# Centrelink - A warning!



## Arabella (Sep 18, 2015)

I was perhaps a bit naive in my understanding of Centrelink. Between March and October last year my then partner (now husband) was receiving AuStudy.

Me, not really realising that this was linked to his income and rent etc didn't realise it was a problem that Centrelink didn't know we were living together, until I read something on this forum.

He should've told Centrelink when we moved in together (there was a lot going on at the time, he forgot/didn't think about it) and I possibly would've told them had I known more about it.

I persuaded my husband that we should tell Centrelink, knowing that he probably should've already said something and that immigration might be in touch with Centrelink to see if they knew we were living together.

Anyway, to cut a long story short, we owe Centrelink in the region of $3,000 as he wasn't entitled to everything he got last year. It's better than the $9,000 they quoted originally but still a lot of money (especially as we're both currently looking for work).

So if your partner is claiming Centrelink and you are living together, make sure they know! We didn't do anything about it and we're now $3,000 worse off


----------



## Maggie-May24 (Jul 24, 2011)

The government is definitely cracking down more on this situation. I saw something on the news last week or the week before, where they reported I don't remember how many millions of dollars owed back to the government due to people who were claiming single benefits when it should have been family (through oversight like yours, or through deliberately not updating their status), claiming disabilities they didn't have, inaccurately reporting their income, etc.

It's certainly not worth the hassle of going through the investigation and clean-up, and can have repercussions on visas if you haven't declared your relationship.


----------



## Arabella (Sep 18, 2015)

I think I didn't realise cos it was related to the fact he was at uni rather than it being job seekers allowance or child benefit or something which I probably would've thought about more.


----------



## J&F (Nov 5, 2015)

On all the forms you sign with Centrelink, in all the offices you go to, in all communication you receive from them, there will be the phrase that says something like "You are to notify Centrelink immediately of any change in your circumstances". 

I honestly understand that for many people it is an oversight but for many others, it's not.

It's a bummer but you will just have to grin and bear it.


----------



## Arabella (Sep 18, 2015)

Oh yeah it's totally our (coughmyhusband'sfaultcough) for not realising/doing anything about it and $3,000 is much better than the $9,000 they originally said but it still sucks.


----------



## JandE (Jul 17, 2015)

This does need to be constantly reminded to people, both new arrivals and older residents.

The simple thing is that Centrelink give families (people who live together), financial assistance when needed based on TOTAL family income of any type, during the year.

Many couples claim for the higher single allowances and get caught later, having to repay.

Many families with kids claim for FTB (Family Tax Benefit) but at the end of the year find their income exceeds the threshold, and they have to repay.



> Figures indicate that one in 10 of all recipients, including students on Austudy and Abstudy, youth allowance and various parenting payments received more than they were entitled to between July and December 2014.
> 
> Private debt collectors recovered $124.8 million last financial year.
> According to the department, it recovers about 90 per cent of the total value of debts.
> ...


----------



## Arabella (Sep 18, 2015)

Yeah that's why I posted. If I'd read this post a year ago, I would've known we needed to tell Centrelink so hopefully this will help someone else.


----------



## J&F (Nov 5, 2015)

And I have said it before and I will say it again.... Centrelink are one of the best references you can have for immigration!!!


----------



## 218417 (Nov 6, 2015)

If it makes you feel a little better, it's not like you're having to pay a fine, just money you weren't entitled to according to them, so maybe think about it as an interest free loan haha! Plus they do allow really slow repayments, so it's not that daunting.


----------



## Arabella (Sep 18, 2015)

Kahliimah said:


> If it makes you feel a little better, it's not like you're having to pay a fine, just money you weren't entitled to according to them, so maybe think about it as an interest free loan haha! Plus they do allow really slow repayments, so it's not that daunting.


Yeah I know it's not a fine, but neither of us are really working right now (very very casual work the moment!) so it's kinda annoying!


----------



## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

Did you check to see if he falls under section 24 (I think that is the right section). I don't know the full rules around it but I believe it is applied when one partner cannot claim Centrelink so they treat the one that can as a single.

It is worth asking if you haven't as you may not need to pay back as much money.


----------



## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

J&F said:


> And I have said it before and I will say it again.... Centrelink are one of the best references you can have for immigration!!!


Definitely if you have Centrelink. ATO tax return is good evidence too


----------



## Arabella (Sep 18, 2015)

Mish said:


> Did you check to see if he falls under section 24 (I think that is the right section). I don't know the full rules around it but I believe it is applied when one partner cannot claim Centrelink so they treat the one that can as a single.
> 
> It is worth asking if you haven't as you may not need to pay back as much money.


No don't think so. Any idea where we'd find out?


----------



## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

Arabella said:


> No don't think so. Any idea where we'd find out?


Go to Centrelink and ask. You never know your luck


----------



## snowydragon (Jan 23, 2016)

Hi guys, Im hoping someone could give me some advice with a similar situation. My partner has been on and off centetlink. To my shock and horror she has just told me that she hasnt told Centerlink that we are in a defacto this entire time! Ive been reading around about how the immi requests information from centerlink so am desperately trying to figure out how to rectify the situation. I've told her that she needs to go in asap and tell them the truth but shes reluctant to do it because shes affraid in doing so it might draw attention to the whole application.

Obviously we cant keep ignoring it. I was on a very low income for the whole of 2015 as I struggled to find work but have been doing a lot better this past few months. She (re centerlink) basically supported both of us during the year before we moved interstate and things got a lot better. I think she was worried that we would end up with less of an income if she told them and to be honest, we were struggling, which is why we moved. It wasnt until the beginning of this year thst I finally found a steady job after 8 weeks of training (without pay). Just something we had to do to get ahead in life. So, I'm not the least bit concerned about paying back any money owed but am freaking out that the visa will be refused as were still waiting 14months from DOL.

I personally think the best thing to do is inform centerlink that weve been in a RL from the DOL. Would that make things right if immigration decided to look into it?

Also I see something about section 24 which might apply to our situation.

Thank you for helping..


----------



## JandE (Jul 17, 2015)

snowydragon said:


> I've told her that she needs to go in asap and tell them the truth but shes reluctant to do it because shes affraid in doing so it might draw attention to the whole application.


It will be much worse later..

She only has to go in and tell them, explain she didn't think about it until now.

It happens to many, they tend to only penalise those they find out about, not those who tell them when the realise.


----------



## Arabella (Sep 18, 2015)

I'd go in and tell them. You'll need to fill in a Partner Details form and submit it with a cover letter explaining the situation which is what we did.


----------



## snowydragon (Jan 23, 2016)

.pls see below


----------



## snowydragon (Jan 23, 2016)

Arabella said:


> I'd go in and tell them. You'll need to fill in a Partner Details form and submit it with a cover letter explaining the situation which is what we did.


Thanks guys, weve decided to do just that. Hopefuly immigration hasnt requested any information yet. If you dont mind me asking, do you think the amount well have to repay will be alot? How did you manage to get it down to $3000?


----------



## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

To my knowledge Centrelink and DIBP are data matching now to catch out people who are not declaring the relationship to Centrelink.

I would get her to do it ASAP as if/when DIBP finds out it could be a reason for rejection.


----------



## JandE (Jul 17, 2015)

They began data matching in May 2015.


----------



## JandE (Jul 17, 2015)

This was the original wording of the release.



> The intention is to identify possible visa and welfare frauds by comparing records of partner visa applicants (and their Australian sponsors) and Centrelink customers who claim that they are single. It is expected that both departments will be investigating from either end and providing suitable remedies if there is not a valid explanation.


----------



## snowydragon (Jan 23, 2016)

Mish said:


> To my knowledge Centrelink and DIBP are data matching now to catch out people who are not declaring the relationship to Centrelink.
> 
> I would get her to do it ASAP as if/when DIBP finds out it could be a reason for rejection.


Thanks Mish, are they data matching every application?


----------



## snowydragon (Jan 23, 2016)

JandE said:


> This was the original wording of the release.


Well I cant say I blame them! We will definitely be getting this sorted tomorrow. Can't believe we overlooked this..


----------



## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

snowydragon said:


> Thanks Mish, are they data matching every application?


One would think so if they are on Centrelink. One would think it would be similar to the ATO and Centrelink one with the income tax return but then I am not a data matching analysis person .


----------



## LadyRogueRayne (Aug 17, 2015)

So glad that my partner and I did declare our relationship to Centrelink when we got our house together. I'm applying for my skilled visa and not a partner visa; however, with the data matching going on, that could have been a nasty thing. Definitely better to do things by the book and be honest. It's well worth it in the long run.

On a side note, my partner's benefits did not go down. Maybe that is because I cannot receive Centrelink assistance yet? Just some food for thought there.


----------



## snowydragon (Jan 23, 2016)

Thanks heaps guys, we are just debating wether we should say weve been together since the DOL or just update tbe details from this point onwards. What I dont understand is wether or not DIBP and Centerlink are cross referencing the dates? Another problem is my partner hasnt updates our new address as she initially gave to centerlink her brothers address as we stayed there when we first moved up here. Its a lot of stuff to admit to centerlink in one sitting. This might be a question for a different thread ..


----------



## JandE (Jul 17, 2015)

snowydragon said:


> Thanks heaps guys, we are just debating wether we should say weve been together since the DOL or just update tbe details from this point onwards. What I dont understand is wether or not DIBP and Centerlink are cross referencing the dates? Another problem is my partner hasnt updates our new address as she initially gave to centerlink her brothers address as we stayed there when we first moved up here. Its a lot of stuff to admit to centerlink in one sitting. This might be a question for a different thread ..


It is highly feasible that DIBP will see what Centrelink sees, and visa versa.

Update things as soon as you can..


----------



## Aussie83 (Oct 15, 2015)

Keep in mind failure to update them can be taken as fraud.
If you are upfront then it could be taken as a mistake and you only have to repay the incorrect amount. If you wait for them to catch you then you at looking at potentially serious implications.


----------



## J&F (Nov 5, 2015)

Just to let you know about our experience with Centrelink and Immigration. 

We have been investigating the 104 week rule as there is some ambiguity in the wording through the DSS Act and I finally found the right person to talk to! This person at Centrelink actually matched up our records with Immigration (we went to the UK last year for 5 weeks) and Centrelink were able to tell us the day we left and returned from immigration records! They were also able to tell us the date of our 820 application and when we were to apply for the 801. So yes, the two do work together.

Just to clarify the 104 week rule. To obtain Centrelink benefits (with the exception of Special Benefit which has its own rules) you must have Permanent Residency and have lived in Australia continuously for 104 weeks. For 300 visa holders the 104 weeks begins from the date the 820 was lodged. From my chat with Centrelink they are still under the impression that permanent residency 801 visas are a tick and flick (they're a bit behind the times). In our situation as we were in the UK for 5 weeks, that time must be added to the 104 weeks that my husband has officially been living in Australia eg. our 801 date is 25 June which means the 104 week period is officially over on roughly 1 August (the 5 week extra time).

Special Benefit is payable in a number of circumstances while you are on an 820 visa. This includes if you were employed and that employment ceased while you were in Australia; serious illness that developed in Australia (my husband managed to get Ross River Virus late last year but is well on the mend now) or if the sponsor has been working and that employment ends. From memory I think the threshold for income before Special Benefit would be rejected is $300 but I don't remember is that was week or fortnight.

The joys of having an ex Benefits Agency (UK) assessor married to an ex Centrelink (Pensions) assessor. But don't hold it against us - we left to pursue other, wonderful careers (conservation ecology and bioethics!).

Cheers


----------



## Arabella (Sep 18, 2015)

snowydragon said:


> Thanks guys, weve decided to do just that. Hopefuly immigration hasnt requested any information yet. If you dont mind me asking, do you think the amount well have to repay will be alot? How did you manage to get it down to $3000?


We didn't do anything. Someone hadn't done their job properly. Initially someone rang and told us $9000 and then when my husband got off the phone, 10 minutes later they rang again and said it was actually $3000.

So if I don't qualify for Centrelink, is it possible that my husband was entitled to everything he got last year?


----------



## Arabella (Sep 18, 2015)

Section 24 sounds quite complicated, not sure if we would qualify.


----------



## J&F (Nov 5, 2015)

Arabella said:


> We didn't do anything. Someone hadn't done their job properly. Initially someone rang and told us $9000 and then when my husband got off the phone, 10 minutes later they rang again and said it was actually $3000.
> 
> So if I don't qualify for Centrelink, is it possible that my husband was entitled to everything he got last year?


I am unsure of the applicability of s.24 (right to be paid the single rate while in a relationship) to Austudy but it's well worth giving it a try. The application will take about a month and while the application is being assessed he will be paid the single rate (made it difficult for us at that time). If the application is successful they will repay the money lost while you were waiting.

You may be able to argue that s.24 has been applicable since the commencement of your relationship in Australia, but you really need to speak to the team who handle this type of situation. As he didn't declare the relationship that may muddy the water with Centrelink somewhat and, if you argue strongly enough, you may be okay.

Good luck


----------



## J&F (Nov 5, 2015)

By the way, Centrelink will not offer you section 24, you have to ask for it.


----------



## Arabella (Sep 18, 2015)

J&F said:


> By the way, Centrelink will not offer you section 24, you have to ask for it.


Yeah I kinda guessed that.

On the website though the example talks about people being lost at sea and their partner being eligible for s24 because the coroner won't declare them dead for two years unless the body is found. I'm not sure what our chances are haha!


----------



## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

snowydragon said:


> Thanks heaps guys, we are just debating wether we should say weve been together since the DOL or just update tbe details from this point onwards. What I dont understand is wether or not DIBP and Centerlink are cross referencing the dates? Another problem is my partner hasnt updates our new address as she initially gave to centerlink her brothers address as we stayed there when we first moved up here. Its a lot of stuff to admit to centerlink in one sitting. This might be a question for a different thread ..


I would assume they have access to all information. Someone I know that was om Centrelink got their benefits cut not long after they left Australia because they didn't tell them how long they were going away for. They were very fast to find out this information.


----------



## JandE (Jul 17, 2015)

Arabella said:


> Section 24 sounds quite complicated, not sure if we would qualify.


Section 24 generally applies when one partner is not allowed to work due to visa conditions.

This would then allow the claimant to be paid the single rate instead of the lower partner rate. 
eg:

New Start Allowance (per fortnight):
$523.40 Single rate
$472.60 Partnered rate

If the partner has a visa that allows work, but can't find work, and is also unable to claim Centrelink allowance (due to 104 week restriction), this may be considered, so that the claimant *may* again get the higher single rate. 
However, if Centrelink feel that the partner is not trying to get work, and doing other things, study etc, then they would logically be treated like any other Australian resident.


----------



## Arabella (Sep 18, 2015)

I think our chances are pretty slim given that I was working for about five months out of the 8 he was claiming.


----------



## JandE (Jul 17, 2015)

Mish said:


> I would assume they have access to all information. Someone I know that was om Centrelink got their benefits cut not long after they left Australia because they didn't tell them how long they were going away for. They were very fast to find out this information.


Centrelink are notified of everyone (_with a Centrelink account_) that leaves the country. It can be on your record the same day. They know exactly the dates you leave and return.

Same with the State departments of Motor Transport, for returning to the country (in my case).


----------



## JandE (Jul 17, 2015)

Arabella said:


> I think our chances are pretty slim given that I was working for about five months out of the 8 he was claiming.


Yes, it appears very slim now.

If you have worked in Australia before, it proves you can work, etc, just like any other Australian Resident, and will be treated as such. No special benefits.


----------



## Arabella (Sep 18, 2015)

JandE said:


> Yes, it appears very slim now.
> 
> If you have worked in Australia before, it proves you can work, etc, just like any other Australian Resident, and will be treated as such. No special benefits.


I'm resigned to it anyway so never mind.

We're still waiting on the letter to tell us when/how we have to pay back.

My husband's on about $100 a week at the moment and I've got full time work for the next three weeks but nothing guaranteed after that.  Will be working at the MCG when the footie starts but that's maximum 3 shifts a week.


----------



## JandE (Jul 17, 2015)

I have just read something else about this section 24:



> Decisions from the AAT and Federal Court indicate that ineligibility for social security, of itself, is very unlikely to constitute 'special reason' for the exercise of section 24. Decisions considering a person's financial difficulty is not, of itself, sufficient to constitute 'special reason'.


However, this seems at odds with this example quoted under: 2.2.5.50 Discretion to Treat a Person as Not Being a Member of a Couple for a Special Reason:



> Example: Sinead is in receipt of an income support payment and her partner, Hamish, has no financial resources to contribute to the relationship and has no income.
> Hamish may not be residentially qualified for income support or may be subject to a NARWP (104 week rule).
> The couple are unable to pool resources as a result of their circumstances.
> In such cases, and subject to all the usual means and assets tests, section 24 should generally be applied, but should be reviewed regularly to ensure that Sinead's partner has not recently become eligible for a social security payment, e.g. as a result of a 'substantial change in circumstances beyond their control'.


or


> Example 3: Brianna and Dianna have had to move from Queensland to Victoria for family reasons, and Brianna is now looking for work. Dianna is not able to work as she is only in Australia on a temporary non-working visa. As Dianna is not residentially qualified to claim an income support payment, only Brianna has some support in the form of PP. _Brianna and Dianna are in financial difficulty_ and so they have a special reason for the discretion under section 24 to be applied, therefore treating Brianna as single and paying her PPS.


It appears you need to prove both "Financial Difficulty" and "Legal Ineligibility to work for one partner".


----------



## J&F (Nov 5, 2015)

I think s.24 is mostly applicable if the applicant's main source of income is a Centrelink benefit. For example, if the benefit recipient is working and receiving minimum benefit support, then the s.24 would not apply, however, the recipient would then be paid at the partnered rate which would increase the amount they can earn before Centrelink cuts apply. 

It is a pretty fair system all round.


----------



## Maggie-May24 (Jul 24, 2011)

snowydragon said:


> Thanks heaps guys, we are just debating wether we should say weve been together since the DOL or just update tbe details from this point onwards. What I dont understand is wether or not DIBP and Centerlink are cross referencing the dates? Another problem is my partner hasnt updates our new address as she initially gave to centerlink her brothers address as we stayed there when we first moved up here. Its a lot of stuff to admit to centerlink in one sitting. This might be a question for a different thread ..


If you're applying for a partner visa as de facto, then you should update CentreLink and say you've been together since your de facto relationship began. Anything other than that would be incorrect, contradicting what you've told DIBP, and potentially fraud.


----------



## snowydragon (Jan 23, 2016)

Thanks for your input. We have notified Centerlink as to when our relationship began and are waiting to hear back from them. We shall see what they make of it.


----------

