# Visa condition 8558



## jwalit (Jan 5, 2016)

Hello all,
My mom is having 600 Tourist visa (3 year) which has condition 8558 says "Cannot Stay more than 12 months in any 18 month period"

Visa granted on 1st August 2013
Last Arrival date : 1st August 2016

below are her two visits to Australia :

First visit : 1st September 2013 to to 14th April 2014
Second visit : 30 January 2015 to 15th October 2015

Now she wants to plan to visit again. If she comes in Australia in Feb/March 2016, how long she can stay or in other words, when is the earliest she can come to stay for atleast 9 to 12 months ?

I have tried to call Immigration office in Delhi. After a long wait, I have got an answer that they can not help us, we have to calculate ourselves to plan a visit. (very frustrating) I have also asked for any online tool to calculate the visit so that we meet their visa condition but they were not able to help.

Can anyone help me understand how we should plan a visit?

Thank you


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## CCMS (Oct 10, 2013)

Edited: I thought I had an easy answer to this, but I am now doubting my calculations. There should be a simple formula for this, but it is pretty tricky. I'll have another look when I got a bit more time.


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## JandE (Jul 17, 2015)

From jan 2015 she has spent 8.5 months in Australia.
Therefore add 18 months to jan 2015 = july 2016.
She could arrive now and stay for 12 less 8.5 = 3.5 months.

If she arrives in May 2016 i would reckon she can spend 6 months.
Ie: 5/2015 to 11/2016 = 18 months
5/2014 to 10/2015 = 6 month stay
Then from 5/2016 for another 6 months.

But calculate exactly by days to get an accurate result. Mine is a rough example.


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## jwalit (Jan 5, 2016)

Thanks for your reply,

still confused.. if she comes before July 2016, she can stay for about 3 months, and then return back to stay for another 6 months?


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## JandE (Jul 17, 2015)

No, I don't think I explained it well enough.

Get a calendar that shows 18 months, and block of the periods she is/was here.

No more that 12 months is allowed in each 18 month block.
Must be outside Australia for at least 6 months in each 18 month block.

But she cannot arrive AFTER 1st August 2016.


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## jwalit (Jan 5, 2016)

Will do that,

thanks


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## Alikiwi (Nov 29, 2015)

By my reckoning she has used 9 months in her last stay, therefore she only has 3 months left available. It says a limit of 12 months. The only way around that would be if she didn't visit for 18 months after her last visit, but that takes he past the last entry date. So, as I say it looks like 3 months max to me.


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## ampk (Sep 21, 2013)

If you add 6 months to the last departure date (that makes the 18 month block) "15 October 2015" you have.
15 April 2016 as the date you can arrive for a full 12 month stay.
15 March will be 11 months and
15 February will be 10 month stay.

Note each day stayed on new arrival, a day of last 18 months block is removed (it is a sliding 18 months not a fixed day).

Pretty sure that is correct.


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## CCMS (Oct 10, 2013)

ampk said:


> If you add 6 months to the last departure date (that makes the 18 month block) "15 October 2015" you have.
> 15 April 2016 as the date you can arrive for a full 12 month stay.
> 15 March will be 11 months and
> 15 February will be 10 month stay.
> ...


I think you might be right. There must be a simple formula for this. I had a look at it before, but it ended up doing my head in...it might be the heat....


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## ampk (Sep 21, 2013)

I am sure on my one above.

The 18 months is rolling (resets itself each day) it does not have a start date.

I just saw a similar thing on another thread, it threw a few people there too.

A formula I think would be a bit tricky but not impossible, 

I think it is just easier to add 6 months to your last departure date, 
and know that is your 12 month max stay time. 
If you have less than 6m to add, you must deduct same number from 12m.

eg. only 1 month away from Oz = 12m - 5m ,so can only stay 7m.


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## CCMS (Oct 10, 2013)

ampk said:


> I am sure on my one above.
> 
> The 18 months is rolling (resets itself each day) it does not have a start date.
> 
> ...


Thanks, now I can rest easy and switch my brain off ! I'll make a note of this . I knew there had to be a simple way to solve this.


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## ampk (Sep 21, 2013)

Obviously the previous to last travel will need to be checked to see if it falls in the 18 month zone too. But the nature of this visa, I don't think it comes into account very often.


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## JandE (Jul 17, 2015)

How about this:

New Arrival date: 1/3/16

Days to Stay	107
Date to Arrive	01-03-16
Date to Leave	16-06-16


Leave Date:	16-06-16 
Date 18 Months before is: 17-12-14 

Stay between	17-12-14 and 15-10-15 

Works out at	30-01-15 to 15-10-15 = 258.00 actual days stayed in that period. 
This therefore allows 107.00 more days to stay, for a total of 365.00 days in the 18 months to 16-06-16 (the new leave date)

The figures are copied from a spreadsheet. 

I understand it as I created the spreadsheet, but does it make sense to anyone else?

I can see why the embassy could not do it for the OP, as it varies on the date they choose to travel.


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## ampk (Sep 21, 2013)

JandE

On 15 May 2016 under your above dates.

How many days (Nov 2014) in the last 18 months (counted on 15 May 2016) has the original OP mother been in Australia?


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## JandE (Jul 17, 2015)

ampk said:


> JandE
> 
> On 15 May 2016 under your above dates.
> 
> How many days (Nov 2014) in the last 18 months (counted on 15 May 2016) has the original OP mother been in Australia?


For the 18 months between 15-11-14 and 15-05-16 
In Australia between: 30-01-15 and 15-10-15 = 258.00 Days out of 365 allowed.


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## ampk (Sep 21, 2013)

How many days in Australia on 15 June 2016 in last 18 months (15 December 2014)?

Repeat for 3 more months and you will see the total number of days in Australia will peak and not increase and it will stay that way.

Soon you get to the point that even though OP mum was in Australia (it was at a date in the future) that is longer than 18 months ago on that date in the future and is no longer counted as part of the 12 months.


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## CCMS (Oct 10, 2013)

ampk said:


> How many days in Australia on 15 June 2016 in last 18 months (15 December 2014)? Repeat for 3 more months and you will see the total number of days in Australia will peak and not increase and it will stay that way. Soon you get to the point that even though OP mum was in Australia (it was at a date in the future) that is longer than 18 months ago on that date in the future and is no longer counted as part of the 12 months.


This is getting better all the time. Now if only someone could come up with a mathematical formula to cover all options...

Sent from my iPhone using Australia


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## ampk (Sep 21, 2013)

JandE be able to do that? and there is 3 year excel down load free calendar available. I can use numbers well on excel but never worked out dates.

And the fact it is rolling is tricky, but not impossible.


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## JandE (Jul 17, 2015)

ampk said:


> JandE be able to do that? and there is 3 year excel down load free calendar available. I can use numbers well on excel but never worked out dates.
> 
> And the fact it is rolling is tricky, but not impossible.


It is tricky. I am sure it can be done, and if I can set aside some time for it properly, I will.

In theory it is easy. 
Maybe ten years ago it would have been easier (for me)


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## CCMS (Oct 10, 2013)

JandE said:


> It is tricky. I am sure it can be done, and if I can set aside some time for it properly, I will. In theory it is easy. Maybe ten years ago it would have been easier (for me)


 haha, not only for you...

Sent from my iPhone using Australia


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## ampk (Sep 21, 2013)

Remember too it is "months" not 365 days. 

Feb is counted the same as a 31 day month in regard a visa.

Official 12 months in 18 months.


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## JandE (Jul 17, 2015)

But in some things immigration, they work on days.
That makes it confusing.


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## jwalit (Jan 5, 2016)

JandE said:


> How about this:
> 
> New Arrival date: 1/3/16
> 
> ...


not too sure if the embassy counts the days or months of each visit.. I won't be surprised if they consider month to month regardless of which date she in & out.. for example : if the visit dates are 29 Jan'15 to 3 march'15.. it can be counted as 35 days or 1/2/3 months..???

It's confusing.. I know I am over thinking but I don't want to give them a reason to blame us for over staying


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## jwalit (Jan 5, 2016)

I think the best thing to do is, we wait till April 2016 and then she can come and stay for 12 months straight.. that would be 6 months gap between her last departure (15th Oct'15) & next arrival (15th April'16)


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## ampk (Sep 21, 2013)

That is the only way to get 12 months, but if you gave an exact intended arrival date before that. It would be easy to give you the date she will need to depart. (always allow at least a day each side for a flight cancelation).

Then once she is here go to a Immigration department one day and have them confirm in writing that is correct.


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## jwalit (Jan 5, 2016)

ampk said:


> That is the only way to get 12 months, but if you gave an exact intended arrival date before that. It would be easy to give you the date she will need to depart. (always allow at least a day each side for a flight cancelation).
> 
> Then once she is here go to a Immigration department one day and have them confirm in writing that is correct.


21st April 2016..


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## ampk (Sep 21, 2013)

21 April 2016 is 6 months and 6 days out of Australia.

She can stay for 12 months - leave date will be 20 April 2017.


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