# Mark Northam Fraud Question re PIC 4020



## dunan (Oct 5, 2012)

Dear Mark or Someone that can help....

We have been married 5 years n lived together continuously in the Philippines. We were asked for additional doc concerning our annulment that was done in 2008. We sent all information in. To cut it short, yesterday we received a request ..PIA 4020 to explain in writing why the court concerned has no records of annulment taking place.

We are at a lost what to do as we paid a recommended attorney to handle the case and as there was no case to warrant a court appearance, we were given the transcripts of proceedings and finality of annulment of marriage. NSO n every relevant authority has accepted the documents as legal and we had no trouble until now...

So we are totally innocent but we are now accussed of presenting fraudulent documents....question is how do we prove that, it means travelling to a far city and no idea especially with the corruption here, that anyone concerned will help us...

My husband needs medical attention in Australia urgently and we have presented this evidence from his doctors here that is the case but our visa is being held up for reasons we have no control over....

Thanks for any help...


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

Hi -

Now that PIC4020 has been introduced into all the family visas, this is a perfect example of the kind of unfair treatment that can and will develop. Unfortunately all the case officer has to do is "not be satisfied" with any information or document in a visa application (or skills assessment application) and the end result can be a PIC4020 refusal and accompanying 3-year exclusion period on any other visa that has PIC4020.

Please email me directly (see my website in my signature link, click on the link, then click on Contact Us at the top of the screen) as I need to get some personal information from you and see what options may be available. I also need to see the specific letter from DIAC regarding PIC4020 which you can email me from the email addr on the Contact screen on our site.

Best,

Mark Northam


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## CollegeGirl (Nov 10, 2012)

Yikes, dunan, this is awful!  I hope Mark can help you. If anyone can, it's Mark.


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## Adventuress (Jan 8, 2012)

Dunan, I am so sorry to hear about your troubles, and I hope that you are able to get this sorted as soon as possible to start your life in Australia without the interference of this department.



MarkNortham said:


> Now that PIC4020 has been introduced into all the family visas, this is a perfect example of the kind of unfair treatment that can and will develop. Unfortunately all the case officer has to do is "not be satisfied" with any information or document in a visa application (or skills assessment application) and the end result can be a PIC4020 refusal and accompanying 3-year exclusion period on any other visa that has PIC4020.


This is exactly what I feared as soon as I heard about this new policy. We have seen plenty of personal bias from case officers everywhere; DIAC just put even more power into their hands.

And of course, it's most likely that claims of "fraudulent documents" will come from within "high risk" countries, i.e. those countries that don't have a well-developed bureacracy, and who don't document every single little thing on stamped and signed bits of paper. With every new change (the rising fees, prior to this) I become more and more convinced that the Australian government is putting in policies to prevent people from "high risk" countries immigrating. A new version of the White Australia policy.


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## CollegeGirl (Nov 10, 2012)

I didn't understand how this was different from already-existing policies that applied three-year bans for fraudulent visa application information - I think I'm starting to get the idea.


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## dunan (Oct 5, 2012)

Mark has been fantastic in our initial dealings with him...We emailed CO telling her what our plans are to dispute her assumptions.

1. Trial judge Indar Al, Haj was banned in 2012 for corruption, 5 years after he issued our annulment decree. All our documents look genuine with stamps and signitures all there.

2. All documents pertaining to our marriage has been accepted by NSO.

3. We tracked down our attorney today and will request CO, if we have to make the trip to ask him for an explanation...Its a plane flight plus accommodation, so another un-necessary expense. We have also tracked the psychiatrist who did the report on my ex husband.

The biggest problem is we cannot be upfront with these people and talk via telephone like any civilized country could, because they would make some excuse to not talk to us.

So fingers crossed n hope reason prevails..haha..Thanks guys...


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## dunan (Oct 5, 2012)

Well tonite my CO rang me....She was very pleasant and explained that due to the volume of cases against this judge, they had to sort thru every case.

She said because of our quick response she believed me. Now we have to handwrite a waiver and get it to VIA to be forwarded.

So at least I can sleep tonite lol..Many thanks once again to Mark...I would recommend him to anyone needing a conscientious agent..


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

Hi Dunan -

Great outcome! It's great that your case officer was fair and reasonable about this - great job with the response and I'm very glad that DIAC saw things your way.

Best,

Mark Northam


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## sunnysmile (Oct 13, 2011)

Adventuress said:


> With every new change (the rising fees, prior to this) I become more and more convinced that the Australian government is putting in policies to prevent people from "high risk" countries immigrating. A new version of the White Australia policy.


I have never imagined that I will start to think about them that way but as time goes by I am starting to. Few days ago I watched "Australia with Simon Reeve" and in the second episode he visited refugee camp in Darwin where he checked conditions there. One thing he said:" The Government policy of mandatory detention and processing that lasts months or even years helps to discourage potential refugees to come to Australia". Policy of intentional slow processing?That made me think - what if they have that kind of policy for migrants from not so economically interesting countries - mandatory "security check" that lasts 1-2 years to discourage potential migrants from migrating from those countries.


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## Adventuress (Jan 8, 2012)

sunnysmile said:


> I have never imagined that I will start to think about them that way but as time goes by I am starting to. Few days ago I watched "Australia with Simon Reeve" and in the second episode he visited refugee camp in Darwin where he checked conditions there. One thing he said:" The Government policy of mandatory detention and processing that lasts months or even years helps to discourage potential refugees to come to Australia". Policy of intentional slow processing?That made me think - what if they have that kind of policy for migrants from not so economically interesting countries - mandatory "security check" that lasts 1-2 years to discourage potential migrants from migrating from those countries.


Absolutely, I have thought the same for years. If you dig deep - on the forum, in newspapers, etc. - you will find plenty of stories to support this idea. One big thing is the fees - if you make it way too expensive for someone in a poorer country, then there's no way they're getting in. US, UK, Canada, Europe no problem, because the currencies and costs of living are comparable. But a country where the minimum annual salary is less than the fees it takes to apply? Hardly a chance. That's one way to keep them out.

I find it so funny when people in the asylum seeker debate tell these poor people to join a queue - as if immigration to Australia is open to absolutely everybody. Sorry, that's not the case - Australia makes it impossible for people who are not from countries of similar economic standing to be even eligible to join a queue. You've got to either be skilled or have bucketloads of money for student fees. Oh, and let's not forget that to become skilled you have to have bucketloads of money to pay for university in your own country.

In a large part of the world, a person's success in life has nothing to do with their intelligence, talents, or potential, as in Australia. Instead, it has everything to do with the family into which they were lucky enough or unlucky enough to be born, and the connections in high places that family may or not have.

So if one is unlucky enough to be born into a family with no connections, there's no way that person is going to become skilled or find bucketloads of money, and so become eligible to "join the queue".

There's now this talk of economic migrants. Well, why not? If the country you were born in treats you poorly, no matter what you give to it, why should it be a crime to seek another country which would value your contribution? (By the way, a crime only in the eyes of the receiving country, e.g. Australia, but not in the country that loses out)

Anyone born in Australia should remember that they simply won the genetic lottery. If you were on the other side, I'm sure you'd do anything possible to make a better life for your family too.

Honestly I am sick and tired of this non-debate about immigrants and asylum seekers and refugees. You would think that after several decades of receiving wave upon wave of immigrants from all over the world - and even being a country mostly composed of immigrants in some form or another - people would learn, but no. It's cyclical and it's never-ending. Just like the government's policies.


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## michael_popular (Jun 7, 2014)

Hi Mark! Hi Guys... I need your advise, I just lodged my Student Visa Application and I received an email from my case officer for an invitation to comment (PIC 4020). There was a particular question that I misunderstood on the application. I ticked no on the part that asks

"Have you, or any other person included in this application, ever:
• been in Australia and not complied with visa conditions or departed
Australia outside your authorised period of stay?
• had an application for entry to Australia refused, or had a visa for
Australia cancelled?"

I actually had 2 previous applications that was denied, and one that was granted last year. It was an honest mistake and I replied to my case officer's email immediately stating my reasons but i did not get any reply yet. I was just wondering if this is just a formality for them to deny my Visa Application or will they give me a chance to proceed?


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

Hi Michael_popular -

DIBP is being very tough on PIC4020 these days. I just saw a client for a consultation in a similar situation - an honest mistake, had forgotten about 2 previous refusals. Visa refused under PIC4020 for that reason.

Given how tough DIBP is being on these, my view is that any applicant who is facing a PIC4020 allegation needs to respond with everything you've got to try and avoid a refusal. In the case of two previous refusals not declared on an application, that may be very challenging - DIBP may be convinced that forgetting one, perhaps long ago, is reasonable, but two is another story.

You may want to think about any special circumstances such as stress, anxiety, problems in your personal life, work problems, etc that you could document to help explain why you were confused or distracted, etc when you completed the visa application.

Unfortunately in many cases DIBP assumes you are "guilty until proven innocent", and this is especially true with PIC4020 allegations. The best, and only way to fight PIC4020 allegations is with as much documentary evidence as you can muster, keeping in mind that under PIC4020, it is not a factor that you need to have known about the false information on the application - just the fact that there was false information is enough.

You may also want to request additional time (often is granted) and prepare a full PIC4020 waiver submission arguing why there are compelling reasons for the grant of the visa that benefit Australian citizens, permanent residents, or Australia itself.

Hope this helps -

Best,

Mark Northam



michael_popular said:


> Hi Mark! Hi Guys... I need your advise, I just lodged my Student Visa Application and I received an email from my case officer for an invitation to comment (PIC 4020). There was a particular question that I misunderstood on the application. I ticked no on the part that asks
> 
> "Have you, or any other person included in this application, ever:
> • been in Australia and not complied with visa conditions or departed
> ...


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## michael_popular (Jun 7, 2014)

Thanks for the advise Mark... I really appreciate it. Tomorrow, I will be calling my Case Officer regarding this matter. I will keep you guys updated. However, do you think withdrawing my application would be the best option so I can lodge another application right away?


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## michael_popular (Jun 7, 2014)

Hi Guys! I don't know if this is a bad sign.. I called the Australian Embassy Today and the Representative who answered won't let me speak to my case officer. They are claiming that they haven't received my e-mail and asked me to resend it and just wait for my case officer's reply.


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

Hi Michael -

Not sure about not allowing you to speak to the case officer (would definitely keep a log of the date/time/what was said for any calls to/from DIBP), however the way PIC4020 is constructed, if you withdraw the application before it is refused, then whatever incorrect info you gave is not generally able to be used against you in a future application. For a future application they could decide to go over and check it extra closely if you had a history of a withdrawn application with prior PIC4020 allegations made (but no refusal of that prior application) but essentially withdrawing the current application before they refuse it should prevent a PIC4020 exclusion period from being imposed as related to the current application. I haven't seen your application and don't have all your details so I can't give you specific advice for your case, but hope this general legal info about PIC4020 is helpful as you consider your options.

Hope this helps -

Best,

Mark Northam


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## michael_popular (Jun 7, 2014)

Hi Mark! Hi Guys... Today I got a reply from may case officer telling me that they are giving me 28 days to give further comments and that his grateful if don't have any so they can proceed with the assessment. I don't think pursuing my application would benefit me and so I just decided to withdraw it and once confirmed, i'll lodge another student visa application by next week. I should be in Perth before the 24th of July as I have already paid my tuition fees and my Insurance for the duration of my entire stay if granted.

Regards,
Michael


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## michael_popular (Jun 7, 2014)

Hi Mark! Hello Guys.... I called the Embassy Today and the representative told me that the case officer already acknowledged the withdrawal of my Student Visa Application. I will be lodging again next week. This time i'll make sure to carefully read and understand every question. Yey!


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

So far, so good - no refusal!

Best of luck going forward - would take a careful look at the Genuine Student policy elements as they may be inclined to give your next application a close look.

Best,

Mark Northam



michael_popular said:


> Hi Mark! Hello Guys.... I called the Embassy Today and the representative told me that the case officer already acknowledged the withdrawal of my Student Visa Application. I will be lodging again next week. This time i'll make sure to carefully read and understand every question. Yey!


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## michael_popular (Jun 7, 2014)

Hi Mark! Yep... Thanks! he he he


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## monster (Sep 10, 2014)

Dear Mark ,
can a student visa application be denied on the basis of a previous PIC 4020 ban? provided the student visa application is filed outside the ban period.


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

Hi Monster -

You'll have to look at the specific legislation re: PIC4020, however generally the PIC4020 ban lasts for 3 years after the PIC4020-based refusal. After the PIC4020 ban is over (ie, 3 years has passed), that ban would not be a reason that DIBP can use to directly refuse a visa for PIC4020 reasons. However, I would not be surprised if an application from a person who was previously refused for PIC4020 is given a very close look by DIBP. A track record of previously providing inaccurate information or bogus documents can certainly cause additional scrutiny for future applications. All the more reason to make sure any future application is bulletproof and fully details how the student meets the genuine student (as appropriate) requirements if lodging a future student visa.

Hope this helps -

Best,

Mark Northam


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