# Kruddsters Killing Australians with Kindness to People Smuggling



## Wanderer (Jun 16, 2007)

The Australian Government has certainly sent a message to people smugglers and you really have to wonder just how much the Indonesians will be policing it from their end.
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We are a nation that would always pride itself on helping those in dire straits and the medical help afforded to the burnt vistims of the latest tragedy shows that but effectively the consumption of scarce and valuable medical resources will likely mean that people down the lsit somewhere will now be shunted further down to the extent that they may not get timely help.

That already happens with numbers of Australians dying each year because they have not been treated for serious illness quickly enough.

This the Rudd government in its less policing of borders and criticism of past policies will see more and more people smuggling attempts and there could even be further craziness of self harm if would be refugees see that as a way to get on to the Australian mainland rather than being taken to Christmas Island where the people on this boat would have been taken to.

Rudd missed turned around and came back earlier this week from an intended trip to Thailand because of unrest there and with his penchasnce for overseas travel and rediculous attempt to talk up being tough he should follow through and get on the phone to the Indonesian President and get over there to get commitment to nip this in the bud.

There have been reports of Indonesians openly discussing about boats intended for future trips and if they can be identified why not then have them confiscated or at least closely monitored in ports.

His performance seems to be to talk big and tough if with gutter language and achieve absolutely nothing.

Meanwhile we have the NT police talking up an investigation that could take months!, and you have to ask what the bloody hell fore, it has happened and there is enough expense already being accorded this fiasco so why just add to it?

You know who is going to be footing the millions in cost of all this and if you didn't, it'll be on the Australian taxpayer - thanks Kruddster!


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## mike (Jun 13, 2007)

I am in Indonesia so I have read a few reports on what Rudd has been saying on people smugglers.

I haven't read the full story on what happened with the Afghan refugees. 

All I can say is that is unlikely to be a high priority for the Immigration police or their immigration. If the refugees are bound for Australia, it's going to be off their radar. 

If I am wrong on this, please correct me. Indonesia is a poor country and they have few resources to police and protect their own people, let alone refugees from other countries.

I know we don't want to encourage refugees to arrive on Australian shores by fishing boats, but surely the lengths these people go to escape, they are obviously in dire straits.

I don't know but the whole throwing cash bonuses around kind of makes me think about how extremely lucky the average Australian is compared with its neighboring countries.


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## Wanderer (Jun 16, 2007)

He was mouthing off again Mike, referring to people smugglers as the scum of the earth and that they ought to rot in hell etc., had a rolled up bit of paper in his hand he was wacking into the other for emphasis, hardly a display of controlled composure you would like to see a PM display.

For sure we are a lucky country in general terms and Indonesia has many people living in poverty and merely existing, there being a short coverage on SBS just recently in their pre News travel section with Silvio and it showed these poor buggers living on the side of a Volcano in east Java and walking up and over into the crater amidst sulphurous fumes to gather Sulphur they take back to their base camp.
. Kawah Ijen, Java, Indonesia Photo Gallery by Fernando Peres Rodrigues at pbase.com
The heading there says thay can winn?, probably earn US$7/d and there's a truck shown in one of the photos whereas on the Doco, the poor blighters would load up with two sacks on a bamboo pole across the shoulders and be off 2500' and 20 km. down the mountain side with their sulphur once a week, apparently getting something like $1/50 kg. , so suppose correct figure could be somewhere in between.

Thoseguys with a shortened life span need helping and though Indonesia has its poor, there's also millions of them pretty well off if pics we see of Djkarta etc. are any guide and they do say Charity starts at home.

There's been many cases of police/military brutality ov er the years in Indonesia what with separatist movements and even situations where Christians have been slaughtered, homes fired etc. and police/military have stood by, probably happy enough in that they were of the same creed as those doing the carnage, so I reckon Indonesia has sufficient force if they want to use it but their culture/attitude seems to be one of let the problem go further and if some die in the process, why worry.

Meanwhile, Australia has always has a humanitarium side to immigration but it has been handled in a controlled way, well sort of for it can also get out of control and there are areas of Sydney and even Melbourne I'd be loathe to live anywhere near because of gangs culture.

Then OK, there is the problem Iraq has been, now just as bad if not getting worse in Afghanistan and the US, UN, Australia really need to ask themselves just what are we going to attempt to achieve there and how for you've even got POakistan now making agreements with Taliban on their side of the border, basically allowing them to run the area under Sharia law! - is it another Vietnam for the US?, and I reckon so, even more soi than Iraq and that mess is a long way from over for as the US scales down, just watch violence ramp up, and not just Shiites Vs Sunni but you've got Saddams Bathists biding their time as is Turkey for the moment re Kurds wanting autonomy in the north and using it as a base to get a Kurdistan including some of Turkey!

So Governments need a dose of reality with what they are doing there and as there was some massive people movements following WW2, they need to look mat what happens in the middle east but as ex WW2 movements were largely within Europe and then Jews going to Israel and being their own terrorists against the Brits and Palestinians, there is far more in common with Iraqis, Iranians, Pakistanis, Afghanis, Jordanians Saudis and all that part of the planet than what they will find in Australia.

Meanwhile, healthcare as just one of our resources may not seem to be a big deal at the moment to you, but put yourself into the shoes of someone aged 50 -100, someone having paid taxes here all their life or all the working part of it and you're lined up for surgery to address something that will only get worse with time, or be the relative of someone who has just died while on a trolley in a corridor because they could not be admitted, and then you see so much in way of resources being usurped, possibly because a government has scaled back their border surveillance, another report just out referring to federal police having warned the government there'd be an upsurge of people smuggling attempts because they had scaled back surveillance - and most of us probably were not even aware of that happening - been done on the quiet, apparently been made a customs role rather than using any navy boats.
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As a nation we'll be horrified at times by issues involving ethnic groups, the Sydney situation a couple of years back being one and then when Howard was being condemmed by many for his Pacific solution, be it an interim one that quelled enthusiasm of would be illegal arrivals, I have put to people the question of how many is too many?
Have never heard an answer.

Australia cannot resolve the planets overcrowding of some areas by just leaving the back door ajar.

Ashmore Reef is a bloody long way from Indonesia, a long long way further than Xmas Island, but you're right in that Indoinesians will not do anything, not because they can't but more that they just don't want to.

We need far stronger surveillance and policing up there and not sending messages as occured before Xmas that the Navy went on extended holidays.


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## mike (Jun 13, 2007)

Just as I said Indonesia isn't doing anything I read this:



> Indonesia has detained 70 illegal migrants from Afghanistan seeking to travel to Australia and is struggling to cope with an increased flow of migrants this year, officials said on Friday.


Indonesia detains Afghans trying to reach Australia | World | Reuters

They are also keeping 400 Rohingya boat people, who arrived off Aceh province in February. 400 extra people to feed when they already can't feed their own people is a problem. I am sure though they are getting some help from NGOs there.

In all of the rush to work with China, I think the government has let Indonesia go off the radar a bit.

Immigration isn't an easy problem to fix. Australia is struggling itself as you say with medical care and just having enough drinking water for the country.


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