# ENS 186 Direct Entry



## edithclara (Apr 10, 2013)

Am I correct in undetstanding that someone who has been in Australia for less than 2 years on a 428 visa can now be nominated for a ENS 186 Direct Entry without needing to complete 2 years employment with their sponsor. Thanks very much for your assistance.


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

Hi Edith -

Correct. Unless your visa has a No Further Stay condition attached (8503), if you can get a positive skills assessment from the skills assessor for your nominated occupation and you can evidence 3 years work experience closely related to that occupation, you can apply for the direct entry stream of the ENS visa assuming your employer qualifies to nominate you and chooses to do so.

Please advise if I can provide any further assistance -

Best,

Mark Northam


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## edithclara (Apr 10, 2013)

Thanks Mark, really appreciate your prompt reply. Our Minster of Religion's current visa (428-religious worker) expires 30/7/2013. 
1. Our religious organistion is aiming to submit our nomination for our Minister of Religion by 30/4/13. Assuming we submit a complete nomination application, what is a "reasonable" timeframe in which we might expect the nomination to be approved?
2. Is there any advantage for our Minister of Religion to submit his 186 application with our nomination?
3. From what I've read, as a Minister of Religion, he is exempt from the age, English language and Skills requirements
4. I understand that once he has submitted his 186 application he'll be issued with a bridging visa when his current visa expires.
5. is there any advice regarding the "salary" aspects for a Minister of Religion 186 nomination. In our case we pay for all his costs including a monthly allowance. This may not add up to a minimum wage. There is no award etc. In our tradition, a "holder of a religious office" is not our "employee", they do not have a "job". The religious organisation and its congregation take care of all of the material needs of the Minister of Religion, allowing the Minister of Religion to focus on spiritual needs of our congregation. 
Many questions - anything you can help with is greatly appreciated,
Edith


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

Hi Edithclara -

I can give you some general information about this - you can PM me here or respond with any specific questions and our website is in my signature.

1 - Hard to say - a few months to 6-8 months perhaps. We're seeing a wide variety of different processing times for these visas.

2 - Yes, may save some processing time.

3 - Correct, however you need to apply for each of these and give reasons why they should be approved - they are not "automatic".

4 - Correct - it would likely be a Bridging Visa A which includes full work rights. 

5 - DIAC gives case officers flexibility when assessing the compensation provided to a Minister of Religion, including the ability to consider his/her entire compensation - living accommodations, food, transportation, etc provided by the sponsor as compensation - this is not possible with other occupations but is specifically provided for for this occupation. Would suggest you put together a submission describing all of the different ways the applicant receives compensation or benefit, then assign a fair market value to each of those to put together a "value" of the compensation in total.

Please advise if I can assist any further -

Best,

Mark Northam


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## edithclara (Apr 10, 2013)

*186 Religious worker*

Thanks Mark, really appreciate your advice. Edith.


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## edithclara (Apr 10, 2013)

Hi Mark,
1. we will lodge the nomination and the nominee will lodge his 186 visa application before his current visa expires. But from what I've read it seems unlikely that the nominee's visa application will be decided before his current visa expires. What options are available if the 186 visa application is not granted whilst you're on a bridging visa. 
2. we need to request an age requirement exemption. Are these usually granted for Religious workers? 
Thanks very much Mark


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## edithclara (Apr 10, 2013)

*Ens 186*

All, any assistance is most appreciated.
Our religious organisation submitted an ENS Direct Entry nomination for our Minister of Religion on 30/10/13. We received an acknowledgement email. Since then we have heard nothing.

Our nominee submit has not lodged his visa application, as we thought it best to wait until the nomination is accepted. Perhaps this is holding up the progress of the nomination?

We've replied to the acknowledgement email numerous times, and as expected, have received an automated reply which at least provides a general update eg which applications (by date lodged) are now being allocated to case officers. Today's automated reply said they are allocating applications submitted in February 2014. It also says:
"Complete Applications - To reduce processing times for applications in the Employer Nomination Scheme (ENS) and Regional Sponsored Migration Scheme (RSMS) clients are requested to lodge complete nomination and visa applications which include all the necessary information for assessment, as prescribed within the document checklist relevant to the type of nomination, or visa application you are seeking to lodge with the department. "

It seems that this means our nomination is on hold until the visa application is lodged?

We've recently called the immigration national number, and got a recorded message saying they're too busy, call back.

What to do next?
Thanks very much!


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

Hi Edithclara -

Sorry to hear of the issue. Normally the nomination can be processed without the visa application - many people do this so as not to risk the visa application charge if the nomination has issues. Are you sure that DIBP has all of your current contact information? Would be happy to help as I can - please advise -

Best,

Mark Northam



edithclara said:


> All, any assistance is most appreciated.
> Our religious organisation submitted an ENS Direct Entry nomination for our Minister of Religion on 30/10/13. We received an acknowledgement email. Since then we have heard nothing.
> 
> Our nominee submit has not lodged his visa application, as we thought it best to wait until the nomination is accepted. Perhaps this is holding up the progress of the nomination?
> ...


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## kateygov (Mar 28, 2014)

Hi Edith, was fascinated to read your post as my husband is also a Minister of Religion and we are currently applying for Ens 186. Our application and nomination was lodged 13th November 2013 and we have submitted medical etc. We were assigned a case officer over two weeks ago but not heard anything since. The diocese are dealing with a migration lawyer. I wonder if minister of Religion is not a priority as some people have had visas completed in around 10weeks. I wish your minister well with the application, I do think not hearing anything really is a very hard part of this whole process.


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## edithclara (Apr 10, 2013)

*ENS 186 Minster of Religion*

Thanks Mark.
Yes, one reason the visa application was not submitted was the risk of losing the visa fee if the nomination was not granted. Have since be told that you have 28 days to withdraw the visa application (and are refunded the fee) if the nomination is not successful. But I don't always believe what I'm told over the phone with DIBP as I have in the past been received different answers to the same question from different people when I've called.

I've re-checked our contact details - all OK. And they can find us easily as we are already sponsoring Ministers of Religion on 401 visas. If fact the 186 nominee has been in Australia since August 2011 on a 428 and now 401 visa.

Would appreciate ANY help - just to know that this hasn't slipped through the cracks, which happened once before with a 401 visa (the case officer thought they'd emailed a request and forms to have medicals completed and later discovered she'd hadn't). Obviously they're very busy, but it seems I have no way of finding out where we are with it.

How can you help? Eg If I gave you the file number etc, would you be able to check the status?

The visa application will be submitted in the next month or so - the applicant has all his police clearances, medical done June 2013 for his 401 included checks for a PR visa, so all going well.....



MarkNortham said:


> Hi Edithclara -
> 
> Sorry to hear of the issue. Normally the nomination can be processed without the visa application - many people do this so as not to risk the visa application charge if the nomination has issues. Are you sure that DIBP has all of your current contact information? Would be happy to help as I can - please advise -
> 
> ...


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## edithclara (Apr 10, 2013)

*ENS 186 Minister of Religion*

Hi Katygov,
Thanks for sharing your timeline so far. 
At least I know that others who lodged around the same time as we did have only recently been assigned a case officer. Given the automated replies we've received, it does seem that it took longer than stated for you to have a case officer assigned. Each month since we lodged the nomination I've emailed just to get the automated reply which says where they are with assigning case officers. 
Although our Minister of Religion has been in Australia since August 2011, he is from a high risk country (India), so this could also cause us some delay. Here's hoping for both of us!



kateygov said:


> Hi Edith, was fascinated to read your post as my husband is also a Minister of Religion and we are currently applying for Ens 186. Our application and nomination was lodged 13th November 2013 and we have submitted medical etc. We were assigned a case officer over two weeks ago but not heard anything since. The diocese are dealing with a migration lawyer. I wonder if minister of Religion is not a priority as some people have had visas completed in around 10weeks. I wish your minister well with the application, I do think not hearing anything really is a very hard part of this whole process.


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

Hi Edithclara -

Sounds like you've done everything exactly right - well done! As an agent, I don't have access to DIBP systems so I wouldn't be able to check on things - was mainly interested to see if you had lodged everything correctly which it sounds like you have. Would suggest you wait another 4-6 weeks and see what happens - you might also check in with DIBP to ask them if they need any further information or documents to progress the case. Feel free to contact me if I can do anything on this end -

Hope this helps -

Best,

Mark Northam



edithclara said:


> Thanks Mark.
> Yes, one reason the visa application was not submitted was the risk of losing the visa fee if the nomination was not granted. Have since be told that you have 28 days to withdraw the visa application (and are refunded the fee) if the nomination is not successful. But I don't always believe what I'm told over the phone with DIBP as I have in the past been received different answers to the same question from different people when I've called.
> 
> I've re-checked our contact details - all OK. And they can find us easily as we are already sponsoring Ministers of Religion on 401 visas. If fact the 186 nominee has been in Australia since August 2011 on a 428 and now 401 visa.
> ...


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## edithclara (Apr 10, 2013)

*ENS 186 Minister of Religion*

Thanks Mark.

1. I decided to call DIPB while I was re-checking our applicant's form 80 (3rd version of form since we started). 
Didn't expect to get through, but after about 25 minutes in the queue actually spoke to a person! Previous times I've called around 4pm - maybe they turn the "we're too busy" message on at 4pm (they say the phone line is open until 4.30pm). They said that the processing standard time is 6 months. Our acknowledgement date was 25/10/13, not 30/10/13. She couldn't (wouldn't? - I'm not the listed contact person) tell me much, but did say that even when the application is allocated to a case office you won't necessarily get an email telling you that the application has progressed. She told me to reply to the acknowledgement email, add URGENT to the subject and say that it's just over the 6 months processing time, could they please provide an update.

Can our organisation add another contact person to our organisation's Immiaccount?

2. 186 visa applicant checklist
Is there actually a visa applicant checklist to refer to before you start the online visa application process?

Whenever I click on the link it just takes me to the ImmiAccount login screen. Would be very helpful to know the complete list of possible documents they may need. I also found this annoying when doing the nomination.

3. Exemptions
Our Minister of Religion is over 50, so he'll request exemption from the Age requirement (his birth certificate and passport will suffice to prove his age?) and the English requirement.

He is very well qualified, but if he doesn't request a Skills exemption as well, I assume they'll want a Skills Assessment. So I guess it'll be easier just to ask for the skills exemption as well. Does that seem reasonable?

4. the dreaded Form 80 - address history. 
Have read lots of the forum about the form eg address history - although our nominee is a refugee, he's not applying as a refugee, so only 10 years is required. I'm trying to come up with a guideline about to him decide what to include/not include. Eg During a 1 month holiday, you may stay in 8 or so places for a few days at a time. Similarly if you stayed with friends in Australia for a week or so. 
Do you "live" there at these hotels/addresses? 
Do you think all these short holiday addresses are what DIBP want?

5. Form 80 - family details
I'm helping another applicant (401) who lodged his 1401 on 22/4/14 (his 428 expires 3/5/14 and we wanted to make sure he got his bridging visa), and is now finalising his form 80 - he doesn't know the birthdates for his father and 2 (all deceased). He only knows the year in which his mother (deceased) and 2 other siblings (still living) were born. The living family members live in quite a remote part of India, I don't think they even have a phone. Culturally, they don't place any emphasis on the birth day/month, only the year (eg year of the dog, their age is determined by the lunar new year!). 
Should he just write the above and attach to form 80? 

Any advice you can provide is most appreciated,
Edith


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## edithclara (Apr 10, 2013)

*ENS 186 - Minister of Religion*

Happy days. After following the advice provided by Immigration, we emailed Immigration around 11.20am 30/4/14 and today around 12.15pm, we received notification that our nomination had been approved. I think the advice to mention in our email that it had been just over 6 months since we had lodged the nomination was the trigger. Immigration said that the processing standard is 6 months, so being over the 6 months may have expedited our nomination. Now for the actual visa application.


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## kateygov (Mar 28, 2014)

Hope all goes well for the visa application and it all goes smoothly. We are still waiting to hear anything but hopefully soon!! The waiting really is the hardest part!!!


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## palak (May 6, 2014)

*palak*

Hi Mark

AS per ENS scheme it saying that if you have study more than 5 year in diploma/Degree where instruction is in english. you would get IELTS expemetion. What actually do they mean by and what proof they need.

I did Diploma engineering 3 years and Bachelor of enginnering again 3 year from India. All my marksheet issued by university is in english. would it be enough to get the IELTS exemption if not what specific document immigration will askto get exemption.

Regards
Palak


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

Hi Palak -

Here's more info: SkillSelect - Functional English

Generally a transcript that indicates the language of instruction was English is sufficient, however if that is not specifically indicated on the transcript, you may also need to include some other evidence that the school's courses (at least the ones you took) were given in English - this might be a letter from the school, even a school catalog or some official school document that states that the language of instruction is English - whatever is appropriate/available from your school.

Hope this helps -

Best,

Mark Northam


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## edithclara (Apr 10, 2013)

*Minister of Religion exemptions*

Hi Mark,
Re #3 - skill, age, English language requirements exemptions. 
The checklist (Employer Nomination Scheme (subclass 186)) says 
"• If you are exempt from the skill requirement, you must provide evidence that one of the following applies to you:
o	You are a minister of religion who is going to work for a religious institution."

Do you think it is sufficient to provide a letter referring to other documents that have been uploaded that are evidence that the applicant is a Minister of Religion and that they are going to work for a religious institution (the nomination has been granted).

Thanks,
Edith



MarkNortham said:


> Hi Edithclara -
> 
> I can give you some general information about this - you can PM me here or respond with any specific questions and our website is in my signature.
> 
> ...


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

Hi Edith -

Yes - that should suffice - important to establish both things - your credentials as a minister of religion, and the nomination occupation being a minister of religion working at a religious institution.

Hope this helps -

Best,

Mark Northam



edithclara said:


> Hi Mark,
> Re #3 - skill, age, English language requirements exemptions.
> The checklist (Employer Nomination Scheme (subclass 186)) says
> "• If you are exempt from the skill requirement, you must provide evidence that one of the following applies to you:
> ...


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## edithclara (Apr 10, 2013)

Thanks Mark - will do. There are other valid reasons for the exemptions which can be included in the letter.
Best regards,
Editm


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

Hi Edith -

Sounds good, but do make sure you have the exact language from the Migration Regulations 1994 for the exemption(s) you are seeking to meet and make sure you show evidence that you meet the specific requirements - essentially the only "valid reasons" are those which meet the regulations.

Hope this helps -

Best,

Mark Northam


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## edithclara (Apr 10, 2013)

Thanks Mar,
I recall reading something on the website like "it is expected that the required evidence will have already been provided in documents required for the nomination and visa application". I took this to mean that nothing else was required. 
But the online application lists "Age Exemption", "Skills Exemption" and English Language Exemption" as documents that maybe required. 
Following your suggestion above, for the English language exemption, would it be sufficient to reference/quote this Migration Regulations 1994 - Specification of Classes of Persons (Exempt from the English Language Criteria) - IMMI 12/059. Or are there other "words" in the legislation that I should use. Any links you can point meto would be appreciated.
Regards,
Edith


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

Hi Edith -

Good job - that's the legislative instrument to quote for the 186 English language exemption - if you are claiming any other exemptions, I'd referebce the appropriate instruments.

Best,

Mark Northam


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## edithclara (Apr 10, 2013)

Thanks - so easy with Google. 
1. I will also quote the Migration Act definitions of:
- Minister of Religion and ANZSCO 272211 is specified 
- Religious Institution 

2. Do you have much experience with applicants providing police clearances from India? The police clearance provided is dated 18/12/12. Despite a friend asking to apply for a new PCC, and calling the authorities directly, the authorities in India say you must apply in person. Indian consulate website says sometimes you can apply through them but it's up to the local authorities in India. Applicant has been in Australia since that police clearance was obtained, returning only once to India for 1 month, staying in a Buddhist monastery and attending Dalai Lama teachings. He doesn't want to go back just to get a new PCC - expensive, no-one to take his place at his religious institution. Do you think it's likely they'll waive the need for a new India PCC?

3. As at 30/7/14, Immigration said they're currently allocating applications lodged May and early June. I suspect May is for ENS and early June is for RSMS applications. So, should be allocated in 4-6 weeks (ENS lodged 12/6). 
As always, any advice is appreciated.


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## edithclara (Apr 10, 2013)

Hi Mark,
Just found a 186-applicant-checklist.pdf dated October 2013 which for each of the exemptions says: "For applicants who are applying for an ENS visa through the Direct Entry stream and are seeking exemption from the skill requirement, it is anticipated that evidence will have been provided elsewhere in the visa or nomination applications that shows they are:
• a Minister of Religion who is going to work for a religious institution; or"

It's the same wording for the age and English language requirement exemptions. 
That's why I didn't realise you had to specifically request each exemption after you'd ticked the appropriate boxes in the on-line application. But, I can no longer find this checklist on the Immigration website.

I suppose if they want more paperwork.....

Regards,
Edith



edithclara said:


> Thanks Mar,
> I recall reading something on the website like "it is expected that the required evidence will have already been provided in documents required for the nomination and visa application". I took this to mean that nothing else was required.
> But the online application lists "Age Exemption", "Skills Exemption" and English Language Exemption" as documents that maybe required.
> Following your suggestion above, for the English language exemption, would it be sufficient to reference/quote this Migration Regulations 1994 - Specification of Classes of Persons (Exempt from the English Language Criteria) - IMMI 12/059. Or are there other "words" in the legislation that I should use. Any links you can point meto would be appreciated.
> ...


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## edithclara (Apr 10, 2013)

Hi Mark,
Just to let you know that our employee was granted his 186 visa on 21/10/14. A very happy new permanent resident.
Thank you for all your assistance in both the nomination and visa application steps.
You've been so generous with your advice at what can be a very frustrating process for many.
FYI, on 29/8/14 his CO contacted me to request new health checks (his health checks were completed 26/7/13 for his 401 visa, showed inactive TB), a new Australia PCC (obtained in 1 day) and a new India PCC (still waiting to hear whether his pre-approval is successful). After around 5 weeks (numerous phone calls to VFS) of waiting for the outcome of his India PCC pre-checking, on the advice of DIBP, on 16/10/14 I wrote to his Team saying he was "unable" to satisfy their request for the new India PCC. In this letter I gave a detailed timeline of his efforts-emails, phone calls etc. I had written sch a letter 2 weeks before, but had not used the words "unable to satisfy your request for a new India PCC", I had asked them to reconsider the need for a new India PCC. I thought they may ask for a stat dec (this happened a few years ago with another employee who couldn't get a China PCC). Much to my surprise, I received his grant notification on 21/10/14. I believe if he'd re-done his health checks and submitted PCCs which were still valid at the time of his application being allocated to a CO, he would have been granted his visa in early September, around 3 months after lodging. Our employee is a Tibetan refugee, has no citizenship, so it will be wonderful when he can apply for citizenship next year.
Again, thanks so much for your assistance.


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

Hi Edithclara -

Thanks for the kind words and excellent news - congratulations on getting the 186 visa granted - a testimonial to your hard work and perseverance!

Best,

Mark Northam



edithclara said:


> Hi Mark,
> Just to let you know that our employee was granted his 186 visa on 21/10/14. A very happy new permanent resident.
> Thank you for all your assistance in both the nomination and visa application steps.
> You've been so generous with your advice at what can be a very frustrating process for many.
> ...


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## Tinkerbell23 (Mar 5, 2015)

Hi Mark,

After reading this I'm confused. I hold a 457 visa and have been working for the same company for more than 2 years now. My employer has already lodge the Nomination for me to apply to the 186 PR.

Should I complete the field of:
* Direct Entry Stream
* Transition Stream
* Agreement Stream?

I was going to apply to the Transition Stream... however now I'm not sure about it.

Thank you very much for your response


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## MarkNortham (Dec 19, 2012)

Hi -

Transition stream is the one where you have worked for the nominating employer on a 457 in the same occupation for 2 years and that company now wants to nominate you for 186 PR visa. Note English requirements (IELTS 5 on each band or more, or equivalent test). Check DIBP site for full requirements for the 186 visa TRT stream if you're not using an agent.

Hope this helps -

Best,

Mark Northam



Tinkerbell23 said:


> Hi Mark,
> 
> After reading this I'm confused. I hold a 457 visa and have been working for the same company for more than 2 years now. My employer has already lodge the Nomination for me to apply to the 186 PR.
> 
> ...


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## jfperez05 (Mar 10, 2017)

Hi there..

Hope this is the correct forum to post my query regarding ENS 186 DE stream:

My wife has been assessed as positive by VETASSESS under the occupation she have nominated. However, in the outcome letter of the assessment authority, the numbers of years assessed as positive for Point Test Advice is only 1.8 years out of the 5 yrs experience we claimed in the application. The assessment authority used 3 yrs of employment post-qualification to calculate the qualifying period required to meet the skill level of the nominated occupation.

One of the requirements for the ENS 186 DE stream visa applicant specifies the applicant need a satisfactory skills assessment from an Australian assessing authority which is specified for the nominated occupation and have at least 3 years of post-qualification work experience in the nominated occupation.

Taking into account that the ENS 186 Visa is not a Point Test based visa, will any three years work experience post-qualification satisfy this requirement as a visa applicant for ENS 186 Direct Entry stream? Or will the Department take into account/consideration the Points Test Advice given by Vetassess in the outcome letter of the skills assessment for the work experience?

Appreciate your time reading and helping me with my question.


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