# Visa subclass 189 and 190



## Sibtain (Mar 20, 2013)

Hi,

I am a chartered accountant from Pakistan and ACCA. I am planning to apply for Australian visa. 
I can see that my skills are listed in both SOL 1 and SOL 2. Which means that there is eligibility to apply for either visa subclass 189 or 190. Please correct me if I am wrong.
I would also like to know what are the advantages of applying for visa 190 as compared to visa 189 or vice versa?
Thanks


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

Hi Sibtain -

You are correct if your occupation is on both lists, you can apply for either visa. Both visas require a skills assessment and qualifying IELTS. The primary difference is that the 189 visa does not require a state sponsorship - if you have a relatively high points test score , this may be the visa for you as people are invited to apply for visas based on their points test score - higher scores get invitations sooner; lower scores get invitations later or not at all.

The 190 visa can be better if you only can get 55 points, and need the 5 points from state sponsorship. The downside is that you have to lodge a state sponsorship application and meet the state's requirements, which in some cases can be tougher than the DIAC minimums. The upside is that if you get approved by the state, you're immediately invited to apply for a visa, so you aren't left waiting for an invitation and hoping your points test score will get you one as you are with the 189.

Hope this helps -

Best,

Mark Northam


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## Sibtain (Mar 20, 2013)

Thanks Mark for your response.

I have just one more question. I incorrectly gave IELTS general and scored an overall 8.5 (8 or above in all 4 subjects). Later on, I sat for IELTS academic and scored overall 8 but scored 7 in one of the subjects. 

I understand that assessing authority requires IELTS academic for assessment. Once I am assessed positive, based on IELTS academic, does DIAC require IELTS academic as well for 189/190. Can I submit/mention IELTS general in EOI besides IELTS academic?

I am trying to use the extra 10 points for getting 8 or above in all 4 subjects.

Regards,
Sibtain


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

Hi Sibtain -

DIAC will accept either Academic or General test versions, it makes no difference to DIAC. Overall score is not relevant at all for DIAC, only individual band scores - for skilled points test 7 or better on all 4 bands gets you 10 points, 8 or better on all 4 bands gets you 20 points.

Best,

Mark Northam



Sibtain said:


> Thanks Mark for your response.
> 
> I have just one more question. I incorrectly gave IELTS general and scored an overall 8.5 (8 or above in all 4 subjects). Later on, I sat for IELTS academic and scored overall 8 but scored 7 in one of the subjects.
> 
> ...


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## msohaibkhan (Dec 2, 2012)

*Pakistani CA*

Hi Sibtain,

It was a great discussion going on. I want to know a thing which is very confusing and is preventing me to start proceedings for the Aussie immigration. I am also a Chartered Accountant from Pakistan. I just want to know if I get my CA qualification accredited from the Australian Institute of Chartered Accountants, what would be its status? Will it be assessed as equivalent to Austrlian Bachelors or what? In simple terms, how many points will I get after getting it accredited i.e. 15 points or 10 points?

The point is that I have post asrticleship experience of more than 3 years, but post qualification experience is only 2 years, so I fear that I would not be awarded any point in the employment experience category. Thats why I want to know how many points will I get for my education / skills.

Thank you.


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## Sunshine17 (Mar 24, 2013)

Hi,

I have 4.5 years of work experience, but currently i am not employed. I have 65 points in skillselect. Is it fine for me to raise EOI? 

I have heard that in skillselect it is not necessary to be currently employed. Please correct me?


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

Hi Sunshine -

Once you have completed your IELTS test and received at least 6 on each band (unless you are from an exempt country) and have received a positive skills assessment you can lodge your EOI and, if appropriate, lodge a state sponsorship application. It is not a requirement for either to be currently employed.

Best,

Mark Northam



Sunshine17 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have 4.5 years of work experience, but currently i am not employed. I have 65 points in skillselect. Is it fine for me to raise EOI?
> 
> I have heard that in skillselect it is not necessary to be currently employed. Please correct me?


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## msohaibkhan (Dec 2, 2012)

*Points for education*

Hi Mark

I would be grateful if you could shed some light on the quoted message



msohaibkhan said:


> Hi Sibtain,
> 
> It was a great discussion going on. I want to know a thing which is very confusing and is preventing me to start proceedings for the Aussie immigration. I am also a Chartered Accountant from Pakistan. I just want to know if I get my CA qualification accredited from the Australian Institute of Chartered Accountants, what would be its status? Will it be assessed as equivalent to Austrlian Bachelors or what? In simple terms, how many points will I get after getting it accredited i.e. 15 points or 10 points?
> 
> ...


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## Mubashar (Aug 4, 2013)

*Pakistani CA = Points 10 or 15?*

Hi, Sohaib, 
Did you get your answer regarding points for Pakistani CA? Is it 10 or 15?



msohaibkhan said:


> Hi Sibtain,
> 
> It was a great discussion going on. I want to know a thing which is very confusing and is preventing me to start proceedings for the Aussie immigration. I am also a Chartered Accountant from Pakistan. I just want to know if I get my CA qualification accredited from the Australian Institute of Chartered Accountants, what would be its status? Will it be assessed as equivalent to Austrlian Bachelors or what? In simple terms, how many points will I get after getting it accredited i.e. 15 points or 10 points?
> 
> ...


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

Hi All -

Overseas accounting qualifications are assessed by the Australian skills assessment authority (such as the ICAA) on a case-by-case basis looking carefully at the qualification, subjects studied, etc to determine if they assess it as equivalent to an Australian Bachelor Degree. Here's a link with more:

Recognised accounting qualifications

Even if you're a member of the "fully recognised" accounting bodies overseas, that is not a guarantee that the ICAA or other skills assessment authority will assess your qualifications as equivalent to an Australian Bachelor degree. It all comes down to your particular qualification(s) - no shortcut to applying for the assessment and seeing how it goes. Would recommend including plenty of documentation about your courses/qualifications and how they are viewed in your home country, plus any info about the structure of accounting industry recognition and qualifications in your home country if the assessor needs it (or may find it helpful).

Best,

Mark Northam


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## Rajji (Oct 3, 2013)

Hi Mark,

I am a chartered accountant from India and intend to send the documents for skill assessment to ICAA next week. Please advice me, whether the following documents would suffice (I am not claiming any points for work experience) :
1.Good standing certificate
2.Membership certificate
3.Certificate of practice
4.Marksheets of CA, B-Com and M-Com
5.Copy of academic degree
6.Syllabus of CA, B-Com and M-Com
7.PASA form
8.IELTS TRF
9.Resume.

Thanks in advance..


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

Hi Rajji -

Thanks for the note and welcome to the forum. Unfortunately I cannot answer your question as I would need to review your actual documents and compare them to the current requirements for ICAA - this is what we do for clients we assist with skills assessment engagements. Would suggest you carefully study the ICAA requirements - especially fully recognised vs non fully recognised overseas accounting organisations, etc, plus the core units requirements.

Hope this helps -

Best,

Mark Northam


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## xxxxxxxxPrudhs (Oct 5, 2013)

Dear Mark

I have been looking at your advises in this forum for a while now and shall take this opportunity to appreciate your efforts which are actually more than what they mean. 

This is my FIRST post in this forum and shall be quick,

Holding Australian Visa for 3 years and 8 months by now. (3 years student and 8 months in 485). I have applied for NSW SS on July 26th for Soft Engg (Thank God just in time  ) and got that approved early this week with 65 points. 190 visa application is now lodged.

Now my question for you is, skill select tells 189 and 190 visa are both the same.
Esp'lly with the statement "A visa holder can live and work permanently anywhere in Australia". I understand the commitment to stay for two year period of time is with the state government but not with the immigration law as the visa label also states no conditions. Can you please elaborate this in detail. I live in Victoria, do I need to leave my place with in given 6 months time.??

Also, if I have to move NSW and get my arrival registered after 6 months, does this 6 month period that I lived in VIC on 190 visa is valid as PR( valid !!).
After my registration, does 6 months stay in NSW makes one year of stay or atleast ONE year as PR..?? I am looking forward for change of my citizenship for which one year PR is reqd. 

Does 2 years of stay has to be continuous period of time.?
Same with 1 year full time work..?? 

Your time is really appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Regards
Prudhvi


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

Hi Prudhvi -

The mechanics of the state sponsorship residence "commitment" are between you and the state that sponsors you, and there are no simple/easy answers. Beyond the fact that each state has different requirements and ways they interpret the 2 year commitment, keep in mind that this is a civil contract between you and the state, not a condition of your visa. Questions about when you have to locate there, what flexibility you might have negotiating a later arrival, what the state will do if you cannot find a job there (190 visa) and want a release letter to go move to another state, etc are all complex questions and dependent on a negotiation between you and your sponsoring state. It's not like the migration regulations where the regulations are (supposed to be, at least) clear and published for all to reference - state sponsorship policy and rules are much more inconsistent from state to state, and are often determined on the basis of individual requests to the state vs widely published policies that apply to all.

That being said, the issue of people being sponsored by a state and then moving to another state is a big problem for some states, and getting worse. The states are bound to get tougher with people about this, but they have their limits because a state cannot legally prevent you from moving to another state - it's a free country! Many times a well documented unsuccessful job search in a state can be a powerful tool in negotiating a release from your sponsorship obligation to the state under the 190 visa.

Re: PR time, once you're granted your 190 visa, you are a permanent resident for migration purposes and that time counts toward the 12 month PR resident requirement for citizenship if you're in Australia. What state you're in is not a consideration for this.

Hope this helps -

Best,

Mark Northam


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## Rajji (Oct 3, 2013)

MarkNortham said:


> Hi Rajji -
> 
> Thanks for the note and welcome to the forum. Unfortunately I cannot answer your question as I would need to review your actual documents and compare them to the current requirements for ICAA - this is what we do for clients we assist with skills assessment engagements. Would suggest you carefully study the ICAA requirements - especially fully recognised vs non fully recognised overseas accounting organisations, etc, plus the core units requirements.
> 
> ...


Hi,

Thanks a lot for your prompt reply. I will definitely go through the website and update my documents accordingly.


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## meg17 (Oct 7, 2013)

hi , My name is megha , i have my PR on 190 visa type for australia, i need to confirm if there are any conditions to stay in the state i have nomination from, as visa conditions are nil as per my grant .


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

Hi Meg -

Any conditions of living in the state that sponsored you would be included in the contract and paperwork you signed with the state as part of the sponsorship application/agreement. Most states require you to live there 2 years after arriving in Australia - that's why they sponsor you (not so you can move elsewhere). The restrictions are not a federal matter, so they are not a condition on your visa, but are a matter between you and the skilled visa authorities in the state that sponsored you.

Hope this helps -

Best,

Mark Northam


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## meg17 (Oct 7, 2013)

Mark...to my knowledge ive not signed any document lyk dat ...also checked vevo..noo conditions but ys that's true as per DIAC.. 2yrs stay ..but if u want to move we need to interact with state n get ok from them


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## xxxxxxxxPrudhs (Oct 5, 2013)

Thanks a ton Mark.

If so, I am just wondering can this 2 year stay condition can start in any time in the given 5 years, or should start as soon as I get the visa approved or at least after a 6 month period. I am more than happy to move to NSW - but with a secured job. Also, as your reply tells -"negotiation with State Govt" - can I do this after given 6 month period ?.

And also if I am moving after one year time would that mean I am violating any of their conditions applied, would this a matter of issue when applying for citizenship.

Prudhs


MarkNortham said:


> Hi Prudhvi -
> 
> The mechanics of the state sponsorship residence "commitment" are between you and the state that sponsors you, and there are no simple/easy answers. Beyond the fact that each state has different requirements and ways they interpret the 2 year commitment, keep in mind that this is a civil contract between you and the state, not a condition of your visa. Questions about when you have to locate there, what flexibility you might have negotiating a later arrival, what the state will do if you cannot find a job there (190 visa) and want a release letter to go move to another state, etc are all complex questions and dependent on a negotiation between you and your sponsoring state. It's not like the migration regulations where the regulations are (supposed to be, at least) clear and published for all to reference - state sponsorship policy and rules are much more inconsistent from state to state, and are often determined on the basis of individual requests to the state vs widely published policies that apply to all.
> 
> ...


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## bhupanderin (Oct 9, 2013)

*regarding experience and qualification match*

Dear sir

I have the following query regarding Australia immigration under skilled category

1 I want to know the how to arrange the job experience letter with job responsibilities because i have worked in 3 industries 
and all my employer gave me the experience letters of one page only which mentions my joining and exit date and 
department.what is the alternate procedure to prepare them. i don't expect my previous employer will help in this case

2 I am a diploma mechanical engineer by qualification its 3 year regular diploma from govt. college and i want to apply under the 
Air conditioning and refrigeration mechanic with requires AQF level 3 or 4 education as per Australia immigration website i want 
to know under this category my qualifications are ok or i am overeducated for this level because i have worked in 2 of my 
industries with were manufacturing air conditioners and i am well aware and experienced the job and responsibilities mentioned 
and required for above category i want to apply

please help me for above queries

thanks and regards
Bhupander singh


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## Theresaaiza (Apr 24, 2014)

*190 vs 189*



MarkNortham said:


> Hi Sibtain -
> 
> You are correct if your occupation is on both lists, you can apply for either visa. Both visas require a skills assessment and qualifying IELTS. The primary difference is that the 189 visa does not require a state sponsorship - if you have a relatively high points test score , this may be the visa for you as people are invited to apply for visas based on their points test score - higher scores get invitations sooner; lower scores get invitations later or not at all.
> 
> ...


Hello Sir,

Quick question:
1. I sent an EOI for 189 months ago and I opted to send an EOI for 190 at present forgetting to withdraw my 189 EOI. Am I not in trouble for putting forth two EOIs?

2. Since I forgot to withdraw my 189 (I wanted to because I only got 60 points with questionable 5 points for experience whereas, with 190 I have 5 points more which makes it 65), the IMMI kept on giving me invitation.

3. Both my EOIs I used same email address. Do you suppose Im still going to get an invitation for 190? Im scared that the recent invitation I got was for 190 but what was written was 189. Common sense would tell me it's for 189 but im just too panicky to think straight.

Thanks


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## rishabh (Apr 24, 2014)

Hi Mark

I had got the invitation for 190 visa for south australia in nov 13, made the payment and uploaded all the documents in the same month. 

CO was alloted last week of jan 14, PCC and medicals done in feb. I was following up for the grant with the case officer, but the last mail that I received mentioned something about the immigration planning levels which can delay this process further...

Need your help to know, by when can we expect the grant as there was no further requirement raised by the CO. 

Thanks


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

Hi -

Wish I could help, but DIBP processing times are highly unpredictable. The "planning levels" letter may indicate they had to push your processing back until after 1 July 2014 when the new processing levels for 2014-2015 become effective - I'd wait until the end of July and see what they say at that point.

Hope this helps -

Best,

Mark Northam



rishabh said:


> Hi Mark
> 
> I had got the invitation for 190 visa for south australia in nov 13, made the payment and uploaded all the documents in the same month.
> 
> ...


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## himpar1 (Nov 5, 2013)

Hi Mark, 

Glad to see interesting discussion. 
I would like to know one more thing on the possibility of getting PR under 190 state nomination. 

I have been working in development field for 9 years now. I would like to know what is the possibility of getting permanent residence visa under 190 for community worker occupation. I have done Bachelors and Masters degree in sociology from Nepal and have gained 9 years experience in community work through different organizations (NGOs and INGO). Previously I have already got IELTS 7 overall in academic (6 in one of the subjects). I am taking IELTS exam in coming July. I claim to score at least 60 points and hope for 5 points from state nomination. what is the probability for getting PR under 'community worker' as we hear mostly for technical jobs. I would be very grateful to hear from you. Thank you very much. 

Himpar1


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

Hi Himpar1 -

Currently it looks like TAS and NT are sponsoring Community Workers, assuming you can get IELTS and completed skills assessment from VETASSESS. This may change in July when the states are expected to release their new sponsorship lists for 2014-2015.

Best,

Mark Northam


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## himpar1 (Nov 5, 2013)

Thank you very much for your quick reply and useful information. I will keep in touch with you for further development.

Himpar


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## darian21 (Sep 2, 2014)

Hi All,

I'm new on this forum. Please see below my timeline

ACS 261111: 23/04/2013 IELTS: 08/06/2013 EOI: 01/07/2013 Lodged 189 online: 30/07/2013 Team 13 requested Form 80 and 1221: 14/08/2013 Form 80 submitted: 13/09/2013 Case Officer Team 2 : 26/09/2013 MCC /PCC: Awaited

Since i have been waiting for a year now for Medical and PCC should I generate HAPID and front load medicals.

Should I call IGIS as CO did not answer my last email sent a month ago?

Thanks in advance for you inputs


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## himpar1 (Nov 5, 2013)

himpar1 said:


> Thank you very much for your quick reply and useful information. I will keep in touch with you for further development.
> 
> Himpar


Hi Mark,

I would like to know one thing regarding VETASSESS Skills Assessment. Do we need to share/submit IELTS score to undergo VETASSESS skills assessment?

I would be very grateful to hear from you on this.

Best regards,

Himpar1


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

Hi Himpar1 -

Unlike some other assessors, VETASSESS does not require IELTS test results as part of their skills assessment process. However, these are necessary to lodge an EOI or apply for employment or skilled visas.

Hope this helps -

Best,

Mark Northam



himpar1 said:


> Hi Mark,
> 
> I would like to know one thing regarding VETASSESS Skills Assessment. Do we need to share/submit IELTS score to undergo VETASSESS skills assessment?
> 
> ...


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## himpar1 (Nov 5, 2013)

MarkNortham said:


> Hi Himpar1 -
> 
> Unlike some other assessors, VETASSESS does not require IELTS test results as part of their skills assessment process. However, these are necessary to lodge an EOI or apply for employment or skilled visas.
> 
> ...


Dear Mark,

Thank you very much for your quick response. Have a nice day!

Himpar


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## msadeed (Sep 21, 2014)

*Previous countries of residence question on online application form*

Dear All,

Can anyone help on this, while updating online 189 Application form using the immi account I have come accross the following question which has confused me that whether the answer can be *NO* if one has made short trips of 15-30 days.

Previous countries of residence
Have any of the applicants lived in a country other than the primary applicant's usual country of residence

Secondly what payment options we have if the credit card does not allow the limit equivalent to the total visa payment. Can we use the visa debit card instead of the credit card.

Thanks in advance.


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

Hi Msadeed -

The key word in your question is "lived" - if you consider that you were "living" in a country, then you should list that time in the question you mentioned, however if you were only temporarily visiting that country (ie, vacation, short trip for business, etc) and maintained your primary residence elsewhere, that may not count as "living" in the country. Note however that there is usually another question that asks for all "visits" to countries so that's where short trips, vacations, etc go.

Re: Visa debit card - this often will work, but if you have a deadline, best not to wait until the last minute to try the card. DIBP's systems process the entire fee (charge + credit card surchage) in a single charge - I'm not aware of any ability to split the charge up among multiple cards - you might contact them directly to see if that is an option if it is your only choice.

Hope this helps -

Best,

Mark Northam



msadeed said:


> Dear All,
> 
> Can anyone help on this, while updating online 189 Application form using the immi account I have come accross the following question which has confused me that whether the answer can be *NO* if one has made short trips of 15-30 days.
> 
> ...


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## Sibtain (Mar 20, 2013)

Hi Mark,

I wanted to ask you how much time does it take for the case officer to be appointed once a valid visa application is submitted with fees payment online through IMMI account?

Regards


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

Hi Sibtain -

Can be anywhere from a month or 2 to 5-6 months depending on the type of visa and current caseload. Also note that DIBP is often taking a "team approach" where teams work on large numbers of application and an application no longer has a dedicated case officer, etc.

Hope this helps -

Best,

Mark Northam



Sibtain said:


> Hi Mark,
> 
> I wanted to ask you how much time does it take for the case officer to be appointed once a valid visa application is submitted with fees payment online through IMMI account?
> 
> Regards


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## sriramvemuri (Jul 6, 2015)

*Have you ever lived in a country other than the primary applicant's usual ...........*



MarkNortham said:


> Hi Msadeed -
> 
> The key word in your question is "lived" - if you consider that you were "living" in a country, then you should list that time in the question you mentioned, however if you were only temporarily visiting that country (ie, vacation, short trip for business, etc) and maintained your primary residence elsewhere, that may not count as "living" in the country. Note however that there is usually another question that asks for all "visits" to countries so that's where short trips, vacations, etc go.
> 
> ...


Hi Mark

This is regarding the point in the visa application where I was asked if any of the applicants has ever lived in a country other the primary applicant's usual country of residence?

I had stayed in Europe on a business trip for a period of 3 months 27 days and 2 months in Malaysia again on a business trip. Should I be stating "Yes" for that question or including the travel details in Form 80 (if asked by the CO) would suffice?

Appreciate your help in this regard
BR//
Sriram


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

Hi -

Answered this on the Ask Mark! thread.

Best,

Mark



sriramvemuri said:


> Hi Mark
> 
> This is regarding the point in the visa application where I was asked if any of the applicants has ever lived in a country other the primary applicant's usual country of residence?
> 
> ...


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## Nishant022 (Dec 9, 2015)

*Subclass 190 Victoria*

Hi Mark,

I have a PR with subclass 190 and is sponsored by Victoria State. As per Victoria, I have to be in Victoria state for 2 years and cannot look for jobs in other states. I arrived in Australia in April and have been looking for a job since then, but have been unsuccessful. 
Could you please advise if there would be any implications on my PR if I pursue my job search in other states.
Looking forward to your reply.

Thanks

Nishant Rege


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

Hi Nishant022 -

You are already a permanent resident, so VIC cannot take that away from you. Beyond that, you'd need to look carefully at whatever agreement you may have signed or agreed to with VIC to see what breaking that agreement might result in, however that deal is not a term of your visa. Some people have also succeeded in getting "release letters" from some state sponsors after showing evidence of a good-faith employment search that has not resulted in any employment.

Hope this helps -

Best,

Mark Northam



Nishant022 said:


> Hi Mark,
> 
> I have a PR with subclass 190 and is sponsored by Victoria State. As per Victoria, I have to be in Victoria state for 2 years and cannot look for jobs in other states. I arrived in Australia in April and have been looking for a job since then, but have been unsuccessful.
> Could you please advise if there would be any implications on my PR if I pursue my job search in other states.
> ...


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## ghuman83 (May 9, 2013)

Dear all, 
I want to know that how much point I will get on 1/1/16 of age as my dob is 30 /12/1983.


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## Maggie-May24 (Jul 24, 2011)

ghuman83 said:


> Dear all,
> I want to know that how much point I will get on 1/1/16 of age as my dob is 30 /12/1983.


You can find the various points values on the DIBP website (click on the Points Test tab): Skilled Independent visa (subclass 189)


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## ghuman83 (May 9, 2013)

I am network engineer(optical transmission) in india.plz tell me the scope of optical jobs in Australia.


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## Toldo68 (Dec 24, 2015)

What exactly is Net assets ? I was required to do it by NT authority !


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## Alikiwi (Nov 29, 2015)

Basically it would refer to property/possessions you own outright I would think?


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## JandE (Jul 17, 2015)

Toldo68 said:


> What exactly is Net assets ? I was required to do it by NT authority !


Net assets is normally the value of everything you own, including bank accounts, less the debts that you have.


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## Toldo68 (Dec 24, 2015)

Thank you Ali and JandE .. What If I only have a property such as an apartment or/and a shop and it's values more than 40 AUD, will that be good enough?


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## Alikiwi (Nov 29, 2015)

$40? I presume you actually mean $40,000, then yes. Motor vehicle would count also or anything of reasonable value.


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## Maggie-May24 (Jul 24, 2011)

I've moved several posts to this thread from the Ask Mark! thread. Please do not respond to other posters in the Ask Mark! thread.


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## Toldo68 (Dec 24, 2015)

ok,thank you Maagie.


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## Toldo68 (Dec 24, 2015)

Alikiwi said:


> $40? I presume you actually mean $40,000, then yes. Motor vehicle would count also or anything of reasonable value.


oops sorry lol , yeah that's exactly what I meant.


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