# Prospective Timeline for Australian PR/Citizenship



## xxxxxxxxxw1ndhawk (Nov 14, 2013)

Hi guys,

This is my first post here so I'll begin with introducing myself. I am an engineering (Bachelors, I.T.) graduate. I graduated just this year. I intend to pursue a masters in I.T. now.

I initially was considering 3 countries to pursue my further studies: USA, Canada and Australia. While pondering on this topic, I thought to myself: Why not simultaenously pursue a PR/citizenship while studying? After all, it is common knowledge that a new passport gives you multiple privileges.

After much research, I came to the conclusion that it is very hard to become a naturalized US Citizen, not to mention the tax laws of USA kind of suck. That left me with 2 options: Australia and Canada. Out of these 2, it seems that it is easier to obtain a citizenship in Australia, at least on paper.

I have been reading about Australian PR/citizenship a lot and figured out that the newly introduced subclass 485 visa is a great option for international students in Australia.

I am trying to create a prospective timeline from the day I enroll in an Australian University to the day I get my Australian Passport but however, I am having difficult constructing it. I am hoping that you guys can help me with it. Of course, I know that immigration rules keep changing and that nothing is certain with regards to acquiring a citizenship.

_*Timeline:*
Feb, 2014 - Start Masters in I.T. 2 year program.

Feb, 2016 - 
Achieve Masters in I.T. 
Apply for a subclass 485 visa. 
Apply for a subclass 189 visa (assumption of SkillSelect points: IELTS 20, Bachelor's Degree or equivalent 15, Australian Study Requirement 5, Age 30, *Total 70*)
12 months processing time for both visas.

Feb, 2017 - 
Get Australian Permanent Residency.

Feb, 2018 - 
Apply for Australian Citizenship after completing 12 month PR requirement.

June/July/Aug, 2018 - 
Get Australian Citizenship and Passport._

There are some queries that I have with regards to the above timeline:
1. Can you apply for a bridging visa when you have applied for permanent residency? If not, can I apply for both PR and subclass 485 at the same time?

2. I will be able to apply for a subclass 485 visa only in Feb, 2016 when I complete the 2 year Australian Study Requirement. The processing time for the visa is 12 months. So what do I do from Feb, 2016 to Feb, 2017? Am I eligible to work while the visa is being processed? Will employers hire me while I am on a bridging visa?

3. My migration agent in my home country raised a concern that even with the introduction of the 485 visa, it is hard for non-PR/citizens to get work in Australia. Is this true even for an in-demand occupation like I.T/computers?

4. Is my stipulated timeline correct or am I missing something?

Thanks a lot.


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## kttykat (Oct 30, 2012)

You need to talk to a migration agent. I am not sure about your case but I do know there are some conditions on citizenship that affect your 4 years, like if you were on a bridging visa for any part of it. 

Kttykat


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## GBP (Jun 1, 2013)

I think visas like 485 and 189 are subject to review and changes frequently. So, 2-3 years down the track, the requirements might be different from what it is now. 

I wouldn't start a study just for the sake of migration or PR in another country. And to answer your concern regarding finding work, yes, it is more difficult to find a job if you are not a PR/citizen.


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## xxxxxxxxxw1ndhawk (Nov 14, 2013)

Thanks for the replies @kttykat and @GBP



kttykat said:


> You need to talk to a migration agent. I am not sure about your case but I do know there are some conditions on citizenship that affect your 4 years, like if you were on a bridging visa for any part of it.
> 
> Kttykat


Are you sure about this? Where can I read more about this topic? The residence calculator seems quite simple asking for only 4 inputs: 'Permanent Residency Date', 'Lawful Residency Date', 'Intended Lodgement Date' and inputs regarding days outside of Australia. Take a look: 
www . ecom . immi . gov . au/citz/startIntervalCalc . do

Further, from the info I have gathered online it seems that time on temporary visas DOES count towards the residence requirement. Below a direct quote from an Australian Immigration website.

"In order to be eligible for Australian Citizenship, applicants must meet a number of residence requirements, including;

12 months as a permanent resident; and
Being lawfully resident in Australia for 4 years immediately prior to lodgement; and
Absences from Australia of no more than 1 year in the last 4 years and not more than 90 days in the 12 months immediately before applying.

Lawful residence does include time spent on temporary visas (i.e. Student, Working Holiday, Tourist, Bridging Visa) prior to grant or permanent residency."
Source: 
www . australianmigrations . com/visa_citizenship_rrt . htm



GBP said:


> I think visas like 485 and 189 are subject to review and changes frequently. So, 2-3 years down the track, the requirements might be different from what it is now.
> 
> I wouldn't start a study just for the sake of migration or PR in another country. And to answer your concern regarding finding work, yes, it is more difficult to find a job if you are not a PR/citizen.


Yes, I completely agree with you that starting a study just for the sake of PR is foolishness.

However, my primary purpose is to study. I'm just trying to combine it with migration (something done by many students). At this point, if I do want to combine it my only options are Canada and Australia.

According to current laws Australia seems to be a better option. Unfortunately I can only judge on current laws 

Also, any more insights into how hard it is for people on 485 visas to find work? I couldn't find too many topics regarding this on the forum.

You seem to be quite knowledgeable. Can you answer question 1. in the first post?

Thanks GBP


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## kttykat (Oct 30, 2012)

https://www.ecom.immi.gov.au/citz/startIntervalCalc.do

From the site:
Lawful residence means residence in Australia on a temporary or permanent visa.

If any of the following applied to you in the past 4 years, please telephone the Citizenship Information Line on 131 880 during business hours to discuss your circumstances.

You obtained an e-visa to replace an expired Resident Return Visa (RRV)
*You obtained a bridging visa of any type*
You lodged an onshore application for a permanent visa then travelled overseas on your temporary visa
You are a New Zealand citizen on a Special Category Visa (SCV)

Why don't you ring and ask.

Kttykat


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## xxxxxxxxxw1ndhawk (Nov 14, 2013)

kttykat said:


> From the site:
> Lawful residence means residence in Australia on a temporary or permanent visa.
> 
> If any of the following applied to you in the past 4 years, please telephone the Citizenship Information Line on 131 880 during business hours to discuss your circumstances.
> ...


Good point.

Checked around a bit online and found these 2 topics:
pomsinoz . com/forum/migration-issues/112391-residency-requirement-citizenship-bridging-visa
britishexpats . com/forum/showthread.php?t=757768

I'm sure there must be exceptions but time on the bridging visa generally seems to count.


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## CollegeGirl (Nov 10, 2012)

I think the confusion that this stems from is a result of the BVE. If you wind up on a Bridging Visa E, any time you spent in the country prior to that no longer counts toward your four years for citizenship purposes.


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## xxxxxxxxxw1ndhawk (Nov 14, 2013)

CollegeGirl said:


> I think the confusion that this stems from is a result of the BVE. If you wind up on a Bridging Visa E, any time you spent in the country prior to that no longer counts toward your four years for citizenship purposes.


Possibly, but if you apply for a PR onshore after completing the Aus study requirement you are automatically granted Bridging Visa *A* (not E).


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## kttykat (Oct 30, 2012)

I am kind of curious about this myself. 

Since I was in Australia legally on an ETA in August of 2012, left to go to the USA and marry, was in the USA for 3 months and returned again on an ETA for another 3 months from January and then left again for a few days to get my 309 and returned in April of this year with my 309. I wonder if I would start counting my 4 years from August 2012 or from April 2013. It makes about 8 months difference as to when I would be eligible to apply for citizenship. Therefore would it be August 2016 or April 2017 as an eligible date to apply? I had always assumed April 2017.

Kttykat


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## xxxxxxxxxw1ndhawk (Nov 14, 2013)

kttykat said:


> I am kind of curious about this myself.
> 
> Since I was in Australia legally on an ETA in August of 2012, left to go to the USA and marry, was in the USA for 3 months and returned again on an ETA for another 3 months from January and then left again for a few days to get my 309 and returned in April of this year with my 309. I wonder if I would start counting my 4 years from August 2012 or from April 2013. It makes about 8 months difference as to when I would be eligible to apply for citizenship. Therefore would it be August 2016 or April 2017 as an eligible date to apply? I had always assumed April 2017.
> 
> Kttykat


I don't know what at ETA visa is but I think that if they are counting tourist visas towards lawful residence then I guess Aug 2016 you should be eligible.

Of course, if you are already in Australia you might as well call em up and ask.


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## CollegeGirl (Nov 10, 2012)

Pretty sure it'd be August 2016. Try the citizenship calculator on their website, KK. 

I know, w1ndhawk that in your situation you would generally be put on a BVA. I was simply saying I think that's where the confusion surrounding the topic was coming from.  It's not an uncommon topic here because people often mistakenly think they can just, for example, quit their jobs if they're on a 457 and have applied for an 820. In reality, they often wind up on a BVE and can't count that time towards citizenship. I was thinking maybe that was where the idea that BVs don't count towards citizenship came from.


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## xxxxxxxxxw1ndhawk (Nov 14, 2013)

CollegeGirl said:


> Pretty sure it'd be August 2016. Try the citizenship calculator on their website, KK.
> 
> I know, w1ndhawk that in your situation you would generally be put on a BVA. I was simply saying I think that's where the confusion surrounding the topic was coming from.  It's not an uncommon topic here because people often mistakenly think they can just, for example, quit their jobs if they're on a 457 and have applied for an 820. In reality, they often wind up on a BVE and can't count that time towards citizenship. I was thinking maybe that was where the idea that BVs don't count towards citizenship came from.


Do you have any idea if you can work on a BVA? I can't find much info regarding that.

For example, suppose I complete the study requirement on Feb, 2016 and apply for a subclass 189 visa. I automatically go onto a BVA. Can I work during this time?


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## kttykat (Oct 30, 2012)

Pity I can't take it from Jan 2011, my first visit to Australia....

Kttykat


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## Maggie-May24 (Jul 24, 2011)

w1ndhawk said:


> Do you have any idea if you can work on a BVA? I can't find much info regarding that.
> 
> For example, suppose I complete the study requirement on Feb, 2016 and apply for a subclass 189 visa. I automatically go onto a BVA. Can I work during this time?


Yes, BVA includes full work rights.


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## CollegeGirl (Nov 10, 2012)

kttykat said:


> Pity I can't take it from Jan 2011, my first visit to Australia....
> 
> Kttykat


Ktty - how long, all up, have you been absent from Australia since Jan. 2011. If less than one year, you may, in fact, be able to count that. If more than a year, you may need to use the other date. There was a discussion on a thread on another forum about this and it was demonstrated that tourist visas do count towards this time, and that the key was not being absent from Australia for more than a year in the previous four. Of course, you do need to spend the last year as PR.


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## kttykat (Oct 30, 2012)

CollegeGirl said:


> Ktty - how long, all up, have you been absent from Australia since Jan. 2011. If less than one year, you may, in fact, be able to count that. If more than a year, you may need to use the other date. There was a discussion on a thread on another forum about this and it was demonstrated that tourist visas do count towards this time, and that the key was not being absent from Australia for more than a year in the previous four. Of course, you do need to spend the last year as PR.


Yeah, it would be more than a year  It really doesn't matter though, this kind of waiting is just an annoyance not a major life hurdle like it is for you guys....

Kttykat


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## xxxxxxxxxw1ndhawk (Nov 14, 2013)

Hey, 

Just checked the ACS news and updates shttp://www.acs.org.au/migration-skills-assessment/news-and-updatesection 

Apparently theres a new condition that you cant get a valid skill assessment unless you have 1 year of work experience or have completed the acs professional year? Wtf!!! Am i interpreting this right?


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## GBP (Jun 1, 2013)

Rules change frequently, I think it is not so meaningful for you to worry about it right now since you are not applying it yet.


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## xxxxxxxxxw1ndhawk (Nov 14, 2013)

GBP said:


> Rules change frequently, I think it is not so meaningful for you to worry about it right now since you are not applying it yet.


So basically these guys just introduce new rules to their whim and fancy?


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## Maggie-May24 (Jul 24, 2011)

I'm sure there's a bit more rationale behind it vs. whim and fancy, but yes new rules get introduced often with little or no notice. This includes fee changes, assessment processes, etc. There's really nothing we can do about it, so when making such long-term plans you should be prepared that things may change along the way.


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## GBP (Jun 1, 2013)

w1ndhawk said:


> So basically these guys just introduce new rules to their whim and fancy?


It is unfair to make such a statement. Things are changing all the time, so rules and requirements need to be adjusted to suit the current situation. Would you complain like this (i.e. "wtf") if the changes were in your favor?


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## xxxxxxxxxw1ndhawk (Nov 14, 2013)

GBP said:


> It is unfair to make such a statement. Things are changing all the time, so rules and requirements need to be adjusted to suit the current situation. Would you complain like this (i.e. "wtf") if the changes were in your favor?


Point taken.


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## nightfury (Jul 29, 2012)

Ignore this message. Was a cross post. Had to edit


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## nightfury (Jul 29, 2012)

w1ndhawk said:


> There are some queries that I have with regards to the above timeline:
> 1. Can you apply for a bridging visa when you have applied for permanent residency? If not, can I apply for both PR and subclass 485 at the same time?
> 
> 2. I will be able to apply for a subclass 485 visa only in Feb, 2016 when I complete the 2 year Australian Study Requirement. The processing time for the visa is 12 months. So what do I do from Feb, 2016 to Feb, 2017? Am I eligible to work while the visa is being processed? Will employers hire me while I am on a bridging visa?
> ...


Hello Friend

I can answer your questions from my experience,

1. As soon as you apply for a PR, you will get Bridging Visa A automatically till such time a decision is made on your visa application. You don't have to apply for a bridging visa separately. In a scenario where you want to travel when your visa in under process you have to apply for Bridging Visa B which will allow you to exit and enter Australia.

If you are eligible for PR then by all means apply for it. Why do you want to apply and pay for 485? Good thing about applying PR directly is that you will be eligible for Medicare and also can help your job applications.

2. Yes, you will have full working rights. No restrictions on location, hours or type of work you can do.

3. The occupation list keeps changing every time. So only time can answer this question.

4. Timeline is ok assuming your studies go well and you can clear IELTS on target.

If you have any questions please feel free to ask. Good luck with your plans.


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