# Australian Passport for newborn problem



## kris3179 (Oct 4, 2014)

Hi there

Hi,

i am permanent resident and my baby is born here.

I made an appointment today for my baby's passport application and was astonished when Au post refused a printed pdf version of my permanent residency status visa which was issued to me electronically as it has been in force since last two years.

I checked every page of required documents for baby's passport application and its nowhere written that we need a physical stamp on Parents passport showing there permanent visa status.

Now,because of this annoying request to get a visa sticker on my passport i am going through mental harrasment as all my plans to travel overseas has been disturbed .

Anyways...then i called passport office and i got one more shock that if i get a visa label now it is going to be unvalid as Sticker should be there at the time of birth of child.....:I told them that visa label is going to show about my permanent residence visa issue date.

But they said no.....In cut short they are rejecting Australian document issued by immigration .

Please shed some light ...how to fix the problem as these passport office guys has no access to online visa verification system.


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## EDT (Aug 22, 2014)

kris3179 said:


> Hi there
> 
> Hi,
> 
> ...


That's shocking . so we now have to get visa sticker in our passport ?


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## Becky26 (Jun 18, 2013)

I don't get this, I thought the permanent residency visa (or any kind of Australian visa) is linked to the passport of the visa holder and all the immigration needs to do is swipe the passport and the whole profile of the passport holder and what type of visa he/she holds will come up on the officer's computer screen without the drama of a visa label or the grant letter 

Why is the visa label going to be considered invalid? Won't the label have the date of PR visa grant? And the birth certificate of the child will have the date of birth, won't these two documents be pretty self-explanatory as to if the visa holder had the PR status at the time of his child's birth? 

This is bizarre


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

EDT said:


> That's shocking . so we now have to get visa sticker in our passport ?


Only if your spouse is not a citizen.


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

Becky it has to do with the passport office being different government department to DIBP. I believe they can't use a birth certificate because just because you are born in Australia and get an Australian birth certificate does not mean that you are a citizen.

OP - I would post in Ask Mark and see what he says. The reason they won't accept the printout is because of fraud. If there is no way around it you may just have to get the PR stamp in your passport and hope that they will accept it.


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## Becky26 (Jun 18, 2013)

Mish said:


> Becky it has to do with the passport office being different government department to DIBP. I believe they can't use a birth certificate because just because you are born in Australia and get an Australian birth certificate does not mean that you are a citizen.


Thanks for your reply Mish  But I thought that if one of the parent is either an Australian citizen or PR and the child is born in Australia, he/she would be an Australian citizen? 
Children born to a permanent resident of Australia

And if the OP has been a PR holder since before the birth of his child, then couldn't DIBP provide a document stating that the OP has held the PR status since whenever his visa was approved? i.e the label which would obviously state when that visa was approved clearing the doubt of anything being a fraud.

And why would that label make anything invalid?


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

Becky26 said:


> Thanks for your reply Mish  But I thought that if one of the parent is either an Australian citizen or PR and the child is born in Australia, he/she would be an Australian citizen?
> Children born to a permanent resident of Australia
> 
> And if the OP has been a PR holder since before the birth of his child, then couldn't DIBP provide a document stating that the OP has held the PR status since whenever his visa was approved? i.e the label which would obviously state when that visa was approved clearing the doubt of anything being a fraud.
> ...


Correct if PR child is a citizen but I believe they need to prove that with the PR sticker in a passport.

From what the OP said the sticker is dated when it is put into the passport. That does seem rather strange you would think it would put the grant date on it.

Australian government don't make things east because things are done in different government departments. The prove the citizenship that is done through citizenship office which again would need the PR stamp. I am not sure why the VEVO check can not be emailed through.

I looked into European visa for my husband when we go for a holiday and they said either a label or the VEVO emailed to them direct from VEVO. Not sure why Australian government can't accept the same thing.


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## Becky26 (Jun 18, 2013)

Mish said:


> Correct if PR child is a citizen but I believe they need to prove that with the PR sticker in a passport.
> 
> From what the OP said the sticker is dated when it is put into the passport. That does seem rather strange you would think it would put the grant date on it.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the reply Mish 
All this sticker thing seems to me is a way to trick people 

The passport office not accepting a document provided by VEVO (when other countries are for visa issuing purpose) is just stupid and confusing for those who aren't aware of these minute details that they need get a sticker in their passport otherwise later when they might need it, it won't be considered valid

Good Luck OP! Please do share with us how you go.

Kind Regards,
Becky


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## kris3179 (Oct 4, 2014)

Hi All,

Thanks for sharing thoughts.

Now passport guys are telling me that even if i get a visa sticker now in my passport ...its going to be unvalid because sticker should be put into my passport before the birth of baby......I dont understand that is it about permanent resident status or bloody Sticker put in date.I am PR since 2008.

They said that i have to get babys citizenship certificate to get his passport.....Now there is another drama in form 119.

Form 119 is DIBPs form and it says that One of the parent should have *permanent residence visa at the time of babys birth and proof is required e.g Visa label in passport or physical permanent entry stamp in passport.

My question to immigration ......Why the hell you guys are making propoganda that visa label is no more required in Australia.Your passport dep dont have bloody technology to verify persons identity and punch in the electronic visa number of the person or passport office cannot talk to DIBP.

They are so lazy to put two lines in their application form or on their website that PDf version of PR visa is a fraud and not accepted at all.so that thousands of guys like me should get there visa sticker labeled on there passport by spending 70$ one day before babys birth.

I am totally confused now .Will call DIBP on monday .
*


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## Becky26 (Jun 18, 2013)

kris3179 said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Thanks for sharing thoughts.
> 
> ...


Thanks for updating us kris3179. This does sound like one confusing situation and immigration does't seem to wanna help the one who is confused and in need of a solution to his problem.

If I'm not wrong the visa labels now cost $150. Just by reading what happened with you, I'm going to get one in my passport as soon as I get to Australia, for the situations that could include a "just in case" scenario.
I hope everything works out for you. Please do keep us updated.
Good Luck! 

Kind Regards,
Becky


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## kris3179 (Oct 4, 2014)

Hi Everybody,

Can anyone help me with my problem?????????


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## Becky26 (Jun 18, 2013)

kris3179 said:


> Hi Everybody,
> 
> Can anyone help me with my problem?????????


I think you shoud post your issue on the http://www.australiaforum.com/visas-immigration/49513-ask-mark-428.html thread. Mark should be able to assist you better than anyone else. Hope this helps. Good Luck! Please let us know how you go 

Kind Regards,
Becky


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## kris3179 (Oct 4, 2014)

Hi all,

Can anyone help me to get out of this problem.??


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

As Becky said post in Ask Mark and he can probably help you (he is a migration agent).


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## kris3179 (Oct 4, 2014)

HI all,This is the reply i got from Passport policy officer.....You can see what they have done without letting the public know.

Dear Shri,

Thank you for your email regarding the required documents for your child. Under the Australian Passports Act 2005 (the Act) an Australian passport can only be issued to an Australian citizen. The Act requires the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade (DFAT) to be satisfied that a person is an Australian citizen before issuing an Australian passport.

Under Australia’s citizenship regulations, evidence required to demonstrate a person’s Australian citizenship status differs depending on whether the person was born: overseas, in Australia before 20 August 1986, or in Australia on or after 20 August 1986. 

People born in Australia on or after 20 August 1986, must provide proof that at least one parent was an Australian citizen or permanent resident at the time of their birth. This is a requirement under the Australian Citizenship Amendment Act 1986 and the Australian Citizenship Act 2007, which specify that a person born in Australia on or after 20 August 1986 does not automatically obtain Australian citizenship.

People who were born in Australia on or after 20 August 1986, are therefore required to present their full Australian birth certificate issued by an Australian state or territory Registry of Births, Deaths and Marriages plus proof that at least one of their parents was an Australian citizen or permanent resident of Australia at the time of their birth.

The proof required includes: one parent’s Australian citizenship certificate, if the parent was born in Australia before 20 August 1986, that parent’s Australian birth certificate, if the applicant’s parent was also born in Australia on or after 20 August 1986, that parent’s Australian birth certificate plus a grandparent’s Australian birth certificate (the parent/grandparent need to be related), if the parent was a permanent resident of Australia, a foreign passport with the original permanent residency visa label showing that the parent was a permanent resident at the time of the applicant’s birth.

Note: The following documents cannot be used as proof of a parent’s permanent residency:
. Visa Entitlement Verification Online (VEVO) print out

. DIBP visa grant notification letter

. Certificate of Evidence of Resident Status (CERS)

. ImmiCard

. Certificate of Status for New Zealand Citizens in Australia (CSNZCA)


Given your situation, you should not obtain a new visa label as it will not be sufficient evidence of your permanent residency if issued after your child was born. People who are not able to provide evidence of a parent’s Australian citizenship or permanent residency at the time of their birth must apply for their own evidence of citizenship by submitting a Form 119 Application for evidence of Australian citizenship to DIBP. Forms are available from the DIBP website


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## Hassali.abdi (Jul 28, 2014)

Becky26 said:


> Thanks for updating us kris3179. This does sound like one confusing situation and immigration does't seem to wanna help the one who is confused and in need of a solution to his problem.
> 
> If I'm not wrong the visa labels now cost $150. Just by reading what happened with you, I'm going to get one in my passport as soon as I get to Australia, for the situations that could include a "just in case" scenario.
> I hope everything works out for you. Please do keep us updated.
> ...


Becky,

If the Visa sticker label is so important, then I would urge everybody to choose to pay the $150 for sticker so that one will not suffer at the hands of Australian Immigration and Citizenship department at a later stage.

How do you see if we request for the visa label immediately after the grant notification is received. This, according to my understanding can be done at the Australian High Commission that processed your application and granted you the visa.

What is your contribution on this guys?

Hassan


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## Becky26 (Jun 18, 2013)

kris3179 said:


> HI all,This is the reply i got from Passport policy officer.....You can see what they have done without letting the public know.
> 
> Dear Shri,
> 
> ...


Thank you for the update kris3179.
So under the given circumstances, your child will be a permanent resident visa that same as yours then?
Good Luck!

Kind Regards,
Becky


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## forestyuan2014 (Oct 7, 2014)

The government needs some pressure to improve its procedures. Maybe you can write a letter to your MP or seek help from the media.


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## Becky26 (Jun 18, 2013)

Hassali.abdi said:


> Becky,
> 
> If the Visa sticker label is so important, then I would urge everybody to choose to pay the $150 for sticker so that one will not suffer at the hands of Australian Immigration and Citizenship department at a later stage.
> 
> ...


Hey Hassan,

From what I can understand from this case and as Mish said is that the PR holders (whose partners don't hold Australian citizenship) must be very careful and should get a visa label in their passport as soon as they either get their visa approved or on their arrival in Australia.

Because the Passport Department doesn't accept the documents that all the other departments in Australia accept, visa label is very important.
I'm definitely getting a visa label even though I'll be on a 309 as soon as I'm done visiting all the necessary offices as the visa holder has to send his/her passport to the DIBP for them to stick the label.
Hope this helps. Good Luck!

Kind Regards,
Becky


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## Hassali.abdi (Jul 28, 2014)

Becky26 said:


> Hey Hassan,
> 
> From what I can understand from this case and as Mish said is that the PR holders (whose partners don't hold Australian citizenship) must be very careful and should get a visa label in their passport as soon as they either get their visa approved or on their arrival in Australia.
> 
> ...


EXACTLY Becky,
To be on the safer side, even if we are granted the 309 temporary, we shouldnt look at the $150 which we would have used it other wise. We should gor for it. I will definitelt ask for the sticker.

For our own prove that we ever had Australian visa, we have to seek a sticker even visitor visitors. I will do that for any visa. $150 for safety from suffering later is as nothing as $0.

I will go for visa label sticker in my passport for any visa from Australia.

Wish everbody a success in every aspect of life.

Hassan


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## Becky26 (Jun 18, 2013)

Hassali.abdi said:


> EXACTLY Becky,
> To be on the safer side, even if we are granted the 309 temporary, we shouldnt look at the $150 which we would have used it other wise. We should gor for it. I will definitelt ask for the sticker.
> 
> For our own prove that we ever had Australian visa, we have to seek a sticker even visitor visitors. I will do that for any visa. $150 for safety from suffering later is as nothing as $0.
> ...


Yes! Better to be safe than sorry. Some situations in life aren't worth bargaining, but that's just me 
Good Luck! 

Kind Regards,
Becky


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## Maggie-May24 (Jul 24, 2011)

forestyuan2014 said:


> The government needs some pressure to improve its procedures. Maybe you can write a letter to your MP or seek help from the media.


I agree that the government needs to become more efficient. I refuse to pay money for a second piece of evidence that I have PR status simply because the government departments can't get their respective acts together and share information better.


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## kris3179 (Oct 4, 2014)

Thanks All,

I want to state here that the root cause of my problem is a information hidden by Passport department on there child passport application form and on there website.

This is not a spouse visa or other visa application where case officer can suck ur blood by demanding more and more supporting documents whenever he wants.

This is clear cut policy matter.For example-You need ticket to travel on bus.Doesnt matter u pay cash or by card to buy a ticket.

So.....We are going by the rules made available to us by passport office.

Now i have challenged the matter by asking for the copy of this partcular rule.When and where and who made it? That immi card,VEVO,Certificate of permanent residency,Visa grant letter and visa sticker on passport after the birth of baby even if parent is PR for last 6 years,,,,,is not accepatable.I have asked for it and now they are not replying.I am trying to take this matter to media so that this info would be made public.

This rule is made up in lunchtime meetings and has no validation in the Court of Law.

Lets see what happens?


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## Becky26 (Jun 18, 2013)

kris3179 said:


> Thanks All,
> 
> I want to state here that the root cause of my problem is a information hidden by Passport department on there child passport application form and on there website.
> 
> ...


Good Luck kris3179! DIBP and Passport Office needs to be set right. They know they don't any power over them that's why they screw with people even those who follow every single rule there is.

I would like to see what happens if the media does decide to show what these two departments do with people. 
Thanks for keeping us updated 

Kind Regards,
Becky


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## aussiesteve (Mar 16, 2012)

Becky26 said:


> Good Luck kris3179! DIBP and Passport Office needs to be set right. They know they don't any power over them that's why they screw with people even those who follow every single rule there is.
> 
> I would like to see what happens if the media does decide to show what these two departments do with people.
> Thanks for keeping us updated
> ...


It seems incredible that one department doesn't have access to information held by another department.
Surely they could obtain anyone's immigration status in a second.
However don't think that this applies only to recent immigrants.When my daughter recently applied for a passport I had to prove my residential status at the time of her birth despite the fact I was born here.


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## kris3179 (Oct 4, 2014)

Hi Guys ...I sent another mail to Passport office written below...Plz have a look

I have read your website ten times....these particular lines below are nowhere mentioned.

If i would have known this...i would have got the visa label done on my passport.

Note: The following documents cannot be used as proof of a parent’s permanent residency:

. Visa Entitlement Verification Online (VEVO) print out

. DIBP visa grant notification letter

. Certificate of Evidence of Resident Status (CERS)

. ImmiCard

. Certificate of Status for New Zealand Citizens in Australia
(CSNZCA)

As this is very important information...why it was kept secret or hidden from the public ???

And also please tell me how come visa label is not valid as i am permanent resident since 2008 and i got Resident return visa in 2013 i.e electronically issued.Visa label shows a START date of permanent
residency with finish date as well.

I want to know the detailed reason.


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

Have you thought to go to your local member for help? 

Also the bits you mention that you can't find. I swear I have seen it somewhere before but not 100% sure where ... Maybe the citizenship website?

Please let us know how you get on


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## sunnyr (Dec 2, 2014)

So how did it go man, I am in the same situation.

Don't know what to do. 

What you eventually did?


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## mmis4167 (Dec 2, 2014)

sunnyr said:


> So how did it go man, I am in the same situation.
> 
> Don't know what to do.
> 
> What you eventually did?


it seems form 119 is easy answer. (conditions from the form below)

1. born on or after 20 August
1986

2. You became an Australian citizen at birth if
at least one of your parents was an
Australian citizen or permanent resident of
Australia at the time of your birth

3. Evidence of one parent's permanent
residence in Australia (if available), for
example a passport with a visa granting
permanent residence or permanent entry
stamp

With the confirmation letter you can apply for a new passport. No need for a aud 150 sticker. No drama, guys.


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## Maggie-May24 (Jul 24, 2011)

mmis4167 said:


> 3. Evidence of one parent's permanent
> residence in Australia (if available), for
> example a passport with a visa granting
> permanent residence or permanent entry
> ...


The passport office refuses to accept his grant notice as evidence of PR, so it has become a problem.


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## mmis4167 (Dec 2, 2014)

Passport office can not accept his documents cos of reasons stated above.

The pass office suggested to use form 119 - Application for evidence of
Australian citizenship. From what I understand the child supposes to apply to DIBP as he or she is an Australian citizen (you became one at birth if at least one of your parents was an Australian citizen or permanent resident of Australia at the time of your birth). it really doesn't matter if your dad or mom has any sticker in their passports. So you (actually your parent in your name) apply for an evidence of Australian citizenship. With an evidence you (your parent in your name) apply for a passport at passport office. Supporting documents needed in form 119: Evidence of one parent's permanent residence in Australia (if available), *for example* a passport with a visa granting permanent residence or permanent entry stamp.

sounds easy.


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## sglout (Feb 28, 2015)

Hi Kris,

Can you please update us about what finally happened with your child's passport? I am in a similar situation. My wife is due in August, and I do have the visa stamp on my passport, but it does not have any 'issue date' on it. Only the PR visa start date and end date is mentioned on it. So I am really confused. I don't want to face similar situation as yours as I have travel plans after my child is born.

Thanks



kris3179 said:


> Hi there
> 
> Hi,
> 
> ...


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## wrussell (Dec 31, 2014)

I am currently doing battle with these halfwitted parasites to obtain passports for three of my grandchildren, all of whom were born in Australia to parents who were Australian citizens. In two more days one of them will be an Australian citizen, having resided in Australia for ten years. If all else fails, a court order would solve the problem.


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## JohnMac (Jul 13, 2015)

*Cers*

Hello, my notification of becoming an Aus Perm Resident actually says I have been awarded a PR Visa, primarily, instead of CERS. Clearly, Australian permanent residents need to be sent the Certificate of Evidence of Resident Status (CERS) to demonstrate their Lawful status.

AU Immigration says...
'if a permanent resident chooses to travel internationally, they need to ensure they have a permanent visa with a valid travel authority if they wish to return to Australia as a permanent resident.'

As a British passport holder my travel authority is the Brit. Gov. Australians need an A. Passport. So any passport holder has the authority to travel. There is no such thing as a permanent visa. There is a returning residents visa which is for those in Australian who do not have a passport and can be issued as a travel authority by the Immigration Minister, which is temporary, as is the minister, costing $350. The Minister has no Authority to decide if a PR is a PR under any circumstance. As a PR it is easily proved and therefore cannot be disproved. Hence, the question, 'whether to return as a PR or not'. That's why they don't issue CERS. Duped?

To correct the statement is now easy...if a permanent resident chooses to travel internationally, they need to ensure they have a valid travel authority or a RRV, Immigration already know one is a PR!

I hope that clarifies the matter.

rgds


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