# Partnership visa refused and ordered to leave Australia



## Trapper (Apr 18, 2012)

Partner (Residence) (class BS) Partner (subclass 801) visa

My wife and I were married in Australia just over 3 years ago and have lived together for 3 years 7 months and in the final stages of said visa.

I received a letter from Medicare alerting me that DIBP had informed them that my visa status had changed and that I was no longer eligible for Medicare. Upon telephoning immigration I was informed that decision had been made and I should report to the compliance office in Brisbane and see the compliance office. 

After getting married and sending in our marriage certificate we then waited the 2 years before the second stage of the partnership visa could be commenced. Due to a misunderstanding I thought this was automatic and phoned DIBP on 7th July 2015 and asked what was happening with my application and they replied they had sent me instructions via email to open an IMMI account. I did not receive this communication email and the person I spoke to sent the required information and I finally opened an IMMI account. I have no doubt that this counted as a black mark towards me as immigration queried why I had taken so long to open the IMMI acount. They then said they sent another email in October asking for further information. They insist it was sent and because I nominated to receive email communication they are not obliged to contact me any other way and it is my responsibility to ensure email filters are set correctly.I maintain that I did not receive it or it somehow ended up in junk mail and and was inadvertently deleted. I find this attitude ridiculous to say the least. 

Because of missing this email a decision was made 7th December 2016 notifying me of refusal of our partnership visa and that I had 21 days to apply to the Administrative Appeals Tribunal (AAT) for a merits review. This date has long gone, this email did not arrive too and it was only the Medicare letter that indicated that there was problem.

Upon attending the compliance office in Brisbane I was informed that my visa had been refused with no right of appeal and given until 3rd April 2016 to present a departure ticket and exit Australia by 10th April 2016.
This couldn't have happened at a worse time, Easter week-end and my wife and I have spent a miserable and frustrating week-end. We have filed a written complaint with immigration and contacted the Commonwealth Ombudsman, of course nothing can be done until after the long week-end.
My wife also contacted her Federal MP and was informed that he could not intervene in this matter.

We need to take legal advice on this first thing Tuesday and would welcome a recommendation for an expert immigration lawyer in Brisbane. Also any advice would be greatly appreciated.


Forgot to mention, Immigration have said that my only option now is to leave the country and reapply for offshore Partner 309 Temp 100 Permanent, which will cost a fortune with all these price increases. My wife asked them if this first refusal would be counted against me and they were very non committal.


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

Chicken999 knows a good migration lawyer in Brisbane, send her a message. 

The issue you will face will be if DIBP has proof that the email was sent in October and to the email address that you provided. If they have proof then unfortunately you may not be able to do anything but a migration lawyer can advise on that.


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## Trapper (Apr 18, 2012)

They have told me they can prove they sent it, whether they can prove that you actually received it, or opened or did whatever is debatable. We need an email geek to answer this. Must see a lawyer though. Thanks for Chicken999 tip.


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## Aussie83 (Oct 15, 2015)

best of luck to you but they are right it is not their responsibility for you to apply for the second stage. and they would of sent the emails, as you say possibly went to your junk and was deleted.


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

Unfortunately with government agencies if they have sent it and it is to the correct email address then it is deemed to have been received. They cannot be held responsible if it goes to junk email and qe don't see it. It is our responsibility to make sure we check our junk email.

Please keep us updated on how you go.


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## chicken999 (May 2, 2013)

Mish said:


> Chicken999 knows a good migration lawyer in Brisbane, send her a message. The issue you will face will be if DIBP has proof that the email was sent in October and to the email address that you provided. If they have proof then unfortunately you may not be able to do anything but a migration lawyer can advise on that.


I've sent him details

Sent from my iPad using Australia


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## CCMS (Oct 10, 2013)

Ministerial Intervention may be your only option, other than going offshore and re-applying.

When you lodge an application,you are given various options on how you want to be contacted. If you select the email option then you have to make sure you can receive email properly and to check your email regularly. Sometimes being notified by post is a safer option.

Your original visa grant letter also explains when you will be eligible for stage 2.If you have access to webmail you might still be able to retrieve the emails they sent you, just for the record.

www.ausvisa.net.au


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## wrussell (Dec 31, 2014)

It is unlikely that a refusal was issued on 7th December 2016.

The applicant would not be eligible for ministerial review unless refused at review.

It looks as if the options are an offshore 309, or a 600 possibly followed by an 820, or a PV followed by AAT and ministerial.


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## wrussell (Dec 31, 2014)

> If you have access to webmail you might still be able to retrieve the emails they sent you, just for the record.


This is worth noting. I recently had an issue with my hosted email bouncing due to the ISP being blacklisted, so I changed outgoing servers.

I then had an issue with emails not sending, so I deleted the account and reset it, which resulted in a few thousand emails being downloaded from the server.

The point being that they were all on the server. If web mail is available, it pays to check it now and then.


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## Trapper (Apr 18, 2012)

CCMS said:


> Ministerial Intervention may be your only option, other than going offshore and re-applying.
> 
> When you lodge an application,you are given various options on how you want to be contacted. If you select the email option then you have to make sure you can receive email properly and to check your email regularly. Sometimes being notified by post is a safer option.
> 
> ...


Hindsight's a wonderful thing, I wouldn't advise anyone to use email after this, telephone, you can't beat human contact, or just normal mail.
I have tried recovering emails, but can only go back as far as Christmas day.
For anyone in this process DIBP have further tightened up and I believe are under orders to reject as many applications as is possible for whatever reasons they can find and if you aid them via your own carelessness so be it.


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

Out of curiosity what email domain do you use? We use gmail and it has always gone into the inbox from DIBP.


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## Trapper (Apr 18, 2012)

That would be hotmail.com, not hotmail.com.au

I have no idea how these emails have been missed and on one occasion when I rang them after opening an IMMI account to enquire what was going on, the only response I could get out of them was, it takes up to a year now to process the second stage.


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## CCMS (Oct 10, 2013)

Trapper said:


> Hindsight's a wonderful thing, I wouldn't advise anyone to use email after this, telephone, you can't beat human contact, or just normal mail. I have tried recovering emails, but can only go back as far as Christmas day. For anyone in this process DIBP have further tightened up and I believe are under orders to reject as many applications as is possible for whatever reasons they can find and if you aid them via your own carelessness so be it.


On the few occasions where emails were not responded to for whatever reason, I have always been contacted by phone by the case officer. It is unfortunate that email is never 100 % fail proof, so it is important to keep an eye on important dates, like the stage 2 eligibility and to follow up if you don't hear from them.

There are plenty of horror stories about mail going missing or being sent to the wrong address as well. Despite clearly indicating my postal address, the parent visa processing centre once sent an important letter to my street address by ordinary mail. The postie helpfully left the large envelope on my doorstep in the rain! I was lucky I found it !

The problem is that if DIBP has evidence that they sent you a notification by whatever means, they don't really care if you received it or not.It would be up to you to prove that the email was not sent to you, which is nearly impossible. Against a government department, the individual is fairly powerless.

www.ausvisa.net.au


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## Trapper (Apr 18, 2012)

At one point when talking with immigration, I asked them if they had wrote to me and it had gone missing what would have happened? their response was it's not our fault if stuff goes missing in the post.
I can tell you now that I don't know how I got out of that office without completely losing my head, they held on to my passport until the end of the interview in a very intimidating manner and I am quite sure that if I had lost it, that I would've been arrested and placed in detention. They are horrible people to deal with.


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

Trapper said:


> That would be hotmail.com, not hotmail.com.au


I had a hunch it was hotmail. I use to have hotmail many moons ago and remember the junk being automatically deleted after awhile (gmail does not do that from what I have seen). I think hotmail must have their filters higher.

You should be able to get the decision notice and request for additional evidence from your immi account.


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## Aussieboy07 (Jan 4, 2013)

This is the Minister to write to (Peter Dutton)
Ministerial (Immigration and Border Protection) issues contact Peter at:

Parliament House Ministerial Office:
Minister for Immigration and Border Protection
Suite MG-46 
Ministerial Wing, Ground Floor, 
Parliament House Canberra ACT 2600

Phone Number: (02) 6277 7860

Email: correspondence: [email protected]

If you decide to send a letter be smart and send it registered mail


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## TimmyIRL (Feb 21, 2016)

Aussieboy07 said:


> This is the Minister to write to (Peter Dutton)
> Ministerial (Immigration and Border Protection) issues contact Peter at:
> 
> Parliament House Ministerial Office:
> ...


Please don't waste your time and money doing this. Please.


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## EDT (Aug 22, 2014)

Trapper said:


> Partner (Residence) (class BS) Partner (subclass 801) visa
> 
> My wife and I were married in Australia just over 3 years ago and have lived together for 3 years 7 months and in the final stages of said visa.
> 
> ...


Your story is very touching and got me thinking to carefully follow up on the second stage email. We've been told a month before the eligibility date. I know of a couple who never received the email around the due date , waited for 4 months and later decided to chase the immigration . They were told that the email had been sent but never received it as well.


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## Trapper (Apr 18, 2012)

TimmyIRL said:


> Please don't waste your time and money doing this. Please.


It's not really for you to tell me not to waste my time. I'm desperate here so just do one will you.

I have replied via email and then we'll see if it was a waste of time.

Thank you Aussieboy07 for the advice.


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## TimmyIRL (Feb 21, 2016)

Trapper said:


> It's not really for you to tell me not to waste my time. I'm desperate here so just do one will you.
> 
> I have replied via email and then we'll see if it was a waste of time.
> 
> Thank you Aussieboy07 for the advice.


Email is fine just don't pay to send a letter. Hope it works out for you partner migration is a shitty thing to have to deal with.


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## CCMS (Oct 10, 2013)

It is unlikely that the Minister will intervene or even respond, unless you follow proper procedure. Try to get hold of a senior migration lawyer in Brisbane as soon as you can. This really is a very unfortunate situation. Best of luck! www.ausvisa.net.au


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

Since you are located in Brisbane have you thought to go to Peter Dutton's office? I know they may not be able to help, but what happens if on the off chance they can?

They are located at Strathpine not far from Westfield Strathpine.


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## Trapper (Apr 18, 2012)

Got some news off my cousin in Sydney who has been helping me and he knows a Immigration lawyer solicitor and have been discussing my case.




"This is not a legal advice. This is only some comments as a friend to you.

Unfortunately ***** has done too many mistakes along the way for his visa situation to be rescued.

He may have to leave Australia and apply from overseas which may take several months.


Spouse visa application has many legal requirements and if you done supply them it will be refused which happened in this case.

He must check his email regularly because once he is notified of a negative decision time runs out after 28 days so the Tribunal has no power after that.

He never checked with the department earlier.

You can go to court but the chances are very small or near zero and very costly."


Looking very much like my goose is cooked. It's unbelievable how pear shaped this thing has gone. Just stunned.


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

Just a thought. Since you are from a low risk country why not go offshore and apply for a ETA/Evisitor and then come back and apply for a 820/801. The ETA may not be approved because of the length of time in Australia and recent rejection but it is worth a try. Otherwise offshore you are looking at 9 to 12 months waiting time.

A piece of advice - change your email domain from hotmail to another one or fix your filters.


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## Trapper (Apr 18, 2012)

Mish said:


> Just a thought. Since you are from a low risk country why not go offshore and apply for a ETA/Evisitor and then come back and apply for a 820/801. The ETA may not be approved because of the length of time in Australia and recent rejection but it is worth a try. Otherwise offshore you are looking at 9 to 12 months waiting time.
> 
> A piece of advice - change your email domain from hotmail to another one or fix your filters.


Immigration have already told me that my only option is offshore with a Family Fortune price of just under $7000. It's just an industry and money making scam under the guise of making Australia a safer place.

Would get a new email domain.


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## dejainc (Jun 23, 2013)

LOL its funny how everything is described as a scam if things don't go to plan.


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## JandE (Jul 17, 2015)

dejainc said:


> LOL its funny how everything is described as a scam if things don't go to plan.


When this one is just Government regulations being followed to the letter, a common issue all over the world.

However, in this case, the poster is annoyed in a major way, understandably, and needs to vent, again understandably.

It's a small mistake, but ending up *very *costly and *very* inconvenient.


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## CCMS (Oct 10, 2013)

Trapper said:


> Immigration have already told me that my only option is offshore with a Family Fortune price of just under $7000. It's just an industry and money making scam under the guise of making Australia a safer place. Would get a new email domain.


I don't believe the intention is to make any money out of you. There are strict procedures in place and there is simply very little flexibility in the system. It is very unfortunate and I sympathise with your predicament, but in the end this situation was entirely avoidable. The 2 year qualifying period is clearly explained in the visa grant letter and as long as DIBP had actually sent the required notifications it is your responsibility that you can receive them and to contact DIBP if you don't.

I think the DIBP could do a better job explaining the 2 stage process and explaining the consequences of missing deadlines. Maybe they should also highlight potential email issues, so people are more aware of it.

www.ausvisa.net.au


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

Trapper said:


> Immigration have already told me that my only option is offshore with a Family Fortune price of just under $7000. It's just an industry and money making scam under the guise of making Australia a safer place.
> 
> Would get a new email domain.


It is not like the will tell you to apply for a tourist visa and come back that way. That is not something they recommend.

It is not a scam. It comes down to the fact that you did not read the 820 grant correctly and keep an eye out for the email (including checking junk) and contact them if it is not received.

My husband is eligible soon and around the 2 months prior I checked his junk mail regularly to make sure we didn't miss anything. We did get the eligibility email and it came into the primary email box.


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## Trapper (Apr 18, 2012)

dejainc said:


> LOL its funny how everything is described as a scam if things don't go to plan.


I don't know what you're laughing for. 
My bribe to the government to get into the country has been rejected, now I must re-bribe them if I want to come back. That's how the world works.


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## dejainc (Jun 23, 2013)

Trapper said:


> I don't know what you're laughing for.
> My bribe to the government to get into the country has been rejected, now I must re-bribe them if I want to come back. That's how the world works.


Why bother, go the other way? move your partner to the UK?


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## JandE (Jul 17, 2015)

Trapper said:


> My bribe to the government to get into the country has been rejected, now I must re-bribe them if I want to come back. That's how the world works.


The fees are not Bribes.

They are fees calculated to cover Immigration Costs and to help to trim down the increasing numbers that choose to migrate to Australia.

Immigration do their job, and we do our part by ensuring we follow up correctly and apply for each visa as needed.

We get told when we need to enter, for the first time, by. _(we need to remember that date, they do not remind us)_
When to leave before... _(we need to remember that date, they do not remind us)_
and when to apply for another visa. _(we should remember that date too, they may not be under any obligation to remind us)_

If we don't follow the rules, we have problems


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## Trapper (Apr 18, 2012)

JandE said:


> The fees are not Bribes.
> 
> They are fees calculated to cover Immigration Costs and to help to trim down the increasing numbers that choose to migrate to Australia.
> 
> ...


I certainly don't need a lecture off you.


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## dejainc (Jun 23, 2013)

Trapper said:


> I certainly don't need a lecture off you.


That will be $7000, or $3000 cash under the table (wink wink), weekly class on Sunday 6am to 7am.

Time to close this thread, the attitude from the OP sucks.


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## YYC2BNE (Oct 23, 2015)

Trapper said:


> I don't know what you're laughing for.
> My bribe to the government to get into the country has been rejected, now I must re-bribe them if I want to come back. That's how the world works.


Actually your "bribe" got you into the country, your own lack of attention it seems is where it all went wrong.

You could always look at it like you're doing many people on this forum a favour by explaining your story.


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## ausharrold (Oct 28, 2015)

I think Trapper has a point. He complied with everything that was required of him and with circumstances outside of his control he did not have the opportunity to read the 801 letter. My partner was also in a situation where a grant notice was sent to an email address that was hacked. Life goes on, we live our lives and sometimes, when we have to wait a long time checking our emails we could just forget. Remember folks, we only have 28 days to look at our email find it amongst all the spam and then act upon it. One pays nearly $7000 for a visa and which takes 2 years to wait for. He has fulfilled the requirement for the 820, why should he have to apply again when he fulfilled the requirements needed for the 820 visa.

Everyone should take a deep breath and put yourself in his shoes, what would you say then. When he complains about the government talking about bribes, it is all tongue in cheek I would suggest. 

I have noticed that on this forum there are many that say bad luck, because they themselves have had to wait a long time to come to Australia themselves, what about give the poor bloke a break and offer suggestions. I have also noticed that everything comes back to, Oh you will need a Migration Agent to do that. 

He has complied with his 820, why is he then made to go back overseas and apply again, he should only have to apply for 801, I know you are all saying that they are the rules, why should that be the case. Have a look on Austlii.edu.au and read some of the cases that have gone to MRT and AAT and see how people manage to stay in Australia even though they have been illegal for years.

The main thing is that Trapper has complied with his 820, why should he not get the chance to stay here.

Cheers

Harry


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## notsure (Nov 6, 2013)

The best thing Trapper could do at this point is speak to either a Migration Agent or a Migration lawyer, very few of us here are qualified to give him the right advice in this situation.

While yes the onus was on him to complete the application in the required time, we should all be able to feel for him under the circumstances, I know I certainly do.

For someone who has been in Australia legally for 3 1/2 years, to have to uproot their lives and go overseas to start the whole process again is a big undertaking - even without the financial costs of travel and visa application, there is also the emotional toll of being separated from his wife/family. If he is working, then that will be his job gone (what employer would hold a job for an indefinite amount of time waiting for a visa to be processed), all in all this mistake will have major consequences.

While immigration have informed Trapper that his only option is to leave and apply for an offshore partner visa, I would again stress that he should be seeking advice from someone qualified, it may be that if he is forced to leave, then he may be able to re-enter on a tourist visa (or eVisitor visa if the refusal doesn't affect his eligibility for such), and then reapply for the 820/801 onshore but again he should seek advice about this.

All I can say is good luck, and hopefully it won't come to that.


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## Trapper (Apr 18, 2012)

At least there's some common sense coming through with the last two posters, thank you for caring.


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## JandE (Jul 17, 2015)

Trapper said:


> At least there's some common sense coming through with the last two posters, thank you for caring.


Most of the original comments were also sympathetic to you, including me, but attitudes changed after you accused our government of scamming you.


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## Trapper (Apr 18, 2012)

JandE said:


> Most of the original comments were also sympathetic to you, including me, but attitudes changed after you accused our government of scamming you.


I haven't got the time or energy to debate with the apologists of a deeply flawed system. I'm done here.


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## CCMS (Oct 10, 2013)

Trapper, I am certainly sympathetic to your plight. The 2 stage process is there because too many people were scamming the system and many still are. Recently DIBP has become a lot tougher on the permanent part of the process.

As a registered migration agent I don't see my role as either defending or condemning the system. Others can do that. My role is to work within the existing rules and try and achieve the best possible outcome for my clients.

The bureaucratic system is impersonal and unfeeling and has little concern for the individual. It is designed that way. You unfortunately got caught up in this. Immigration is not the only institution which can be ruthless and inflexible when you don't play by their rules. The tax office can be just as merciless.

My advise would be to get another professional opinion from someone fairly senior before doing anything else. Happy to email you some contacts in Brisbane if you wish.

www.ausvisa.net.au


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## syd (May 13, 2014)

Trapper, I can only imagine how angry and helpless you feel right now! The visa process is quite a maze to navigate. The only positive in your situation is that you are from a low risk country so you might have some options to re-enter and apply for visa onshore. 

I really don't know what I would do if I were in your shoes! I understand your scam reference as I sometimes feel like the immigration system is just a money-making machine and they really don't care how their decisions affect our lives.

All the best!


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## CCMS (Oct 10, 2013)

Trapper said:


> You should be on the stage Sweeping it


At least you haven't lost your sense of humour. Good on you.

www.ausvisa.net.au


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## Yerevanits (Jun 30, 2015)

I understand the need for a person to take keep in contact with the department etc and it is their responsibility etc etc. But the punishment really doesn't fit the crime. 

The government obviously know's where he lives as medicare got in touch with him. And as has been mentioned elsewhere, the government readily shares information between agencies (otherwise medicare wouldn't have known that he'd become unlawful). But it seems that they only do this when it suits themselves, not the clients. 

I understand all the comments relating to the fact that system is inflexible etc and you just have to live with it, but immigration took absolutely zero effort to get in contact with the client. Sure they ticked a box on their previous application that said they could communicate electronically, but again, does the punishment fit the crime?

The two stage system is there for a reason, this person hasn't entered into a fraudulent relationship, or gone on the run after coming here, they made a mistake and now they will pay for it dearly.


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## CollegeGirl (Nov 10, 2012)

I have to admit, I have a hard time seeing how anyone could forget. (Bear with me for a sec, Trapper.) We're all adults, we have deadlines all the time and it's our responsibility to keep track of them. Deadlines for job applications, work, school, etc. You put them on your calendar or do whatever it takes to not forget them. When I got my spouse visa granted, my eligibility date for PR was so far off that I wrote it on the month of December 2014 so I'd transfer it to the 2015 calendar (December) and then to the appropriate month of 2016. I wanted to already have my evidence ready to go by my eligibility date to avoid delays. I'd advise anyone wanting to avoid this potential situation to do this as well - write it on your calendar or add it to your Outlook calendar or whatever - give yourself some reminder (even multiple reminders) to check with Immi around two years from your spouse visa grant. And you don't have to wait for Immi to contact you - if it's a couple of months before your eligibility date, get online and start putting your application together. No need to wait for a letter. 

That said - if Immi had a current phone number for you, for example, I think if they're not getting any response, period, to one contact method, they should have to try another. I do think it was your responsibility to keep track of this date and stay on top of it, Trapper - but that said, I've missed or forgotten a deadline or two in my life as well. I'm sure we all have. None with stakes this high, personally (luckily) but still. Given what's at stake with people's lives, like I said - I wish Immi had to use more than one contact method (preferably all they have!) before completely rejecting someone outright for not responding. It doesn't seem right that they don't. 

Trapper, I really hope you find a great immigration lawyer and things work out for you. I agree with the poster above who asked if the punishment fits the crime. While I do think we have to take personal responsibility for certain things, I don't think the price of missing an email and neglecting to write down a date should have to be moving away from the country you live in.


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## Eizzi (Feb 25, 2013)

A cautionary tale for sure, though my understanding is that he simply didn't realise he had to do anything more to get 801. It wasn't that he forgot the date or deadline. Either the grant info wasn't read properly or not at all, so he believed the second stage was automatic.


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## Cyllan (Mar 24, 2016)

Eizzi said:


> A cautionary tale for sure, though my understanding is that he simply didn't realise he had to do anything more to get 801. It wasn't that he forgot the date or deadline. Either the grant info wasn't read properly or not at all, so he believed the second stage was automatic.


It isn't just in the grant info thugh, its made clear when you apply as well as when its granted. If you read the info all the way through it emphasises the two stage process.
And surely he realised he was only on a temporary visa and at some point would have to sort out the permanent one?

We had a count down in weeks on our calendars, heading for our eligibility date.(Seems pointless now as the timelines get longer and we could be pushing up the daisies before PR comes through, but still.)

It does seem a harsh reaction by DIBP and I'm not unsympathetic, as I am no fan of DIBP these days, but your visa is your responsibility, whether its renewing a 457, meeting the requirements for a regional visa, or going from temp to PR as a Spouse.


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## Depressedfish (Sep 27, 2013)

Did they grant you bridging visa E when you visit the compliance office? It might incur a 3 year ban on most temporary visa application, so it might be impossible to get back into Australia to reapply 801/820 onshore.

Really feel for you, it is a very unfortunate situation to be in.


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## wrussell (Dec 31, 2014)

If it is not a scam, it will do until we find one.


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## Eizzi (Feb 25, 2013)

Cyllan said:


> It isn't just in the grant info thugh, its made clear when you apply as well as when its granted. If you read the info all the way through it emphasises the two stage process.
> And surely he realised he was only on a temporary visa and at some point would have to sort out the permanent one?
> 
> We had a count down in weeks on our calendars, heading for our eligibility date.(Seems pointless now as the timelines get longer and we could be pushing up the daisies before PR comes through, but still.)
> ...


I agree, I was only pointing out that it wasn't that he forgot the date. The partner visa was one of the most important things I've ever done in my life, with a lot resting on it, so I cannot imagine not taking care to understand everything written both in the application process and on the grant. Unfortunately, that mistake appears to be costing him dearly now.


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## Maggie-May24 (Jul 24, 2011)

Eizzi said:


> I agree, I was only pointing out that it wasn't that he forgot the date. The partner visa was one of the most important things I've ever done in my life, with a lot resting on it, so I cannot imagine not taking care to understand everything written both in the application process and on the grant. Unfortunately, that mistake appears to be costing him dearly now.


I've long ago lost count of the number of posts where people have applied for partner visas or skilled visas, etc. and then asked relatively simple questions about what they were now entitled to. I can't imagine spending $5K - $8K on anything and not knowing exactly what I was buying. But the OP is certainly not the first visa holder to not realise exactly what was involved.


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## J&F (Nov 5, 2015)

I am quite sympathetic to the OP, they've made a totally dumb mistake and are getting a good kicking up the bum for the oversight. Years ago I reported my net wages to Centrelink instead of the gross amount and copped quite a hefty amount to pay back and I am one of the world's most honest people! Dumb mistake. I paid for it even though Centrelink realised that I had been reporting my wages.

Good luck Trapper keep us informed of how you're going.

By the way, I understand that you're totally peed off at the moment, but the people on here will help in any way possible.


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## Becky26 (Jun 18, 2013)

My sincere apologises about such a stressful situation and I can related to you not in same sense but I do understand how annoying this must be for you and your partner. 
DIBP has made many lives difficult including mine when we applied for our first partner visa onshore. Ended up with a rejection that was a difficult time for both my and myself and our families. 

There was no point fighting back because they checked the boxes on their end and if you messed up, it would result in a rejection or worse having to leave your partner and start all over again with the whole process which has a hefty prize tag on it.
Only if they had better process in place, situations like this won't happen often. 

Having said that with utmost sympathy about your ordeal, we did have reminders on both of our phones going off every week reminding us that we had the date approaching and the stickies on our calendars telling us it was time to get our paperwork together. I guess considering how important and expensive this process is, DIBP does seem to take that everyone is on top of the dates of their application. 

Hope things get better for you and wish you the best.

Kind Regards,
Becky


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## JandE (Jul 17, 2015)

Becky26 said:


> we did have reminders on both of our phones going off every week reminding us that we had the date approaching and the stickies on our calendars telling us it was time to get our paperwork together


That's a good idea, I will guess that a few others will be updating their phone alarms now..


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## Hassali.abdi (Jul 28, 2014)

JandE said:


> That's a good idea, I will guess that a few others will be updating their phone alarms now..


Seein this unfortunate happened to Trapper, I have to be alert about emails and postal address. I used Hotmail.com domain in my previous 309 application. It is freeking to hear that hotmail is not reliable. My eligibility date 16 July 16. Expecting to hear from dip about a month and a half at their descration if I am lucky enough.

Wish you a good luck in deeling with dip Tapper. I hope they reconsider their promt decision of punishing an innocent for only missing an emailed letter.

Hassan


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## Becky26 (Jun 18, 2013)

Hassali.abdi said:


> Seein this unfortunate happened to Trapper, I have to be alert about emails and postal address. I used Hotmail.com domain in my previous 309 application. It is freeking to hear that hotmail is not reliable. My eligibility date 16 July 16. Expecting to hear from dip about a month and a half at their descration if I am lucky enough.
> 
> Wish you a good luck in deeling with dip Tapper. I hope they reconsider their promt decision of punishing an innocent for only missing an emailed letter.
> 
> Hassan


Hey Hassan,

Even if DIBP doesn't notify you via email or letter, you need to still apply and provide additional documents supporting your subclass 100. Thats the thing, some how many are under the impression or are waiting to get notified by the department and when they don't and a rejection comes along, immigration is blamed for not updating or reminding them.

What I don't understand is if one is paying close to 7k fees for something how can they forget the dates and wait for emails to come through when the process clearly states that one is eligible to apply 2 months before the 2 year anniversary of their initial visa application.
I'd say it is my own responsibility to check and remind myself about things that if forgotten can have an adverse effect on my future.
Good luck for the upcoming application 

Kind Regards,
Becky


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## Hassali.abdi (Jul 28, 2014)

Becky26 said:


> Hey Hassan,
> 
> Even if DIBP doesn't notify you via email or letter, you need to still apply and provide additional documents supporting your subclass 100. Thats the thing, some how many are under the impression or are waiting to get notified by the department and when they don't and a rejection comes along, immigration is blamed for not updating or reminding them.
> 
> ...


Hi Becky,

Nice to hear from you. I agree with you that eligibility date is a turning point for all partner visa holders(309/820). It is a date that we have to remember as we do of our date of birth.

It is clearly clarified about the eligibility date in our visa grant letters that it is 2 yrs counted from our initial apication date. So for me, it is a day that I habe been waiting for the last 11 months or so. Cant forget it unless I am careless about PR visa.

I will make sure that I submit my "more information to DIBP exactly 2 months prior to the eligibilty date. Thanks for reminding us this and I appreciate your inputs to this forum.

Hassan


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## YYC2BNE (Oct 23, 2015)

You realise they're not actually "punishing" anyone right? They're following guidelines/regulations/procedures outlined and communicated at multiple steps along the application process.


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## Becky26 (Jun 18, 2013)

Hassali.abdi said:


> Hi Becky,
> 
> Nice to hear from you. I agree with you that eligibility date is a turning point for all partner visa holders(309/820). It is a date that we have to remember as we do of our date of birth.
> 
> ...


Hey Hassan,

Likewise, hope everything is well with you and the family 

Thats what I mean, too much is at stake if there is a mistake and margin of error with DIBP is next to zero unless of course one has a spare 7-8k to fork out to go through the agonising process again. 
Putting up a fight with DIBP in majority of the cases doesn't yield anything cause they are following protocol and ultimately it is OUR responsibility at the end of the day.

I don't think I will ever forgot the date when I applied for our visa or even the dates when our applications got approved. We will actually be celebrating it for the years to come hahah, sounds silly but it is just as special as our wedding anniversary or our birthdays. Just the security of not having to deal with immigration as hectically as before and a future together with my husband is a good enough reason to celebrate 

Kind Regards,
Becky


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## Yerevanits (Jun 30, 2015)

I understand how everybody sees this as an important reminder to be on top of things with DIBP, but I think this just shows that system is broken.

The Department should be allowed to make such an important decision without trying all contact information they have on their system. Sure they have regulations etc that show they can do this and it is our responsibility etc.

Once upon a time, Immigration had a moto "People, Our Business", clearly this is no longer the case.

I hope that trapper challenges this decision and wins.


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

The one thing we have to remember is that the onus is on us to provide enough evidence when we submit the application. DIBP are being nice asking for additional documents if they don't have enough. They are under no legal obligation to ask for more documents.

We should all be making sure we provide more than enough documents for them to make their decision.


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## ausharrold (Oct 28, 2015)

This is very interesting, take note about not being notified,

1114276 [2013] MRTA 2764 (21 October 2013)

On 8 April 2002 the delegate refused to grant the visa on the basis that the applicant did not satisfy the criteria in cl.820.211(2)(d) because she did not meet the required criteria in Schedule 3 and the delegate decided not to waive these requirements. On 11 October 2011 the applicant lodged another application for a UK 820/BS 801 Partner visa. This application was found to be invalid under s48 of the Act on the basis that she was refused a Partner visa application previously. Subsequently, the Department realised that the applicant had not been correctly notified of the original refusal. On 2 December 2011, the Department renotified the decision to refuse the applicant's applications for a Partner (temporary) (Class UK) and Partner (Residence) Class BS visas lodged in January 2002.
3.The applicant applied for review of these decisions to this Tribunal on 23 December 2011. 
4.The applicant appeared before the Tribunal on 21 October 2013 to give evidence and present arguments. The Tribunal also received oral evidence from the sponsor, XXXXXXXXXX. The Tribunal hearing was conducted with the assistance of an interpreter in the Tonga and English languages.
5.For the following reasons, the Tribunal has concluded that the matter should be remitted for reconsideration.

Cheers

Harry


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## aussiesteve (Mar 16, 2012)

Yerevanits said:


> I understand how everybody sees this as an important reminder to be on top of things with DIBP, but I think this just shows that system is broken.
> 
> The Department should be allowed to make such an important decision without trying all contact information they have on their system. Sure they have regulations etc that show they can do this and it is our responsibility etc.
> 
> ...


To challange you need grounds and as they will be able to prove they sent the relevant emails to the last address the OP provided he has no case, and i would hate to contemplate the legal costs involved!


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## CCMS (Oct 10, 2013)

ausharrold said:


> This is very interesting, take note about not being notified, 1114276 [2013] MRTA 2764 (21 October 2013)


There is a major difference between being notified ( and not receiving the notification) or not being notified " correctly", which has to do with prescribed timeframes and means of notification.

www.ausvisa.net.au


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## YYC2BNE (Oct 23, 2015)

Yerevanits said:


> I understand how everybody sees this as an important reminder to be on top of things with DIBP, but I think this just shows that system is broken.
> 
> The Department should be allowed to make such an important decision without trying all contact information they have on their system. Sure they have regulations etc that show they can do this and it is our responsibility etc.
> 
> ...


Broken? no, following strict guidelines to ensure applications get processed in a timely manner more like it.

Can you imagine how much longer you yourself will have to wait if DIBP started doing things the way you describe? 100s of thousands of different visa applications, then needing to follow up with every method of communication on file if they don't receive word back from them. Do they wait 30/60 days between each one? Do they try again after that 2/3/4 times? How many of these are offshore applications? 
Your wait time would blow out to a timeline that you, I suspect, would think is unacceptable.


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## Hassali.abdi (Jul 28, 2014)

ausharrold said:


> This is very interesting, take note about not being notified,
> 
> 1114276 [2013] MRTA 2764 (21 October 2013)
> 
> ...


Wht a sacring article!!.

let me ask you a question RMAs and other forum members that I asked sometime back in onather thread, in regards to "Notification of Change of circumstance".

I was granted my SC 309 early 2015. Arrived May 2015. We have got a baby boy in November 2015. I have not notified DIBP about the new born baby. I was advised to wait till DIBP requests for more information and submit the birth cenrtificate with the other informations. My eligibility date is coming in months.

How will that affects me. You thoughts are
valuable.

Hassan


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## Yerevanits (Jun 30, 2015)

YYC2BNE said:


> Broken? no, following strict guidelines to ensure applications get processed in a timely manner more like it.
> 
> Can you imagine how much longer you yourself will have to wait if DIBP started doing things the way you describe? 100s of thousands of different visa applications, then needing to follow up with every method of communication on file if they don't receive word back from them. Do they wait 30/60 days between each one? Do they try again after that 2/3/4 times? How many of these are offshore applications?
> Your wait time would blow out to a timeline that you, I suspect, would think is unacceptable.


I'm not suggesting they do this for every visa class, just for second stage processing. And obviously in most cases it wouldn't be required because most people are on top of it.

Life happens, people forget things, to be punished so severely for a simple mistake is how the system works, but should it really work like this? These are peoples lives we are talking about and how many of us will ever have our lives ruined by a spam filter?

Sure the system is heartless and cold and has no compassion. That doesn't mean it is right or that it has to be that way.


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## Cyllan (Mar 24, 2016)

Yerevanits said:


> I'm not suggesting they do this for every visa class, just for second stage processing. And obviously in most cases it wouldn't be required because most people are on top of it.
> 
> Life happens, people forget things, to be punished so severely for a simple mistake is how the system works, but should it really work like this? These are peoples lives we are talking about and how many of us will ever have our lives ruined by a spam filter?
> 
> Sure the system is heartless and cold and has no compassion. That doesn't mean it is right or that it has to be that way.


But why for second stage Spouse and not for Pros Marriage to Spouse? Or for some of the parent visas that go from temp to permanent?
Its our visa and it is made very clear in the paperwork that we need to keep our visas current.

You don't even need a request to start filing for the permanent stage. Our email did arrive but only 2 days before the eligibility date by which time we had already created the immi account and uploaded a heap of documents. For something as important as a visa you have to be proactive.


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

Yes life happens but when you are on a visa you should be aware of your requirements are and what is next. DIBP don't have time to be chasing people up. The processing time for second stage is insane now imagine calling the person, then having to resend it and calling them again to chase it up. All of this takes time.

All government departments say that the onus is on us to keep our addresses up to date. They also say that when an email is sent it is considered served. If you don't want to be conracted by email then apply by post and don't tell them to communicate with you via email.


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## Yerevanits (Jun 30, 2015)

Cyllan said:


> But why for second stage Spouse and not for Pros Marriage to Spouse? Or for some of the parent visas that go from temp to permanent?
> Its our visa and it is made very clear in the paperwork that we need to keep our visas current.
> 
> You don't even need a request to start filing for the permanent stage. Our email did arrive but only 2 days before the eligibility date by which time we had already created the immi account and uploaded a heap of documents. For something as important as a visa you have to be proactive.


Sure we are meant to be on top of things so it is completely our fault if we forget or don't read things properly. I'm not blaming the department.

But it is pretty harsh to have your life ruined from a simple mistake.


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

Hassali.abdi said:


> Wht a sacring article!!.
> 
> let me ask you a question RMAs and other forum members that I asked sometime back in onather thread, in regards to "Notification of Change of circumstance".
> 
> ...


All you need to do is submit your evidence when you are asked for it.


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## JandE (Jul 17, 2015)

Mish said:


> Yes life happens but when you are on a visa you should be aware of your requirements are and what is next. DIBP don't have time to be chasing people up. The processing time for second stage is insane now imagine calling the person, then having to resend it and calling them again to chase it up. All of this takes time.
> 
> All government departments say that the onus is on us to keep our addresses up to date. They also say that when an email is sent it is considered served. If you don't want to be conracted by email then apply by post and don't tell them to communicate with you via email.


Why not for Centrelink to ?

I had a claim refused because I missed the deadline for submitting one document.

Should I blame them for not reminding me ? Or accept the fact that I made the error.

If only we could always blame someone else, and get someone else to fix our mistakes.

Governments could employ more people to hold our hands, and increase taxes and fees to pay for it  Everyone up for that ?


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## CCMS (Oct 10, 2013)

I have had to chase up clients through FB messages because they were not responding to phone calls or changed their numbers without telling me or their email account did not work or they lost my emails or did not receive them somehow. It is very frustrating, but I am not a government department and I care about my clients. You can't expect government departments to operate outside their strict protocols though. It's pretty much like that all over the world.


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## CheeseBoard (Jan 1, 2016)

JandE said:


> ...Governments could employ more people to hold our hands, and increase taxes and fees to pay for it  Everyone up for that ?


You make it sound like they haven't been increasing application fee's year on year. The application fee's are a joke compared to other countries and considering the fee's DIBP have very poor customer service and make it very hard to get any information about your application.


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## JandE (Jul 17, 2015)

CheeseBoard said:


> You make it sound like they haven't been increasing application fee's year on year.


I am not sure how you read that into my message.

What I am saying is how would we like it if they raised it even more so that they had extra staff to hold our hands while doing the applications.

Then we may not need migration agents to help us to get it right.

Individuals can currently pay migration agents if they want someone else to take the responsibility.

But if we choose to do it ourselves, and save money, then maybe we should do it ourselves and do it properly.



CheeseBoard said:


> The application fee's are a xxxxxxx joke compared to other countries


The application fees may be set high to trim down the application numbers, as there are already too many applications for places each year.

In theory there is room to go higher, to really cut down tne numbers of applications. 
Most people will stay pay... Supply and Demand at work... See what happens in July....


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

JandE said:


> Governments could employ more people to hold our hands, and increase taxes and fees to pay for it  Everyone up for that ?


If their employees are striking because the government can't afford a payrise then I don't think they can afford to employ more people.


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

CheeseBoard said:


> You make it sound like they haven't been increasing application fee's year on year. The application fee's are a joke compared to other countries and considering the fee's DIBP have very poor customer service and make it very hard to get any information about your application.


But Australia the sponsor does not need to make a specific amount of money to sponsor or have been at that job a certain amount of time.

I know the UK and US both need a specific amount of money to sponsor. The US they can have a co-sponsor.

Yes our application fees are expensive but how would people feel if they couldn't sponsor their partner if they were on Centrelink or a student? Atleast this way they can borrow money from family.


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## CheeseBoard (Jan 1, 2016)

Mish said:


> But Australia the sponsor does not need to make a specific amount of money to sponsor or have been at that job a certain amount of time.
> 
> I know the UK and US both need a specific amount of money to sponsor. The US they can have a co-sponsor.
> 
> Yes our application fees are expensive but how would people feel if they couldn't sponsor their partner if they were on Centrelink or a student? Atleast this way they can borrow money from family.


That is very true, it's one thing I dislike about the Australian eligibility but it could be said the high application fee is offsetting this.


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## YYC2BNE (Oct 23, 2015)

CheeseBoard, in what way does the "DIBP have very poor customer service"?


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## DJKOR (Nov 4, 2015)

I can understand how frustrated the OP would be especially after he had a bit of a vent. But when dealing with something to this level that can really have an effect on your life, you also need to remember that you're dealing with the government here and you need to keep your mind on track.

My partner and I are using Google Apps for mail and the Gmail spam filtering is pretty aggressive at times. My partner used to have lots of Westpac and IMMI emails captured by spam which then gets automatically deleted after a month. I'm in IT though so I always have a habit of checking spam occasionally to determine if I need to set filters and luckily I've now set all the appropriate filters. Even so, I still make sure my partner checks spam every now and again. 

For someone less technically minded, I can see how sometimes things like this can get beyond your knowledge, but when you set up your contact preferences, you can always use mail instead. Though that can be a bit of a moot point because mail can go missing rather than into a spam box. I can understand though if someone sets up email as their preference and would assume government related emails would never go to spam, but once again you need to be thinking ahead and following things up if you aren't hearing anything.

While my partner and myself certainly felt the impact when the application fees went up and we developed a bad taste for the DIBP afterwards, we knew that a) you can not really value your relationship with money, and b) if current processing times were at 12-15 months even with such a high fee, we'd hate to see what it would be like with a lower fee. It's like the whole prestige personalised plates debate on pricing. Yes it's expensive, but you are paying a price so it prevents everyone jumping on board. On the topic of it being more expensive than other countries, that may be so, but then you have to wonder if that's the case, why don't others choose to go to those countries instead of Australia.


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## YYC2BNE (Oct 23, 2015)

Some countries are cheaper to apply, like Canada. But when you consider the processing times I'd rather pay more than wait longer. Canada's posted wait times for partner visas is currently 17 months for offshore apps and 26 months for onshore.


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## Trapper (Apr 18, 2012)

JandE said:


> Why not for Centrelink to ?
> 
> I had a claim refused because I missed the deadline for submitting one document.
> 
> ...


I detest your high handed smug attitude to all this, get off that high horse of yours. All I would like is some fair treatment from a deeply flawed system and I don't need the government to hold my hand as you so arrogantly put it. 
As it is I am effectively being deported from the country, have to apply from the UK which will take 12 to 15 months to process, plus banned from re-entering Australia until visa is processed.
To me that is very harsh punishment for human error, being careless or whatever you want to call it.


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## JandE (Jul 17, 2015)

Trapper said:


> I detest your high handed smug attitude to all this, get off that high horse of yours. All I would like is some fair treatment from a deeply flawed system and I don't need the government to hold my hand as you so arrogantly put it.
> As it is I am effectively being deported from the country, have to apply from the UK which will take 12 to 15 months to process, plus banned from re-entering Australia until visa is processed.
> To me that is very harsh punishment for human error, being careless or whatever you want to call it.


I am not on a high horse. I have had a claim rejected rhe other day due to missing a deadline. And those were my thoughts at the time.

Ok maybe i should not vent my thoughts...


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

Trapper said:


> I detest your high handed smug attitude to all this, get off that high horse of yours. All I would like is some fair treatment from a deeply flawed system and I don't need the government to hold my hand as you so arrogantly put it.
> As it is I am effectively being deported from the country, have to apply from the UK which will take 12 to 15 months to process, plus banned from re-entering Australia until visa is processed.
> To me that is very harsh punishment for human error, being careless or whatever you want to call it.


Just make sure you supply enough evidence. DIBP contacted you for additional evidence which means you didn't provide enough evidence and/or they had doubts about your relationship. It is not very common for someone from a low risk country to be asked for additional evidence.

If they hadn't had required additional evidence then you would have gotten the grant and none of this would have happened.

Fingers crossed for you for a speedy grant of your 309/100. Just make sure you have everything ready and you can lodge it as soon as you have left the country.


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## Serenity88 (Jan 3, 2014)

I don't get it...So the OP missed the original 2-year eligibility date to apply for the second stage visa? So, say, he was eligible in 2014 he only realized a year later that he needed to lodge the second stage visa?

Can someone spell out the issue for me in clear terms please? Lost in translation here...


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

Serenity88 said:


> I don't get it...So the OP missed the original 2-year eligibility date to apply for the second stage visa? So, say, he was eligible in 2014 he only realized a year later that he needed to lodge the second stage visa?
> 
> Can someone spell out the issue for me in clear terms please? Lost in translation here...


DIBP sent him the "you are eligible and required to submit docs" but he never got it (probably went to spam). He didn't realise he had to submit extra docs he thought they just gave him the PR. He rang DIBP to ask what was happening and they told him about the email which he didn't receive so resent it to him. He lodged his 801. He got a letter from Medicare saying his Medicare has been cancelled because his visa status had changed. DIBP had emailed him a request for additional information which he didn't get and because he didn't respond the visa was rejected.

It appears that the emails went to spam but because they auto delete there is no way to know for sure.


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## Serenity88 (Jan 3, 2014)

Mish said:


> DIBP sent him the "you are eligible and required to submit docs" but he never got it (probably went to spam). He didn't realise he had to submit extra docs he thought they just gave him the PR. He rang DIBP to ask what was happening and they told him about the email which he didn't receive so resent it to him. He lodged his 801. He got a letter from Medicare saying his Medicare has been cancelled because his visa status had changed. DIBP had emailed him a request for additional information which he didn't get and because he didn't respond the visa was rejected.
> 
> It appears that the emails went to spam but because they auto delete there is no way to know for sure.


Ah ok, thanks for explaining. We're two months late applying for the 801 (so two months after eligibility date), so we better get cracking


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## wrussell (Dec 31, 2014)

Serenity88 said:


> I don't get it...So the OP missed the original 2-year eligibility date to apply for the second stage visa? So, say, he was eligible in 2014 he only realized a year later that he needed to lodge the second stage visa?
> 
> Can someone spell out the issue for me in clear terms please? Lost in translation here...


Can someone spell out the issue for me in clear terms please? Lost in translation here...[/QUOTE]

The first and second stage visa applications are always lodged together. There is no other way of lodging a valid application.

In some cases, depending on the circumstances of the case (length of relationship and children of the relationship) permanent residence is granted in the first instance so there is no second stage.

For second stage, two years after the application, immi want specified evidence that the relationship is continuing - statutory declarations, AFP clearance/s, forms 888 and so on.

In my experience, the minister usually reminds applicants about this, but does not have to:

MIGRATION ACT 1958 - SECT 54

Minister must have regard to all information in application
(1) The Minister must, in deciding whether to grant or refuse to grant a visa, have regard to all of the information in the application.

(2) For the purposes of subsection (1), information is in an application if the information is:

(a) set out in the application; or

(b) in a document attached to the application when it is made; or

(c) given under section 55.

(3) Without limiting subsection (1), a decision to grant or refuse to grant a visa may be made without giving the applicant an opportunity to make oral or written submissions.

MIGRATION ACT 1958 - SECT 55

Further information may be given
(1) Until the Minister has made a decision whether to grant or refuse to grant a visa, the applicant may give the Minister any additional relevant information and the Minister must have regard to that information in making the decision.

(2) Subsection (1) does not mean that the Minister is required to delay making a decision because the applicant might give, or has told the Minister that the applicant intends to give, further information.

Notes:

I do not initially bill clients for second stage, because there might not be a second stage due to a relationship breakdown or a permanent residence grant in the first instance or a decision not to proceed, but I always nominate my contact details for notifications about second stage.

On occasion I have had to go to extraordinary lengths to contact clients about second stage. They have changed their residential and email addresses and telephone numbers with letting me know and I have followed up with referees, employers and other parties.

I have been abused by a relative who wanted to know how I knew her telephone number - You entered it on a form 888.

I have had several clients who decided to manage their second stage themselves and then sent me an avalanche of emails asking how to proceed.

I find it interesting that clients who have invested $10K, sometimes more, on visa application charges, medicals, travel and so on balk at paying less than $400 to have their second stage professionally managed.

I charge 3 times this for second stage if the applicant was not my client.

I do not count it as a visa refusal on my account where a client takes the case out of my hands at any stage and proceeds DIY and is refused. As far as I know there has been only one such partner refusal in 13+ years and no others where I managed the case entirely - fingers crossed.


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## YYC2BNE (Oct 23, 2015)

Trapper said:


> I detest your high handed smug attitude to all this, get off that high horse of yours. All I would like is some fair treatment from a deeply flawed system and I don't need the government to hold my hand as you so arrogantly put it.
> As it is I am effectively being deported from the country, have to apply from the UK which will take 12 to 15 months to process, plus banned from re-entering Australia until visa is processed.
> To me that is very harsh punishment for human error, being careless or whatever you want to call it.


Mate your attitude is not exactly stellar either to be honest. Understandably you're pissed off, I would be too. You're looking for someone to blame and it sounds like that's the DIBP. Everyone's point is you should be looking closer to home for the reason this is all happening.
I doubt the system is "deeply flawed" as you make out and I've still not seen anyone post reasons they think it is broken or flawed even after I've asked why they think that. 
You having to reapply is not a punishment but a consequence. Huge difference.


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## Trapper (Apr 18, 2012)

> You having to reapply is not a punishment but a consequence. Huge difference.


 You're just being (wum) semantically silly now.


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## dejainc (Jun 23, 2013)

Check out this link, should help http://bit.ly/1oqzvUc


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## Trapper (Apr 18, 2012)

dejainc said:


> Check out this link, should help http://bit.ly/1oqzvUc


Thanks for the link ,marvelous advice. 
Got to go now as I'm having an acute attack of misanthropia.


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## DJKOR (Nov 4, 2015)

Trapper said:


> You're just being (wum) semantically silly now.


If it is responses along the lines of agreeing with your opinions on the DIBP, then maybe posting here trying to get that response from others isn't going to achieve that. Venting out directly to others here is only going to make them run out of patience when they are trying to be friendly.

People here have tried to state simple facts that they have and although not easily shown online, do feel the outcome is quite harsh but at the end of the day, it could have been avoided so we can't just agree that DIBP are in the wrong. Regrettably, we can't provide a solution for you and may not even be able to make you feel any better about the situation because honestly, there really isn't anything good about the situation for you. The only people that will give you a solution is the DIBP and assistance from Migration Agents which it seems you already know your options.

Yes this has thrown a giant spanner in the works for you and your partner but hopefully you both manage to work it all out and be able to get your lives back on track.


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## Undercover elephant (Oct 17, 2015)

I just can't understand why the DIBP can't show some compassion in this case. It has every right to refuse the visa but it does not mean it is the right thing to do. I think the right think to do would be just to ask for the evidence and continue, given that the OP claims he never received the emails. The OP did not intentionally do anything wrong against anyone, although by his carelessness he violated the requirement of not giving the evidence when requested. This could have happened to anyone, think how easy it is to lose track of times given the long waiting times involved here. It's not really his fault the email went to junk, although he could have been more careful in monitoring the whole process and following up. But this should not justify being deported and have to reapply from the start from overseas. Does the 3.5 years spent in the country and previous evidence submitted count for nothing? If so, it should count for something and there should be some flexibility shown in cases like this.


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## ampk (Sep 21, 2013)

In about a handful of years I have,

Been burnt so badly the burns unit took photos for training purposes.
Been a single parent from ages 10, 8 (girls) and boy 3.
Owned and run small a small company.
Had a long distance relationship wit 2 other kids.
Had Meliadosis (bad thing).
And a few other things.

Life can be busy, If they staff at IMMI had what I had to deal with, they would be offered stress leave - no an eviction notice AND EVERYONE OF THEM KNOW THAT.

Personally I hope the person that DECIDED to sent that letter gets Meliadosis!


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## CCMS (Oct 10, 2013)

Undercover elephant said:


> I just can't understand why the DIBP can't show some compassion in this case.


There are set protocols,procedures and legal requirements, which include set timeframes. There is simply no option to make exceptions for individual cases, as the system would become unworkable.

Like Wesley in his earlier post, I only sign up clients for the stage one process, with stage 2 provided as an optional extra. I have saved quite a few people from the OP's fate by sending them a reminder about the stage 2 deadline, even though I was no longer acting for them. Obviously many people simply do not read their visa grant letters properly, as many of my clients also seem confused about the stage 2 procedures. I have also had considerable problems contacting people for the stage 2 paperwork.

While a migration agent may make a considerable effort trying to track you down, if you cannot be contacted for whatever reason by the DIBP, they will simply follow procedure, which may result in a refusal.

www.ausvisa.net.au


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## Cyllan (Mar 24, 2016)

Yerevanits said:


> Sure we are meant to be on top of things so it is completely our fault if we forget or don't read things properly. I'm not blaming the department.
> 
> But it is pretty harsh to have your life ruined from a simple mistake.


Many of us have had our lives ruined by one mistake, one split second decision. Some of those mistakes/decisions were unavoidable. This wasn't 
As the agent said earlier, DIBP do not HAVE to tell you your PR paperwork is due. Its your visa, your responsibility.

I am sympathetic to the OP, but he can really blame no one but himself.


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## wrussell (Dec 31, 2014)

*This might be of interest to some applicants:*

There are a significant number of cases where second stage
Subclass 100/801 visas are being refused by the Department.
In the past this was unusual - after all the Department had already decided the
relationship was genuine.

The Department is now going in for more detailed investigations in second stage
processing of relationships that fit their risk profiles.

These include cases where there is a big age difference between the couple, where
the couple come from vastly different cultures and, most importantly, where the visa
holder had visa applications refused before applying for a partner visa.

These investigations can include home visits, telephone interviews and telephone
calls to people who have provided supporting statements or statutory declarations.
In one case a Subclass 801 visa was refused to an Indian national after
Departmental officers visited his parents in India and decided that they did not know
enough about his Australian wife.


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

WRussell that is very interesting but not surprising from what I have heard. Do you have any stats on rejections for 100 and 801 second stage visas?

One thing that confuses me is why are they more thorough at 100 and 801 than at the 309 and 820 stage?


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## wrussell (Dec 31, 2014)

I have not looked it up for a while, but this might be interesting:

http://resources.news.com.au/files/2012/08/26/1226458/447235-hs-file-sham-weddings.pdf


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## Aussie83 (Oct 15, 2015)

Trinidad's makes for a interesting stat.


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

wrussell said:


> I have not looked it up for a while, but this might be interesting:
> 
> http://resources.news.com.au/files/2012/08/26/1226458/447235-hs-file-sham-weddings.pdf


Very interesting. I assume that some could be from relationship breakdown too.

Interesting that one country I would expect to be high was very low and there were a couple of low risk countries that was very high too.


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## Cyllan (Mar 24, 2016)

Mish said:


> WRussell that is very interesting but not surprising from what I have heard. Do you have any stats on rejections for 100 and 801 second stage visas?
> 
> One thing that confuses me is why are they more thorough at 100 and 801 than at the 309 and 820 stage?


Possibly cause many of us can't actually live with our partners until we get married, and then get the 309 granted. My hubby and I couldn't live together for more than a couple of months at a time before he got his 309 as he had no visa enabling him to live in Australia, he could only visit as a tourist.
The time on the 309/820 shows how the relationship develops once you are married and living together.


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## Lisaa (Apr 6, 2016)

Trapper, there is a chance that DIBP incorrectly recorded your email address in their system. It could be an error on their side. Hopefully by now you have discussed your case with a migration agent or lawyer. Apply to DIBP to get a copy of your file (form 424A), then you will be able to see when they had sent those emails and which email address they used. Maybe also contact the Global Feedback Unit again. You mentioned that you wrote to them. Check if they are following it up. They definitely should be. By not receiving notification, you have been denied a fair chance to have your case reviewed at the AAT. A person I know had a similar thing happen to them (request for documents went to junk mail). They were 'lucky' to receive the refusal notification and then to successfully argue their case at AAT. 
Good luck, I sincerely hope you get this resolved in your favour.


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## Lisaa (Apr 6, 2016)

Also, there is a chance the emails were sent to an old address (or previous migration agent's address) if the old address was not 'end dated' in the system. 
Form 424A takes a while to process, in the meantime call the Global Feedback Unit and ask to have these things checked. And even if the email addresses were properly recorded and they email sent to your current address, it is not fair that DIBP did not call you before refusal. And then you didn't even know you were refused to lodge an appeal in time. In my view you were denied procedural fairness, considering the consequences of their decision to refuse without attempting to call you. Even if they 'didn't have to".


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## ampk (Sep 21, 2013)

Correct, during our PMV application they were not happy with my wife's ex signature for kids permission. 

They sent a email with my sisters name on it and almost her email address but a mistake .con instead of .com.

This email eventually bounced back to IMMI and they simply forward it on to the correct email for my wife, with all errors to see.

Luckily my sister did not get it as she was not confident to give her ID as required for 888 to an embassy in Russia.


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## aussiesteve (Mar 16, 2012)

Lisaa said:


> Also, there is a chance the emails were sent to an old address (or previous migration agent's address) if the old address was not 'end dated' in the system.
> Form 424A takes a while to process, in the meantime call the Global Feedback Unit and ask to have these things checked. And even if the email addresses were properly recorded and they email sent to your current address, it is not fair that DIBP did not call you before refusal. And then you didn't even know you were refused to lodge an appeal in time. In my view you were denied procedural fairness, considering the consequences of their decision to refuse without attempting to call you. Even if they 'didn't have to".


Fairness has nothing to do with the situation. As both CCMS and Wrussell ( both respected Migration Agents) have stated earlier in these posts there are strict guidelines to be followed and the department is under no obligation to continue to chase up a failure to respond on the applicants part.
If however the DIBP cant prove an email was sent to the last address provided by the applicant it would be a different case.


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

aussiesteve said:


> If however the DIBP cant prove an email was sent to the last address provided by the applicant it would be a different case.


Exactly! The onus is on the applicant to make sure they notify DIBP if they change address or email address. If a person has changed address it is also good to chase them up after a month to confirm that they received the request and it was actioned. We all know that Australia Post is not always reliable.


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## ausharrold (Oct 28, 2015)

In my case I wanted to be notified by email, but they sent letter to address, notifying me about my visa and I did not get it, they then said they will send the letter via email.


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## dejainc (Jun 23, 2013)

Mish said:


> Exactly! The onus is on the applicant to make sure they notify DIBP if they change address or email address. If a person has changed address it is also good to chase them up after a month to confirm that they received the request and it was actioned. We all know that Australia Post is not always reliable.


How do you inform them? Is it still the 1022 form? On it it says that:

"You do not have to notify the department of any changes in your 
circumstances that occurred:
• after you were granted your visa (if you applied for your visa in 
Australia); or
• after you have been immigration cleared (if you applied for 
your visa outside Australia)."

Is there another form of some sort?

Our emails haven't changed but our residential address sure has, do we still need to tell them that even though they never sent mail to us before?


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## dejainc (Jun 23, 2013)

ausharrold said:


> In my case I wanted to be notified by email, but they sent letter to address, notifying me about my visa and I did not get it, they then said they will send the letter via email.


If DIBP stuffed up then its their responsibility to fix, like in your case. But in the OP's case DIBP did nothing wrong.


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

dejainc said:


> How do you inform them? Is it still the 1022 form? On it it says that:
> 
> "You do not have to notify the department of any changes in your
> circumstances that occurred:
> ...


Form 929. I am a believer of updating email and residential even if you have never gotten something by snail mail because you never know.


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## dejainc (Jun 23, 2013)

Good idea, going to fill that out now 

Edit: With Q5, do i have an application in progress? Do i pick No or Yes? 309 is approved, 100 isn't due to be notified for a few more months.


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## wrussell (Dec 31, 2014)

The 100 is in progress.


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## solskjaer (Apr 5, 2014)

Mish said:


> Out of curiosity what email domain do you use? We use gmail and it has always gone into the inbox from DIBP.


I am using Gmail, and did not receive DIBP's email for 2nd stage application invitation email. DIBP stated they send the email to me about two month ago. But I did receive DIBP's other email, its weird.


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## Bamborabi (Sep 21, 2015)

wrussell said:


> I have not looked it up for a while, but this might be interesting:
> 
> http://resources.news.com.au/files/2012/08/26/1226458/447235-hs-file-sham-weddings.pdf


What does granted and then cancelled mean in the file ? I see some who have suffered that fate.

Regards
Bamborabi


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## dejainc (Jun 23, 2013)

It could mean someone dobbed them in? It may also include applications where DIBP found the marriage to be a sham during the second stage processing and cancelled the visa.


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## AusIndo (Apr 28, 2015)

Yerevanits said:


> ...I'm not blaming the department...


Your previous posts demonstrate otherwise. Just be mindful of the words you choose. No offence!


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## ringu412 (Dec 27, 2015)

solskjaer said:


> I am using Gmail, and did not receive DIBP's email for 2nd stage application invitation email. DIBP stated they send the email to me about two month ago. But I did receive DIBP's other email, its weird.


Same problem Trapper, too bad we can't do anything else....


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## Trapper (Apr 18, 2012)

Just to bring everyone up to date. Been back in the UK now a couple of months and my 309 partnership visa application was finally submitted to the London office and will update my timeline on this thread for those interested:

http://www.australiaforum.com/visas-immigration/12740-offshore-spouse-visa-processing-times-london-embassy-87.html


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

Trapper said:


> Just to bring everyone up to date. Been back in the UK now a couple of months and my 309 partnership visa application was finally submitted to the London office and will update my timeline on this thread for those interested:
> 
> http://www.australiaforum.com/visas-immigration/12740-offshore-spouse-visa-processing-times-london-embassy-87.html


Good-luck. I hope it is processed fast for you.


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## montybobby84 (Aug 29, 2016)

Becky26 said:


> Hey Hassan,
> 
> Likewise, hope everything is well with you and the family
> 
> ...


Hi Becky,
Very new to this thread.So Plz,Plz help will much appreciate,
So here is my story i overstayed in oz,lodged onshore partner visa after our marriage with my oz wife in 2013 but got refusal but issued bvc,then lodged MRT but in May 2015 that got refuse to.because i couldn't get waived sch 3.so in oct 2015 me and my partner planned to move back to my home country and apply offshore.we applied in nov 2015 offshore and still waiting for to allocate co.i have got my medical done.we have joint lease,phone & internet bill,joint accounts,joint super,more than 100 photos with family,joint hotel bills,joint air tickets,car registration under both name etc from almost 3 years.any other documents i can provide please let me know.so can anyone please tell me that how long its gonna more take its almost 9 months since i have been applied.will i get 309 or 100 straightway because we have been married almost 3 years please keep in touch to share the things .
Once again Please reply, THANKS


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## Trapper (Apr 18, 2012)

A happy ending for those following this tale. finally got my partnership visa and PR granted.
Could have saved myself a lot of stress and money with a bit of care, all ends well though. A wrong has been righted.


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## Hassali.abdi (Jul 28, 2014)

Trapper said:


> A happy ending for those following this tale. finally got my partnership visa and PR granted.
> Could have saved myself a lot of stress and money with a bit of care, all ends well though. A wrong has been righted.


Waaaaw Congratulations Trapper. This is an awsome news. I am happy for you that finally you have got your PR visa. I was following since March 2016 when you shared your concerns with us in these forum

The end of stress. You are safe.

Enjoy life in Ausie.

Hassan


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## ampk (Sep 21, 2013)

Hope you have a better 2017 Trapper.


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