTS certificate (the one I submitted for 475) for the english language requirement in 887 application.


----------



## Thenick

*Address proof for 2year stay query?*

Hi Guys,

Hoping if someone can help me out here. I got an email from Case officer asking for lease agreement for my 887 (from 475) application. I got lease agreement for 22 of 24 months. but for initial 2 months when I moved here, I stayed at 2 places with no formal written agreement. Rent paid in cash and dont have receipts either. However I do have a letter I received at those 2 addresses. I am unable to establish contact with both the owners where I lived initially for 2 months. I have agreements, bills for remaining 22 months but nothing besides a letter each for first 2 months. Will submitting 22 months proof suffice or anything else i can include for the initial 2 months when i moved here to prove my 2 years regional stay? Should a self declaration help?

Thanks for helping out.


----------



## Deem

Hi Thenick,

I also had rent agreement for only 21 months. However, for the other 3 months, I gave them other letters I had received (Bank, Phone SIM Card, School admission for children). This should do hopefully..

Nadeem


----------



## mnarang

*8539 work condition*

Hi

I have a doubt about the visa condition 8539. Me and my husband are on 487 since 06/2013 and we have been living in a regional area since 01/2014. He is woking full time since 10/2014 and I have been working casual since 06/2014. My question is, since I have worked in the regional area for more than a year am I eligible to work in a metropolitan area now? 
I have been offered a very nice full time job in Melbourne and I'm just not sure if I can work there or not. We are still gonna be living in the regional town.

Also I am the secondary applicant. My visa condition says at least 1 year of full time work in a specified regional area. I have always worked casual, so does that matter a lot being a secondary applicant?


----------



## Alam

*visa 887*

Hi all,
I am a new here with this forum. I am going to apply for the 887 visa in January. I have a question about my 1 year full time job (35 hours per week). I have completed 1 year of full time job (35 hours per week) but it was not continuous, I mean for first 5 weeks I worked for 35 hours and then I worked 2 weeks 31 and 32 hours. Then I worked another 4 weeks (35 hours each). Altogether 63 weeks I worked and 54 weeks are in Full time I mean 35 hours and over. Is it ok for the requirement? Can anyone help me out about my query. Thanks in advance.


----------



## bunbury887

*Adding hours from multiple jobs*

Hi Mark,

Thanks a lot for the useful information. I have another question.

Can you please elaborate the term "add together" further? I am doing two jobs to fulfill my visa condition i.e. 35 hours per week. I am bit confused about how to combine my payslips to make it full time. For example, I worked 52 hours from 1st of May to 15th May on my first job and 22 hours from 4th May to 10th May on my second job which sums to 72 hours from 1st to 15th. Would they consider it equivalent to "two weeks" of full time work? Thanks again

Mohsin


----------



## ipsdhindsa

*Inder*

Hi Mark

I am on visa 489 and completed 2 years in SA with min. one year full time employment criteria and seeking to apply for 887 PR visa. I checked checklist for this visa and stuck with some questions.

1. they said that I have to upload certified copies of original documents.. from which authority I have to get certified/attested these copies ??

2. which police check is required?? National police or federal police??? please send some link to apply online..

3. my elder daughter turned 16 in last November (just 3 months ago), should we get police certificate for her as well??

4. how can I get police check certificate from India as they need if we stayed in any country more than 12 months in last 10 years. we were in India??

5. It get IELTS certificate in April, 2013 and my get the same in Oct.,2013. Are these certificates valid for application or we have to go for new one??

I hope, you can help me with these questions.

Thanks
Inderpreet


----------



## shahab.irt

Hello everyone

Hope everyone is OK and soon to hear good news from any member who applied for 887.
I'm on 489 visa currently and gonna apply for 887 on 18th-April. 

I went through the immigration website and got the check list of documents. Preparing all package but still have some questions:
1. Do I need to provide my Super documents as well for my job?
2. which one is required ANP or NPC? or is there any difference at all as in immi website has mentioned ANP.
3. I've been living in a shared house with other people for 8 months. how can I show my residency proof for that 8 months?
4. To have or not to have the Private health insurance has any effect on the case or irrelevant totally?
5. And more important which is my the biggest concern; my wife which is the dependent in 489 and 887 visa has provided her functional English documents for 489 visa (overall 5.0). and the test result is still valid till 10-May-16. Shall I have any stress about providing new test result or paying installment?

I know that;s too many questions but I;m sure all you guys have been through this process and questions. 
Appreciate all your help 

Good day


----------



## shahab.irt

Hello everyone

Hope everyone is OK and soon to hear good news from any member who applied for 887.
I'm on 489 visa currently and gonna apply for 887 on 18th-April. 

I went through the immigration website and got the check list of documents. Preparing all package but still have some questions:
1. Do I need to provide my Super documents as well for my job?
2. which one is required ANP or NPC? or is there any difference at all as in immi website has mentioned ANP.
3. I've been living in a shared house with other people for 8 months. how can I show my residency proof for that 8 months?
4. To have or not to have the Private health insurance has any effect on the case or irrelevant totally?
5. And more important which is my the biggest concern; my wife which is the dependent in 489 and 887 visa has provided her functional English documents for 489 visa (overall 5.0). and the test result is still valid till 10-May-16. Shall I have any stress about providing new test result or paying installment?

I know that;s too many questions but I;m sure all you guys have been through this process and questions. 
Appreciate all your help 

Good day


----------



## raghu_k

*can a spouse of 489 visa holder apply for 887*

Hi,

Can the spouse who came to australia as a dependent of 489 visa holder apply for 887 if she/he meets all the requiremenst (like stay and work)? (The spouse has 489 which was granted as the dependent along with the main visa).

Thanks to all in advance.


----------



## raghu_k

Hello all,

I am applying for 887, how do I prove 2 year residency requirement for my daughter who just reached 5 years. She was only 3 when we arrived in Australia and my wife has been taking care of her at home. We have not sent her to any playschool/preschool or whatever so far. Please suggest.


----------



## Er.aman

Hi Guys, 
I have filed for subclass 887 on 18th of jan 2016. Yet not received any update on my file. Anybody know how long it will take to get CO appointed fo 887 file.


----------



## Er.aman

@ Raghu- you don't need to show anything for your kid If she's Minor. If you really want to update something for her just update her immunisation record.


----------



## sunilkchopra

Dear Mark and other members,

I have almost same kind of question and below are my details

+I have Family sponsored 489 visa and as per visa I can live/work anywhere in 
+I currently working in Melbourne city and live suburb of Melbourne

My question is regarding the 887

I checked the Border website

and it says

Live and work in specified regional areas
The requirements include having:
lived in a regional Australia/low population growth metropolitan area for at least two years if you were nominated by a state or territory government
lived in a designated area of Australia for at least two years if you were sponsored by an eligible relative
worked full time (usually at least 35 hours a week) in a specified regional area for at least a year while you held your eligible visa
complied with the conditions attached to your eligible visa or your Bridging visa.
You can meet the work requirement if you worked at least 35 hours a week in one full-time job or in two or more part-time jobs. You can include any paid employment or self-employment, and you will need to be able to provide evidence of your employment claims.

My question is regarding the work which is that will I be eligible for 887 VISA.

I am confused regarding the work related obligation. Do I have to work in regional area. Right now i am working in Melbourne city. As in family sponsored visa it is mentioned that I can work anywhere but in 887 for work it says that to be eligible I have to regional area



MarkNortham said:


> Hi Nep12 -
> 
> You have a lot of questions - you may wish to get some professional assistance with this application as there are some issues raised. As I don't have access to your documents, visa or specifics I cannot comment specifically on your case, but here are some general comments:
> 
> 1) The definition of "specified regional area" for purposes of the 887 application for a 489 holder depends on the type of 489 sponsorship = if family sponsored 489, then "specified regional area" means "designated area"which includes all of VIC. If state/terr sponsored for 489, then "specified regional area" means regional/low pop growth areas - the list on your link.
> 
> 2) That evidence seems adequate.
> 
> 3) That evidence seems fine.
> 
> 4) IELTS results are good for 3 years now, so it would depend on the age of the test report.
> 
> 5) No occupation limits on the 489 visa, but the 1 year of work must be full-time and in the specified regional area. Can be for an employer or self-employed. Here's the link for employment evidence:
> 
> 6 - only if they ask for it.
> 
> Hope this helps!
> 
> Best,
> 
> Mark Northam


----------



## SydneyDreaming

Hi Mark,
I have applied for my 887 visa 9 weeks ago (have met all the requirements)...my question is can I travel overseas for one month while the visa is being processed? I still have 2 years validity on my 489 visa so my BVA has not and will not come into effect while I am away. If my 887 visa is granted while I am overseas (very likely), will I lose the visa upon my return? If the answer is yes will getting a BVB before leaving prevent that from happening?

Sincerely,
Julia


----------



## zasuma

Hi everyone, I hope someone can help me with my situation.
My husband and I are both on visa 489 and have been living in regional area since last October. I am a main application.

As I have a job offer oversea for 1 year. I just wonder if I stay in regional area for 1 year and go oversea for one year and then come back to Australia to stay for another year, will I satisfy 2 year stay requirement to apply for visa 887 as a main application?

Or, during the time I stay oversea, my husband will still live in Dubbo and work full-time. Is it possible that he can be main application for visa 887 if he satisfy the requirements after 2 years staying in regional area and work fulltime for one year?


----------



## sachin6690deshmukh

I am living in Darwin NT.I have completed 2 years stay in regional area recently.i have fulfilled work conditions.but in my 2 year stay in Darwin I went to overseas for 3 months.can I apply for subclass 887 now?or do I need to wait 3 more months to apply for subclass 887?


----------



## Argenter

Hello,
Could you please clarify, how the officer calculate the working hours? From the previous posts I understood, that: full time job is 35h/w x 52 weeks/year = 1820h per year apr. So, if I have been working for 18 months and according my payslips spent 1960 hours on site, will I qualify the criteria? I`m a little bit confused, because some times I was on full time position, but some times not. Will the officer consider total amount of hours, what do you think? Thank you!


----------



## Maggie-May24

Argenter said:


> Hello,
> Could you please clarify, how the officer calculate the working hours? From the previous posts I understood, that: full time job is 35h/w x 52 weeks/year = 1820h per year apr. So, if I have been working for 18 months and according my payslips spent 1960 hours on site, will I qualify the criteria? I`m a little bit confused, because some times I was on full time position, but some times not. Will the officer consider total amount of hours, what do you think? Thank you!


You need to provide evidence of 52 weeks where you worked at least 35 hours. Simply averaging 35 hours over 52 weeks is not sufficient.


----------



## mo83

hello there

ok so i am on 489 visa and of cores i want to get my PR by applying to 887 visa.


i understand that i can do that by completing full time employment of 35 hrs or by self employment.


as i dont want to waist time im going to go throw self employment but struggling on the definition of self employment as immi web sit really vage and provide basically no description or definition.

so my question is.
im considering two options
option 1
if my self employment as trading the the financial market(as in trading stocks options on ASX) would that count as self employment ?

option 2
opening a coffee kiocs

im moe exited to the first option as i am already involved.

is any of these option possible as self employment,if yes how to prove the houers as self employment?


----------



## Maggie-May24

mo83 said:


> hello there
> 
> ok so i am on 489 visa and of cores i want to get my PR by applying to 887 visa.
> 
> i understand that i can do that by completing full time employment of 35 hrs or by self employment.
> 
> as i dont want to waist time im going to go throw self employment but struggling on the definition of self employment as immi web sit really vage and provide basically no description or definition.
> 
> so my question is.
> im considering two options
> option 1
> if my self employment as trading the the financial market(as in trading stocks options on ASX) would that count as self employment ?
> 
> option 2
> opening a coffee kiocs
> 
> im moe exited to the first option as i am already involved.
> 
> is any of these option possible as self employment,if yes how to prove the houers as self employment?


I'd suggest you speak with a migration agent. For option 1, you'd need to provide evidence of your employment such as invoices to your clients so that would likely be a more difficult approach. For option 2, perhaps you can show your revenue, operating hours, lease agreement for wherever your kiosk is located, etc. but I'd always suggest self-employed applicants speak with a migration agent to make sure you have enough evidence.


----------



## mo83

Maggie-May24 said:


> I'd suggest you speak with a migration agent. For option 1, you'd need to provide evidence of your employment such as invoices to your clients so that would likely be a more difficult approach. For option 2, perhaps you can show your revenue, operating hours, lease agreement for wherever your kiosk is located, etc. but I'd always suggest self-employed applicants speak with a migration agent to make sure you have enough evidence.


thanks for your respond
i did speak to migration agent ant they were as vague as the immi website

thanks again im really not happy the way how immi provide definition and data on their website.


----------



## 887_visa

Hey All,

Greetings.

Need advice with regards to my 887 visa application, applied on 31st March, 2016.

I had CO ask me for additional docs (Spouse functional english) on 18th August, 2016. My Wife had to contact her overseas University and get the letters stating that she has completed Bachelors and Masters and all medium of instruction was in English. (She had to stress a bit for this, as the university stated that we should provide the contents of the letter and we did. All the university did was copy paste this in to their letter head with signatures and stamps. I have explained this to the CO in a mail as I want to be transparent). This amounts to 5 years of higher education in english. Should she also get a similar letter from her school (primary education) stating that medium of instruction was in English ?

I have uploaded the letters form Uni and her Convocation Certs (degree certificates) on 20th August. Now I realise there could be another issue which may hit me. My wife's name on the letters has her full name, as in her passport. But her degree certs just show her initials and first name. Ex: If my wife's name is Jennifer Andrew Smith in the University letters and passport, but in her degree certs it appears as A S Jennifer!

Will this cause an issue? I never thought of this, but this has been bugging me ever since. So far my CO has not asked for anything else. Is there anything I should pro-actively do or wait for the CO?

887 applied : 31st March, 2016
CO requested additional docs : 18th August, 2016 (functional english for spouse)
Docs submitted : on 18th and 20th.

Cheers


----------



## Sarkar

Hi all..

Hope you all are doing well.

Recently I have applied for 887 visa. Myself is a main applicant and my wife is a dependant in visa application. while filling application form In family details section I put my Parents as a dependants but I don't want visa for them. When i submit application and logged into online account, on my Application home page There is my name and my wife's name where I can attach documents and below that there is my Parents name and there is option to attach documents for them as well. Do I still need to attach documents for them as I don't want visa for them. Even i didn't included them in visa application.

Got confused please help.

Cheers


----------



## Maggie-May24

Sarkar said:


> Hi all..
> 
> Hope you all are doing well.
> 
> Recently I have applied for 887 visa. Myself is a main applicant and my wife is a dependant in visa application. while filling application form In family details section I put my Parents as a dependants but I don't want visa for them. When i submit application and logged into online account, on my Application home page There is my name and my wife's name where I can attach documents and below that there is my Parents name and there is option to attach documents for them as well. Do I still need to attach documents for them as I don't want visa for them. Even i didn't included them in visa application.
> 
> Got confused please help.
> 
> Cheers


You cannot include your parents as dependents, since dependents cannot be married. You should be able to complete and upload form 1023 Notification of Incorrect Answers to change them dependents to simply other family members, or otherwise you can wait for your CO to contact you about their medicals to advise them that they should be removed from your application.


----------



## gjalfonso

Hi everyone,
I am a holder of *489 Family Sponsored visa* at NT (with condition of "8549-MUST STAY IN DESIGNATED AREA") and working as casual for around 3 months now. My employment will end once our project is completed. As such, I need to look for another job, maybe not only in NT.
My question is:
Can I move and work in other DESIGNATED AREA other that NT without compromising my visa condition?

Please advise

Thanking you in advance,
gjalfonso


----------



## thegame733

*887 Subclass*

Hi there

I am on 489 visa living in Geelong. I have worked for an big company for a year and got 52 payslips but in this payslips I have few annual paid leaves as well as unpaid leaves for 2 weeks. My question is does this leaves would be considered in 887 visa. Those leaves are mentioned in my payslips. Or do I have to cover this hours for visa application? Please halo me with this.


----------



## thegame733

*887 Visa*

Hi Mark

I am currently holding 489 visa and i have lived in regional area for over year and a half. my question to you is that i have worked in a Big Company for a year but in this 1 year i have few paid annual leaves and sick leaves would that be considered for visa 887 application as a full time employment. Please let me know ASAP.

Regards 
Neil


----------



## tarund81

Hi Mark
I am on a 489 visa ss, completed 2 years stay in Tasmania and also 12 months of full time work. I am filling up the 887 application form and got stuck with the visa number as I don't have a visa label. When I am entering my passport number it is not allowing me to proceed by saying that it is wrong formate. Please advice.
Thanks
Tarun


----------



## tarund81

Hi everyone
I am on a 489 visa ss, completed 2 years stay in Tasmania and also 12 months of full time work. I am filling up the 887 application form and got stuck with the visa number as I don't have a visa label. When I am entering my passport number it is not allowing me to proceed by saying that it is wrong formate. Please advice.
Waiting 
Thanks 
Tarun


----------



## F Khan

Hi All,

I am on 489 visa and have applied for 887 visa, recently I have added my newborn girl in 887 application (my wife and my daughter, they are overseas). DIBP has added my daughter in application but they said, my daughter must be in Australia for a decision. my wife is on 489 subsequent entrant visa and already validated it.

my question is, can I apply visitor visa for my daughter to bring her into Australia ?

your help will be highly appreciated. thanks!


----------



## Maxzone

Guys I have one question, I moved to Regional Area when I was in Bridging Visa A, and started working full time (35+). I updated my address on immigration website. After 5 weeks when my visa has approved, it had the regional address (updated).

So my question is, when I can lodge my 887.
When I moved to Regional area or when my visa got approved?

When I checked online I found this " 887.212 the main applicant must have lived in a specified regional area for a total of at least two calendar years while holding one of the provisional GSM visas, or *bridging visas* associated with an application for a provisional GSM visa".

Expert please share your opinion please.


----------



## HR7

*Moving from NT*

Hello seniors, I joined this forum just today. I took NT nomination and got 489. I am staying here for almost 1.5 years. Struggling for job. Would like to move to Adelaide. Will it make any issue for 887 visa? Please help me out.


----------



## Salwa Bozai

tarund81 said:


> Hi Mark
> I am on a 489 visa ss, completed 2 years stay in Tasmania and also 12 months of full time work. I am filling up the 887 application form and got stuck with the visa number as I don't have a visa label. When I am entering my passport number it is not allowing me to proceed by saying that it is wrong formate. Please advice.
> Thanks
> Tarun


Hi Tarun,
Any update on your application?


----------



## Jacque8

raghu_k said:


> Hi,
> 
> Can the spouse who came to australia as a dependent of 489 visa holder apply for 887 if she/he meets all the requiremenst (like stay and work)? (The spouse has 489 which was granted as the dependent along with the main visa).
> 
> Thanks to all in advance.


Hi 
Did you by any chance receive a response for the above query. If so appreciate if you could share it across.

Thank you.
Jacqueline


----------



## bunny88sidhu

MarkNortham said:


> Hi nep12 -
> 
> Any specific questions about the visa? The key with the 887 usually is making sure you meet all the prerequisite requirements from whatever 4xx series visa you are now on, etc..
> 
> Best,
> 
> Mark Northam


hi mark,
i applied 489visa in 2015, I included my wife and my mother in my application and they too got same visa as secondary applicants;
i am planning to apply for 887 visa, Now can I include my mother as a dependent in my 887 visa application??
thanx


----------



## Noelle

*Health exam for non accompanying family members*

Hi Everyone, 
I have recently lodged my 887 visa application. On the application form, it has required me to declare ALL family members whether accompanying or not and it has specifically asked for my parents and siblings. I have declared my family members but they are not accompanying me in Australia. On my Immi Account, they are being required to do a health assessment. Is it necessary for them to have a medical done even if they are not my dependents nor are they accompanying me in Australia? 
Thank you!


----------



## tarund81

*Hi*



Salwa Bozai said:


> Hi Tarun,
> Any update on your application?


Sorry for the delay guys. I applied for the 887 visa on 28th Jan and uploaded all documents on 30th Jan. Still waiting for the CO. Also I have not been asked for medicals yet.
Any advice guys..


----------



## Noelle

Maxzone said:


> Guys I have one question, I moved to Regional Area when I was in Bridging Visa A, and started working full time (35+). I updated my address on immigration website. After 5 weeks when my visa has approved, it had the regional address (updated).
> 
> So my question is, when I can lodge my 887.
> When I moved to Regional area or when my visa got approved?
> 
> When I checked online I found this " 887.212 the main applicant must have lived in a specified regional area for a total of at least two calendar years while holding one of the provisional GSM visas, or *bridging visas* associated with an application for a provisional GSM visa".
> 
> Expert please share your opinion please.


Hi Maxzone,

I have the same situation. I have moved in the regional area 2 months before 489 visa grant. Do you have further info about this?


----------



## Noelle

Hi Mark, Hi Everyone, 

Hope you are well. Just a question again for 887 visa. I have moved to a Regional area 2 months prior to my 489 visa grant. Will that be counted on my 887 visa application? 

Here's my timeline:
November 2014 up to present- living in a Regional area. 
January 16, 2015- My 489 Visa was granted while I was off shore
January 21, 2015- I came back to Australia (I was overseas for 1 week only)
January 17, 2017- Applied for 887 Visa

Do you think there will be any issues with my 887 visa application in terms of residency requirements? 

Thank you.


----------



## sbatabyal

sachin6690deshmukh said:


> I am living in Darwin NT.I have completed 2 years stay in regional area recently.i have fulfilled work conditions.but in my 2 year stay in Darwin I went to overseas for 3 months.can I apply for subclass 887 now?or do I need to wait 3 more months to apply for subclass 887?


Hi,
Did you receive your 887 Visa? 
I, have received my Grant(489-NT SS), and we have to land in Aus before 12th may 2017. I am a Mechanical Engineer originally from India looking to settle and work in NT. How are the opportunities for work in NT? What are the things to consider after landing in NT? I mean, accomodation and everything, coz I am bringing my family straightaway. If you have a personal number for chat, could you share it with me? It would be of great help....

Thanks....


----------



## sbatabyal

Adubaha said:


> Hey there!
> What is your current stage on applying for 887?
> I am on 489 at Darwin.
> 
> Anyone from darwin NT, care for a meet up?
> By the way I am from Singapore.
> 
> Reds
> Kai


Hi, How are you?
I, too have received my Grant(489-NT SS),and we have to land in Aus before 12th may 2017. I am a Mechanical Engineer originally from India looking to settle and work in NT. How are the opportunities for work in NT? What are the things to consider after landing in NT? I mean, accomodation and everything, coz I am bringing my family straightaway. If you have a personal number for chat, could you share it with me? It would be of great help....
btw Sg is my second home....
Thanks....


----------



## jagjeetsingh507

Hi F Khan,

I am on 489 visa. My wife and child lives with me as dependent.

I am planning to apply 887 soon. Do they need to fulfill 2 years residency condition while applying for 887.

Regards
Jagjeet



F Khan said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I am on 489 visa and have applied for 887 visa, recently I have added my newborn girl in 887 application (my wife and my daughter, they are overseas). DIBP has added my daughter in application but they said, my daughter must be in Australia for a decision. my wife is on 489 subsequent entrant visa and already validated it.
> 
> my question is, can I apply visitor visa for my daughter to bring her into Australia ?
> 
> your help will be highly appreciated. thanks!


----------



## Yogi5252

MarkNortham said:


> Hi -
> 
> For new applications, where the application is properly prepared and all necessary forms and docs are included (ie, no delays due to application errors), we're seeing the process take between 4 and 6 months typically.
> 
> Hope this helps -
> 
> Best,
> 
> Mark Northam


Hi Mark Yogi here can I ask few questions if that's ok I am applying 489 to 887 soon/

1. For functional English I have studied Diploma 2 years full time will this be adequate in last 2 points on website.

2. I have traveled 6 weeks overseas in my annual leave will this time be deducted for my 2 years reginal stay requirements? I was still paying rent when I was away?

Thanks hips


----------



## Salwa Bozai

tarund81 said:


> Sorry for the delay guys. I applied for the 887 visa on 28th Jan and uploaded all documents on 30th Jan. Still waiting for the CO. Also I have not been asked for medicals yet.
> Any advice guys..


Hi Tarun the visa 887 page shows an updated processing time of 9 to 11 months. What's the status of your application?
We applied for 887 in October 2016. Case Officer requested additional documents in January 2017 which we uploaded right then and we are still waiting for the decision.


----------



## Maxzone

HI Salwa Bozai, you applied your 887 on October 2016. I just want to know one question. When you fulfil your 2 years in regional visa and lodge your 887. Is it mandatory that you have to be in regional area until you get your PR. Or once you applied for 887 you have no more restriction, you are free to go anywhere. please let me know. Thanks


----------



## mau_gomes

Hello people

I'd like to share some questions I have regarding my 489 Visa.
I was granted this Visa on 13 of May 2016.I plan to move to Oz this June 2017. So that will give me about 3 yrs to comply with conditions to apply for 887 Visa.

1- I have travelled to Australia 2 times already and stayed in different regional towns, staying in hotels and hostels.I have the receipts of those. Will this time staying in hotels and hostels count ? if I show the receipts.
2- I'll probably achieve my 2 yrs time living ,and 1 yr working, close to the end of my 04 yrs 489 visa, close to May 2020. I have read that you must be in Australia to apply for 887 and be there when the visa is granted. So, let's say I only apply for 887 10 days before my 489 expires, is there a bringing visa ? Because it might take 10 months for the 887 visa to be granted.
thanks


----------



## engr.shahidul33

I have slightly same issue as @mau_gomes: 
I got Regional Sponsored (#subclass 489) visa on September, 2015 . 
I have made my and my family members initial entry on due date last year. Then we returned to home, We will go to Australia again to fulfill the requirement for the permanent residency. However, want some more time to stay and complete some issues in the business and family.

For the permanent residency we have to live and work in Australia for 24 Months in the designated areas. Our visa will expired on 28th September 2019, I would like to request you to inform me the possibilities of extension of our visa before the expiry of the validity and complete the requirement of #887.

OR, same question as @mau_gomes 10 days before my 489 expires, is there a bringing visa ? Because it might take 10 months for the 887 visa to be granted.

Waiting for your reply.


----------



## deven_123

what are the current 887 timelines? any recent grants?


----------



## siva98

Hi Mark,

I have 489 Visa, I don't have any restriction to stay and work in Melbourne and Adelaide.
I am working in Melbourne since last year. I don't have any address proof in Melbourne as because I am staying at my friend's apartment. But, My family was there in Adelaide and I have some address proof documents in Adelaide.

I will apply for 887 Visa this year, 
If I submit my one-year work experience in Melbourne and My Address proof was in Adelaide.
How case officer will consider my case?


Please help me on this


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## vhinz

Hi Everyone,

I just want to ask if anyone here have been waiting or waited for their 887 for 10 months. My application from 489 to 887 has been under processing for 10 months now. I have lodge my application last July of 2016 and got allocated with a CO in October. CO asked for additional document in October (proof of residency and form 80) which I have provided in the same month. Then another doc in January for my wife's AFP. my wife went home last March and went back here in Melbourne in April. The CO emailed us for a pre-grant notice stating that my wife should be in AU to grant the visa. I have informed the Adelaide group 10 that my wife is in Australia already, but to date the CO have not granted our visa nor been replying to my email. I have also called IMMI and just said still under processing.

Usual timeline that I see here is at minimum 3 months to 6 months only.


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## zpat978

*489,887 questions.*

Hello All,

Need help on the same topic. I am in the process of applying for 489 Visa are my points break down

IELTS 10 points 
Age 15 points (42) 
Experience 15 Points 
Education 15 points

total 55 points plus 10 for regional = 65 points

My intention is to go on 489 and then apply for pr after two years 887... 
when i apply for 887 will my points again be calculated?

i.e when i apply for 887 after two years will my points be calculated again ??

As you can see after two years i will lose the 15 points for age as i will be 44/45 then so would this make me ineligible for 887 even after staying in regional area for two years and also working 1 years full time?

Do i need to give IELTS again after two years when applying for 489 as i am claiming 10 points for english on 489...

thank you..


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## andreab

*Visa 887*

Hello,

I will apply to 887 visa next week. I will be traveling for one month outside Australia on December, and since I don't know when the visa will be granted, I was wondering what would happend if the visa is granted while I am outside Australia. I saw on the website that I must be in Australia at the time of application lodgement and when the visa is granted, so I am worried about that.

Thank you


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## isu.abap

*went to overseas for 4 months in 24 months*

hi mark,

i am living in regional area for long 24 months. but, in between once i went to overseas for 4months. so, do i need to stay more 4 months again or just 2 months is good. am full of confusion.
can you please explain about that.
thank you.


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## Aamir

*887 inclusion of newborn child*

I became eligible to apply for VB 887 on 7th January 2017, and I lodged my online application on 8th Jan and while I was adding my only dependent child , the system wouldn't allow me to add him for some unknown reasons and granted me and my wife with bridging visas excluding my child.

I emailed skilled support department in order to resolve the issue. In response from the support officer, I was advised that my son wouldn't be added after the lodgement, however the error the system was posing was removed and hence I was advised to withdraw my application.

On 3rd Feb 2017 my daughter was born and I was on bridging visa at that time. In the meantime the above mentioned conversation with the officer was going on. It took about 6 weeks to get final verdict from the officer. I re-lodged my application on 23rd Feb. My daughter's birth certificate and passport were in process at that time.

Based on my own limited knowledge I was under the impression that it was just a continuation of my previous application process which was initiated on 8th Jan 2017 when my daughter was not born, the withdrawal was to correct the error in the system which didn't allow me to add my son.

Now the email i have received from immigration says that i cant include my daughter in this application as she was born on 3rd feb and my application was lodged on 23rd feb, please advise me what can i do now


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## anthonygomes

*Visa grant*

Dear noelle

did your visa approved?

Thanks
anthony
______________



noelle said:


> hi mark, hi everyone,
> 
> hope you are well. Just a question again for 887 visa. I have moved to a regional area 2 months prior to my 489 visa grant. Will that be counted on my 887 visa application?
> 
> Here's my timeline:
> November 2014 up to present- living in a regional area.
> January 16, 2015- my 489 visa was granted while i was off shore
> january 21, 2015- i came back to australia (i was overseas for 1 week only)
> january 17, 2017- applied for 887 visa
> 
> do you think there will be any issues with my 887 visa application in terms of residency requirements?
> 
> Thank you.


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## bikram_2016

hi,

I am working on 489 visa. I am working in fulltime sub contractor basis as a courier driver. Will this work help me to fulfill my working condition for 489 visa? Then after, will I be able to apply for 887 visa(PR)?

Moreover, I work 5 days a week. I get my pay advice which includes my payment details without mentioning the hours of work that I carry out. But if I get letter from my company that I am working full time sub-contractor in the company will that help me to apply for my 887 visa(PR)?

If anyone has the information regarding it, kindly help me out..


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## Sunny571

*487-887*



MarkNortham said:


> Hi nep12 -
> 
> Any specific questions about the visa? The key with the 887 usually is making sure you meet all the prerequisite requirements from whatever 4xx series visa you are now on, etc..
> 
> Best,
> 
> Mark Northam


"Hi ,
My question is about working condition , I am working on ABN as sub contractor and my contractor is not located in the specific area, i work more then 40 hours a week from last one year but i am working at least 35 hours in specific postcodes where i suppose to work and other hours i work other postcodes , 
Does this fulfil my condition i have all my working records and all my pay advice where and how much i worked ,

Any kind of help will be good thanks heaps ,

Regards 
Amandeep


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## Sunny571

good morning ,

i was just reading your post i am also in similar condition , how is your file processing going please provide me any kind of help if you can


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## slvicky

Hi All,

I'm also planning to apply for visa 887 end of this November. So thought of keeping touch with this thread 

cheers


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## Nur Akter

Hi All
I am going to apply for Subclass 887. In the online application under the Family Members Question we need to fill up Accompanying members of your family unit: Here i am giving my child details and would like to know do i need to give my husband details also?
If yes while i fill up my husband details one question is "relationship to you" however in the drop down menu i could not get any option to choose because in there options are : Parents, Child, Brother, Sister but no option for husband.

In details of other family members i gave my parents , brothers and sisters details is that correct?

Please suggest me here.

Many thanks in advance

Akter


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## slvicky

Nur Akter said:


> Hi All
> I am going to apply for Subclass 887. In the online application under the Family Members Question we need to fill up Accompanying members of your family unit: Here i am giving my child details and would like to know do i need to give my husband details also?
> If yes while i fill up my husband details one question is "relationship to you" however in the drop down menu i could not get any option to choose because in there options are : Parents, Child, Brother, Sister but no option for husband.
> 
> In details of other family members i gave my parents , brothers and sisters details is that correct?
> 
> Please suggest me here.
> 
> Many thanks in advance
> 
> Akter


Isn't it have a separate area to add a partner into your application?


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## Yesha.Parikh

Hi All
I am on 489 currently and I have applied for 887 visa on 06/08.
I move Australia in Aug 2015 initially for first 4 months I was staying with my relative so I don't have any utility bills or lease agreement for that duration. 
1) what else I can provide to prove my stay in Australia for those 4 moths?

2) And I have one more question regarding the processing time, what is the processing time for the application and how long it will take to assign Case manager?

Thank you in advance.


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## slvicky

Yesha.Parikh said:


> Hi All
> I am on 489 currently and I have applied for 887 visa on 06/08.
> I move Australia in Aug 2015 initially for first 4 months I was staying with my relative so I don't have any utility bills or lease agreement for that duration.
> 1) what else I can provide to prove my stay in Australia for those 4 moths?
> 
> 2) And I have one more question regarding the processing time, what is the processing time for the application and how long it will take to assign Case manager?
> 
> Thank you in advance.


1) what else I can provide to prove my stay in Australia for those 4 moths?
Get a letter from the owner of that house that you stayed with him for those 4 months. That will be enough

2) And I have one more question regarding the processing time, what is the processing time for the application and how long it will take to assign Case manager?
Normal processing time is 9-11 months. I'm not sure about the CO assignment though


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## Tygertyger

Hi everyone 

I applied for 887 from 489 on 12 May 2017, I tried to attach all documents straight away after lodging my application. Everything was uploaded including residency, work experience, character and English evidence for my partner. 
The DIBP granted my 887 visa on 16 Aug 2017, after 3 months. Any question I can share my experience??


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## slvicky

Tygertyger said:


> Hi everyone
> 
> I applied for 887 from 489 on 12 May 2017, I tried to attach all documents straight away after lodging my application. Everything was uploaded including residency, work experience, character and English evidence for my partner.
> The DIBP granted my 887 visa on 16 Aug 2017, after 3 months. Any question I can share my experience??


Congrats mate!!!! That's was pretty quick....

Did you submit Australia PCC only or other countries as well?


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## Tygertyger

slvicky said:


> Congrats mate!!!! That's was pretty quick....
> 
> Did you submit Australia PCC only or other countries as well?


Hi
I submitted both National and International PCC, 
Regards


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## slvicky

Tygertyger said:


> Hi
> I submitted both National and International PCC,
> Regards


Thanks.

I have few more questions for you.

1. When did you apply for Australia PCC? Is it after submitting visa application or before?

2. Did you apply for a new local PCC from your country or is it the one used for 489? If you got a new local PCC when did you apply that?

3. Didn't you provide medicals?

Sorry for so many questions. I just want to clear out & be ready when I'm applying


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## Tygertyger

slvicky said:


> Thanks.
> 
> I have few more questions for you.
> 
> 1. When did you apply for Australia PCC? Is it after submitting visa application or before?
> 
> 2. Did you apply for a new local PCC from your country or is it the one used for 489? If you got a new local PCC when did you apply that?
> 
> 3. Didn't you provide medicals?
> 
> Sorry for so many questions. I just want to clear out & be ready when I'm applying


1.Just before applying for 887. It was less than one month old 
2.I applied a new one, cause the one I used for 489 was 2 yrs old, It was not easy to get a new one while I was staying in Aus.
3.No, you don't need unless DIBP asks you to.
Regards


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## Yesha.Parikh

slvicky said:


> 1) what else I can provide to prove my stay in Australia for those 4 moths?
> Get a letter from the owner of that house that you stayed with him for those 4 months. That will be enough
> 
> 2) And I have one more question regarding the processing time, what is the processing time for the application and how long it will take to assign Case manager?
> Normal processing time is 9-11 months. I'm not sure about the CO assignment though


Thank you so much for it. 
I have one more query after applying for 887 are we eligible for Medicare or not?


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## slvicky

Yesha.Parikh said:


> Thank you so much for it.
> I have one more query after applying for 887 are we eligible for Medicare or not?


Once you granted with visa 887, you will be eligible to apply for Medicare


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## rali

Yesha.Parikh said:


> Thank you so much for it.
> I have one more query after applying for 887 are we eligible for Medicare or not?


You can get Medicare for one year once you received Bridging visa. No need to wait until 887 visa gets approved. I have applied my 887 visa on July 29, 2017 and received bridging visa immediately. Then applied for Medicare and received Medicare card with in 2 weeks.


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## slvicky

rali said:


> You can get Medicare for one year once you received Bridging visa. No need to wait until 887 visa gets approved. I have applied my 887 visa on July 29, 2017 and received bridging visa immediately. Then applied for Medicare and received Medicare card with in 2 weeks.


Hi Mate,

Since the bridging visa does not come in to effect until your current visa expired, are we allowed to use the bridging visa to apply for Medicare?

Also, you said that Medicare will be granted for one year. Does it automatically renew once we are granted PR or we should apply for Medicare again?


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## rali

slvicky said:


> Hi Mate,
> 
> Since the bridging visa does not come in to effect until your current visa expired, are we allowed to use the bridging visa to apply for Medicare?
> 
> Also, you said that Medicare will be granted for one year. Does it automatically renew once we are granted PR or we should apply for Medicare again?


Yes, you can still use the bridging visa for Medicare. My 489 visa is expire on April 2019. I got my Medicare using Bridging visa only.

Once the PR is approved, we have to go to Medicare and show the PR to renew it.


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## zasuma

Hi all,

Im planning apply for visa 887 this November. I wonder if i can go oversea for a month after that (in dec-jan) on my visa 489 or I need to apply for bridging visa B?


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## zpat978

I have a similar question.. plz help. I have got 489 state sponsored from nsw far south coast. I am finding it difficult to get accomadation in fsc.

Can i move to other regional areas of australia like adelaide?

Do i need to get a release letter from fsc? Please help me

If i move to adelaide without letter from fsc will it cause problem when applying for PR?

Thank u so much....



MarkNortham said:


> Hi Nep12 -
> 
> You have a lot of questions - you may wish to get some professional assistance with this application as there are some issues raised. As I don't have access to your documents, visa or specifics I cannot comment specifically on your case, but here are some general comments:
> 
> 1) The definition of "specified regional area" for purposes of the 887 application for a 489 holder depends on the type of 489 sponsorship = if family sponsored 489, then "specified regional area" means "designated area"which includes all of VIC. If state/terr sponsored for 489, then "specified regional area" means regional/low pop growth areas - the list on your link.
> 
> 2) That evidence seems adequate.
> 
> 3) That evidence seems fine.
> 
> 4) IELTS results are good for 3 years now, so it would depend on the age of the test report.
> 
> 5) No occupation limits on the 489 visa, but the 1 year of work must be full-time and in the specified regional area. Can be for an employer or self-employed. Here's the link for employment evidence:
> 
> Skilled - Regional (Residence) visa (subclass 887)
> 
> 6 - only if they ask for it.
> 
> Hope this helps!
> 
> Best,
> 
> Mark Northam


----------



## slvicky

zasuma said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Im planning apply for visa 887 this November. I wonder if i can go oversea for a month after that (in dec-jan) on my visa 489 or I need to apply for bridging visa B?


I think you can go overseas. But better you inform the CO if your application is assigned to a CO at the time of you leaving because you have to be here when they decide your grant.

I'm not actually sure about applying for bridging visa B. All I know is your bridging visa won't come to effect until your current visa expires(visa 489). So, I think you can safely go overseas & return to Australia.


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## vkhadka4820

*about 887 visa*

Hi ! mark 
i am vivek, currently i am living in South Australia , Adelaide. I moved from sydney as skilled regional visa 489. Now i am applying visa 887. I came Australia 2008 September. It's nearly 10 years. so while applying visa 887 do i have to show Police Clearance Check (PCC) from my country Nepal? I

regards 
vivek


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## slvicky

vkhadka4820 said:


> Hi ! mark
> i am vivek, currently i am living in South Australia , Adelaide. I moved from sydney as skilled regional visa 489. Now i am applying visa 887. I came Australia 2008 September. It's nearly 10 years. so while applying visa 887 do i have to show Police Clearance Check (PCC) from my country Nepal? I
> 
> regards
> vivek


Hi Vivek,

As per border.gov.au, they only require Aus PCC. But mentioned they might ask for other PCC as well, but we should not submit them until they ask for.

Cheers


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## vkhadka4820

slvicky said:


> Hi Vivek,
> 
> As per border.gov.au, they only require Aus PCC. But mentioned they might ask for other PCC as well, but we should not submit them until they ask for.
> 
> Cheers


Thank you so much Mark


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## vkhadka4820

*visa 887*

Hi Mark
I have a one question regarding the visa 887. 
the Question is - 
I am applying visa 887 very soon. I am the main applicant. My dependent my wife who has done Diploma of accounting in Australia . ( 2 years full time) Now while applying visa 887 does she need the IELTS ? Thanks


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## slvicky

vkhadka4820 said:


> Hi Mark
> I have a one question regarding the visa 887.
> the Question is -
> I am applying visa 887 very soon. I am the main applicant. My dependent my wife who has done Diploma of accounting in Australia . ( 2 years full time) Now while applying visa 887 does she need the IELTS ? Thanks


Hi Mate,

No, you don't have to provide IELTS for your partner. IELTS required only for dependents who turned 18 after your were granted visa 489


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## vkhadka4820

slvicky said:


> Hi Mate,
> 
> No, you don't have to provide IELTS for your partner. IELTS required only for dependents who turned 18 after your were granted visa 489


thank you so much .


----------



## vkhadka4820

*visa 887*

Hi Mark 
good morning

I am vivek. Coming November 2017, i am going to apply visa 887. I have prepared all the necessary documents. I am the main applicant. My wife is the dependent and we have one 4 years old child. In this case do we need to fill "Form 80" only or ? is there any other form which do we have to fill? Thanks
I hope i will get my reply soon.


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## vkhadka4820

*visa 887*

Hi Mark

I have one question regarding for visa 887. We have small daughter who is 5 years old now. In this case while applying visa 887 do we have to fill any extra form except "Form 80" ? ( ie form 1221 or any other?)


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## howie

Hi guys.
I have one question for the 1 year working experience. 
The definition of full time job is that you work at least 35 hours per week. what about public holidays? if there is a public holiday that I do not work, so I might have only 30 hours in that week. Does this week still count as a full time week?

Thanks in advance


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## bappi2k3

*About 887 Visa*

Hi Mark,

I will apply for 887 in February. I have following question regarding the application.

01. When i came to regional area i stayed with my relative as a guest for two week.that time my relative live in a rented house. Can i include that 2 week as stay in regional area for two years.
02. If i include that two weeks what kind of document i have to submit.
03. If i don't what i will write on the application about that two weeks
From the second week of my regional stay with my relative i stated full time job. therefore if i asked them to give job reference letter they will give from the bargaining.


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