# is immigration racist



## nothappy (Mar 22, 2015)

hi all
My son in-law got his 801 partner visa application rejected. 

From Decision Record

Your father also stated that he had never met or been in contact with your sponsor and her family. Your father further stated that your elder brother is currently unmarried and that once a suitable bride had been found for your brother they would get you married, which clearly indicates that your father still considers you unmarried and does not recognise your relationship with your sponsor as genuine.

Has anyone else came across anything as strange as this.


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## aussiesteve (Mar 16, 2012)

nothappy said:


> hi all
> My son in-law got his 801 partner visa application rejected.
> 
> From Decision Record
> ...


Why would you say it is racist?? Race isn't mentioned at all!
Your problem is that father doesn't consider his son as married! Is your son in law married legally? Is there some sort of family disagreement?
Looks like you need a family conference to sort everything out.


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## nothappy (Mar 22, 2015)

He's been legally married for three years

Immigration accused him of filing a false bogus document [PIC 4020] by saying his father has never traveled to Australia or met me and my daughter. We sent them photocopies of passport entry to Australia and photos of his father with my daughter and me. They dropped the PIC 4020 allegation. They now say Immigration and the father don't recognize the marriage as genuine.

I think it is racist. Every one is free to have there own religion marry whoever they like etc without being dictated to by anyone else including parents. Having to follow an 
Indian tradition is racist


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## nothappy (Mar 22, 2015)

He's been legally married for three years

Immigration accused him of filing a false bogus document [PIC 4020] by saying his father has never traveled to Australia or met me and my daughter. We sent them photocopies of passport entry to Australia and photos of his father with my daughter and me. They dropped the PIC 4020 allegation. They now say Immigration and the father don't recognize the marriage as genuine.

I think it is racist. Every one is free to have there own religion marry whoever they like etc without being dictated to by anyone else including parents. Having to follow an 
Indian tradition is racist


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

Some immigration officers can be racist ... one forum member found this in Malaysia but we haven't seen any other people mention it.

Did what immigration say that your son-in-law's father say match with what immigration say he said?

Usually immigration won't reject just on one piece of evidence usually there are a few things that make them reject it.

Were either of them interviewed at all?


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## nothappy (Mar 22, 2015)

No my son in law or his wife were not interviewed


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## nothappy (Mar 22, 2015)

Your father also stated that he had never met or been in contact with your sponsor and her family. Your father further stated that your elder brother is currently unmarried and that once a suitable bride had been found for your brother they would get you married, which clearly indicates that your father still considers you unmarried and does not recognise your relationship with your sponsor as genuine.

The father has written an affidavit to say he never said the above. Immigration rejected his affidavit. 
The father has passport entry confirming he has visited Australia and photos of him meeting my daughter. 

The brother is 28 and a confirmed bachelor


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

Strange I wonder where they got that information from.

You can lodge an appeal with MRT. When you lodge a MRT application you can then request the file under FOI and get everything they used to form their decision.


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

Also what kind of evidence did they supply ... any joint financial evidence? Ie. Joint bank account, super, wills, joint bills?

It seems strange that they would base it just on one statement.

Usually we see 820's rejected not many 801's.


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## nothappy (Mar 22, 2015)

All the evidence immigration is using is what the parents said 
Immigration said, the father said the marriage is for visa purposes only the elder brother should marry first. The father has written an affidavit denying what the immigration officers say he said.
Immigration say the mother said she did not know sponsors name or where marriage took place etc.
The mother had a stroke 8 years ago and never held a conversation since. The part of the brain that works the facial muscles are permanently damaged 
[Dysarthris]


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## nothappy (Mar 22, 2015)

Immigration were able to make a mute person speak, the mute person was able to tell Immigration exactly what they were in India to discover. Unfortunately after immigration left she lost the powers of speech and became mute again.


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## nothappy (Mar 22, 2015)

Mish said:


> Also what kind of evidence did they supply ... any joint financial evidence? Ie. Joint bank account, super, wills, joint bills?
> 
> It seems strange that they would base it just on one statement.
> 
> Usually we see 820's rejected not many 801's.


Immigration did not interview the applicant relied only on what parents were suppose to have said


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

Did he previously hold an 820 and this was the 801 part or was this the first application?

Unfortunately the only thing you can do is lodge an appeal with MRT.

To me it seems unfair that they would do it on parents word as not everyone gets along with their in-law's.


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## aussiesteve (Mar 16, 2012)

nothappy said:


> Immigration did not interview the applicant relied only on what parents were suppose to have said


A very strange case indeed, your first comments about race may have some credence, it is not racisim as you would think, most case officers are locally recruited and therefore there is a possibility that a local has behaved in an improper manner towards your son in law. It has been encountered in other countries where local staff resent those coming to Australia.
I would definitely lodge an appeal with the MRT. Good luck.


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## nothappy (Mar 22, 2015)

Mish said:


> Strange I wonder where they got that information from.
> 
> You can lodge an appeal with MRT. When you lodge a MRT application you can then request the file under FOI and get everything they used to form their decision.


Thanks I have already don that

I rang immigration complain about 2 favorable phone conversation not being in the Decision Record. the officer I spoke to said there is no record of these conversations I actually witnessed one of them and my x wife the other


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## nothappy (Mar 22, 2015)

Mish said:


> Did he previously hold an 820 and this was the 801 part or was this the first application?
> 
> Unfortunately the only thing you can do is lodge an appeal with MRT.
> 
> To me it seems unfair that they would do it on parents word as not everyone gets along with their in-law's.


Exactly my point


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## Jeremy Hooper (Jul 10, 2014)

How did the Department get hold of your father's statement. I am sure that you would not have included a statement like that in you application submission.


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## nothappy (Mar 22, 2015)

Jeremy Hooper said:


> How did the Department get hold of your father's statement. I am sure that you would not have included a statement like that in you application submission.


They Interviewed the parents in India very strange even more strange is the parents said not one positive statement only negative statement 
What parent wants to sabotage there children


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

Some would want to sabotage them if they want them to come back to their home country ... but not many would want that because their aim usually is if their child is happy they are happy.

OP - which office was the application lodged? I vaguely remember a rejection with an Indian couple (not sure if both were or not) for the 820 at an office in Australia, not sure if same office or not. Also did he already hold the 820?


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## nothappy (Mar 22, 2015)

Mish said:


> Some would want to sabotage them if they want them to come back to their home country ... but not many would want that because their aim usually is if their child is happy they are happy.
> 
> OP - which office was the application lodged? I vaguely remember a rejection with an Indian couple (not sure if both were or not) for the 820 at an office in Australia, not sure if same office or not. Also did he already hold the 820?


Yes he held a 820 visa and been married 3 years. The office is in Melbourne my son in law is Indian my daughter is Astralian.


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

nothappy said:


> Yes he held a 820 visa and been married 3 years. The office is in Melbourne my son in law is Indian my daughter is Astralian.


I'm sorry to hear about it  good-luck with the MRT.

This is the 2nd case of recent we have heard where they have gone to interview the parents of the applicant.


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## nothappy (Mar 22, 2015)

Mish said:


> I'm sorry to hear about it  good-luck with the MRT.
> 
> This is the 2nd case of recent we have heard where they have gone to interview the parents of the applicant.


In the other case did the applicant get interviewed and was it a 801 visa


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

nothappy said:


> In the other case did the applicant get interviewed and was it a 801 visa


Sorry I can't remember if they got interviewed or not but it was an 801. I just remember that parents and parents neighbours was interviewed which I thought was strange since they live in Australia.


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## Gothenburg (Mar 6, 2015)

if it were racism, then surely all Indians applications would be dismissed if that was the case. To scream racism, as soon as one don't get the desired results.. is very low ..

Stick to hard facts..


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## Lahore (Oct 10, 2014)

To me it seems like his parents do not want him in Australia. But the question is why would DIAC rely on their information alone?


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## Simply (Aug 21, 2014)

Oh wow, seems like the father does not believe in mix marriages and does make the visa case look bad. Did the father submit the statement without your son in law/daughter reviewing it first?

I really hope the best for your situation.


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## nothappy (Mar 22, 2015)

Gothenburg said:


> if it were racism, then surely all Indians applications would be dismissed if that was the case. To scream racism, as soon as one don't get the desired results.. is very low ..
> 
> Stick to hard facts..


International Convention on Elimination of all forms of Racial discrimination.

Article 5
(iv) The right to marriage and choice of spouse;

International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights.

Article 23 
1. The family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society and is entitled to protection by society and the State.

According to United Nations convention on human rights it's Racism


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## Gothenburg (Mar 6, 2015)

nothappy said:


> International Convention on Elimination of all forms of Racial discrimination.
> 
> Article 5
> (iv) The right to marriage and choice of spouse;
> ...


That's something else than to get a permit for a permanent stay in a country where the person is not a citizen. .
Which is NOT only based by the right to marry by own choice. .


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## CCMS (Oct 10, 2013)

I'm not sure what is racist about the refusal of a bodged application where supporting witnesses did turn out not to be supportive...


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

The problem is:
1/ You don't know what his father said ... did his father actually say that and now saying that he didn't because he is found out or did immigration lie?
2/ We don't know what documents they submitted ... a successful application needs more than statements and photos.


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## Gothenburg (Mar 6, 2015)

First of all
I am not personally against that you're son in law gets a visa...
I don't want to be rude,
But to me , while reading the posts, it's seems like there is more than meets the eye.
correct me if I'm wrong.
Are you showing all thats related to this application?
Or are you just picking and choosing as you please?

Don't get me wrong, Im here to help.
not to make it hard for anyone..


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## nothappy (Mar 22, 2015)

Simply said:


> Oh wow, seems like the father does not believe in mix marriages and does make the visa case look bad. Did the father submit the statement without your son in law/daughter reviewing it first?
> 
> I really hope the best for your situation.


Immigration went o India and interviewed the parents they did not interview the applicant 
Immigration say father has never been to Australia and meet family.
The father has been to Australia twice, we go pass port entry and photos with my daughter he is fine with everything.
Immigration is lying 
Immigration claim they had a directly communicated with the mother she had a stroke 8 years ago and is mute we got doctors and neurologist to back that up.
Another lie from Immigration
Immigration says family traditional Indian family and older brother should marry first. He's a confirmed bachelor. He got tattoos eats meat never sends money back to family absolutely not a traditional family
More lies from Immigration. 
Immigration had positive phone call here in Australia none of them appear in natural justice or decision record letter.
Immigration was making phone calls if they were positive they deleted them from there records.
We have proof of 2 of these phone calls being deleted.

You have to have a good memory to tell lie. 
Decision record. Immigration say the mother had no knowledge of wedding.
When they interviewed the brother who was standing next to the mother Immigration said he knew who the people were who were in the wedding album.
How can you have a mother who has no knowledge about a wedding yet have a wedding album with wedding photos in her house.
More lies from Immigration.


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## nothappy (Mar 22, 2015)

Mish said:


> The problem is:
> 1/ You don't know what his father said ... did his father actually say that and now saying that he didn't because he is found out or did immigration lie?
> 2/ We don't know what documents they submitted ... a successful application needs more than statements and photos.


No we don't know what the father said because he was interviewed away from every one
But we know what the mother said because the elder brother had to speak on her behave even though the mother is mute she can still understand both mother and brother say Immigrations account of interview are lies


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## nothappy (Mar 22, 2015)

Gothenburg said:


> First of all
> I am not personally against that you're son in law gets a visa...
> I don't want to be rude,
> But to me , while reading the posts, it's seems like there is more than meets the eye.
> ...


When my son in law gets home I will see if he can post both natural justice and decision record


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## Gothenburg (Mar 6, 2015)

nothappy said:


> When my son in law gets home I will see if he can post both natural justice and decision record


Good idea.
I guess when Immigration has got it wrong,
it takes alot to change their wiew..
Don't give up.


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## Maggie-May24 (Jul 24, 2011)

If your son has proof of these allegations, then he should lodge an application with MRT.


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## CollegeGirl (Nov 10, 2012)

Your only recourse is going to be MRT. Get a really good MARA-registered agent on board.


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## nothappy (Mar 22, 2015)

Gothenburg said:


> Good idea.
> I guess when Immigration has got it wrong,
> it takes alot to change their wiew..
> Don't give up.


At the moment our concerns are with the manager of permanent partner section.
I hope she does an investigate like she promised and not just a not just a cover up like the global feedback unit and the teem leader.


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## nothappy (Mar 22, 2015)

Maggie-May24 said:


> If your son has proof of these allegations, then he should lodge an application with MRT.


He has lodged with MRT
I explained the situation with a solicitor he said it is ludicrous the reasons why immigration canceled the visa application
the father has an Indian tradition. Now immigration is a police force enforcing Indian traditions. What a joke.


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## CCMS (Oct 10, 2013)

Still don't see where the racist element comes into it. 

I have been told by people with some inside knowledge that local staff at certain overseas processing centres can be very spiteful and refuse visas out of jealousy.

It is hard to believe that such unprofessional conduct exists, but apparently it does.


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## nothappy (Mar 22, 2015)

CCMS said:


> Still don't see where the racist element comes into it.
> 
> I have been told by people with some inside knowledge that local staff at certain overseas processing centres can be very spiteful and refuse visas out of jealousy.
> 
> It is hard to believe that such unprofessional conduct exists, but apparently it does.


International Convention on Elimination of all forms of Racial discrimination.

Article 1
1. In this Convention, the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.
Article 5
d) Other civil rights, in particular:
(i) The right to freedom of movement and residence within the border of the State;
(ii) The right to leave any country, including one's own, and to return to one's country;
(iii) The right to nationality;
(iv) The right to marriage and choice of spouse;
(v) The right to own property alone as well as in association with others;
(vi) The right to inherit;
(vii) The right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion;
(viii) The right to freedom of opinion and expression;
(ix) The right to freedom of peaceful assembly and association;

statement from Immigration
"Your father stated that he has two sons. He stated that his eldest son, who is your elder brother, is single, and according to Indian traditions he will look for an appropriate bride for your elder brother first, and then he will think about your wedding"

It is racism if anyone is forced to follow a racial tradition such as the above. 
Immigration acted as a police force to uphold the father's Indian tradition = racism


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## aussiesteve (Mar 16, 2012)

nothappy said:


> He has lodged with MRT
> I explained the situation with a solicitor he said it is ludicrous the reasons why immigration canceled the visa application
> the father has an Indian tradition. Now immigration is a police force enforcing Indian traditions. What a joke.


Well if he has lodged an appeal the truth will come out, though it may not necessarily be what you think it may be!
I would speak to a registered migration agent as most solicitors have little idea of DIBP rules.( this is evident by the solicitor's comment that the immigration had cancelled the application, when in fact they will either grant a visa or refuse it.)


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## CCMS (Oct 10, 2013)

aussiesteve said:


> Well if he has lodged an appeal the truth will come out, though it may not necessarily be what you think it may be!
> I would speak to a registered migration agent as most solicitors have little idea of DIBP rules.( this is evident by the solicitor's comment that the immigration had cancelled the application, when in fact they will either grant a visa or refuse it.)


Unless they specialise in immigration, your average solicitor knows very little about immigration. Even some of the ones that do it as part of their overall practice seem surprisingly clueless at times.


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## Gothenburg (Mar 6, 2015)

nothappy said:


> International Convention
> 
> statement from Immigration
> "Your father stated that he has two sons. He stated that his eldest son, who is your elder brother, is single, and according to Indian traditions he will look for an appropriate bride for your elder brother first, and then he will think about your wedding"
> ...


For some reason the immigration have got the impression that there is something dodgy going on..

Shouldn't you put more effort in to changing the immigrations weiw in this case..
..than to try to convince your interpretation as if it is purely a RACIST verdict.. ??


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## NiallC33 (Feb 3, 2014)

there is some absolute nutcases that frequent this place. labelling a whole section of an establishment racist is laughable because they dared to refuse your visa because you couldnt make a compelling case and this somehow equates to racism!!!!!!

It actually shows they are doing a good job by closing its doors to fruitloops


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## nothappy (Mar 22, 2015)

NiallC33 said:


> there is some absolute nutcases that frequent this place. labelling a whole section of an establishment racist is laughable because they dared to refuse your visa because you couldnt make a compelling case and this somehow equates to racism!!!!!!
> 
> It actually shows they are doing a good job by closing its doors to fruitloops


Thanks for your post Niall33 it' posts like yours that make the rest of our posts look good
You know stand next to a fat person makes you look thinner
Stand nex to Niall33 wee all look sane,


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## chicken999 (May 2, 2013)

Was your case officer Indian? I'm the person who Mish referred to and our case officer was 100% racist. Indians in Malaysia hate Africans it's a fact. We submitted a tonne if evidence were together 3 years at time of refusal visited Malaysia 19 times in 3 years and every reason they gave us for refusal was a lie and lot based on the idiot case officers idea of traditional african relationships which were simply not true. So yes racism exists in case officers. Just because it didn't happen to u Niall doesn't mean it doesn't happen.


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## GBP (Jun 1, 2013)

nothappy said:


> statement from Immigration
> "Your father stated that he has two sons. He stated that his eldest son, who is your elder brother, is single, and according to Indian traditions he will look for an appropriate bride for your elder brother first, and then he will think about your wedding"
> 
> It is racism if anyone is forced to follow a racial tradition such as the above.
> Immigration acted as a police force to uphold the father's Indian tradition = racism


The DIBP is saying that they are not satisfied that the applicant and sponsor are married because of the statement from the father. There is nothing racist here. The DIBP didn't say "the applicant and sponsor have to follow the tradition, otherwise no visa will be granted". So, where is the "force"?


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## nothappy (Mar 22, 2015)

GBP said:


> The DIBP is saying that they are not satisfied that the applicant and sponsor are married because of the statement from the father. There is nothing racist here. The DIBP didn't say "the applicant and sponsor have to follow the tradition, otherwise no visa will be granted". So, where is the "force"?


Your father further stated that your elder brother is currently unmarried and that once a suitable bride had been found for your brother they would get you married, which clearly indicates that your father still considers you unmarried and does not recognise your relationship with your sponsor as genuine.

Immigration put this in the Decision Record as part of there evidence the marriage is not genuine 
The father and immigration are trying to enforce the father's Indian tradition. = racism


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## GBP (Jun 1, 2013)

nothappy said:


> Your father further stated that your elder brother is currently unmarried and that once a suitable bride had been found for your brother they would get you married, which clearly indicates that your father still considers you unmarried and does not recognise your relationship with your sponsor as genuine.
> 
> Immigration put this in the Decision Record as part of there evidence the marriage is not genuine
> The father and immigration are trying to enforce the father's Indian tradition. = racism


the point is the DIBP is not satisfied that the relationship is genuine because of what the father said. Not due to the fact that the brother is not married.

Anyway, it is such a complex case. Good luck.


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## nothappy (Mar 22, 2015)

chicken999 said:


> Was your case officer Indian? I'm the person who Mish referred to and our case officer was 100% racist. Indians in Malaysia hate Africans it's a fact. We submitted a tonne if evidence were together 3 years at time of refusal visited Malaysia 19 times in 3 years and every reason they gave us for refusal was a lie and lot based on the idiot case officers idea of traditional african relationships which were simply not true. So yes racism exists in case officers. Just because it didn't happen to u Niall doesn't mean it doesn't happen.


Case officer is Malaysian

She completely made up the evidence. But they made a big big mistake when they contributed adverse comments to the mother, she had a stroke 8 years ago and is mute she has dysarthria [that is the part of the brain that controls facial muscles dies you cant form words]she has not held a conversation in 8 years; we have Neurology and doctors reports to back this up
In 2010 the mother applied for a visa to travel to Australia, she failed the medical because of her condition dysarthria, she couldn't speak to the doctor. 
This is the lie we are going to make Immigration accountable for


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## nothappy (Mar 22, 2015)

GBP said:


> the point is the DIBP is not satisfied that the relationship is genuine because of what the father said. Not due to the fact that the brother is not married.
> 
> Anyway, it is such a complex case. Good luck.


Your father further stated that your elder brother is currently unmarried and that once a suitable bride had been found for your brother they would get you married, which clearly indicates that your father still considers you unmarried and does not recognise your relationship with your sponsor as genuine.

Immigration put this in the Decision Record as part of there evidence that the marriage is not genuine 
The father and immigration are trying to enforce the father's Indian tradition. = racism


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## nothappy (Mar 22, 2015)

December 2014

Mr Sxxx Txxx

In reply please quote:
Client Name Sxxx Txxx
Date of Birth 09 December 1990
Date of Visa Application 24 April 2012
Application ID xxxx
File Number CLxxxx

Transmission Method Post

Dear Mr Txxx

Invitation to comment on information for a Partner (Residence) (class BS) (subclass 801)
visa

In the course of assessing your application for a partner visa, the department has received
unfavourable information which does not support your application.

In accordance with section 57 of the Migration Act 1958 (the Act), I am writing to advise you that information has been received which a delegate of the Minister considers would be the reason, or a part of the reason, for refusing to grant a visa.

The department has conducted checks to confirm the information that you provided in
your application. Departmental officers in India conducted an interview with your parents
Mr Bxxx Bxxx Txxx and Mrs Vxxx Bxxx Txxx on 27 November 2014. The
following information was provided during the home visit:

✃ Your father stated that he has two sons. He stated that his eldest son, who is your elder
brother, is single, and according to Indian traditions he will look for an appropriate bride
for your elder brother first, and then he will think about your wedding;

✃ You father stated that he does not know your sponsor's name;

✃ Your father stated that he has never met or spoken to your sponsor or her family, and
does not know their names;

Permanent Partner Processing Centre - Victoria
OFFICE:Casselden Place 2 Lonsdale Street Melbourne VIC 3000
POSTAL:GPO Box 241 Melbourne VIC 3001
EMAIL: [email protected] WEBSITE: Australian Government Department of Immigration and Border Protection

- 2 -

✃ Your father stated that you had informed him post-marriage that you got married for
visa purposes, and that you told him that the easiest and quickest way to get a permanent
residence is by getting married to an Australian citizen;

✃ Your mother also stated that your informed her post-marriage that you had married an
Australian citizen;

✃ Your mother stated that she has never spoken or met your sponsor and her family, and
does not know your sponsor's parents' names;

✃ Both your father and your mother were not aware of your sponsor's medical condition.

Clause 801.221(2) of the Migration Regulations 1994 requires that for the grant of the
Subclass 801 visa that you continue to be sponsored by your partner and that you are the
spouse of the sponsor. Failure to meet this requirement may result in refusal to grant the
Subclass 801 visa and the cessation your Subclass 820 visa. You are invited to comment on the information stated above.

Please refer to the attachment "Legislation applicable to your circumstances" at the end of
this letter for an extract of the meanings of "spouse" and "de facto partner" as prescribed in the Migration Act 1958 that are required to be applied in this case.

Before a decision is made on your application, you have the opportunity to provide a response to the unfavourable information received by the department. Please be aware that if you choose not to provide comment or submit any additional information within the prescribed timeframe, a decision may be made based on information available at the time. It is a requirement for the grant of a Partner (subclass 820) visa that the applicant satisfies Public Interest Criterion (PIC) 4020 contained in clause 4020 of Schedule 4 to the Migration Regulations 1994. Subclause 4020(1) requires that there is no evidence before the Minister that the applicant has given, or caused to be given, to the Minister, an officer, the Migration Review Tribunal, a relevant assessing authority or a Medical Officer of the Commonwealth, a bogus document or information that is false or misleading in a material particular in relation to:

● the application for the visa; or 
● a visa that the applicant held in the period of 12 months before the application was made.

If there is such evidence, subclause 4020(4) provides that PIC 4020(1)(a) or (b) and subclause
4020(2) will nonetheless be satisfied if the Minister is satisfied that:

● compelling circumstances that affect the interests of Australia; or

● compassionate or compelling circumstances that affect the interests of an Australian
citizen, an Australian permanent resident or an eligible New Zealand citizen;
justify the grant of the visa.
- 3 -

As there is evidence suggesting that you have provided, or caused to be provided, a bogus
document or false or misleading information in relation to this visa application, you may fail
to satisfy PIC 4020(1), with the result that this visa application may be refused.

Permanent Partner Processing Centre - Victoria
OFFICE:Casselden Place 2 Lonsdale Street Melbourne VIC 3000
POSTAL:GPO Box 241 Melbourne VIC 3001
EMAIL: [email protected] WEBSITE: Australian Government Department of Immigration and Border Protection

You stated in your relationship history statement that your father travelled to Australia in
2011 and he went to Clunes and met your sponsor Louise and her father. You also stated that your father really like your sponsor and her father.

However during the departmental interview with your parents on 27 November 2014, both your mother and your father stated that they have never met or spoken to your sponsor or her family, and do not know their names.

Your father stated that you had informed him post-marriage that you got married for visa
purposes, and that you told him that the easiest and quickest way to get a permanent residence is by getting married to an Australian citizen.

Therefore it appears that you have provided false and misleading information about the
social recognition of your relationship and that you appeared to have entered into a contrived marriage for the sole purpose of gaining Australian permanent residence.

You may provide comment on the information that is considered to be false or misleading
or the document that is considered to be bogus, and specify if you believe there are any
compelling circumstances affecting the interests of Australia, or compassionate or compelling circumstances affecting the interests of an Australian citizen, an Australian permanent resident or an eligible New Zealand citizen, to justify the waiver of any or all of PIC 4020(1) and (2) to justify the granting of the visa.

Timeframe for response
You must respond to this invitation to comment within 28 days after you are taken to have received this letter. You should provide your response in writing.

Please send your response to me using the contact details provided below.
Attn: Lxxx Dxxx
Permanent Partner Processing Centre - Victoria
Department of Immigration and Border Protection
GPO Box 241
MELBOURNE VIC 3001


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

nothappy said:


> Immigration put this in the Decision Record as part of there evidence the marriage is not genuine
> The father and immigration are trying to enforce the father&#146;s Indian tradition. = racism


Are you able to post the entire decision (don't post personal information). Just wondering if there is also something in there that tells us more.

I am confused since previously you said that the father didn't say any of those things to immigration but now it seems like you are saying that he did.


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## CCMS (Oct 10, 2013)

The visa was refused. You have the option to appeal. Wouldn't you better be better off to leave it at that instead of playing this out on a public forum? Unless your parents are lying or the DIBP has been misrepresenting their evidence, I can't see you have much of a case. By the looks of it your parents provided some very unfavourable evidence. I suggest you find someone who is experienced with difficult appeal cases and go from there. I still don't see the racist angle though.


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## Valentine1981 (Sep 13, 2012)

nothappy said:


> December 2014
> 
> ✃ Your father stated that you had informed him post-marriage that you got married for
> visa purposes, and that you told him that the easiest and quickest way to get a permanent
> ...


Have to be honest - this looks pretty bad and you never mentioned this aspect of the refusal in your initial post. While other members have unfortunately experienced racism at the hands of a CO - to make up something this major would be a whole new level of messed up and twisted


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## nothappy (Mar 22, 2015)

Mish said:


> Are you able to post the entire decision (don't post personal information). Just wondering if there is also something in there that tells us more.
> 
> I am confused since previously you said that the father didn't say any of those things to immigration but now it seems like you are saying that he did.


The father has written an affidavit to say everything attributed to him are lies

When trying to explain racist aspect it gets to complicate to say Immigration ore only lying about what father said


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## nothappy (Mar 22, 2015)

Valentine1981 said:


> Have to be honest - this looks pretty bad and you never mentioned this aspect of the refusal in your initial post. While other members have unfortunately experienced racism at the hands of a CO - to make up something this major would be a whole new level of messed up and twisted


It is total lie the father never said that


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## nothappy (Mar 22, 2015)

Valentine1981 said:


> Have to be honest - this looks pretty bad and you never mentioned this aspect of the refusal in your initial post. While other members have unfortunately experienced racism at the hands of a CO - to make up something this major would be a whole new level of messed up and twisted


They made up a mute person never spoken in 8 years spoke to them unaided we got doctors report to say she can't speak 
Immigration totally lie about this

In the decision record letter PIC 4020 is mention 8 times 
They said father has not been to Australia and met sponsor and father 
In the decision record they drop the PIC 4020 allegation because we could show passport entry and photos of father and sponsor together


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

This looks like a complex case therefore you will need a really good migration agent experienced in these kinds of cases to help.

My thoughts are that there has to be something in what they lodged with the 801 that made the case officer doubt the relationship. It is very rare for them to interview the parents of the applicant in the applicants home country.

From what the decision said, the case officer did not interview the applicant it was someone from the Australian embassy in India that did.

From what I read they are saying that there were fraudulent claims submitted. This kind of claim is very serious, therefore you will need the best to help.


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## nothappy (Mar 22, 2015)

M10 (October 2014) 6
Decision Record

File reference: xxxxxxxx
Request ID: xxxxxxxx
Client ID: xxxxxxxxx
Applicant: Sxxx Txxx
Applicant Date of Birth: 9 December 1990

Sponsor Details
Sponsor: Lxxx Fxxx Cxxx
Sponsor Date of Birth: 21 March 1988
Client ID: xxxxxxxxxx

Details of visa application
Visa Class: Partner (Residence) Class (BS)
Visa Subclass: 801 (Partner)
Date of Visa Application: 24 April 2012

The applicant’s claims
You lodged a valid application for a Partner (Temporary) (Class UK) (Subclass 820) visa and a Partner (Residence) (Class BS) (Subclass 801) visa on 24 April 2012, on the grounds of being in a spousal relationship with an Australian citizen, Ms Lxxx Fxxx Cxxxx (your sponsor), who lodged a sponsorship in support of the application. You were granted a subclass 820 visa on 13 May 2013.

The request for documentation was sent to your former migration agent on 17 February 2014. A response to the request was received on 6 May 2014.

Departmental officers from the New Delhi office conducted a site visit to your parents’ home in India on 27 November 2014 where your parents and your brother were interviewed.

A letter was sent to you on 11 December 2014 providing you with an opportunity to comment on the information provided by your parents during the site visit.

Your father-in-law, Mr Dxxx Cxxx, contacted the department on 12 December 2014 and disputed the information provided to departmental officers during the site visit in India. Mr Cxxx also accused the departmental officers in India of providing false and misleading information. You provided a formal written response to the natural justice letter on 19 December 2014. You have also submitted some supporting documents including declarations from your father-in-law and your brother, an affidavit from your father, and some photographs. You stated in your response that you believe you have the evidence to show that the information from the departmental officers in India is false and misleading.

2
As this is an allegation made against the departmental officers in India, the information was referred to the departmental office India on 9 January 2015 for comment. A response from India was received on 22 January 2015.

Information and evidence considered
I am a delegated decision maker under Section 65 of the Migration Act 1958 (the Act). In reaching my decision, I have considered the following: 

•relevant legislation contained in the Act and Migration Regulations 1994 (the Regulations);
•information contained in the department’s policy guidelines Procedures Advice Manual 3;
•other relevant information held on departmental files.

Findings
From all the information available to me, including the documents and information the applicant provided, I find that the criteria for the grant of a Partner (Residence) (Class BS) (Subclass 801) visa are not met by the applicant.

Reasons
I have assessed the application by the applicant and the reasons for my decision are detailed below.

An application for a Partner (Residence) (Class BS) (Subclass 801) visa has been made by the applicant.

Under the migration law, a visa cannot be granted unless the applicant meets the relevant legal requirements that are specified in the Act and the Regulations. Clause 801.221 of Schedule 2 to the Regulations has not been met by the applicant on the date I made my decision.

Subclause 801.221(1) requires that a (primary) applicant must, at time of decision, satisfy subclause (2), (2A), (3), (4), (5), (6), or (8) of clause 801.221.

I have considered subclauses (2A), (3), (4), (5), (6) and (8) and I find that your circumstances do not fall within those provisions. I therefore find that you do not satisfy any of them.

I have assessed your application under Subclause (2) of clause 801.221. Subclause (2) requires that you are, at time of decision, the spouse or de facto partner of the sponsoring partner. The definition of spouse is given in section 5F of the Act and the definition of de facto partner is given in section 5CB of the Act. The definitions are shown in the attachment provided.


3

When assessing whether you satisfy the definition of a spouse as per section 5F of the Act, I must, by law, consider all the circumstances of the case, including the matters prescribed in regulation 1.15A. The same matters are prescribed in regulation 1.09A and, by law; I must consider them when assessing whether you satisfy the definition of a de facto partner as prescribed in section 5CB of the Act. My assessment of the prescribed matters is as follows:

Financial Aspects
I have considered the financial aspects of your relationship with your sponsor, including any joint ownership of real estate or other major assets, any joint liabilities, the extent of any pooling of financial resources, especially in relation to major financial commitments, whether one person in the relationship owes any legal obligation in respect of the other, and the basis of any sharing of day-today household expenses.

You and your sponsor stated in your statutory declarations that you are unemployed and that your sponsor is on a disability pension. You stated that you live at your sponsor’s father’s home for free and therefore you do not have many expenses except for food. You also stated that you have joint bank account with your sponsor. In support of your claims, you provided an ANZ bank statement in joint names covering the periods 27 June 2012 to 17 September 2012, 27 September 2012 to 27 December 2012, 27 March 2013 to 27 June 2013, 27 June 2013 to 27 September 2013, and 27 September to 27 December 2013.

Nature of the Household
I have considered the nature of the household, including any joint responsibility for the care and support of children, the living arrangements of you and your sponsor, and any sharing of the responsibility for housework.

You and your sponsor both stated in your statutory declarations that you live at your father-in-law’s home, that you do the cooking, and that your sponsor does the cleaning. You also stated that you teach your sponsor to cook food.

You provided a copy of an appointment advice from the Disability Employment Services and a tax invoice from Homecare Plus addressed to your sponsor.

Social Aspects
I have considered the social aspects of the relationship, including whether you and your sponsor represent yourselves to other people as being married to each other, the opinion of you and your sponsor’s friends and acquaintances about the nature of the relationship, and any basis on which you and your sponsor plan and undertake joint social activities.


You provided forms 888 completed by your father-in-law and your brother in which they both stated that they believe your relationship with your sponsor to be genuine and continuing.


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## nothappy (Mar 22, 2015)

4

You provided two tickets to Hisense Arena. You also provided some photographs taken of you and your sponsor in social settings. As the photographs are not dated and captioned, it is unclear when the social events occurred and therefore whether they are relevant to whether you have continued to be the spouse or de facto partner of your sponsor following the grant of your subclass 820 visa.

You also provided some greeting cards either in your name or in joint names with your sponsor.

Nature of the Commitment of the Relationship
I have considered the nature of you and your sponsor’s commitment to each other, including the duration of the relationship, the length of time during which you and your sponsor have lived together, the degree of companionship and emotional support that you and your sponsor draw from each other, and whether you and your sponsor see the relationship as a long-term one.

You stated in your statutory declaration that you love your sponsor, that you understand her disability, and that you want to help her in the long-term. Your sponsor also stated that she loves you and that you are her best carer.

You had previously provided the department a written statement stating that your father had traveled to Australia in 2011 and met your sponsor and her father, and that your father really liked your sponsor and her father.

During the departmental interview in India, your father stated that although he was aware of your marriage, he does not know when you were married or your sponsor’s name. Your father also stated that he had never met or been in contact with your sponsor and her family. Your father further stated that your elder brother is currently unmarried and that once a suitable bride had been found for your brother they would get you married, which clearly indicates that your father still considers you unmarried and does not recognise your relationship with your sponsor as genuine.

Your father stated that you informed him post-marriage that you got married your sponsor for visa purposes, and that you told him that the easiest and quickest way to obtain Australian permanent residency is by getting married to an Australian citizen. Your father further stated that he is ashamed that his son got married to a girl only for visa and he is unhappy that his son is spoiling someone’s daughter’s life.

Your mother stated that she was aware of your marriage but that she only knows your sponsor’s first name and does not know when and where your marriage took place. Your mother stated that she had never met or spoken to your sponsor and her family and does 



5
not know your sponsor’s parents’ names. Your mother also stated that you informed her post-marriage that you had married an Australian citizen.

Your brother Vxxx Txxx was also interviewed by departmental officers in India. Your brother stated that he was aware of your marriage as he was a witness at the wedding. Your brother stated that he knew name of your sponsor and a few of her family members.

When you were provided an opportunity to comment on the information detailed above, you provided an affidavit from your father dated 12 December 2014 stating that you had married your sponsor, that he had met your sponsor and her father during his trip to Australia in 2011, and that you informed him that you would marry your sponsor in 2012. Your father also stated that he had met your sponsor and her father again in 2013. Your father stated that your mother has been in touch with your sponsor via telephone. I note that this is inconsistent with your mother’s statement during the interview in India that she had never met and spoken to your sponsor and her family.

In your response provided on 19 December 2014, you submitted photographs of gifts and cards your mother sent to you and your sponsor. You stated that during the interview in India, your father was never asked a question that would require him to make statement about your getting married to an Australian citizen to gain permanent residency. You also stated that your mother has difficulty speaking and that your brother had to talk on her behalf during the interview in India. You also stated that the information I relied on from the departmental officers in India is false and misleading.

I do not accept that the departmental officers in India provided false and misleading information about what was said by your family during their interview. Although you have denied the legitimacy of the information obtained during the interview in India, you have not provided any evidence that substantiates your claims. While I note that you provided an affidavit from your father contradicting the statements he made in India, it has not been explained why your family provided information to the department that is allegedly untrue. In addition, I do not accept the claims made by you and your brother about how the interview in India was conducted. Departmental officers confirmed that while they were aware of your mother’s condition, it in no way hindered her ability to communicate with the officers and be interviewed. Departmental officers stated that your mother confirmed during the interview that she understood everything that was being asked. The departmental officers also confirmed that during the interview your mother provided information directly to the officers and at no stage your brother interpreted anything, which contradicts the natural justice response. I therefore do not give any weight to the claims made in your response on 19 December 2014. I consider the
information provided during the interview in India to be reliable and credible.

Summary
The evidence on file demonstrates that your mother was unaware of your marital relationship with your sponsor and that your father, while aware of the marriage, only believed that the relationship


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## nothappy (Mar 22, 2015)

Mish said:


> This looks like a complex case therefore you will need a really good migration agent experienced in these kinds of cases to help.
> 
> My thoughts are that there has to be something in what they lodged with the 801 that made the case officer doubt the relationship. It is very rare for them to interview the parents of the applicant in the applicants home country.
> 
> ...


In the decision record the PIC 4020 and the fraudulent claim is dropped altogether they admitted they got it wrong 
The mother is mute and can't give statements to them


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## nothappy (Mar 22, 2015)

Immigration said the mother had no knowledge of wedding she showed the Immigration officers the wedding photos album and the brothers picked out family members page 5 paragraph 2


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## Canegirl (Oct 7, 2013)

Wow, it certainly is one very complicated application and case. 

One thing that I'm confused about though ... you say that the mother has been mute for 8 years but then I read this:

"Your father stated that your mother has been in touch with your sponsor via telephone. I note that this is inconsistent with your mother’s statement during the interview in India that she had never met and spoken to your sponsor and her family."

How could she the be in touch on the phone with the sponsor if she is mute?


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## nothappy (Mar 22, 2015)

Canegirl said:


> Wow, it certainly is one very complicated application and case.
> 
> One thing that I'm confused about though ... you say that the mother has been mute for 8 years but then I read this:
> 
> ...


The mother has about 30 words she can say that people can understand my daughter's name she can't say so she calls her madam she has to call all females madam another word she says is yes yes and no no a conversation goes like this Did you go shipping to day mother yes yes did you go to fruit shop no no did you go to dress shop no no did you go to butshers shop yes yes did you buy fish no no did you buy lamb yes yes
Whe she leaves the house without a family member she uses cue cards to be under stood

She has only spoken to my daughter a couple of times simply because she gets embarrassed and starts to cry and my daughter really doesn't know what to say


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## Maggie-May24 (Jul 24, 2011)

I still don't see any issue of racism.

If your son-in-law disagrees with the decision taken by DIBP, he should hire a migration agent and file an MRT application.


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## nothappy (Mar 22, 2015)

Canegirl said:


> Wow, it certainly is one very complicated application and case.
> 
> One thing that I'm confused about though ... you say that the mother has been mute for 8 years but then I read this:
> 
> ...


We got birthday cards Christmas card anniversary cards all with my daughters and her husbands name and dresses shoes jewelry hand bags scarves 
Immigration mention the cards page 4 paragraph 2 they don't say who sent the cards but who else would send them but a mother 
Then the say the mother doesn't know sponsor or about marriage

There lies don't match up


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## CollegeGirl (Nov 10, 2012)

If she can speak even two words she is not fully mute and would be capable of answering yes or no questions posed by the case officer. Sorry, but this really doesn't look good. It looks as though your father told the case officers visiting him his actual feelings on the matter, perhaps not realizing you would be told what he said, and then once you found out denied, denied, denied in order to keep his relationship with you intact. Obviously only your father and the CO know the truth, but this is what it is going to look like to most people.


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## aussiesteve (Mar 16, 2012)

Maggie-May24 said:


> I still don't see any issue of racism.
> 
> If your son-in-law disagrees with the decision taken by DIBP, he should hire a migration agent and file an MRT application.


That's right Maggie May , however after reading the report from DIBP, it would seem they had investigated the allegations made by the OP and found they were baseless and that there was insufficient evidence of a relationship to grant a visa.
By all means you can lodge an appeal, but before doing so I suggest that you present all you evidence to a MARA agent and seek an opinion on your chances if a successful appeal.There is no point in spending money on an appeal that has no chance of succeeding.


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## nothappy (Mar 22, 2015)

CollegeGirl said:


> If she can speak even two words she is not fully mute and would be capable of answering yes or no questions posed by the case officer. Sorry, but this really doesn't look good. It looks as though your father told the case officers visiting him his actual feelings on the matter, perhaps not realizing you would be told what he said, and then once you found out denied, denied, denied in order to keep his relationship with you intact. Obviously only your father and the CO know the truth, but this is what it is going to look like to most people.


Didn't happen like that the older brother was there at the time and witness the interview with the mother he had to speak on her behalf 
Directly after the officers left the older brother asked the father what the officers asked him he said how old the applicant is what is his wife's name has he met the wife he answered yes 
He was totally shocked when he saw what immigrating claimed he said.


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## Gothenburg (Mar 6, 2015)

*** The message has been deleted***


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## NiallC33 (Feb 3, 2014)

chicken999 said:


> Indians in Malaysia hate Africans it's a fact. .


deary me !


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## Valentine1981 (Sep 13, 2012)

NiallC33 said:


> deary me !


NiallC33 while it's not a one size fits all statement...In my time here on the forum I have seen a number of couples where 1 partner is African treated absolutely appallingly by case officers that had some personal prejudice...Chicken999 was one of them but also way back there was a couple Mel and Abdul who were denied a visa despite being in a genuine and long term relationship....While very rare it unfortunately does happen!!


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## Maggie-May24 (Jul 24, 2011)

aussiesteve said:


> That's right Maggie May , however after reading the report from DIBP, it would seem they had investigated the allegations made by the OP and found they were baseless and that there was insufficient evidence of a relationship to grant a visa.
> By all means you can lodge an appeal, but before doing so I suggest that you present all you evidence to a MARA agent and seek an opinion on your chances if a successful appeal.There is no point in spending money on an appeal that has no chance of succeeding.


I agree, which is why I don't see any evidence of racism.

I guess my point is that rather than spilling her son-in-law's and daughter's situation over pages of posts (hopefully with their awareness and consent) they'd be better appealing or starting over.


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## NiallC33 (Feb 3, 2014)

Valentine1981 said:


> NiallC33 while it's not a one size fits all statement...In my time here on the forum I have seen a number of couples where 1 partner is African treated absolutely appallingly by case officers that had some personal prejudice...Chicken999 was one of them but also way back there was a couple Mel and Abdul who were denied a visa despite being in a genuine and long term relationship....While very rare it unfortunately does happen!!


so they were rejected solely down to race issues ?
i was rejected last year, should i play the race card or doesnt it apply to me because im white
its so indicative of modern society today that people pull the race card when things dont go their way. its appalling to be frank
dibp officials represent the australian government, do you think the govt want their employees to make factors based on race and stereotypes ? course not. 
i wont disagree that some countries more than others, there is a degree of suspicion when it comes to valid visa applications and thats why there is high risk and low risk, no?
the op sounds very bitter at their refusal and who wouldnt feel the same if refused, i know i did. but instead of cry foul and accuse the powers that be of racism , i just ensured my next application would be watertight, and that involved moving countries twice and a whole lot of expense . but if its worth it you'll get on with it and do, instead of accusing a whole institution of racism
there are so many holes in the op's case, from denying dads to mute moms. i hope they find resolution but see some sense as well. i know i wouldnt want to move to a country that racially abused me like he's claiming. makes you think!


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## wrussell (Dec 31, 2014)

> I have been told by people with some inside knowledge that local staff at certain overseas processing centres can be very spiteful and refuse visas out of jealousy.


For which they face no consequences.


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## NiallC33 (Feb 3, 2014)

we should rename this the hearsay and conjecture thread


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## Gothenburg (Mar 6, 2015)

Everybody knows that there are no different races. . All humans are the same race.
They may look different , still they are the same race.
What am I ? 
A swedish race?
Aboriginal swedes ( Lapplanders ) are they a different race?
A person from Cornwall , are they a different race to swedes , or a person from Athens? Or a person from Tokyo or Brazzaville?
Jews, muslims, christians are they different races?
Atheist... are they a race?
What , if there are races, are they and how many different ones is there?
I was told in school that there are no different races and it is also my personal wiew.


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## Kah86k (Aug 4, 2013)

I agree and that is my personal feeling as well. However, there are many people in the world who do not have the luxury of experiencing race from this viewpoint. I am also Caucasian and while I agree that all people are the same and race SHOULD be a non issue, our feelings would probably be very different if our skin color or ethnic background was different.

I have read this thread and it is very complicated and a touchy issue. Do I see anything racist _from what I've read?_ no, but I also don't know all the facts--it's impossible to. I'm basing my opinion on what I have read. There are 3 sides to every story: your side, my side and the truth. Point being, the truth usually falls somewhere in the middle. I would contact a migration agent to handle this. This board will not resolve it...



Gothenburg said:


> Everybody knows that there are no different races. . All humans are the same race.
> They may look different , still they are the same race.
> What am I ?
> A swedish race?
> ...


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## Gothenburg (Mar 6, 2015)

I guess I , if I was in the throwing Race-card- businesses. . also could claim racism, when after been having a residents visa since before.
(and also have had a 155 visa since before.. )
was told what you have presented as facts for another 155 visa is not enough.
All because of working overseas and that I was not married to my partner. . not even a 157 was issued..
It didn't matter if all others saw us as a long term genuin couple
No, like everybody else that do not tick ALL the boxes, I had to apply for a brand new visa, after starting to collect evidence to back it up.
The relationship is and was as genuine, but the things to show it was not ( documents to show this wasn't saved)
So don't for a minute think that DIBP treats a Caucasian Swede any different than any other person.
Always make sure that there is evidence to back up facts.
If one can't present what they ask for..
Then the verdict will be a No.

To me , to claim racism is not something that should be used left right and centre

Edit:
I had to go thru with being a visitor for more than a year, 
and not being able to work for almost two,
so to please the DIBP and to be able to live up to what they ask for, and
to have a Visa issued can sometimes be both a long and expensive story.


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## Kah86k (Aug 4, 2013)

You're right and really when we first apply for our visas, DIBP doesn't even know our race--it's all on paper and I don't remember a box to tick regarding race. So, although there are individual COs who may in fact be racist, there is a good chance that race was not the initial focal point.



Gothenburg said:


> I guess I , if I was in the throwing Race-card- businesses. . also could claim racism, when after been having a residents visa since before (and also have had a 155 visa since before.. )
> was told what you have presented as facts for another 155 visa is not enough.
> All because of working overseas and that I was not married to my partner. . not even a 157 was issued..
> It didn't matter if all others saw us as a long term genuin couple
> ...


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## CCMS (Oct 10, 2013)

Kah86k said:


> Point being, the truth usually falls somewhere in the middle. I would contact a migration agent to handle this. This board will not resolve it...


Exactly! I can't see the point of playing out such a personal matter on a public forum.The visa has been refused, there are options for appeal, best to concentrate on that.


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## chicken999 (May 2, 2013)

nothappy said:


> 4 You provided two tickets to Hisense Arena. You also provided some photographs taken of you and your sponsor in social settings. As the photographs are not dated and captioned, it is unclear when the social events occurred and therefore whether they are relevant to whether you have continued to be the spouse or de facto partner of your sponsor following the grant of your subclass 820 visa. You also provided some greeting cards either in your name or in joint names with your sponsor. Nature of the Commitment of the Relationship I have considered the nature of you and your sponsor's commitment to each other, including the duration of the relationship, the length of time during which you and your sponsor have lived together, the degree of companionship and emotional support that you and your sponsor draw from each other, and whether you and your sponsor see the relationship as a long-term one. You stated in your statutory declaration that you love your sponsor, that you understand her disability, and that you want to help her in the long-term. Your sponsor also stated that she loves you and that you are her best carer. You had previously provided the department a written statement stating that your father had traveled to Australia in 2011 and met your sponsor and her father, and that your father really liked your sponsor and her father. During the departmental interview in India, your father stated that although he was aware of your marriage, he does not know when you were married or your sponsor's name. Your father also stated that he had never met or been in contact with your sponsor and her family. Your father further stated that your elder brother is currently unmarried and that once a suitable bride had been found for your brother they would get you married, which clearly indicates that your father still considers you unmarried and does not recognise your relationship with your sponsor as genuine. Your father stated that you informed him post-marriage that you got married your sponsor for visa purposes, and that you told him that the easiest and quickest way to obtain Australian permanent residency is by getting married to an Australian citizen. Your father further stated that he is ashamed that his son got married to a girl only for visa and he is unhappy that his son is spoiling someone's daughter's life. Your mother stated that she was aware of your marriage but that she only knows your sponsor's first name and does not know when and where your marriage took place. Your mother stated that she had never met or spoken to your sponsor and her family and does 5 not know your sponsor's parents' names. Your mother also stated that you informed her post-marriage that you had married an Australian citizen. Your brother Vxxx Txxx was also interviewed by departmental officers in India. Your brother stated that he was aware of your marriage as he was a witness at the wedding. Your brother stated that he knew name of your sponsor and a few of her family members. When you were provided an opportunity to comment on the information detailed above, you provided an affidavit from your father dated 12 December 2014 stating that you had married your sponsor, that he had met your sponsor and her father during his trip to Australia in 2011, and that you informed him that you would marry your sponsor in 2012. Your father also stated that he had met your sponsor and her father again in 2013. Your father stated that your mother has been in touch with your sponsor via telephone. I note that this is inconsistent with your mother's statement during the interview in India that she had never met and spoken to your sponsor and her family. In your response provided on 19 December 2014, you submitted photographs of gifts and cards your mother sent to you and your sponsor. You stated that during the interview in India, your father was never asked a question that would require him to make statement about your getting married to an Australian citizen to gain permanent residency. You also stated that your mother has difficulty speaking and that your brother had to talk on her behalf during the interview in India. You also stated that the information I relied on from the departmental officers in India is false and misleading. I do not accept that the departmental officers in India provided false and misleading information about what was said by your family during their interview. Although you have denied the legitimacy of the information obtained during the interview in India, you have not provided any evidence that substantiates your claims. While I note that you provided an affidavit from your father contradicting the statements he made in India, it has not been explained why your family provided information to the department that is allegedly untrue. In addition, I do not accept the claims made by you and your brother about how the interview in India was conducted. Departmental officers confirmed that while they were aware of your mother's condition, it in no way hindered her ability to communicate with the officers and be interviewed. Departmental officers stated that your mother confirmed during the interview that she understood everything that was being asked. The departmental officers also confirmed that during the interview your mother provided information directly to the officers and at no stage your brother interpreted anything, which contradicts the natural justice response. I therefore do not give any weight to the claims made in your response on 19 December 2014. I consider the information provided during the interview in India to be reliable and credible. Summary The evidence on file demonstrates that your mother was unaware of your marital relationship with your sponsor and that your father, while aware of the marriage, only believed that the relationship


Was there more of the refusal letter u were going to post? I found it very interesting reading And having had outright lies told about me and my partner In our descision notice I am very sympathetic to u. And perhaps the only one who knows for a fact it does happen. Why? Maybe they need to justify their refusal of the visa. They can't rely on facts for the refusal so they just make up lies. It does happens. It's why Mrt refunded my entire application fee I believe. Outrageous lies with no basis in fact. My solicitor tore their decision notice to shreds. Do u wNt his details? Expensive but best money I ever spent


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## chicken999 (May 2, 2013)

NiallC33 said:


> deary me !


 have u lived in Malaysia.? I have. We have had Indians spit on us in the street. Abuse and curse words daily. Again u think cause it hasn't happened to u or u haven't seen it, that it doesn't happen. Widen your views . It happens and it's disgusting.


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## NiallC33 (Feb 3, 2014)

chicken999 said:


> have u lived in Malaysia.? I have. We have had Indians spit on us in the street. Abuse and curse words daily. Again u think cause it hasn't happened to u or u haven't seen it, that it doesn't happen. Widen your views . It happens and it's disgusting.


so you've decided to paint an entire nation guilty of racism because of the moronic disgusting actions of a few ?
thats some sound reasoning right there

if the CO spat on you or perhaps he said wouldnt grant your visa because you are malaysian, then that is racism.
just because you get rejected a visa doesnt mean it was down to the part of racism 
there isnt a shread of racism in what you or the op says about your visa refusals.


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## Kaleidoscope (Aug 4, 2014)

chicken999 said:


> have u lived in Malaysia.? I have. We have had Indians spit on us in the street. Abuse and curse words daily. Again u think cause it hasn't happened to u or u haven't seen it, that it doesn't happen. Widen your views . It happens and it's disgusting.


I'm Malaysian and I find this sad. Born and raised in Malaysia and while I admit there are some racial issues going on in this country, I think it is very unfair to say that EVERY Malaysian Indian is racist and hates africans.

There are plenty of Africans in Malaysia and not every single one of them is nice, they cheat and get drunk and scam money off people. Some of them are rude and there had been kidnap and rape cases as well.

Still, I have no right to say all Africans are terrible and is a rapist. There's good people and there's bad people. Not everyone is inhumane/racist.

Sure, stigmas and stereotypes exists. But they do exist because of history. You can't blame a whole entire race for the actions of a few people.


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## Kaleidoscope (Aug 4, 2014)

As to Nothappy, 

You asked the forum if the IMMI being racist, and most of the responders have said no. You are still harping on about race. You are pretty much only seeing what you want to see.

About the mother being a mute and cannot speak, you also said she understands what people are saying and can communicate with others. She may not have spoken with her mouth saying full sentences, but she may have been communicating through simple words or nodding or blinking her eyes even. So your statement of the immi being able to make her speak after 8 years of being a mute, does not apply.

And your son in law and daughter are unable to provide substantial evidence to back the claims you've written previously, which is why it has been denied.

The only option you have here, that has been given to you even by a MARA agent himself, is to appeal. Us on this forum cannot do much for you nor can we change the decision.


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## rose mary (Jan 16, 2014)

I think everything depend on co . If he wants to reject application, he will find way to reject.
I also told my co that I didn't change address the same as my husband because my parents doesn't allow me to stay with the guy b4 marriage due to my culture .i don't have problem that my parents didn't approve my relationship. 
The time I lodge application, I didn't know that my application was de facto so I told immigration that I moved to live with my husband 5months b4 the lodgement. After that I know my application is de factor , I recorect , I told my co that I said that before because I think it is enough for marriage application.
All my forms were wrong, I recorect all. Even myself I didn't think I get a visa. Yes they granted my visa, no interview.


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## rose mary (Jan 16, 2014)

I think in your application has sth wrong which immigrant think ur relationship is not genuine then they try to find ways to refuse . To me what it is wired that they refuse ur relationship depend on what parents said. To read all refusal statement from immigration , I really worry for my application too.anyways best of luck .


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## oetielts (Mar 20, 2015)

Its very racist. I feel so sorry for immigrants having to go though the process.

All the hoops make it so demeaning


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## nothappy (Mar 22, 2015)

chicken999 said:


> Was there more of the refusal letter u were going to post? I found it very interesting reading And having had outright lies told about me and my partner In our descision notice I am very sympathetic to u. And perhaps the only one who knows for a fact it does happen. Why? Maybe they need to justify their refusal of the visa. They can't rely on facts for the refusal so they just make up lies. It does happens. It's why Mrt refunded my entire application fee I believe. Outrageous lies with no basis in fact. My solicitor tore their decision notice to shreds. Do u wNt his details? Expensive but best money I ever spent


When ever Immigration rejects a visa, they know it now costs the applicant thousands of dollars, when they do it because of there lies it makes it that much worse.

The decision record was too big to post all together so I had to post it in two parts both parts are on page 7

We already got legal advice thanks anyway.


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## aussiesteve (Mar 16, 2012)

oetielts said:


> Its very racist. I feel so sorry for immigrants having to go though the process.
> 
> All the hoops make it so demeaning


What is racist about going through the process? It applies to all regardless of race.And what is demeaning about expecting applicants to provide supporting evidence?
If all applicants were honest there would be no need for all this angst, however while cheats and scammers abound genuine applicants are going to be inconvenienced


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## CCMS (Oct 10, 2013)

nothappy said:


> When ever Immigration rejects a visa, they know it now costs the applicant thousands of dollars, when they do it because of there lies it makes it that much worse.
> 
> The decision record was too big to post all together so I had to post it in two parts both parts are on page 7
> 
> We already got legal advice thanks anyway.


I'll be interested to find out how this plays out and if it will be established that the decision was incorrect and was motivated by racism or otherwise. Please keep us updated.


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## Gothenburg (Mar 6, 2015)

CCMS said:


> I'll be interested to find out how this plays out and if it will be established that the decision was incorrect and was motivated by racism or otherwise. Please keep us updated.


Exactly my thoughts..

To me it seems like there is lack of evidence that's the problem..
And contradictory statements.
But I don't have full insight in this, so I can only share my thought.
And personally, I have experienced what happens when not enough evidence is supplied...


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## nothappy (Mar 22, 2015)

Below is a letter I sent to head of Permanent Partner Visa

Dxxx Cxxx. I am writing this letter on behalf of my daughter Lxxx and her husband Sxxx.

File reference 
Request ID 
Client ID

The [PIC] 4020 allegation is that Sxxx produced s false misleading bogus document. In this document Sxxx stated that his father visited Clunes and meet with Lxxx and her father. Lx Dxxx evidence is "Your father stated that he has never met or spoken to your sponsor or her family, and does not know their names"

In the natural justice letter the allegation [PIC] 4020 is mentioned 8 times which would lead anyone to believe this is what Lx Dxx wanted addressed. She accepted photocopies of Sxxx father's passport entry, and photos of Sxxx father and Lxxx together as proof he has been to Australia and met with Lxxx and her father, she subsequently dropped the [PIC] 4020 allegation from the decision record. Team leader Nxxx Lxxx confirmed by email that Sxxx father has been to Australia and met with Lxxx and her father.

Lxxx Dxxx continued to use the same statement from Sxxx father in the decision record letter ["Your father stated that he has never met or spoken to your sponsor or her family, and does not know their names"] even though she admits it's untrue.
In the decision record letter there is no mention of [PIC] 4020 now the concern is, Sxxx is not genuine in his relationship. 801.221 [1] [2] [2A] [3] [4] [5] [6] [8] nowhere in Lx Dxxx evidence does the Father or mother say. Sxxx is not in a genuine or a continuing relationship with Lxxx,

Sxxx mother Vxxx had a stroke in 2005 and was left with dysarthria she has not held a conversation in 8 years; we can supply Neurology and doctors reports on request.
In 2010 Vineeta applied for a visa to travel to Australia, she failed the medical because of her condition dyarthria, she couldn't speak to the doctor.
In a phone conversation with Lxxx father Case officer Lxxx Dxxx was warned the information provides to her is false, she ignored this and continued to use statements attributed to an almost mute person. Sxxx brother was present at the interview and told the departmental officers that his mother could not speak, the Hindi speaking officer accepted this and said to Vxxx, it is all right just say any words you can, Sxxx brother had to answer the questions, Vxxx could only mumble a few words. After 5 questions Vxxx started to cry and the Hindi speaking officer said to the Australian officer she just can't speak, at that, they terminated the interview. Sxxx brother is adamant the mothers statements attributed to her are not what he said on her behalf. 
In the decision record letter Lxxx Dxxx states "the departmental officers also confirmed that during the interview your mother provided information directly to the officers and at no stage your brother interpreted anything" unless you can produce expert witnesses that can say Vxxx can speak as clearly as Lxxx Dxxx suggests, then You have to except the expert evidence that her facial tong and lip muscles are partially paralyzed and she is only able to form the odd simple words. She does not have the capacity to form a sentence as you suggest.

Case officer Lxxx Dxxx relies on a statement supposedly attributed to Sxxx father, that he is a tradition Indian, the elder son marry before younger son or the marriage is not recognized by parents. [Natural justice letter page 1 paragraph 4][Refusal letter page 3 paragraph 10] 
Sxxx was unaware that his family was traditional, until he received the natural justice letter from Lxxx Dxxx.
Sxxx had to Google traditional Indian family to find out what it meant, the older brother is expected to marry before the age of 26, if the older brother is unmarried by 26 the younger brother is entitled to marry, Sxxx brother is 28 and a confirmed bachelor and has no intentions of marring in the near future. 
Sxxx never sends money to his parents in India. He has a tattoo. He does not live in the same house as parents. He lives overseas. He is married to a non Indian. He is not a vegetarian. He does not fast on Fridays. Sxxx family is not traditional.

I had a phone conversation with team leader Nxxx Lxxx. She confirmed that a 45 minute phone conversation between Lxxx Dxxx and disability advocate Kxxx Hxxx was not amongst Lxxx Dxxx reports or paperwork. Disability advocate Kxxx Hxxx will provide a written statement off the content on request.

There was another favorable phone call Lxxx Dxxx made, which confirmed Sxxx and Lxxx are doing family things together.

It appears with the two phone calls, Lxxx Dxxx was fishing for unfavorable information, the information conveyed to her was very favorable, she subsequently dismissed it. In fact she did not even note in her report that favorable phone conversations took place. Neither of the favorable phone conversation appears in the Decision record.

I believe Lxxx Dxxx did not interview Sxxx and Lxxx because; she would have found only favorable information.

Decision Record. Lxxx Dxxx states "your mother was unaware of your marital relationship with
Your sponsor and your father, while aware of your marriage," [Refusal letter page 3 paragraph 10] Lxxx Dxxx is suggesting the father never informed his wife about the marriage. She is also suggesting Sxxx and his brother Vxxx never told there mother about the marriage. The fact is the mother sent birthday Christmas and anniversary cards she also sent dresses shoes hand bags and jewelry. This evidence was presented to Lxxx Dxxx, she chose to ignore this because, it absolutely contradicts the evidence presented by Lxxx Dxxx and the Indian officers.

I believe Lxxx Dxxx and her team would have canceled Sxxx visa application regardless of the evidence presented, simply because Lxxx has an intellectual disability. And in there eyes nobody would marry a person with a disability.

International Convention on Elimination of all forms of Racial discrimination.

Article 5
(iv) The right to marriage and choice of spouse;

Lxxx Dxxx canceled Sxxx application for a PR 801. The reason is, the father is a traditional Indian and the eldest son marries first. Therefore he does not consider his youngest son marriage as genuine. Lxxx Dxxx agrees with the father that this tradition should be upheld. She also does not recognize Sxxx marriage as genuine and canceled his visa application. 
This is a clear breach of Sxxx human rights.

International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights.

Article 23 
1. The family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society and is entitled to protection by society and the State.

The cancellation of Sxxx PR 801 visa application meant he has to return to India. 
Even though Lxxx has an intellectual disability she has the same rights as anyone else in this community and her marriage to Sxxx should be protected by society and the state. 
The most disturbing part of all this is Immigration officers concocted a false bogus interview with Sxxx parents, for the sole purpose of denying Sxxx and Lxxx there marriage and human rights.

Lxxx has an intellectual disability and would find it imposable to defend herself against Lxxx Dxxx and the Immigration machine.
Sxxx is from India and find it difficult understand how things work.
The financial cost of defending these untrue allegations is beyond what Sxxx and Lxxx can afford a quote from an immigration agent was between $7000 and $17000

Sxxx was granted a TR 820 visa in 2013 with this evidence and the evidence supplied after the natural justice letter it overwhelmingly supports Sxxx application for a PR 801 visa.
Lxxx Dxxx evidence is a father has a family tradition, which violates human rights.


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## nothappy (Mar 22, 2015)

rose mary said:


> I think in your application has sth wrong which immigrant think ur relationship is not genuine then they try to find ways to refuse . To me what it is wired that they refuse ur relationship depend on what parents said. To read all refusal statement from immigration , I really worry for my application too.anyways best of luck .


I think Immigration set out on a witch hunt because my daughter has an intellectual disability 
I would like to remind everyone here, people with disabilities are human too, and have feeling just like everyone here.


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## CCMS (Oct 10, 2013)

I strongly advise you to leave this matter with your legal team now and to not publish any further communication from DIBP here. It serves no purpose and I can't see that it will help your case.


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## aussiesteve (Mar 16, 2012)

CCMS said:


> I strongly advise you to leave this matter with your legal team now and to not publish any further communication from DIBP here. It serves no purpose and I can't see that it will help your case.


In light of of this, it may be best that this thread be closed so as not to comprise any legal remedies the OP may be pursuing.


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

aussiesteve said:


> In light of of this, it may be best that this thread be closed so as not to comprise any legal remedies the OP may be pursuing.


Thread is now closed.


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