# Partner (Provisional) visa (subclass 309)



## yasirfarabi (Sep 28, 2012)

I am a permanent resident. I met my wife over internet in April 2012. She visited me in Australia twice, in December 2012 and August 2013 on tourist visa, each time for 2 weeks. We got married in Sydney in August 2013 during her second visit. She has got 2 children from her previous marriage. 

I included her name in my application for permanent residency. However, I had to withdraw her name because of the following viewpoint of my CO:

"I have assessed all the information that you have provided in support of including your spouse and her children in your visa application including a copy of your marriage certificate, declarations from you and your spouse, photographs and declarations from family members about the genuine and ongoing nature of your relationship.

However I note from your travel history that you have not departed Australia since you have met your spouse. I note also that your spouse has travelled to Australia on two separate occasions. From the travel history of your spouse she entered the country on the 10 December 2012 and departed on the 23 December 2012. Your spouse then returned to Australia on the 5 August 2013 and departed Australia on the 19 August 2013.You entered into civil marriage in Australia on 10 August 2013 and have spent a total of 9 days together as a married couple, and only 27 days together in total.

I also note that your partners children have never travelled to Australia.
Your visa history indicates that you lodged a 485 applicaiton on the 22 July 2012 and were granted this application on the 31 January 2013. During the processing of this applicaiotn you did not declare that you had entered a spousal relationship.

Given your visa records and travel history I am not satisfied to date that your spouse meets the criteria of 5F (d) (ii) and more specifically that you do not live separately and apart on a permanent basis."

Now I would like to apply for Partner (Provisional) visa (subclass 309). My question is: will the immigration office again raise the same question?

What I have heard that since it is kind of a temporary visa for 2 years and if the relationship would not work out she can be denied permanent residency, immigration office is not too much strict about the living together requirement. is it true?


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## CollegeGirl (Nov 10, 2012)

Yasir, I've moved your post to its own thread because it didn't belong in the thread you'd posted it in. 

Getting a spouse added to your 485 requires much LESS evidence and is much LESS difficult than a partner visa. If you were denied for the 485, unless you have been living together substantially since then, sharing expenses, etc. you're going to have an even harder time getting approved for a partner visa. They'll also see you have a history of this exact same relationship being denied as legitimate which is going to work against you as well. It's expected that if you're married to someone you're going to be living with them... if you aren't living with your spouse (and have evidence to prove it), you won't be approved.


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## yasirfarabi (Sep 28, 2012)

CollegeGirl said:


> Yasir, I've moved your post to its own thread because it didn't belong in the thread you'd posted it in.
> 
> Getting a spouse added to your 485 requires much LESS evidence and is much LESS difficult than a partner visa. If you were denied for the 485, unless you have been living together substantially since then, sharing expenses, etc. you're going to have an even harder time getting approved for a partner visa. They'll also see you have a history of this exact same relationship being denied as legitimate which is going to work against you as well. It's expected that if you're married to someone you're going to be living with them... if you aren't living with your spouse (and have evidence to prove it), you won't be approved.


The fact is when I applied for 485 in December 2012, we were not married at that time, she was only my girlfriend. Therefore, I did not necessarily have to live with her. We got married in August 2013. I did not agree with the CO's point and I mentioned it to my CO, but it did not help. So in my understanding, since I only started my married life in August 2013, I am supposed to live with her since August 2013.

And her visa was not denied. When I understood CO's point of view, I withdrew her name from PR application.


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## CCMS (Oct 10, 2013)

yasirfarabi said:


> Now I would like to apply for Partner (Provisional) visa (subclass 309). My question is: will the immigration office again raise the same question?
> 
> What I have heard that since it is kind of a temporary visa for 2 years and if the relationship would not work out she can be denied permanent residency, immigration office is not too much strict about the living together requirement. is it true?


Where did you hear this ?


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## CollegeGirl (Nov 10, 2012)

Have you lived together since August 2013?


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## yasirfarabi (Sep 28, 2012)

CCMS said:


> Where did you hear this ?


I was discussing with an agent about my case. The agent told me, as a permanent resident I have the right to live with my spouse. Since we are only married for 5 months, the only option is to apply for Partner (Provisional) visa offshore. Since it is applied offshore, and we are newly married, it is expected that we cannot prove that we have lived together.


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## yasirfarabi (Sep 28, 2012)

CollegeGirl said:


> Have you lived together since August 2013?


My wife was on tourist visa when we got married. We stayed together for 9 days after our marriage. After that she went back to her country.


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

yasirfarabi said:


> My wife was on tourist visa when we got married. We stayed together for 9 days after our marriage. After that she went back to her country.


I'm sorry but that doesn't seem long enough to me. I have lived with my fiance longer than that and we live in separate countries!

The PMV is designed for people who can't live together after marriage because they live in different countries.


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## CollegeGirl (Nov 10, 2012)

Let me reiterate once again: The requirements for the partner visa are MORE difficult to meet than the visa you've already applied for. In my opinion, you are highly unlikely to get a different result until you and your wife have lived together, shared expenses, etc.


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## GBP (Jun 1, 2013)

Mish said:


> I'm sorry but that doesn't seem long enough to me. I have lived with my fiance longer than that and we live in separate countries!
> 
> The PMV is designed for people who can't live together after marriage because they live in different countries.


If you are married then you cannot apply for PMV anymore.

I think OP need to find a way to gather some more convincing evidences for 309.


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

GBP said:


> If you are married then you cannot apply for PMV anymore.
> 
> I think OP need to find a way to gather some more convincing evidences for 309.


What I meant was he should not have gotten married! He should have waited and applied for a pmv.

Nothing he can do now.


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## yasirfarabi (Sep 28, 2012)

So does it mean that even if I am married, i cannot bring my wife in any visa other than family visitor visa, unless I have lived with her long enough?


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

Depends on the embassy but alot of high risk embassy's will reject you if you do not have a life like husband and wife. They may find it strange that you have not gone to visit her.

Being married does not give the person the right to be able to bring their spouse to Australia to live permanently. They firstly need to show DIBP that the relationship is genuine and ongoing.


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## GBP (Jun 1, 2013)

yasirfarabi said:


> So does it mean that even if I am married, i cannot bring my wife in any visa other than family visitor visa, unless I have lived with her long enough?


As Mish have said, you need to satisfied the requirements set by DIBP in order to be granted a partner visa.

I actually think that DIBP should make it easier for couple in this kind of situation. Not everyone have the full knowledge of how PMV and the partner visa work. Often it is too late to go for PMV when they realize they are unable to fulfill the requirements of a partner visa.


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## CollegeGirl (Nov 10, 2012)

I don't think it should necessarily be easier for couples who have only spent a total of 27 days with each other EVER and have no stated plans to live together or insurmountable reasons for being apart to get a visa that leads to permanent residency... I mean, c'mon.


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## GBP (Jun 1, 2013)

CollegeGirl said:


> I don't think it should necessarily be easier for couples who have only spent a total of 27 days with each other EVER and have no stated plans to live together or insurmountable reasons for being apart to get a visa that leads to permanent residency... I mean, c'mon.


I'm not trying to say the requirements should be lower for those in this situation. But maybe if you only just get married, let say less than 6 months, you still be able to apply for a PMV. By no means, the requirements should be lower for a partner visa.


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## tulauras (Sep 1, 2013)

Also, the way a 309 works is not 'you get two years to see if it works out'. You get this visa because you are committed to each other, and not just in the sense that you have a marriage certificate. 

If you can, bring her back on a tourist visa and try to gather more evidence. Keep up contact while you are apart, and find evidence of you planning a life together. Open bank accounts, introduce her to your friends, name her in your will. If you work towards having a married life together you will find enough evidence.


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## tara.jatt (May 15, 2012)

As your CO raised the point that you haven't traveled outside Australia and you guys never lived together for long, I suggest you to try to go to your partner's place , stay there, try to build the evidences which suggests you guys are sincere toward your relation and its genuine and continuing.


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