# Fraudulent Visa Application



## Astrho1 (Apr 16, 2016)

This is an account of my partner’s visa application which I now believe to be fraudulent. I am now concerned that someone could be granted the privilege of becoming a permanent resident of Australia despite committing fraud and lying to Immigration authorities both overseas and in Australia. I have a substantial amount of documentary evidence that demonstrates that this person intended to deceive all parties before her arrival in Australia and that the lies and deception were for the sole purpose of attaining permanent Australian residency. 

I believe that if my wife was granted permanent residency it would be an injustice to all those that do the right thing and seek to enter Australia via the proper channels and processes and an insult to those that risk their life on the ocean whilst fleeing genuine persecution and end up in off-shore detention centres. 

I first met my wife in Jakarta in early 2011 and we appeared to be very compatible. We met several times during the year and in September 2011 we had an Indonesian wedding ceremony. In February 2012, my partner arrived in Australia under a Prospective Marriage Visa. We were subsequently married in September 2012. Throughout this time I always considered our relationship was genuine. However, shortly after our wedding I discovered an extra phone that my wife had hidden which contained numerous text messages to multiple men. I found that my wife had at least two affairs with other men throughout 2012. 

At that time, I had wanted to end the relationship however my wife fell pregnant and I decided to give my wife another chance so that we could raise our child together. I now firmly believe that my wife fell pregnant purely so that I would not end our relationship and that once the baby was born, she believed that her permanent residency in Australia was secure. 

Some time later I managed to access my wife’s email account which provided further information and demonstrated the level of lies, deception and betrayal towards me. I found that just 2 months after our Indonesian wedding ceremony my wife had made arrangements to meet up with another Australian in Thailand and they posed as a married couple in a resort while they were there. My wife immediately resumed the affair as soon as she landed in Australia and commenced a further ongoing affair with another man later that year. Both of those affairs continued until I discovered them.

My wife had stated to several men in those emails that she was just waiting to have her Permanent Residency ("PR") granted. On her first full day in Australia my wife stated that she was not happy in the situation that she was now in (ie. living with me) and that she had a long wait before getting her PR. On another occasion three weeks before our wedding my wife stated that she wanted to “give me a bad impression of herself so that I would divorce her”. 

In the two and a half years since my son was born, my wife had said to me on many occasions that we should send him to her parents in Jakarta so that they could look after him. I have of course stated repeatedly that there is no way that I could allow that to happen. While my wife claims to love our son and states that she was only saying in jest that we should send him away, I believe that my wife was serious as she has said that she would want him to learn the Indonesian culture and religion before living in Australia. I further believe that she lacks attachment with any of her children. My wife's two older boys were also looked after by my wife's parents in Indonesia for most of the last 4 years while my wife has been in Australia. 

My wife returned to Indonesia twice in 2015. In March of that year my wife rekindled a relationship with an earlier boyfriend. In October 2015, I learnt that she had had another affair with an Indonesian man while she was home. I sent my wife a text message stating that I could not believe that she was again having affairs with other men with knowing how close we came to breaking up previously. My wife replied that she was sorry and cited an unbelievable excuse being that I did not follow her religion (her excuse is even less valid as her first affairs were with men that also did not follow her religion). 

Over the next few weeks, I learnt more of my wife's latest affairs and in one conversation she said to one man that "she has been thinking over and over again that once she gains her permanent residency, she will bring him out under her PR". I then decided that I would definitely end our relationship. 

However, before I informed my wife of my decision, I had to make sure that she would not attempt to take my son out of Australia. I then made an application to the Federal Circuit Court for a Parenting Order so that I could have my son placed on the Airport Watchlist which would prevent him from going overseas. I am also seeking sole custody of our son.

Once I knew that my son could not be taken out of Australia, I informed my wife during the evening of Christmas Day 2015 that I was terminating our relationship as she had proven once again how deceitful, unfaithful and untrustworthy she was. I said to her that I had given her more chances than she deserved to prove to me that her feelings towards me were genuine however she continually proved the opposite. 

I have now informed Immigration that I have withdrawn my sponsorship of my wife's visa. At this stage, she still has only a temporary visa as the next stage of the visa process was delayed while we sought to have her two older boys included in the visa application.

I understand that one of the conditions that could allow her to stay in Australia is being the parent of a child where there is a joint custody arrangement. As I have stated previously, I do not believe my wife truly has any attachment or wish to provide any ongoing care of our son. I further believe that this condition of having a child in Australia and being granted a visa solely on that basis would further undermine the visa approval process and open it up to widespread abuse. 

I have now also written to the Minister and Shadow Minister of Border Protection alerting them to this case as I am concerned that as time goes on Immigration will let things slide and grant my wife PR regardless of the information that I have provided.

My wife has deliberately lied and deceived everyone, including myself, everyone I know and Australian Immigration that she was in a genuine relationship with me. My wife’s sole purpose was to obtain permanent entry into Australia and she was prepared to act the part and do whatever she had to do to obtain that goal. It would therefore be a mistake if Immigration believe my wife if she claims that her relationship with me was genuine. 

I have been devastated by my wife’s actions as I did actually love this woman and now I am frustrated by not knowing what or when Immigration will do something as they will now tell me nothing. I am angry that my wife could be rewarded with permanent residency despite all that she has done. I would appreciate any ideas on how I can continue to campaign so that her plan can be thwarted.


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## 218417 (Nov 6, 2015)

Sorry to hear about your devastating position - consider seeking advice from a migration agent and lawyer.
I can say try not to act/seem vindictive in this case, as it may undermine your concern for her not deserving PR and just look like you're seeking revenge about a relationship break down.
As long as you learn the proper approaches to this situation, and give DIBP all the information you can about the fact that she used you and misled both you and the Australian government to get PR rather than your relationship just falling through, then DIBP should act accordingly. However, the child in the situation makes it more difficult than most of us average forum users can give advice for, but there are some great migration agents on here that will be able to help.

Mostly I'm just posting to wish you good luck! It must be such a heartbreaking position to be in, especially with a child involved.


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## Astrho1 (Apr 16, 2016)

Hi Kahmilah, thank you for replying to my post and your best wishes. It has been a very distressing situation for me especially as I had totally misjudged her character. I think that she has been so completely immoral to just use someone for her own selfish purposes with no concern for what that would do to me. Unfortunately, it is now complicated with our son being involved. However I just think it is very unfair if she is granted PR on that basis only. What is the point of proving a genuine relationship if all you need to do is quickly get pregnant when you arrive?

I have given immigration quite a bit of information on the matter and hopefully it is sufficient for them to decide that her application cannot proceed. I suppose I could be considered as someone just seeking revenge for a broken relationship however her plan was premeditated and her comments regarding attaining PR were consistent and ongoing. Again I think it would be very unfair for everyone doing the right thing if she was to get away with it.


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## ampk (Sep 21, 2013)

Beware the abusive relationship claim she will put forward next. You are not the first.

Suggest get DNA on your child from what you have said.

Good luck


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## Astrho1 (Apr 16, 2016)

Hi Ampk, thank you. The DNA test did cross my mind when she was pregnant. I subsequently did the test the first opportunity that I had and he is definitely mine. The other issue I have tried to pre-empt with Immigration. I am a Child Protection Caseworker and I just don't do abuse. I have not even raised my voice to her despite all the things that she has done. I wouldn't be surprised if she tried to play that card however she has got nothing to go on. 

My former wife and I also adopted a child from overseas and I have numerous reports from social workers and psychologists that were obtained during the assessment process that were glowing in their assessment of our parenting of our older children. I have included all that information in an affidavit to the Family Court that I hope will reject any possible claim of domestic violence.


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## chicken999 (May 2, 2013)

I'm very sorry this happened to you and thank you for sharing your story to warn others.

Unfortunately this is a common story amongst certain nationalities. The exact same thing happened to my friend who married a Nigerian man. She threw him out of the house only 5 months after he arrived in the country because of his scamming and cheating. He quickly forms relationships with several women and he rushed and even paid for the divorce. Of course my friend withdrew her sponsorship and he was given 28 days to leave. He appealed and because of the length of time before the hearing he was abLe to marry the first of his other girlfriends to get pregnant. We tried to warn her but she wouldn't listen. Even the other gfs tried. She had the baby and went to the appeal hearing with him and of course our stupid government gave him pr and he is still here today but of course left the second wife soon after she had a second baby .

This is known amongst certain nationalities to be a sure fire way to stay in the country. I have read similar stories on here from other forum members.

So I'm sorry to say it's likely she will be able to stay - but they won't tell you anything as you have no rights once u withdraw sponsorship.

It's outrageous that u are not allowed to speak at the hearing.

Please other forum members if you catch your spouse cheating on you before the visa process is complete take it that they do not love u and are with you for a visa only. Stop the process immediately and do not get pregnant if they have cheated.

People like this make it very hard on the rest of us and we should all fight to stop fraud like this occurring in any way we can even if it's just sharing your story

Sent from my iPad using Australia


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## Astrho1 (Apr 16, 2016)

Hi Chicken999,
Thank you also for your reply and comments. I think it is extremely frustrating that Immigration will tell you nothing after withdrawing the sponsorship. Who else would know the situation better than the partner?

I am trying to do everything that I can but I tend to agree with you that she will be allowed to stay. We are back in the Family Court on 26 April and I am hoping to get full custody of my son. I have included in my Affidavit a diary of the last month or so which shows that I am already providing his primary care. I have also included a text message that she sent to me just before I confronted her which said "this is mummy's boy who is going to be looked after by his grand mum in Indo". It is just an example of what she has continually said to me over the last couple of years. If I can get full custody maybe Immigration will be less likely to allow her to stay.


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## Astrho1 (Apr 16, 2016)

I will also add that my wife has a new boyfriend and I think she is working on him so that he will offer himself as her new sponsor. I am not sure if that is possible but I think that is her intention.


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## DonaldDuck (Apr 19, 2016)

Astrho1 said:


> This is an account of my partner's visa application which I now believe to be fraudulent. I am now concerned that someone could be granted the privilege of becoming a permanent resident of Australia despite committing fraud and lying to Immigration authorities both overseas and in Australia. I have a substantial amount of documentary evidence that demonstrates that this person intended to deceive all parties before her arrival in Australia and that the lies and deception were for the sole purpose of attaining permanent Australian residency.
> 
> I believe that if my wife was granted permanent residency it would be an injustice to all those that do the right thing and seek to enter Australia via the proper channels and processes and an insult to those that risk their life on the ocean whilst fleeing genuine persecution and end up in off-shore detention centres.
> 
> ...


this is first time I join this forum after really read your touching story. I feel deeply sorry for you .. She is cheater and it is illness and won't stop her whatever true or not true your story because I only hear from your side.

I am Indo too but I am independent and I met my partner nearly 3 years ago, he was my client. And I paid my own flight ticket & visa. I understand as sharing couples! So again not all Indo or Asian like your wife, I know one of my friend is cheater too and won't stop her being cheater, she is just slut, sorry bit harsh, I just don't respect girl using kids to get money from man as bite, this is happening every where, I feel sad for you. I am too scare getting marry too now hehe

My advice : call DIAC by her passport number, bday, TRN number, ID application/ visa granted. Tell the truth story, or email them write on subject "the case, her name, TRN, App Number". If you didn't receive any reply within 2 days, re-send the email or call them with prepare her name, passport name, TRN, app number visa.
They will easy hold proccessing visa, if your child born in Australia means he is Australian, if your wife never declare any birth certificate in Indo means still safe, remain Indo kids possible have 2 nationality but remain until 17yo or 18yo they need choose one nationality only.

If your wife visa canceled, remain she need get out to Australia within 28days, WITH or WITHOUT kids, so make sure you will full custody and prepare all evidence.

I don't know you, I don't know if the story is not false, but hope all the best for you. This is just make Indonesian bad name as personality I am Indonesian and I am independent. If something happen I can afford my flight ticket back to Indo and I have property & land invest in my country. So again .. I coming to Australia not for chasing Australian man money. My partner just genuine such greats man .. We love each others.


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## chicken999 (May 2, 2013)

Astrho1 said:


> Hi Chicken999, Thank you also for your reply and comments. I think it is extremely frustrating that Immigration will tell you nothing after withdrawing the sponsorship. Who else would know the situation better than the partner? I am trying to do everything that I can but I tend to agree with you that she will be allowed to stay. We are back in the Family Court on 26 April and I am hoping to get full custody of my son. I have included in my Affidavit a diary of the last month or so which shows that I am already providing his primary care. I have also included a text message that she sent to me just before I confronted her which said "this is mummy's boy who is going to be looked after by his grand mum in Indo". It is just an example of what she has continually said to me over the last couple of years. If I can get full custody maybe Immigration will be less likely to allow her to stay.


I agree. The system needs to change so u can give evidence of fraud at hearing.

Yes good luck at court I truly hope u win and this counts in your favour. If u can get her booted out of the country it's a win for all genuine couples

Sent from my iPad using Australia


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## Astrho1 (Apr 16, 2016)

Hi DonaldDuck,
Thank you for your sympathy. Unfortunately, everything that I have said is true. as I have previously mentioned I have a large amount of documentary evidence including many text messages and emails that my wife had sent to and received from numerous men. I also have extensive messages sent between my wife and I as we have discussed her affairs. The evidence was too great for her to deny them and she could only apologise and say they were a mistake. The first time this tactic of hers worked and I gave her another chance. In hindsight, I was a fool for wanting to believe her.

I have now sent three emails to Immigration whereby I have presented them with all of the Visa details and most of this evidence. The only response from Immigration is an automatic email stating that it has been received followed by another email thanking me for the information however they will not inform me of any decision now that I have withdrawn sponsorship. I know that she was given 28 days to respond to my initial email however it is now well past that time and nothing seems to be happening.

I think the most damning evidence that I have provided Immigration is the fact that she had her first affair before she even arrived in Australia and on her first day of arrival stating that she has to put up with the situation that she is in for a long time before being granted PR. I have no idea why she would say those things. We seemed to get on well and she could have had a very comfortable life here. I am a family man and I don't drink, smoke or gamble. I thought she was happy so it was a complete shock when I found out what was going on.

Since she arrived in Australia we befriended many Indonesian people and we would regularly get together with them. I found most of the Indonesian people very friendly and I do not think badly of them because of my bad experience. I am just wondering how I managed to totally misjudge her character. Unfortunately, I managed to pick the bad apple!


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## Astrho1 (Apr 16, 2016)

chicken999 said:


> I agree. The system needs to change so u can give evidence of fraud at hearing.
> 
> Yes good luck at court I truly hope u win and this counts in your favour. If u can get her booted out of the country it's a win for all genuine couples


Hi chicken999,
Thank you once again.

I am hoping that all will go well next Tuesday however I am starting to think that the law is not designed to protect the innocent. It seems that the people who do the wrong thing seem to know all the angles to beat the system.


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## DonaldDuck (Apr 19, 2016)

Good luck mate,
I wish really all the best for you .. make sure prepare full custody for the kids & evidence as when immigration cancel her visa she need leave within 28days WITH or WITHOUT the kids, 
Here below the email of DIAC, my experience I did email them 1 time, I didnt get any reply then I re-send the email then I got reply within 2 days. Just depends where is your location when applying your application

NSW : [email protected]
Vic : [email protected]
QLD Tasi CT : [email protected]
WA, SA, NT : [email protected]


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## Astrho1 (Apr 16, 2016)

DonaldDuck said:


> Good luck mate,
> I wish really all the best for you .. make sure prepare full custody for the kids & evidence as when immigration cancel her visa she need leave within 28days WITH or WITHOUT the kids,
> Here below the email of DIAC, my experience I did email them 1 time, I didnt get any reply then I re-send the email then I got reply within 2 days. Just depends where is your location when applying your application


Thank you! I will let you know what happens on Tuesday. The magistrate gave my wife a second chance to respond to my initial affidavit but she has missed that deadline again so I am hoping that it will also go against her.


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## DonaldDuck (Apr 19, 2016)

Read this story as well follow on topic page 1 or 2 on this forum, might be help mate ...just search it on topic "Overstay while pregnant" 

Don't be like that Sweden girl too .. she thinks pregnant make her stay safe & legal in Australia to get free benefit, this is wrong really ...

Don't let her use kids as bite to chase your money ... I feel deeply sorry for you. I hate Indo girl act like this .. make Indonesian have bad name ..


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## DonaldDuck (Apr 19, 2016)

or if you would quick reply .. give them a call, DIAC will hold and reviewing her visa though ...
if you have a bit cash hire lawyer but in my point of view, report to DIAC is enough make sure DIAC officer will reply your email means they received your message. Ta ..


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## Astrho1 (Apr 16, 2016)

DonaldDuck said:


> or if you would quick reply .. give them a call, DIAC will hold and reviewing her visa though ...
> if you have a bit cash hire lawyer but in my point of view, report to DIAC is enough make sure DIAC officer will reply your email means they received your message. Ta ..


Hi, can you please explain the role of DIAC? I forwarded all my information to the Partner Processing Centre and cc'd the Fraud Section. Is DIAC different to them? Thanks


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## CollegeGirl (Nov 10, 2012)

Astrho1 said:


> Hi, can you please explain the role of DIAC? I forwarded all my information to the Partner Processing Centre and cc'd the Fraud Section. Is DIAC different to them? Thanks


DIAC is just the old name for DIBP. It all means Immigration.


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## Astrho1 (Apr 16, 2016)

CollegeGirl said:


> DIAC is just the old name for DIBP. It all means Immigration.


Ok thanks. So I have informed them. I will just have to keep updating them with material that I filed in the Family Court and any decisions made by the Court.


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## Maggie-May24 (Jul 24, 2011)

You've done your bit by reporting her to DIBP and providing your evidence. It's now up to DIBP to decide whether she should be given a PR visa or not. They may decide that despite her actions, it's more appropriate for her to be granted a visa. That's their call.


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## Astrho1 (Apr 16, 2016)

Maggie-May24 said:


> You've done your bit by reporting her to DIBP and providing your evidence. It's now up to DIBP to decide whether she should be given a PR visa or not. They may decide that despite her actions, it's more appropriate for her to be granted a visa. That's their call.


Yes of course. I am just trying to ensure that it is an educated call and not one based purely on a dubious submission from my wife because I am now excluded from being able to respond to any submission from her.


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## Astrho1 (Apr 16, 2016)

We were back in the Family Court today however nothing was resolved. Next court date 1 June. It does appear that this Court does not do anything quickly either. Meanwhile, my wife has a new boyfriend and she spends most nights with him while leaving her two older boys and our son with me.


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## Hassali.abdi (Jul 28, 2014)

Astrho1 said:


> We were back in the Family Court today however nothing was resolved. Next court date 1 June. It does appear that this Court does not do anything quickly either. Meanwhile, my wife has a new boyfriend and she spends most nights with him while leaving her two older boys and our son with me.


Hello Astrho,

It is a testing moment for you. Wish you made to your goal of disclosing your wife's dishonest treating against you and Australia.

Is there update from DIBP in regards to your withdrawal of sponsorship and notification of her false intention to get Australian PR?

Wish you the best in your court fight as well.

Hassan


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## Astrho1 (Apr 16, 2016)

Hassali.abdi said:


> Hello Astrho,
> 
> It is a testing moment for you. Wish you made to your goal of disclosing your wife's dishonest treating against you and Australia.
> 
> ...


Hi Hassan,

Thank you for your best wishes.

My wife stated in Court today that she has responded to Immigration's request for info from her after I had withdrawn my sponsorship however she has not heard from them since.

What was interesting today was that my wife asked the Magistrate if information from the Family Court would be relayed to Immigration as she was worried about the information that was being discussed in Court. Obviously, this information is something she wants to hide from Immigration. While the Magistrate said that she had nothing to worry about as the Court would not be passing on information, unfortunately for her, I have already provided that information to DIBP.

So we just wait to see what they will do with it...


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## Hassali.abdi (Jul 28, 2014)

Astrho1 said:


> Hi Hassan,
> 
> Thank you for your best wishes.
> 
> ...


wonderful!!

Please keep us in the loop about the outcome of both the court and the immigration. I know immigration won't allow you to know about the progress but may be you can get the outcome outside ie from her self.


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## Astrho1 (Apr 16, 2016)

Hassali.abdi said:


> wonderful!!
> 
> Please keep us in the loop about the outcome of both the court and the immigration. I know immigration won't allow you to know about the progress but may be you can get the outcome outside ie from her self.


Hi Hassan,
I will definitely post any updates when I hear them. Thanks again for your support.


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## Astrho1 (Apr 16, 2016)

We were back in Court on Wednesday to have a mediation conference to discuss a property settlement. The law does not care what the intentions were of those that got married and it is simply a marriage in the eyes of the law and a settlement must be made according to the individuals' circumstances. We therefore had to come to an acceptable agreement and I had to offer my wife a reasonably substantial cash settlement. 

The registrar of the court who was the mediator also said that, in his experience, the mother of a child born in Australia would not be deported as it would not be in the best interests of the child. 

I was also informed that unless there were major risk issues for the child, such as a parent's drug or alcohol use, it would be unlikely that a father would be granted sole custody. Therefore, the best result that I could hope for would be a shared care arrangement for our child. 

So, in summary, my wife has gained entry into Australia under false pretences of a genuine relationship and with the intention of ceasing the relationship once she obtained her permanent residency. My wife never had to prove to Immigration that she was in a genuine relationship, all she had to do was have a baby and her residency was assured.


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## fizzytidus (Jun 28, 2016)

I'm terribly sorry to hear it from you Astrho1. Nobody should go through these tortures.

You have already done all you can do. She will have extramarital affair soon after she establishes relationship with her new boyfriend...Fingers cross for him. 

Remember, karma is a bitch, and she certainly will have it one day.


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## Astrho1 (Apr 16, 2016)

fizzytidus said:


> I'm terribly sorry to hear it from you Astrho1. Nobody should go through these tortures.
> 
> You have already done all you can do. She will have extramarital affair soon after she establishes relationship with her new boyfriend...Fingers cross for him.
> 
> Remember, karma is a bitch, and she certainly will have it one day.


Thank you for your sympathy Fizzytidus. It has been extremely difficult time for me since all this has unfolded. I have recently had to take some time off work because of the constant anxiety I was feeling because of it. However, I have started to feel much better since coming to a property settlement agreement with my wife as I was previously worried about being forced to sell my home.

My wife has subsequently moved out of my home just last weekend to a suburb close by. At least we are working together so that our son still has constant contact with both of us. I am now just trying to get my life back to being as close to normal as it can be.

I also think you are correct in your assessment of my wife. I don't think it will be too long before she becomes dissatisfied with her current boyfriend and starts to look elsewhere. I think trouble will find her again soon.


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## Oh8'sjustme (Feb 20, 2014)

Sad to hear such terrible thing you been going through.. I wish you peace and happinness.


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## Astrho1 (Apr 16, 2016)

Oh8'sjustme said:


> Sad to hear such terrible thing you been going through.. I wish you peace and happinness.


Thank you Oh8'sjustme. Your support is much appreciated.


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## Astrho1 (Apr 16, 2016)

Just a quick update. We had an appointment this week with a Family Court appointed Psychologist who is to file a report with the Court with recommendations on which parent should have primary custody of our son. We are back in Court on 11 November to discuss those recommendations. If we do not agree, then the Court will set a hearing date to make a final decision. I have been told that as the Court is so far behind with matters before the Court that a hearing will not be made before the middle of next year.

Meanwhile, Immigration has made no attempt to contact my wife to discuss the issues that I raised with them 9 months ago.


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## Hassali.abdi (Jul 28, 2014)

Thanks Astroho for the constant update. Always wishing for you the victory as you were honest in your initial relatioship with your wife.


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## Astrho1 (Apr 16, 2016)

Hassali.abdi said:


> Thanks Astroho for the constant update. Always wishing for you the victory as you were honest in your initial relatioship with your wife.


Thanks again, Hassali.abdi


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## Astrho1 (Apr 16, 2016)

The Psychologist's Family Report was released to the Court just yesterday and the Clinician had recommended that I should be my son's primary carer (which would mean that my son would be with me for 10 nights out of every 14). This was obviously good news for me. 

The Clinician cited concerns regarding my wife's attachment to our son, her leaving our son with one of her older boys while she went to work and her lack of credibility (ie. lots of lies).

Apparently, my wife informed the Clinician that she is communicating with Immigration and is keeping them informed of the progress in the Family Court. 

We were back in Court today to discuss the recommendations and of course my wife did not agree with them. What that means is that a hearing date was set for 8/9 March next year when all the issues will be discussed to enable the Court to make a final decision. Unfortunately, nothing changes from the current situation where my son is only with me on 5 nights a fortnight.


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## Hassali.abdi (Jul 28, 2014)

Thanks for the brief. And i am happy to hear the good news from the clinician. We are always on your side. Dont loose hope however the case becomes prolonged. I wish you success in the final decision.

Hassan


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## Astrho1 (Apr 16, 2016)

Hassali.abdi said:


> Thanks for the brief. And i am happy to hear the good news from the clinician. We are always on your side. Dont loose hope however the case becomes prolonged. I wish you success in the final decision.
> 
> Hassan


As always, thank you Hassan. At least we finally have a date now when the Court will make a decision. I just hope for my son's sake that they make the right decision.


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## grorr76 (Nov 15, 2016)

Astrho1 said:


> This is an account of my partner's visa application which I now believe to be fraudulent. I am now concerned that someone could be granted the privilege of becoming a permanent resident of Australia despite committing fraud and lying to Immigration authorities both overseas and in Australia. I have a substantial amount of documentary evidence that demonstrates that this person intended to deceive all parties before her arrival in Australia and that the lies and deception were for the sole purpose of attaining permanent Australian residency.
> 
> I believe that if my wife was granted permanent residency it would be an injustice to all those that do the right thing and seek to enter Australia via the proper channels and processes and an insult to those that risk their life on the ocean whilst fleeing genuine persecution and end up in off-shore detention centres.
> 
> ...


I read your story with much interest. I have a brother who met a Jakarta woman online who his family have grave concerns about. If it were possible Id really appreciate asking you some questions as someone who has gone through it. 
She has completely brainwashed him against his family and after only meeting three times she has pressured him into marriage. In our opinon based upon the evidence to get into Australia. He wont be getting any stat decs from his family but has been told he doesnt need one from us for his application. The other bizarre part he has been told he can apply for a PMV 2 months before he gets married. The big sign something is up is how contradictory she is. When asked why not get a 457 come here take it slow see where it goes. She flatly refuses saying she is a religious catholic . But on the other hand when they meet they sleep together. Then when asked about my brother going and working there she pulls out the religon card and tells him Indonesia will only give jobs to managers. She has attacked me for viewing her social media calling me a stalker. She keeps sending my mum presents and has convinced my brother who suffers from ADHD and OCD to stop seeing his phycologist. Its so controlling. No one can get through to him. Oh and she messages him countless times a day and when they are together monitors his phone. What do we do, were at whits end. As someone who has been through a disaster with an Indonesian do you have any ideas.

Since being involved with her , he has become uncommunicative dishonest and my and my mums relationships with him are fractured .


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## ampk (Sep 21, 2013)

He/she can apply for a PMV 2 months before getting married.

Completely stupid/expensive to do such a thing but is allowed! 

One thing is that the system is very slow, so time may resolve the problem.


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## grorr76 (Nov 15, 2016)

ampk said:


> He/she can apply for a PMV 2 months before getting married.
> 
> Completely stupid/expensive to do such a thing but is allowed!
> 
> One thing is that the system is very slow, so time may resolve the problem.


Then what is his process if in june he married?
Oh by the way he was given the PMV advice by a so called lawyer in jakarta
Does it matter the family will not be giving stat decs. As we dont believe the relationship is genuine and will not be lying.
also even if he gets friends they have only met her once?
They dont have anything shared, nothing besides these 2 week get togethers either here or indonesia , 3 times.
Also does he have to show funds to support her for two years? how much does he have to have and what visa does that come under? PMV or partner once married.
Also after being married she wants to live for 2 years in jakarata with him in australia? Is that allowed . Weere being told so many contradictory things


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## ampk (Sep 21, 2013)

PMV you can only get married after visa is granted and you have travelled to Australia. The wait time for PMV will be around 7-12 months (guessing). After grant she travels to Australia (they get married in Australia or overseas within 9 months) then apply Partner visa 820 (before PMV expires) this is a temporary Partner visa for 2 years and is normally issued soon after application.

This 2 year period they must still be in relationship to apply for permanent Partner Visa and waiting times are growing to a guess of 6 months. So start to issue of a Permanent Partner Visa of a PMV application will be getting close to 4 years.

Your family do not need to supply 888's but DIBP may think it is odd and contact one of you.

Do not need any proof of money for any part (except paying fees). PMV & 820 cost around $9,500+/- no agent, airfares or wedding stuff included.

If they get married before a PMV is issued, they need to apply an Offshore (onshore if possible???) Partner Visa - had to get evidence of genuine relationship with what you has said is their history.

Yes living in Jakarta is ok.


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## grorr76 (Nov 15, 2016)

ampk said:


> PMV you can only get married after visa is granted and you have travelled to Australia. The wait time for PMV will be around 7-12 months (guessing). After grant she travels to Australia (they get married in Australia or overseas within 9 months) then apply Partner visa 820 (before PMV expires) this is a temporary Partner visa for 2 years and is normally issued soon after application.
> 
> This 2 year period they must still be in relationship to apply for permanent Partner Visa and waiting times are growing to a guess of 6 months. So start to issue of a Permanent Partner Visa of a PMV application will be getting close to 4 years.
> 
> ...


thanks for the amazing info
just to clarify her living there and him living here isnt frowned upon after marriage?

is there any way for us to put our concerns to the department so they could look into them once they have applied?


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## ampk (Sep 21, 2013)

No problem in one or both living in anther country for some years, after the long process she would get 5 year travel to Australia rights. After that she would need RRV but that is another topic if Citizenship is not taken.

Nothing stopping you contacting DIBP, not sure I would DIBP are not silly and he needs to list all his family on the application form.

P.S some marriage's are not recognised by Australia and then a PMV is possible (not sure in Indonesia). They are generally traditional ones.


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## grorr76 (Nov 15, 2016)

ampk said:


> No problem in one or both living in anther country for some years, after the long process she would get 5 year travel to Australia rights. After that she would need RRV but that is another topic if Citizenship is not taken.
> 
> Nothing stopping you contacting DIBP, not sure I would DIBP are not silly and he needs to list all his family on the application form.
> 
> P.S some marriage's are not recognised by Australia and then a PMV is possible (not sure in Indonesia). They are generally traditional ones.


latest bit of weirdness with this she has shut down all her social media pages so we cant find out whats going on.

The only bit that puzzles me is. her english is awlful so her job prospects arnt good here and my brother cant afford to support her. Dont they check he has enough money or dont they care.


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## ampk (Sep 21, 2013)

With a Partner Visa (820) she is eligible to Adult Migrant English Lessons.

For some reason having enough money or not is not part of the process.

Shutting down on things like family and Social Media is what rings alarm bells unless they are well explained to DIBP.

They rang my fiancé in Ukraine so ask for birth certificates to be sent again in colour (I had sent in B&W) and out of the blue said I had been overseas recently and asked where and when I had gone.

She was weeks or months off on the date, but knew I went only for a few days with one of my kids (the son) and for my fathers funeral. I had recently updated info with DIBP about my fathers death.

DIBP don't just hand out visas - well most the time.

Your brother will need to find some money (more if she is high maintenance) 

$10,000 in Visa related stuff.
Several airfares there and here (to maintain relationship during process time).
Cost of visas as required.
Cost of wedding.
Cost of his "Lawyer".
Cost of living for 2 years overseas?
Cost of her living here?


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## grorr76 (Nov 15, 2016)

ampk said:


> With a Partner Visa (820) she is eligible to Adult Migrant English Lessons.
> 
> For some reason having enough money or not is not part of the process.
> 
> ...


So they check the applicants social media do they. her reason will be that because I was looking nd trying to snap my brother out of this I am a stalker. Yes When she learned I actually had a look at her instagram She through my brother called me a stalker. Since then she has closed her instagram, her twitter , her facebook her linkedin . When I first started doing some research on her there were countless accounts now there is barely anything.


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## ampk (Sep 21, 2013)

Both she and your brother need to convince a Case Office the relationship is genuine and ongoing with answers, statements and documented evidence in the 4 groups below. If not married relevant sections can be plans of the couple. 

1. History of Relationship.
2. Nature of The Household
3. Social Context of the Relationship 
4. Nature of Commitment to each other 

* It will be interesting how they explain history, like introduction to parents and other family (or omit the fact - they will certainly need a good solid discussion about that).
* People getting married are often happy to tell the World or anyone interested, more so on long distance relationships - alone and bored but excited.

If you can talk to your brother, give him 2 bits of advice from me. Do not get her pregnant till after she has Permanent Residence and record all details (pref audio/visual) of any arguments they might have prior to Permanent Residence.


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## grorr76 (Nov 15, 2016)

ampk said:


> Both she and your brother need to convince a Case Office the relationship is genuine and ongoing with answers, statements and documented evidence in the 4 groups below. If not married relevant sections can be plans of the couple.
> 
> 1. History of Relationship.
> 2. Nature of The Household
> ...


are you refering to the pmv there?
he wouldnt record arguments or any such thing. He is besotted by her. He believes she is his soul mate , he believes her over his own family as far as he is concerned there are no alarm bells shes frankly perfect to him. She has completely and utterly got him under her thumb. He couldnt get a woman here because in his words all woman want a career and are cold. So she tells him what he wants to hear. She is a different religon they frankly have nothing in comman but I guess when your desperate to get married and someone anyone offers it your putty in there hands. She has been driving a wedge between us solidy for the past 18 months and what disturbing is they have only met a few times and he wants to give his whole life to her. She has done this before there was another guy from melbourne she lived with for a while and I found pictures of other men. I know this has the potential to get nasty my brother has already said if it fails he will blame my mum and most likely me to. Im prepared to bare that but my mum doesnt deserve it..


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## ampk (Sep 21, 2013)

PMV or Partner Visa applications are basically the same. The PMV requires less in *way of documents* like joint lease agreements and household details.

DIBP will have her history for trips to Australia and how she got the visas and who was behind the application/s.


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## Aussie83 (Oct 15, 2015)

Keep in mind once they do apply you can write to the department that you don't believe it to be genuine, outline your concerns and they will have to address them. Of course that however may end things with your brother but emphasise that's it is you alone doing it and for him to leave your mum out of it.


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

grorr76 said:


> thanks for the amazing info
> just to clarify her living there and him living here isnt frowned upon after marriage?


It will be raise red flags with DIBP if for a considerable amount of time for example if she applies for a 309 gets the 309 makes first entry and then goes back to Indonesia and they don't live together still at eligibility date for PR time DIBP will have big questions.



grorr76 said:


> is there any way for us to put our concerns to the department so they could look into them once they have applied?


You can use the dob in service and email the embassy but nothing will be done as they haven't lodged but you can email them again when they lodge just incase.


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## grorr76 (Nov 15, 2016)

So is it possible because the family won't provide stat decs that the DIBP would contact us to ask why?


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## ampk (Sep 21, 2013)

Yes.

MIGRATION ACT 1958 - SECT 56 
Further information may be sought

(1) *In considering an application for a visa, the Minister may, if he or she wants to, get any information that he or she considers relevant* but, if the Minister gets such information, the Minister must have regard to that information in making the decision whether to grant or refuse the visa.

(2) Without limiting subsection (1), the Minister may invite, orally or in writing, the applicant for a visa to give additional information in a specified way.


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## Aussie83 (Oct 15, 2015)

It is possible but not a given.
A lot of it comes down to how well the application is made.


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## grorr76 (Nov 15, 2016)

Aussie83 said:


> It is possible but not a given.
> A lot of it comes down to how well the application is made.


there doing it themselves so who knows. they are pretty clueless about how it works only applying for a pmv 2 months before getting married.


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## JandE (Jul 17, 2015)

grorr76 said:


> they are pretty clueless about how it works only applying for a pmv 2 months before getting married.


They should not get married until AFTER the PMV is *granted.* That normally takes at least 8 months.


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## grorr76 (Nov 15, 2016)

JandE said:


> They should not get married until AFTER the PMV is *granted.* That normally takes at least 8 months.


what will happen if they do? they insist a lawyer in jakarta told them applying 2 months before was what they needed to do.


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## ampk (Sep 21, 2013)

The PMV application can not be approved, so rejected!

Then a new Partner Visa application will need to be submitted and new fee paid ($7,000) and much greater documented evidence is required.

To add - not just granted but an entry into Australia must also be made (from memory) they can then go offshore and marry within time frame.


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## grorr76 (Nov 15, 2016)

ampk said:


> The PMV application can not be approved, so rejected!
> 
> Then a new Partner Visa application will need to be submitted and new fee paid ($7,000) and much greater documented evidence is required.
> 
> To add - not just granted but an entry into Australia must also be made (from memory) they can then go offshore and marry within time frame.


thanks for that
He is putty in her hands she insists on applying in april marrying in june. He wont liston to us. Only her . I wish I knew what her game is.


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## Arianwen (Jan 8, 2014)

grorr76 said:


> what will happen if they do? they insist a lawyer in jakarta told them applying 2 months before was what they needed to do.


If they apply for a PMV and get married before it is granted, they must notify Immi and request that the PMV 300 application be changed to a partner visa 309 application. This is allowable and is done free of charge, however they then need to provide the full amount of evidence required for the partner visa, which is greater than that required for the PMV, so I don't see how this approach would benefit them.


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## grorr76 (Nov 15, 2016)

Arianwen said:


> If they apply for a PMV and get married before it is granted, they must notify Immi and request that the PMV 300 application be changed to a partner visa 309 application. This is allowable and is done free of charge, however they then need to provide the full amount of evidence required for the partner visa, which is greater than that required for the PMV, so I don't see how this approach would benefit them.





> The PMV application can not be approved, so rejected!
> 
> Then a new Partner Visa application will need to be submitted and new fee paid ($7,000) and much greater documented evidence is required.
> 
> To add - not just granted but an entry into Australia must also be made (from memory) they can then go offshore and marry within time frame.


Read above another poster said exactly the opposite to what you just said. can someone clarify which is correct as I am now quite confused again


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## ampk (Sep 21, 2013)

Arianwen said:


> If they apply for a PMV and get married before it is granted, they must notify Immi and request that the PMV 300 application be changed to a partner visa 309 application. This is allowable and is done free of charge, however they then need to provide the full amount of evidence required for the partner visa, which is greater than that required for the PMV, so I don't see how this approach would benefit them.


I have only heard of a change or 2 like this and never seen anything in DIBP publications.

I assume it may only be possible in few cases like accidently applied for PMV instead of 309 Partner Visa (mistake). A PMV then get married is not a mistake - DIBP would need to be notified in ADVANCE is my bet.

But happy to be wrong if you have DIBP info.

P.S :-I for free of charge would have swapped our PMV for the 820 as soon as my fiancé came on a Visitor Visa.


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## Arianwen (Jan 8, 2014)

https://www.border.gov.au/Trav/Visa-1/300-

>Visa applicants 
> After you have applied

"If you marry before a decision is made on your application, write immediately to the office processing your application. Send them:

* a certified copy of proof that you have married
* a request that, due to your marriage, you want to withdraw the application for a Prospective Marriage visa (subclass 300) and be considered for a Partner visa instead."

Partner Migration - FAQs

17. What if I get married while you are processing my Prospective Marriage (subclass 300) visa?

If you marry your partner before your Prospective Marriage visa is finalised there is a provision for you to be considered for a Partner visa without the need for you to lodge a new application. Please advise your case officer of your change of circumstances and you will be given further information at that time.


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## ampk (Sep 21, 2013)

Thanks factual info Arianwen, 

So a withdraw is required and a consideration requested, to and from your processing office "immediately" 

Wonder how that would work in a offshore to onshore application?


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## grorr76 (Nov 15, 2016)

so june comes and she and him have a PMV application in but not granted. Can she come into australia on another visa to get married here whilst the PMV is still processing?

So I am taking it from the above post if they marry without the PMV they don't pay the 7k twice when they have to get the partner visa.
please give me some good news.

Just to reiterate
he will get no stat decs from us
no one has seen them together more than once
they have no shared interests accounts name on anything , meetings with our family etc

has anyone else got some insight where they might trip so to get rid of this woman once and for all. Its affecting my mum really deeply is there any hope here..


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## Arianwen (Jan 8, 2014)

I can't find the bit about it being free so perhaps the material has changed since I was researching it for our PMV a couple of years ago. It could also have been the visa section at the Berlin embassy who told me and indicated it wasn't a big problem to change from 300 to 820. At that time, a lot of people were getting shocked by the sudden increase in processing times (from 5 month quote to 10-14 month quote), so it was understandable people's plans would change over the lengthy period and that there would be a provision for it. 

Now that the long waiting times have been well and truly established it may not be so easy. The partner migration booklet mentions this: 

The date (or date range) on which the planned marriage ceremony may take place (shown in the letter from the marriage celebrant) should be set far enough in the future to allow for the time it takes to process your visa application. For information on current service standards for Prospective Marriage visa applications, refer to the department’s website. 

This may mean that it wouldn't be well looked upon to plan a wedding two months after application when even the shortest quoted processing time is well beyond that.


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## Arianwen (Jan 8, 2014)

ampk said:


> Thanks factual info Arianwen,
> 
> So a withdraw is required and a consideration requested, to and from your processing office "immediately"
> 
> Wonder how that would work in a offshore to onshore application?


I'm fairly certain you can't ever change from offshore to onshore, so if you already had a PMV pending you could only change it to a 309, not an 820. But someone else can do the searching for solid info; my previous (factual) post lacked accompanying text because I was trying to feed the baby! Only one hand free at best.


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## JandE (Jul 17, 2015)

ampk said:


> I for free of charge would have swapped our PMV for the 820 as soon as my fiancé came on a Visitor Visa.


I asked about this myself but was told that I would have to pay in full again, to switch from PMV to the Partner Visa after marriage. Otherwise we would have married in November 2015, as we had previously told immigration we wanted too.


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## ampk (Sep 21, 2013)

It all depends on how, what and when they say and do things with DIBP.

You brothers hypothetical case is not common, normal people expect a PMV need be applied far more than 2 months in advance.


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## Arianwen (Jan 8, 2014)

I found a couple of threads on this forum about changing from PMV 300 to a 309. The second is much longer and more informative.

http://www.australiaforum.com/visas-immigration/40001-changing-pmv-300-spouse-visa-309-a.html

http://www.australiaforum.com/visas-immigration/120282-change-visa-300-309-a.html


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## ampk (Sep 21, 2013)

Still needs DIBP solid ruling!

PMV's and offshore use to be a bit cheaper.

Now they all the same,

I do know for fact - offshore and onshore Partner Visas have no difference once you get into Australia legally regards to Medicare entilement.

It is all as clear as mud - to often.


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## grorr76 (Nov 15, 2016)

ampk said:


> No problem in one or both living in anther country for some years, after the long process she would get 5 year travel to Australia rights. After that she would need RRV but that is another topic if Citizenship is not taken.
> 
> Nothing stopping you contacting DIBP, not sure I would DIBP are not silly and he needs to list all his family on the application form.
> 
> P.S some marriage's are not recognised by Australia and then a PMV is possible (not sure in Indonesia). They are generally traditional ones.


question so, they apply for the PMV 2 months out from wedding.
Get married without the visa then go the Provisional partner visa.
Can she still get the partner visa having never lived together and her living the first 2 years of there marriage in different countries, never having a shared household?


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## ampk (Sep 21, 2013)

Possible, but would need good explanation to Case Officer.


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## grorr76 (Nov 15, 2016)

ampk said:


> Possible, but would need good explanation to Case Officer.


well she claims its to earn more money.. We found out she is starting a new job around the time of the marriage. Hardly the sign of someone planning to marry and live together in australia.


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## Astrho1 (Apr 16, 2016)

Hassali.abdi said:


> Thanks for the brief. And i am happy to hear the good news from the clinician. We are always on your side. Dont loose hope however the case becomes prolonged. I wish you success in the final decision.
> 
> Hassan


It has now been over a year since I informed Immigration of my concerns with my wife's visa application. As far as I know DIBP are just awaiting the outcome of our custody application for our little boy in the Family Court before the DIBP make any decision in regards to my wife's permanent visa application. Fortunately, there is now less than 2 months to go before our hearing in the Family Court where I am hoping I will get a ruling in my favour.


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## Astrho1 (Apr 16, 2016)

It is now just exactly two weeks to the start of the Final Hearing in the Family Court to determine custody arrangements for my son. I found out yesterday that my wife has subpoenaed the files of Immigration so that the information that they have can be taken into consideration at the hearing. This should be interesting!


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## summersky (Feb 12, 2017)

Astrho1 said:


> It is now just exactly two weeks to the start of the Final Hearing in the Family Court to determine custody arrangements for my son. I found out yesterday that my wife has subpoenaed the files of Immigration so that the information that they have can be taken into consideration at the hearing. This should be interesting!


How cunning! Please keep us updated if you don't mind  good luck!!


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

Astrho1 said:


> It is now just exactly two weeks to the start of the Final Hearing in the Family Court to determine custody arrangements for my son. I found out yesterday that my wife has subpoenaed the files of Immigration so that the information that they have can be taken into consideration at the hearing. This should be interesting!


Sounds like she did a freedom of information request.

Good-luck


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## Astrho1 (Apr 16, 2016)

summersky said:


> How cunning! Please keep us updated if you don't mind  good luck!!


Hi Summersky. Thank you. I will definitely post updates.

I have given Immigration quite a bit of information in relation to the facts in this case. It will be interesting to see how Immigration have responded to that info.


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## Astrho1 (Apr 16, 2016)

Mish said:


> Sounds like she did a freedom of information request.
> 
> Good-luck


Thanks Mish


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

I know I probably sound harsh but ..... I wish immigration would change their policy in regards to children of the relationship and PR. Especially in cases like these where they have a child to get PR.


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## summersky (Feb 12, 2017)

Dopost deleted.


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## Astrho1 (Apr 16, 2016)

Unfortunately the hearing yesterday did not get underway. All the discussion centred around an assessment by a Paediatrician of my son because I was concerned with his delayed speech. Although there was no diagnosis, the Court wanted more information as it was thought that it may impact on either my or my wife's parenting capacity. 

I was quizzed by my Barrister before the proceedings why I informed Immigration of the circumstances of our separation. Apparently, my wife's legal team are suggesting that I did not give any thought to the "best interests of the child" if she were to be deported. I said that it is a requirement that we inform Immigration immediately of any change in circumstances which I did. What Immigration does with that information is entirely beyond my control. My Barrister said, "good answer".

Unfortunately this issue continues with the next Court date set for 1 May 2017.


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## Mish (Jan 13, 2013)

I agree ... good answer.

There is a thread by ampk about DV claim too maybe you can offer him some support as you are going through the same thing minus the child of the relationship.


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## Astrho1 (Apr 16, 2016)

Mish said:


> I agree ... good answer.
> 
> There is a thread by ampk about DV claim too maybe you can offer him some support as you are going through the same thing minus the child of the relationship.


Thanks. Will do.


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## Astrho1 (Apr 16, 2016)

My wife and I spent all of yesterday afternoon negotiating before going into Court and we finally came to an agreement for the care of our son ie. entirely equal - 7 days on, 7 days off while we both will see him in the week that he is in the other parent's care. We could have dragged it out to see who would be awarded primary custody, but with no certainty of knowing what might happen in a Court hearing, I was happy to agree. I am certainly glad I do not have to attend Court again and I can get on with my life looking after my son. The only issue still unresolved is my wife's Permanent Residency however it would seem that she will get that in due course.


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## ampk (Sep 21, 2013)

We both have our own kids - none together.

Some of our problem was that the mother of my kids came to our house to see and/or collect the kids. (This was anytime but just needed to be planned in advance) My new wife hated this and seemed to want me to drop the kids at the front gate or something (400 meters away).

I personally think if the parents of a child can get along in the best interest of the kid/s to sort out fair access as you have done, that is the most important.

Well done for the 2 of you sorting a hard issue fairly.

p.s. yes she needs PR for the child sake.


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## Astrho1 (Apr 16, 2016)

ampk said:


> We both have our own kids - none together.
> 
> Some of our problem was that the mother of my kids came to our house to see and/or collect the kids. (This was anytime but just needed to be planned in advance) My new wife hated this and seemed to want me to drop the kids at the front gate or something (400 meters away).
> 
> ...


Hi Ampk, yes I agree that parents need to get along in the best interests of the child. My wife and I do get along and we communicate without any animosity.

All I wanted was to have equal time with my son and I would have agreed to the arrangement 12 months ago if my wife wasn't so determined to get primary custody. It is unfortunate that we had to go through a stressful Court process to get to where we are now.

However, all that is behind me now and I am looking to the future with optimism. Despite my wife's somewhat devious actions in obtaining residency in Australia, I believe that my son needs her to be in his life as well.


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## Astrho1 (Apr 16, 2016)

So, as expected, my wife informed me yesterday that she has received formal notification of her visa allowing her to remain in Australia permanently. She was very excited when she called me and thanked me for all that I had done for her. In the end I was glad that she acknowledged that she would not have been able to achieve her goal without me. I just thought it interesting that after our separation, she did not have to provide anything to Immigration other than an updated Police Certificate. As previously mentioned, our son had guaranteed her stay in Australia. 

I am certainly not a person who holds a grudge and we now communicate with each other with no animosity. Although it was a lesson learned the hard way, I at least now have a beautiful boy as a result of the relationship.


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