# partner visa sponsor going bankrupt...



## hime-sama (Jul 8, 2014)

hello everyone. im a long time lurker first time poster and i am bricking it! My partner is about to be declared bankrupt and i am terrified that this will affect his sponsorship of me. He has been employed for the past 3-4 years in the same job, recently had a pay rise and i've been living of his income with him since i got here last year..... has anyone had experience with this as i so scared that they're going to refuse my visa because of this.


thanks in advance!


----------



## CollegeGirl (Nov 10, 2012)

I wouldn't worry about it. As long as he doesn't owe debt to the Australian government, his credit is really irrelevant. Did you already apply? If so, I wouldn't worry. If you haven't yet, all they care about is that you can support yourselves - provide evidence you can do that (payslips, tax assessments, etc.) and it won't be an issue. In fact, I know it sounds backwards, but I'd think bankruptcy would almost go in your favor, I'd think, since with less debts, that's more money out of your partner's paycheck that can go towards supporting you. I mean, I wouldn't be ADVERTISING it to DIBP or anything, but it's not something they ask - like I said, they care only about Aussie Government debts.


----------



## hime-sama (Jul 8, 2014)

CollegeGirl said:


> I wouldn't worry about it. As long as he doesn't owe debt to the Australian government, his credit is really irrelevant. Did you already apply? If so, I wouldn't worry. If you haven't yet, all they care about is that you can support yourselves - provide evidence you can do that (payslips, tax assessments, etc.) and it won't be an issue. In fact, I know it sounds backwards, but I'd think bankruptcy would almost go in your favor, I'd think, since with less debts, that's more money out of your partner's paycheck that can go towards supporting you. I mean, I wouldn't be ADVERTISING it to DIBP or anything, but it's not something they ask - like I said, they care only about Aussie Government debts.


Well half of his debt that he is going bankrupt for is tax debt but it gets wiped.... i am providing a whole years worth of bank statements as proof of financial togetherness *not even a word but hey ho* so they will be able to see we can comfortably live of just his income alone.


----------



## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

I believe that a tax debt is a debt to the government but that is my opinion. That is because the money from our taxes goes towards roads, education etc and you are paying the government. But check with Mark and see what he thinks.

Also one thing I will mention is that I have heard that the ATO can re-instate your tax debt, but not sure on the truth with that one.

Also just remember when he goes bankrupt he will not be able to travel overseas during the bankrupt period without the permission of the courts, take our credit cards, get loans etc. Also will find it very hard to rent a property too. I thought I would just mention it as most people think that going bankrupt is easy, but I had a friend who did and she said it was the worst decision she ever made.

Has he tried to go into a payment plan with the ATO to pay back the debt?


----------



## hime-sama (Jul 8, 2014)

Mish said:


> I believe that a tax debt is a debt to the government but that is my opinion. That is because the money from our taxes goes towards roads, education etc and you are paying the government. But check with Mark and see what he thinks.
> 
> Also one thing I will mention is that I have heard that the ATO can re-instate your tax debt, but not sure on the truth with that one.
> 
> ...


i know it's a debt to the government but according to his bankruptcy lawyer it gets wiped as soon as his bankruptcy is finalised (withing the next two weeks)

i have emailed the australian high commision migration branch in the uk previously and got a response that

_
"....even tax debt cannot stop your boyfriend from sponsoring you."_

and i've also rung immigration here and asked about sponsor tax debt and apparently they dont look into it thats also the advice of migration agents i've asked.... i'm in a whole massive confusion atm how can tax debt not affect it but bankruptcy might do??


----------



## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

A lot of things will not affect you sponsoring as people can sponsor on Centrelink. 

Here are my thoughts around it but this is just a guess and going on what I know from other people. A tax debt when you are paying it off is not classed as a debt to the government because it is current and you are currently paying it off and it has not become due and payable. Once they call in the debt collectors or you can bankrupt it is then classed as a debt to the government.


----------



## ampk (Sep 21, 2013)

hime-sama said:


> hello everyone. im a long time lurker first time poster and i am bricking it! My partner is about to be declared bankrupt and i am terrified that this will affect his sponsorship of me. He has been employed for the past 3-4 years in the same job, recently had a pay rise and i've been living of his income with him since i got here last year..... has anyone had experience with this as i so scared that they're going to refuse my visa because of this.
> 
> thanks in advance!


If your partner is/was employed then tax can not be his issue as it is paid by the employer or should be. You state a pay rise again it sounds like employed not a sub-contractor so there must be more to it - can you explain better.


----------



## hime-sama (Jul 8, 2014)

all his debts including his tax debt are from his previous marriage which ended in 2009-10 when he had his own buisness for a year. it's not a new one but he has had anxiety problems (medicated) and heart problems since the break up and hasnt wanted to face it till he met me he's been too scared. He wont have a tax debt from the past four years at all but he has done previously and it wasn't sorted for the above reasons.


----------



## ampk (Sep 21, 2013)

Enter a payment plan even if for 5 or 10 years with the tax department - never upset them if it is actual money owed to them (if possible) the rest will often take 10-20 cents in the $ and he can walk out clean after paying that. PM me if that is an option will give more accurate advice (I know of company and tax things a little).


----------



## hime-sama (Jul 8, 2014)

he's already in the process of declaring bankruptcy as tax debt is only a small proportion of the debts she left him with. hence the issue....


----------



## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

ampk said:


> Enter a payment plan even if for 5 or 10 years with the tax department - never upset them if it is actual money owed to them (if possible) the rest will often take 10-20 cents in the $ and he can walk out clean after paying that. PM me if that is an option will give more accurate advice (I know of company and tax things a little).


Exactly! They even let people pay small amounts like $20.

Do you anything about ATO being able to reinstate the debt after going bankrupt? Someone told me that and I thought it was interesting (not that I am going bankrupt I am just curious).


----------



## hime-sama (Jul 8, 2014)

well i asked mark on here and apparently no issues at all so win! and i have already asked about tax debt and thats not an issue so even better win!


----------



## ampk (Sep 21, 2013)

The tax debt can be around his neck long after a visa issue (not that it was for the visa) Even if it was a Pty Ltd company see if he can sort it with the ATO. It leaves many more options open to him/you in work and travel.


----------



## hime-sama (Jul 8, 2014)

The bankruptcy wipes the tax debt completely! He isn't liable for it once he's declared bankrupt ive asked his bankruptcy lawyer these things a million times. His bankruptcy doesn't affect my work or my travel only his and thats only certain jobs and you can still go abroad if someone else pays ie: me!


----------



## CollegeGirl (Nov 10, 2012)

Interesting... my parents declared bankruptcy in the US, and the only thing that could NOT be wiped was debt to the government... tax debts and educational loans. Like I said, interesting! I don't know how it works here though - I'd take Mish's advice and post on the "Ask Mark!" thread at the top of the forum and ask a real agent. Make sure to mention the tax debt.


----------



## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

CollegeGirl said:


> Interesting... my parents declared bankruptcy in the US, and the only thing that could NOT be wiped was debt to the government... tax debts and educational loans. Like I said, interesting! I don't know how it works here though - I'd take Mish's advice and post on the "Ask Mark!" thread at the top of the forum and ask a real agent. Make sure to mention the tax debt.


Now I am interested to read about bankruptcy in the US hehe. They can't wipe HECS I know that for sure.

OP - I know you are partner is already in the process but if you can please reconsider. My friend that did it said it was the worst thing she did and didn't realise how hard it would be. It affectes her even after the bankruptcy period as was on her credit report so took her a long time to be able to get a house loan (about 10 years). She couldn't get a brand new car when she was bankrupt as couldn't buy anything for over $4k or so, so she could only get a lemon or bomb.

Good-luck with it


----------



## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

I haven't completely lost it (yet). I knew that I had heard that the ATO can re-instate your tax debt (had a vague memory from tax law at uni) and I found out that if you earn over a specific amount after tax you need to make payments to your bankruptcy estate. That amount is about $52,500 after tax with no dependants. 

Strangely enough I find this interesting .... Maybe I should change occupations


----------



## Maggie-May24 (Jul 24, 2011)

Mish, that makes sense to me. It doesn't seem right that you can simply wipe clean debt and start fresh if you're income is high enough. I realise bankruptcy has a lot of negative consequences, but I think people often treat it too lightly in order to start over again financially.


----------



## hime-sama (Jul 8, 2014)

He hasn't taken this decision lightly trust me. He doesn't earn high enough to make contributions anyway especially with me being classed as a dependant (which by law I apparently am) back in the uk I own my own house outright no mortgage so buying a house here once my visa is granted isn't going to be a problem we don't need a home loan. I have asked mark and he said it won't be an issue, as has the migration agent that has just accepted my application. And another one I emailed yesterday asking about both bankruptcy and tax debt.


----------



## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

We didn't disagree with the immigration part we were just advising on the bankruptcy part to help you out, incase you were unaware as some don't realise until it is too late. I would not want to see anyone go through what my friend did.

Incase you are not aware. In Australia if you are not a citizen you need permission to buy property (your partner can not be on the title during bankruptcy period). Even as an Australian citizen if I bought property with my husband we need to apply for permission for him to buy property with me . Not sure why you need to when one is a citizen...


----------



## Maggie-May24 (Jul 24, 2011)

I'm surprised he's able to declare bankruptcy if you own a home with no mortgage as I'd assume they'd take that asset into account. But I don't know much about bankruptcy.


----------



## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

maggie-may24 said:


> I'm surprised he's able to declare bankruptcy if you own a home with no mortgage as I'd assume they'd take that asset into account. But I don't know much about bankruptcy.


I believe it is her that owns a house not him. I did bankruptcy at uni all those years ago so know a few bits and pieces but they take all your assets into account and if you have a house you have to sell it. They have all these rules too on what you can own after you go bankrupt and you have to get permission or tell the trustee (can't remember which) when buying big items (I guess because if you can afford them you can afford to pay back the debt). I loved the law subjects at uni though could never be a lawyer ... Accounting interests me more


----------



## GBP (Jun 1, 2013)

Mish said:


> We didn't disagree with the immigration part we were just advising on the bankruptcy part to help you out, incase you were unaware as some don't realise until it is too late. I would not want to see anyone go through what my friend did.
> 
> Incase you are not aware. In Australia if you are not a citizen you need permission to buy property (your partner can not be on the title during bankruptcy period). Even as an Australian citizen if I bought property with my husband we need to apply for permission for him to buy property with me . Not sure why you need to when one is a citizen...


I think this rule only apply if the property you are planning to buy exceed a threshold. PR can get a loan and buy a house, no problem.

But of course it is not possible for a bankrupted person to be on the title.


----------



## aussiesteve (Mar 16, 2012)

Mish said:


> We didn't disagree with the immigration part we were just advising on the bankruptcy part to help you out, incase you were unaware as some don't realise until it is too late. I would not want to see anyone go through what my friend did.
> 
> Incase you are not aware. In Australia if you are not a citizen you need permission to buy property (your partner can not be on the title during bankruptcy period). Even as an Australian citizen if I bought property with my husband we need to apply for permission for him to buy property with me . Not sure why you need to when one is a citizen...


Only Citizens or PR can buy pre owned residential properties in Australia without approval from the foreign investment review board.
There is no restriction on the purchase of residential land or new residential properties.


----------



## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

aussiesteve said:


> Only Citizens or PR can buy pre owned residential properties in Australia without approval from the foreign investment review board.
> There is no restriction on the purchase of residential land or new residential properties.


Thanks for that . At least the bank was correct .... my husband is temporary resident not permanent. We are not wanting to buy new as the lot sizes are too small now. 450m2 or 350m2 some of them eeek.


----------



## aussiesteve (Mar 16, 2012)

Mish said:


> Thanks for that . At least the bank was correct .... my husband is temporary resident not permanent. We are not wanting to buy new as the lot sizes are too small now. 450m2 or 350m2 some of them eeek.


You shouldn't have had any problems Mish when the spouse is a Citizen it is usually just a rubber stamp job.
Right about the tiny blocks, i also hate the narrow twisty streets!


----------



## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

aussiesteve said:


> You shouldn't have had any problems Mish when the spouse is a Citizen it is usually just a rubber stamp job.
> Right about the tiny blocks, i also hate the narrow twisty streets!


No problems yet. I just asked for future ... I like to be prepared . I didn't bother about putting mine into his name too because I hate paying money for nothing and would have to pay stamp duty or transfer cost or whatever it is. I know there are fees involved so will just leave it in my maiden name only.


----------



## hime-sama (Jul 8, 2014)

I've already looked into it and the international finance review board thingy. My financial record is spotless anyway I've checked last week  I wish there was another way apart from bankruptcy but its literally his only option. Every payment arrangement we have tried to make gets refused. One of them wanted $1000 a month! No way we can afford that. That was only for one debt not all. I've researched everything to death and this is the best option for his situation unfortunately


----------



## hime-sama (Jul 8, 2014)

maggie-may24 said:


> I'm surprised he's able to declare bankruptcy if you own a home with no mortgage as I'd assume they'd take that asset into account. But I don't know much about bankruptcy.


nope it's in the uk and it's only in my name. it's nothing to do with him i've already checked. even if we get married in the next three years i can prove this was soley mine before marriage therefore it doesnt get taken into his bankrupt estate.


----------



## ampk (Sep 21, 2013)

You are correct about your house - it is yours. But if you sell and buy another here, any increase in value (stated not by you) book figure over the bankrupt period in about every case is coincided his profit too. In 5 years that can be a lot.

If were me I would make a deal with the ATO, then forget the rest. After they pay for the legal proceedings (if they do) produce the tax agreement and say it was tried to be sorted out on a payment and they were unreasonable, so then in front of the hearing state his terms or bankruptcy as the only options - at this stage they have spent a lot on fees and know getting $500 back in 6 months is better than nothing. They wont be happy and expect calls but that is how it happens. 

It happens often in my field, mostly to people that hire planes to charter companies - most get nothing, the lucky get average 12 cents in the dollar. Again immigration is not you problem here, just beware the ATO. Best luck and sorry for your situation.


----------



## hime-sama (Jul 8, 2014)

the ato can send you bankrupt anyway and have done with many people. I'll speak to his bankruptcy lawyer who has been dealing with this stuff for 16 years and see what she says about the ato coming back to get him after he's bankrupt.


----------



## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

hime-sama said:


> the ato can send you bankrupt anyway and have done with many people. I'll speak to his bankruptcy lawyer who has been dealing with this stuff for 16 years and see what she says about the ato coming back to get him after he's bankrupt.


Yes that is true they can do that, they can force the person into bankruptcy. I believe that is when people are still trading and have no assets to sell etc.

I actually heard of someone having a payment plan with the ATO of $10, not sure if was a week, fortnight or month though.

I think alot has to do with what he earns and if he acquires any assets during that time.

One thing I will mention is that I imagine because he is going bankrupt the ATO will probably be keeping an eye on him to make sure he is full filling his tax obligations.


----------



## hime-sama (Jul 8, 2014)

He will be I.will make sure of it haha he won't have debt for the past four years as . that is taken out he just hadn't lodged his group certs. Its a whole complicated mess that tbh apparently a hell of a lot of people get into she deals with minimum of four a week in exactly the same circumstances as his.


----------



## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

Wow that is sad so many are in the same situation. 

Are you saying he hasn't lodged his taxes for the last 4 years? If he hasn't do it ASAP. The ATO "may" charge a penalty on them for failing to lodge.

Also I will mention that just because you are PAYG does not mean you will have no tax to pay as sometimes because of Medicare levy and not enough tax being withheld you may need to pay additional tax but don't worry if that is the case maybe only a couple of hundred dollars. You won't know until you do it. Also don't forget bank interest ... the ATO gets a report about it from the bank. My ex forgot to declare his one year and got a letter from the ATO.


----------



## Zalzala69 (Jul 9, 2014)

Just i need a help witch type of visa can i apply am a technician but i need scholarship


----------



## CollegeGirl (Nov 10, 2012)

Zala - you should really start your own thread as this isn't related to the topic you're posting in, but what sort of documents are you looking for? Also, what is a "benin passport?"


----------



## hime-sama (Jul 8, 2014)

It all gets lodged during bankruptcy to bring everything up to date so he can basically start again. He hasn't ever had enough money in his account to accrue interest of more than about 50c tbh lol


----------



## Engaus (Nov 7, 2013)

Benin is a country collegegirl 

Zala, collegegirl is right, best to start a new thread. You will also need to provide a lot more information for anyone to offer assistance eg age, your skills etc


----------



## CollegeGirl (Nov 10, 2012)

Wow, that was dumb of me! Sorry. Thanks for straightening me out, Engaus.


----------



## hime-sama (Jul 8, 2014)

I found this about them reinstate tax debts  
Once a tax debt has been listen as a provable debt under the bankruptcy act it becomes Irrecoverable at law which means it cannot be reinstated. 

The law that states that is dated 2014...... must be a new one. I've screenshotted it but phone won't let me upload it here :/


Ps if I am allowed to I will link the whole thing here its on the ato website  its in a specific section... 48 onwards


----------



## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

That is interesting because when I did bankruptcy at uni it was bankruptcy act 1966.

Here is a page for you: https://www.afsa.gov.au/debtors/ban...gs-i-have-to-do-and-be-aware-of-when-bankrupt

Look at point 21. There is alot of interesting things.

The thing that I remember about law is that it can be interpreted different ways too and sometimes it is not black and white.


----------



## hime-sama (Jul 8, 2014)

He doesntThe law changed this year! New rule under section 48 dated 2014 PS LA 2011/17 - Debt relief (As at 3 July 2014)

He doesn't earn over the indexed amount ive already said that. And quite literally it kn there in black and white it is an irrecoverable debt once listed on a bankruptcy.


----------



## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

hime-sama said:


> He doesntThe law changed this year! New rule under section 48 dated 2014 PS LA 2011/17 - Debt relief (As at 3 July 2014)
> 
> He doesn't earn over the indexed amount ive already said that. And quite literally it kn there in black and white it is an irrecoverable debt once listed on a bankruptcy.


That is not a law. It is a practice statement issued by the ATO which is determined by law. All they did was update the previous practice statement based on the legislation.

Check out paragraph 49 which mentions that they may re-raise it if the circumstances change.


----------



## hime-sama (Jul 8, 2014)

Well even so its still legally binding amd states they can't touch him. It even says that at the top. This is for use of the public so they know where they stand


----------



## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

hime-sama said:


> Well even so its still legally binding amd states they can't touch him. It even says that at the top. This is for use of the public so they know where they stand


It can be withdrawn at any time.

But paragraph 49 states that if the circumstances change they may re-raise the debt.


----------



## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

It shows that legislation and practice statements are both not clear cut. Ring the ATO and ask them.

I know of someone who had theirs re-raised but they got a better job during the bankruptcy period, so their circumstances changed.


----------



## hime-sama (Jul 8, 2014)

I rang the bankruptcy lawyer: she said they can only re raise tax debts of companies and directors of companies not individual/sole traders. She's been dealing with this stuff for sixteen years day in day out. I didn't post on this forum to be hounded about bankruptcy anyway I asked if it would affect immigration not the legal ins and outs of it thats why I paid for a professional to deal with it.


----------



## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

That is good to know in your case. Not sure what happened in the case of the person I know.


----------



## ampk (Sep 21, 2013)

"Partner Visa going Bankrupt" the title you posted was Bankrupt not Immigration, 16 years is a long time most good agents in this field demand about $1,000 per hour of their time or more. 

I suggest you pay 2 hours of a Tax Lawyer specialist to get better advise - I believe your advice is marginal - don't forget they take your money regardless of what happens. And be happy for people that want to help you on what they know or FAR more than 16 years experience in on job knowing that the ATO never lose.

Maybe Ask Paul Hogan? I know others with many tax debts, some in the millions, the ATO is supported by the Government that needs and will need for long as much tax money as it can find. It is that simple!


----------



## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

ampk said:


> Maybe Ask Paul Hogan? I know others with many tax debts, some in the millions, the ATO is supported by the Government that needs and will need for long as much tax money as it can find. It is that simple!


That is very true! Also because they are government funded they could very well amend the bankruptcy act down the track. Especially if the government is in need of money.

Ampk are you an Accountant?


----------



## hime-sama (Jul 8, 2014)

Have you even read my original post???? I asked if it would affect his sponsorship of me nothing else. I have all the info I need from her with regards to his bankruptcy. Please just stop okay im asking you all politely just STOP


----------



## CollegeGirl (Nov 10, 2012)

Sound advice as usual, I'm sure, ampk. 

I'm sure the OP appreciates everyone's advice, but let's drop the bankruptcy issue now since OP has requested it. If anyone has any specific advice as related to immigration with a bankruptcy going on, I'm sure OP would be grateful. If not, let's just leave off. Thanks!


----------



## ampk (Sep 21, 2013)

Ok CG, here is a good read to the benefits of all of us here, it takes a while, but we end up the strongest group - sorry slightly of subject but not if fully understood.

Seems regardless 10 or 20 years later we, our group sort any or most problems.

http://www.immi.gov.au/pub-res/Documents/research/family-migration-contribution-january-2014.pdf


----------

